Where are our priorities?

[SidneyCarton]

If the Big 3 fail in the coming weeks there will be 3 million unemployed Americans, and what remains of our manufacturing infrastructure will be gutted.

California, and several other states are on the verge of bankruptcy as they try to cope with massive budget shortfalls, and will probably have to severely cut education and social welfare programs in order to make up what they have lost.

Oh yeah, and there are still two wars, going on, in which American soldiers continue to die, along with considerably more bystanders on the ground. We are facing the ruin of our nation. And yet the topic which has dominated this forum for the past day is the fool who will give the invocation at Obama's Inauguration. In all seriousness, should our economy collapse, millions have no job, no home and no where to go, with no social safety net left to take care of them do you honestly think they will remember that Rick Warren gave the invocation on January 20th? Do any of you honestly believe that a majority of Americans, are really concerned about this when they are seriously considering how they will be able to stay warm when sheltering under a freeway overpass in a few weeks?

The appointment of Mr. Warren to give the invocation at the inauguration is indeed a slap in the face for many LGBT DUers as well as well as their numerous straight allies. But it is a mere droplet of misery in the ocean of ruin which we will soon be treading water in if nothing is done. Look around you and realize that our house is burning down. All these arguments will be academic if we have nothing but ruins to fight over.

[happychatter]

1. Error: You've already recommended that thread. n/t

[thewiseguy]

2. The big 3 wont fail. They will get help tomorrow.

Obama could simply admit his mistake and this would be over.

GLBT has priorities of its own.

[mondo joe]

3. What do national priorities have to do with what DU is talking about?

Did you think our talking about it here will effect change?

[leftstreet]

4. Obama is already stuffing his Cabinet with centrists and righties

And people have been beaten up here for trying to object.

Maybe Warren was a more emotionally charged straw that climbed on the camel's back?

:shrug:

[Solon]

5. I notice the fact that millions of GLBT Californians having their civil rights stripped...

2 months ago isn't even on your radar. Very illuminating, I think.

[SidneyCarton]

9. Do you have something to say to me Solon?

Then spit it out.

[Solon]

12. I'm just pointing out that this issue is also important. n/t

[SidneyCarton]

18. It is indeed, and I should not have omitted it from my list of ills.

However, if I listed everything that was wrong in this country, I'd be typing all night, and the post would be so long that no one would read it. The question of Proposition 8 is in the hands of the California Supreme Court, the same court which struck down Proposition 22. Those suing for the repeal of Proposition 8 have decent grounds for their appeal, and they have a good chance of success. Either way, that particular issue is out of our hands for the moment.

[davidpdx]

10. And Obama is to blame for that

I love guilt trips.

[Solon]

13. I didn't say that. n/t

[davidpdx]

15. Yep, it is implied

by you and others.

[Solon]

16. Actually, in this thread, I implied something else entirely. n/t

[elshiva]

57. US STUPID QUEERS BETTER GET OVER IT!!!!

:sarcasm: :grr:

[SidneyCarton]

60. I said this where?

[elshiva]

63. SidneyCarton, I was responding to Solon's comment.

Those are not your exact words, but you do imply that GLBT rights is NOT a priority in the OP. As a bisexual, I am a little ticked off by that kind of thinking. Okay?

[Marrah_G]

69. That is what you imply in your op

That everything else is more important, Now is not the time, yadda yada.

It's the same thing said EVERY time GBLT civil rights comes up.

You might not realize it, but your words are very hurtful toward a good sized portion of DU.

[SidneyCarton]

71. Enough.

You of all people should understand the negative connotations of the term "witch hunt." But as this board seems to need someone to burn in order to slake its thirst for blood (of the cyber variety) alert on me.

I am obviously a bigot. I follow a sect that is unacceptable to the board, I have not shown the resolute outrage at the "five minute hate" and I do not want the entire world to change in this instant, regardless of the cost.

Yep, I must be a freeper, call the admins, and get the granite cookie ready, I haven't had breakfast yet and am getting hungry.

[NWHarkness]

6. It is not an either/or situation

People can be concerned about more than one issue at a time. Even Gays!

[SidneyCarton]

11. The forum listings for GD and GDP suggest otherwise

[davidpdx]

7. If you listen to people on DU

clearly calling for Obama's head IS the top priority. And if you support him you are an apologist. As I said in another thread, things aren't going to matter much if our economy goes in the toilet and we land in another Great Depression. Sad times indeed.

[mindwalker_i]

32. But it's real hard to whip up sufficient outrage

at DU about the automakers. It just doesn't have the punch, the pizazz, the mojo to be a Big DU Issue. Now the Rick Warren issue, that's got promise! One get get good and righteously pissed off about this one! And DU without outrage is like Bush without Cheney, like protons without electrons, Beavis without Butthead. It would lack that special something.

