The Audacity of Hope, the SuperCliff Notes Version

[Clio the Leo]

One of the fundamental points in Barack's second book is the following (in case you haven't seen it 4,000 times by now in my sig line) .....

"What's troubling is the gap between the magnitude of our challenges and the smallness of our politics - the ease with which we are distracted by the petty and trivial, our chronic avoidance of tough decisions, our seeming inability to build a working consensus to tackle any big problem." - Barack Obama

Rick Warren spending two whole minutes at the Inauguration is a prime example of this theory. Barack recognizes that partisanship never gets anything done. It is only when ALL sides ... EVEN THE ONES WHO ARE STUPID AND WITH WHOM YOU DO NOT AGREE .... deserve a seat at the table because, hey, they helped baked the American pie too, even the yucky parts.

Nothing Barack has done since his election has shocked me. He pretty much laid out what he would do and is sticking to the plan.

So here's my serious question....

Those who are upset, were you simply not aware of this being his philosophy? Did you really think he was gonna swoop in and convert America into a liberal, progressive Utopia?

Or have you changed your mind and now disagree with him?

The sentiment of that quote is one of the reasons I voted for him. So I'm confused.

Two minutes worth of prayer. It's an olive branch ..... it's not a Cabinet appointment.

[mwei924]

1. I'm not sure how many people read "The Audacity of Hope" here..

..otherwise they would've known that he has no affection for rigid ideology.

[Clio the Leo]

2. Yep. He has a rigid affection for getting things done....

... and has made clear, time and time again, he'll work with whomever he thinks can help him do that.

[704wipes]

42. So have closest minister walk down the street and do the prayer

There has to be a church close to the inauguration site. Or several. Have one of those ministers walk down to get it done. How much are we paying to fly in this hater to do it? That is what will piss me off.

One of those ministers close by would probably be glad to do it. Sign him up.

[Clio the Leo]

55. And none of those ministers are as prominent as Warren is...

.... what's the point of a symbolic gesture if no one knows it's a gesture? lol

[LSK]

63. ok, so how does having a bigot there get anything done???

:shrug:

[mwei924]

105. When a good 30% of Americans think Rick Warren is their spiritual idol..

..there aren't that many other options other than working with them. We ignore stupid fringe groups because they have like 4 members and can't do anything.. But the evangelical community is BIG in this country, and likely was a big factor in giving George Bush two terms. Every state defeated gay marriage this election-- those votes came from somewhere.

[FrenchieCat]

7. I am rereading it.....now that Obama's been made President.

I note this passage.....on page 116

I've never been entirely comfortable with the term "special interests," which lumps together ExxonMobil and Bricklayers, the pharmaceutical lobby and the parents of special-ed kids. Most political scientists would probably disagree with me, but to my mind, there's a difference between a corporate lobby whose clout is based on money alone, and a group of like-minded individuals--whether they be textile workers, gun aficionados, veterans, or family farmers--coming together to promote their interests; between those who use their economic power to magnify their political influence far beyond what their numbers might justify, and those who are simply seeking to pool their votes to sway their representatives. The former subvert the very idea of democracy. The latter are its essence.

Still, the impact of interest groups on candidates for office is not always pretty. To maintain an active membership, keep the donations coming in, and be heard above the din, the groups that have an impact on politics aren't fashioned to promote the public interest. They aren't searching for the most thoughtful, well-qualified, or broad-minded candidate to support. Instead, they are focused on a narrow set of concerns--their pensions, their crop supports, their cause. Simply put, they have an ax to grind. And they want you, the elected official, to help them grind it.

[Clio the Leo]

35. and who says cats that who were berets aren't smart? ;-)

Preach on Sister Frenchie!.

[prostock69]

112. I've read it and have quoted from it as well. I think most people

haven't read it. Here are some quotes I took out of the book that I think apply to the reaction he is getting from the Democrats/Liberals on this board as well as on others:

"There's the religious absolutism of the Christian right, a movement that gained traction on the undeniably difficult issue of abortion, but which soon flowered into something much broader; a movement that insists not only the Christianity is America's dominant faith, but that particular, fundamentalist brand of that faith should drive public policy, overriding any alternative source of understanding, whether the writings of liberal theologians, the findings of the National Academy of Sciences, or the words of Thomas Jefferson."

"I know very few elected Democrats who neatly fit the liberal caricature; the last I checked, John Kerry believes in maintaining the superiority of the U.S. Miliary, Hillary Clinton believes in the virtues of capitalism, and just about every member of the Congressional Black Caucus believes Jesus Christ died for his or her sins. Instead, we Democrats are just, well confused. There are those who still champion the old-time religion, defending every New Deal and Great Society program from Republican encroachment, achieving ratings of 100 percent from the liberal interest groups. But these efforts seem exhaused, a constant game of defense, bereft of the energy and new ideas needed to address the changing circumstances of globalization or a stubbornly isolated inner city. Others pursue a more 'centrist' approach, figuring that so long as they split the difference with the conservative leadership, they must be acting reasonably--and failing to notice that with each passing year they are giving up more and more ground. Individually, Democratic legislators and canidates propose a host of sensible if incremental ideas, on energy and education, health care and homeland security, hoping that it all adds up to something resembling a governing philosopy."

"Mainly, though, the Democratic Party has become the party of reaction. In reaction to a war that is ill conceived, we appear suspicious of all military action. In reaction to those who proclaim the market can cure all ills, we resist efforts to use market principles to tackle pressing problems. In reaction to religious overreach, we equate tolerance with secularism, and forefeit the moral language that would help infuse our policies with a larger meaning. We lose elections and hope for the courts to foil Republican plans. We lose the courts and wait for a White House scandal." And that is exactly what the Democratic party has done on every pick Obama has made. REACTED, whether it's negatively or positively. However, I've seen WAY MORE NEGATIVE than POSITIVE on this board and others.

If you haven't read his book, please do so. Everything he has done so far hasn't been a surprise to me. He is going to govern from the center, as much as possible. And you all should know that his mother exposed him to a vast range of religions as a young age (Hinduism, Budism, Muslim, Christianity, etc.) I truly do not believe Obama is a Christian. I think he realized early on if you want to be elected in THIS country you need to appear be a Christian. And I'm not the only one who believes this as well. There are people who are keeping track of how often Obama has been to church since he won the election--like they are trying to catch him in a lie about being a Christian. It's all ridiculous. I think he is attracted to Rick Warren BECAUSE they have different views, not because he they share some of the same views. I think that worry is that Obama will be manipluated by the Christian right but you aren't giving Obama enough credit. It'll be the Christian right who will be manipulated by Obama. :)

[firedupdem]

3. Very Nice Post! n/t

[crappyjazz]

4. I can't speak for all GLBT

but for myself, I had no delusions that Obama would further our rights ... I did suffer the delusion that he wasn't going to slap us in the face however like 99.9% of politicians looking for a vote.

"the ease with which we are distracted by the petty and trivial" - I suppose a two minute prayer by a bigot would be seen as trivial by some, and is obviously seen as trivial by Obama.

Discrimination is like pregnancy. You can't be a little pregnant, and you can't be a little discriminated against.

[Fearless]

79. What about hysterical pregnancy.

I'm sorry... it was there...

:rofl:

[crappyjazz]

120. tee hee

:P

[TheWraith]

102. So in other words, if you feel slighted by anything at all, the person responsible is a bigot.

You really need to follow your conclusion through to the logical end. That "I say it's so, and therefore it is" mentality is what the religious right uses to claim that not being able to mandate their beliefs is discrimination.

[crappyjazz]

119. You can take your "in other words" and say whatever you want

but I didn't say anything about being or feeling "slighted"

good try though

[lapfog_1]

5. You so don't get it, do you?

Obama can invite Rick Warren to the first Presidential Prayer breakfast, no problem.

But it's another thing to shove this bigot in the face of Obama's supporters, on what should have been a day of celebration for all of us that worked and contributed to make THIS DAY possible.

[Clio the Leo]

9. Yeah .... there's some "not getting" here but it's not me....

... hee hee.

You realize that Inauguration Day is not a big victory celebration for the team that wins right? And I dont care WHAT past administrations may have done ..... "if past administrations had jumped off a bridge" and all that. :)

Inauguration Day is when the American People .... hold on to your chair .... come together and swear in a new leader. Weird, I know, but it's true. I mean, the Yankees get a victory parade, why shouldn't we?

And, unfortunately, the American People include folks we neither like or agree with.

Romans 12:20 is one of my favorite verses of scripture ... and it's one of those wise sayings we can all live with, regardless of our faith or lack there of....

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head."

What it's basicaly saying is "if you do good to your enemies, it will piss them off even more" and if your enemy is angry ..... well, that makes it harder for him to lay out a good game plan to come back and destroy you with. ;)

[lapfog_1]

20. Yeah, there are going to be SO MANY repukes at the parties

and balls... why Sarah Palin will be in the parade. Because it's a celebration for ALL Americans. :sarcasm:

It's one thing to be kind to your enemies.

It's quite another to haul them up to the podium and let them spew their bile for the world.

[Clio the Leo]

36. PALIN IS GONNA BE AT THE PARADE!!!!

OH SNAPADOODLE!!! I DID NOT KNOW THAT!!!

Ok now *I* am mad!!!!!! lol

[yowzayowzayowza]

68. Thatz crap.

"...haul them up to the podium and let them spew their bile for the world."

You have absolutely no reason to believe Obama is gunna let him go off an a rant in his prayer.

Heyzeus on a pogo stick. Get a grip already.

[lapfog_1]

72. The simple fact that this BIGOT is talking on the podium...

even if he is saying the sky is blue...

is hate speech to me. His face will be on millions (possibly a billion) of TeeVee sets. A platform given to him by President Obama.

Sorry you seem to feel otherwise.

[Fearless]

76. To be sure there are no bigots...

Just bigoted statements. Bigot isn't a color that one has to wear or a letter pinned to one's lapel. I'll direct your attention back to the quote from the original poster.

[lapfog_1]

77. Sure enough there pardner.

There are no bigots.

Right.

OK, I think that makes us done here.

[Fearless]

78. That kind of attitude simply leads to more division...

People who make said comments are not going to go away if we put our fingers in our ears. They won't disappear because we simply believe they're wrong. We need to make them want to change their minds. Be the change. A hundred good deeds may turn them, but one bad egg will justify their present beliefs.

[lapfog_1]

81. We don't have to hold them up as examples of American values, either.

Like I said, we are done here. You won't change your mind, and I'm not going to change mine.

Read all of my posts on this subject. There were many other ways to go about what you suggest. This is a sharp stick to the eye for just a whole lot of Obama supporters.

[Fearless]

83. Fewer than you clearly think.

No sane politician would hari kari before even being sworn in. I have to give his intelligence more credit than that.


Have a nice evening.

NTF

[lapfog_1]

96. More than YOU clearly think.

Because it's not just gays. And even if it was, there are a *lot* of gays. And they donate money at a much higher rate than us straights to political campaigns. They HAVE to, if you think about it.

[Fearless]

103. That would be "you" straights, for the record.

"We" don't "have" to donate to political campaigns at any higher rate. Some may choose to. Some may feel compelled to. But I doubt that it is at any a higher rate than any other minority group and probably less than some. For instance, Black people and the Obama campaign. Certainly a Black person may feel more compelled to donate than a gay person. Perhaps not. Perhaps they are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I know they're not.

Good night.

NTF

[yowzayowzayowza]

82. Mighty broad brush ya got there. By that same token...

Obama himself izza bigot as he does not support gay marriage, but you keep right on painting yerself into that perfectly self righteous corner. I'm sure thatz gunna put you in an excellent position to further your cause. :eyes:

[Zhade]

85. Not supporting our equal right to marry IS bigotry.

You do support that right, right? If not, get the fuck off DU.

[yowzayowzayowza]

97. Would it be alright *if* I were for gay marriage...

civilly but in my personal fantasy faith life found it morally repugnant ... and said so? I'm all for gay marriage, but know lotza folks who fall into that category who aren't gunna be persuaded by shouts of BIGOT at every turn. How much longer are you willing to wait for your rights due to alienating such folkz?

[Fearless]

104. Well said!

:kick:

[lapfog_1]

89. You sure make a lot of assumptions.

And it's really disappointing how many people here are simply NOT upset at all that a fundie right wing evangelical preacher will be "doing" the inauguration.

One would almost think that this isn't DU anymore.

[yowzayowzayowza]

99. Assumptions, prey tell?

I'm not not upset, jus not as upset as you. Sorry if thatz too grey fer ya.

[Captain Hilts]

31. The whole "change" campaign was so that we could celebrate bigotry on inauguration day?

[Clio the Leo]

38. Um, no, the whole "change" campaign was to get Bush out of office....

... DUR!

[lapfog_1]

47. So we could replace him with what, just anyone?

That's not why I contributed so much of my money to Obama.

Bush would be gone even if McCain had won (despite the campaign tactic that a vote for McCain was a vote for Bush... that was simply never true and a bit of campaign hyperbole).

I wasn't voting to get rid of Bush. I was voting FOR something... someone.

And I would still vote the same way... but I might not have sent as much money as I did.

[Clio the Leo]

57. So then what's your answer to my question.....

Did you read the book? And if so, did you change your mind or did you disagree with him and vote for him anyway?

(please dont take this as some kind of rhetorical challenge, I really want to know)

[lapfog_1]

69. Look, I didn't go in with blinders on.

Very few people even here at DU did. Nobody here thought he was Russ Feingold or Dennis Kucinich. Or at least, I hope they didn't think that.

That's why when he left Gates at SecDef, I didn't say ANYTHING about it. Not one post, either negative or positive.

And he has made some other appointments (to his economic team) that I would rather had been different.

I know he is pragmatic more than anything else.

But what is the purpose of pissing off a significant portion (10%... 20%... maybe more) of his OWN base?

It's not like this gesture is going to win over Rick Warren's supporters.

So why do it? Even if Obama is personally against gay marriage, why stir this pot... and poke the rest of us in the eye with this. Even if it's only for 2 minutes, as you say. It's still the symbolic gesture that hurts. Hurts us (and by us, I mean a lot more than the GLBT community).

[BR_Parkway]

113. Then he should have invited Dr Rev Thomas Robb to give the invocation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=100204&mesg_id=100204

[musette_sf]

61. agreed

and sick and tired of all the apologists

[EFerrari]

6. I don't support my president reaching out to anti-Semitic, misogynistic, homophobic assholes.

Is that clear enough?

I don't want to see Barack Obama giving this man a stage.

I didn't vote for hatred, exclusion and discrimination.

[Clio the Leo]

12. Well, then may I suggest you turn off your TV .....

.... for the next 8 years because see it you will.

And when Barack wins an even larger section of the right wing base than he won last time ... well, I'll be the one winking at you.


Like this ----> ;) ..... all Palin style but WAY smarter.

[EFerrari]

19. Bullshit. It will not happen. Barack is not suicidal.

[Clio the Leo]

41. The sheer fact of the matter is....

.... there are more right wingers out there than gays and lesbians. So the voting numbers just wont balance out.

As much as I would LOVE to find a way to keep the Freepers from breeding, I'm afraid with their mismatched genitals and general fear of birth control that they cant be stopped.

[EFerrari]

45. And the sheer fact of the matter is, the gay community has our support.

So, unless you're polling people over 55, you're wrong.

[lapfog_1]

54. There sure is a lot of assumptions and flat out ignorance right there.

Starting with the assumption that BECAUSE there are a lot of right wing fundies out there, Obama needs to cater to them. And since we JUST HAD AN ELECTION where Obama won in a landslide... what evidence do you have that the right wing fundie base delivered for him? That they are the new "swing" voters?

Because Obama did SO freakin well in places like Alabama and Georgia.

:sarcasm:

[Clio the Leo]

59. Yeah, if ONLY he had won IN, NC and VA, and FL. NT

[lapfog_1]

64. He got out HIS base, not a bunch of fundie nutjobs.

I have a secret for you... we outnumber the bastards. Always have.

Apathy kills us. Actions like this invocation thing tend to make us, well, more apathetic.

[girl gone mad]

101. Well said.

Boomers have long accused younger generations of being "slackers". They wonder why we're so apathetic.

Well, this kind of appeasement, don't make waves, go along with the institutionalized ineptitude and discrimination politics is exactly why. If our leaders have no principles and no real convictions, why should we be a part of their system?

[Zhade]

86. So fuck the GLBT because we're a minority?

Nice. Some liberal you are.

[lapfog_1]

29. When you have completely co-opted the values of your enemy

so that you can lead them, too... what does that say about you?

Do we WANT to win more of the right wing base? Why would we want that, pray tell?

Is it all about winning, after all? Or should some principle be at stake?

[Clio the Leo]

43. It says that you can get stuff done.

And I hate to break it to you, but right or left, that's all he really cares about.

Larry the Cable guy really deserves to give some kind of speech on Inauguration day if we wont to be honest about it.

[lapfog_1]

56. And Rick Warren helps Obama "get stuff done" how, exactly? - n/t

[Clio the Leo]

65. Right wing fundie whack job family sits around the dinner table....

"Did you know Pastor Warren said a prayer at the Inauguration today?"

"He did? He participated in the baby killers big day?"

"hmmmmm"

"yes .... hmmmm indeed."

(wheels begin to turn)

As the very least, it makes the right wing start to question their figure head ...... which, guess what, is already happening! lol

Ok, now my turn .... what would shutting the fundies OUT of what is their day too accomplish?

[lapfog_1]

70. What would be much better is for Rick Warren to preach

that maybe Obama isn't the anti-christ after all. And isn't a secret Muslim. And might even be, gasp, a natural born patriotic American.

And THAT could have been effected by inviting Rick Warren to give a benediction at the first Prayer Breakfast.
(It's a long shot that Rick would start preaching that way... and it's an even longer shot that the fundies would listen).

Anyway, giving the invocation at the inauguration will NOT register with the fundies. And it will register (and already has) with the rest of us.

Miscalculation.

[Zhade]

87. It legimizes his bigotry. How can you not understand this?

Are we just fucking pawns to you?

[girl gone mad]

98. You're nuts if you think fundies are ging to be swayed to vote for Obama.

How delusional can you get?

Lol.

I wonder if this what the campaign is thinking.

If so, bwahahahahahahaha, they're going to be in for a surprise.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clio the Leo]

15. oh no! Not the BIRD FINGER!!!!

ANYTHING BUT THAT I BEG YOU!!!!!

The concerns of gay and lesbians are not trivial ..... spending THIS much time and energy over two minutes worth of prayer is.

Dont MAKE me post the Steven Chu picture again! :-p

[lapfog_1]

30. Again, it's not the time involved.

Great acts of injustice (and justice) can be performed in a short amount of time.

It's a slap in the face of all who stand against Rick Warren and his ilk.

But I guess you are of the opinion that this is simply NBD.

[AllentownJake]

10. Is this place populated by a bunch of people with Borderline Personality Disorder or something?

Why can't I generally support the President be happy I volunteered for him and be pissed off that he reached out to a guy who pissed all over my friends by inviting a guy to speak who was heavily involved in trying to stop their civil rights.

[Clio the Leo]

16. Didn't say you couldn't be pissed......

.... I'm just confused as to why you are surprised (if you are.)

[AllentownJake]

32. Rick Warren, yeah I'm a little fucking surprised

Other than his positive media treatment because he sells books and magazines and people will tune into see him interviewd (He'll act normal than.)

The guy has gone on the record with some pretty nasty beliefs about gays, women, science, and economics. I would think that Obama would not want to piss on the people who supported him espicially on the Prop 8 issue and the recentness of his heavy involvement of working to deny a group that voted for him over 70%.

It doesn't make sense from any standpoint. He'll gain no ground with the Evangelicals because he supports abortion and he'll alienate a significant population amongst his base.

There could be a second move like immediately repealing don't ask don't tell and using this as cover however, I don't think so. From working on the campaign someone or himself had it in his mind he could reach Evangelicals....other than the young...it didn't work. Abortion, Abortion, Abortion and if Obama switches tracks on that or gay rights...I'm honestly done with him because that isn't a trivial issue to me.

[Clio the Leo]

46. But it wasn't ONLY the left who supported him......

.... otherwise he wouldn't have won.

LOTS of pro-life folks who voted for him. Trust me. ;)

(I understand your point but I think his aim is to whittle more of that base away)

[AllentownJake]

48. Anti-Choice people that voted for Obama

Have Abortion as about 3-4 down their list on critical issues.

Rick Warren talks to people who have it as 1 or 2.

[lapfog_1]

60. To what end? To win a bigger margin 4 years from now?

And you are smokin some good shit if you think having Rick Warren deliver one invocation at the inauguration will "whittle away" some of that "base".

[Clio the Leo]

66. The journey of a thousand steps .......... NT

[Zhade]

88. And you're willing to let them fuck us over to earn their votes?

NT!

[firedupdem]

17. You can and you have been...It's only when someone tries

to offer a different viewpoint that things go crazy. I haven't found one thread yet where it seems that this issue can be intelligently discussed. There are some rude asshole comments that need to be dealt with but I don't find this one rude or nasty. Seems as if she's just giving her viewpoint on the subject.

[Clio the Leo]

22. thanks kid ;-) NT

[AllentownJake]

37. There really isn't that much of a different view point on Warren

I mean we are talking about an individual that gave George W. Bush a Peace Prize....recently.

[lapfog_1]

73. It was a P.E.A.C.E. prize

and the acronym means something really scary, imho.

[grantcart]

117. is that a rhetorical question

maybe we should have a poll

[Maven]

11. So - racists deserve a seat at the table too then. Right?

I mean, not to include white supremacists would be petty and trivial, wouldn't it?

[Clio the Leo]

21. How man white supremacists are there in the voting population...

... and how many right wing fundies are in the voting population?

There is your answer.

[EFerrari]

23. It's the same group. And Obama is not an idiot. He has to know that.

[firedupdem]

34. You are right in that racists and this guy preach "hate"...however,

racists in my book (since I'm black) of the kkk type make me think of Jim Crow laws, Separate Water fountains, Separate schools, transportation etc. Are you talking about people that support that type of "hate"....or this nut with his bible preaching Homosexuality is wrong and marriage is out but not for total separation in schools, busses etc. and openly calling for hanging gay people.

There are both kinds out there but this guy with his bible preaching his bullshit isn't the same as a klan member in my book..so I don't think that connection should be made.

I don't like him being there either but I think writing change.gov, the audience turning their back when he speaks or some kind of display is better than allowing it to ruin the day.

[EFerrari]

51. You might want to look into this. There are crazy people who hold these views

separately. But, the extremists that this man appeals to hold them both. That's why Sarah Palin was so attractive to them. She was a bigot's buffet.

I haven't read this man's work but it wouldn't surprise me in the least -- he's appealing to the Palin crowd of white supremacists who also hate Jews, gays and women. He's not only spoken against gays.

Imho, we don't let him or anyone like him spoil anything. But, at the same time, we need to stand up against him and all he represents.

[firedupdem]

58. I agree. I don't like this guy. I think he's a snake. I sent a note

to change.gov letting them know how I felt about this guy being there and I would love to see everybody turn their back when he prays. But he'll be gone after his prayer and we still have work to do. Fundies will not spoil the day.

[Clio the Leo]