[SidneyCarton]

33. An astute observation, my friend. The death of America just isn't sexy enough...

Folks should watch more "Mad Max" films, they might change their minds.

[mindwalker_i]

53. The whole gya marriage issue started as a wedge issue

Bush used in to say, essentially, "Yeah, I know, the war isn't going well, people are dying, a lot, I punk'd you all about 9-11, but LOOK OVER THERE, GAYS ARE GOING TO KILL OUR WAY OF LIFE (TM)!" I thought the amount of energy and outrage was stupid then, and it's stupid now. It's a friggen prayer for chrissakes! It probably shouldn't be in a government function anyway but removing it would cause more trouble than it's worth.

I voted against prop 8. I do believe it's wrong to deny rights to any group. Warren is probably a bad choice. But the amount of energy being poured into this "issue" that has no long lasting impact is stupid! Getting bent out of shape about this issue is a stupid as straight people getting bent out of shape at gays in the first place, but it's an issue that people can easily get all worked up over.

[SidneyCarton]

55. It would seem that it continues to be a rather effective wedge issue

Continuing to cause trouble long after the first offender has no further use of it.

[lostnotforgotten]

38. So Supporting Bigotry, Discrimination, And Racism Is Your Priority?

eom

[IndianaJones]

8. civil rights must always go straight to the bottom of every list. nt.

[SidneyCarton]

14. Civil Rights cannot be eaten and will not provide shelter from the cold.

That they are necessary I will not deny, but if people are denied the necessities for basic survival, you will see them willingly turnover whatever rights and liberties they have to the first person who offers them food and shelter. It happened in Germany in 1933, it can happen here too.

[IndianaJones]

19. I got shelter from the cold....and civil rights? you? nt.

[SidneyCarton]

22. I'm a California State Employee, for the moment yes, how long...

Well your guess is as good as mine, but the State will be broke by March, and my landlord will probably not accept fiscal armageddon as a valid excuse for not paying my rent.

[IndianaJones]

23. I got both. Why should I care less about civil rights for gays? nt.

[SidneyCarton]

25. Good for you.

[IndianaJones]

26. your whining isn't winning me over to your cause. nt.

[SidneyCarton]

28. So what if anything would win you over?

[IndianaJones]

30. reaching out to the rich who could care less about the issues you may face.

spend the next 50 years trying to convince them they are wrong.

you know...build bridges and such.

[Danger Mouse]

34. you demand compassion but lack compassion for others?

[IndianaJones]

37. I got no one reaching out to me. nt.

[Danger Mouse]

39. Good point.

[mondo joe]

35. With attitudes like yours there'd have been no civil rights movement at all.

Every civil rights effort was hard won, and meant sacrifice and hardship.

[SidneyCarton]

40. And did not sacrifice economic justice for social justice.

Johnson's Great Society helped, by attempting to help everyone get ahead and have opportunity. Without a hand to the unwashed masses twisting in the wind, this is merely rank hypocrisy.

[mondo joe]

43. Civil rights IS social justice.

It's not a luxury.

[SidneyCarton]

46. I take it then that you think that a job, food on the table and shelter are?

See, I can use strawmen too.

[mondo joe]

48. Are... what?

[SidneyCarton]

54. Wait, when you say "social justice" do you mean "economic justice"

If so, then I apologize, a question of semantics I suppose.

[mondo joe]

56. When I said social justice I meant social justice - which includes civil rights and more.

It also means access to housing, healthcare, education, food and more.

[SidneyCarton]

59. Fair enough, then I cannot disagree with you.

I have no problem with full equality for Gays, including marriage rights, so long as meaningful efforts are made towards looking toward the working class as well.

[mondo joe]

61. Why do you talk about gays and the working class as if they're two different things?

What class do you think gays occupy?

[SidneyCarton]

68. Gays occupy all classes.

My responses are dictated by the responses I have recieved elsewhere on this board where it seems to be assumed that there is only one group in this nation that faces oppression and difficulty, and the rest of us are sitting pretty.

[Marrah_G]

70. And yet equal rights will not cost anyone a dime. ....

[Starry Messenger]

17. All of those economic verities are things I feel I can do nothing about.

I feel my best energy is spent at the moment supporting gay Democratic brothers and sisters who feel marginalized this week on DU.

[SidneyCarton]

21. I understand the way you feel and thank you for your explanation of your feelings.

n/t

[AllentownJake]

20. Symbolism matters, and if LGBT people are open to being slapped in the face

I guess it isn't long till organized labor gets a smack or maybe us who don't like torture.

[SidneyCarton]

24. Symbolism is subjective.

It means about as much as you decide it does. If you decide that it means nothing, then it does. If you decide that this is the defining moment of the Obama Presidency, then nothing else he does will mean a thing.

[AllentownJake]

27. I'm less fired up than I was 3 days ago

Can't help that. All I'm saying it isn't going to be the evangelicals that are manning the phones and organizing when its time to fucking get a bill passed.

[SidneyCarton]

29. Sorry to hear that.

If this was all it took to take the wind out of your sails, then you truly did waste your time during the primaries and the GE.

[AllentownJake]

65. It wasn't Barack that did this it was other Obama supporters

who seem to think that dissent on any issue is being a traitor and than attack personally.

I'm still going to fight for my issues but my eyes have been opened to several people on here and I no longer respect them...and that doesn't apply to the person who I responded to.

[SidneyCarton]

67. I am sorry about that.

Fanaticism seems to be a wide plaza, with routes running in all directions.

Dissent is not treason, wild raging outrage, which regards any and all disagreement as bigotry and reduces the entire world to "us" and "them" is also not treason, it is madness. I do not accuse you of such madness, but I have seen it all over the board in the past days, and my post was written with such madness in mind.

[JeffR]

31. Wrong is wrong.

Righting wrongs has to be prioritized somehow, of course.

But this is still wrong, and knowing that doesn't make me lose sight of anything else.

I know where my priorities are, thanks. Every one of them circles back to my yearning for social justice for everyone everywhere. That's what being a Leftist means to me.

[lostnotforgotten]

36. One Guesses That Bigotry, Discrimination, And Racism Are None Of Your Concerns

eom

[SidneyCarton]

41. Congratulations! You are the 500th person to use that dead-end line on me today!

Welcome to ignore.

[mondo joe]

42. Do the thousands of gay teens who kill themselves, or end up on the streets

fit into your priorities?

[SidneyCarton]

45. Yes.

How will denying Mr. Warren the podium at the inauguration stop this?

[mondo joe]

47. Mr Warren is part of what leads them there. It's the environment he creates

and feeds.

Think of what it meant to racial minorities across the country to see that a black man was elected President - and how powerful and transforming it was.

And now think of all the gay kids whose message is that this asshole who compares them to child molesters is invited for a special honor, and think how crushing that is.

Gay kids don't end up so often homeless or dead by their own hands because they're gay, but because of the homophobia they live with.

[SidneyCarton]

Will this single act end Homophobia in the United States?

[mondo joe]

50. No, but it will perpetuate it and feed it.

[SidneyCarton]

58. How much more than it would already be perpetuated?

After all, so long as Mr. Robertson, Mr. Phelps and Mr. Hagee as well as Mr. Warren are free to spew forth pseudo-religious crap, and Mr. Limbaugh, Mr. Savage, Mr. Hannity and Mr. O'Reilly have freedom of the airwaves Homophobia will be perpetuated.

[mondo joe]

62. Any amount is too much, but having the seal of approval of the President - and the President

who claims to be a "fierce advocate" for gays - makes it worse.

[lostnotforgotten]

44. I Proudly Go To A Bigots Ignore List!

eom

[mondo joe]

49. You wonder why he or she has heard the same thing 500 times.

Might be because it's true.

[lostnotforgotten]

52. In Our Modern World We Have Enough Problems And One Of Them Should Not Be Bigotry

eom

[Bravehammer]

51. As Obama says- “I can do more than one thing at a time”

[hay rick]

64. droplet of misery in an ocean of ruin

Nice phrase and my sentiments exactly. I will ignore Mr. Warren's 2 minutes of blather on January 20th. If the Big 3 go belly up - now that's a serious uh oh...

[mwb970]

66. Could we start a special Anti-Obama Forum here at DU?

All anti-Obama threads would then be in one place and I could ignore them all at once. As it is, the headlines in GDP read like a rightwing board minus the birth certificate. Next we'll be calling Obama Zero or The One. I am so sad that DU is turning into this mess. Without bush to unify us, we have obviously turned on each other, and it ain't pretty.

This is no longer a fun board to read in the morning. I'm thrilled that bush will be gone, but I am very sorry to see DU go so bad so fast.

[HamdenRice]

72. Great idea! Now we need to come up with a name: "Ideological Purist Forum"

or:

"Political Naifs Forum"
"Crybaby Whiner Forum"
"Democratic Circular Firing Squad Forum"
"Seekers on a Unique Path of Politically Never Get Anything Done Forum"

[Sebastian Doyle]

73. How about the "DLC cowards still ridiculously claiming to be Democrats...

...while opposing everything even remotely Democratic" forum?

That one's been needed for a long time. Give the Al From Basement Trolls their own basement forum, and keep them away from discussions about how to fix the damage that they and their Repuke pals have done over the last 28 years, which they obviously have no interest in doing.

[HamdenRice]

75. As much as I dislike the DLC, at least they're not actively campaigning against the party

and they're not trashing our Democratic administration before it has even been sworn in or done anything, unlike some DUers who have put up anti-party web sites. The DLC is bad, but they're not that bad.

Go figure.

[DevonRex]

74. I am, too. And they want money from us.

:eyes: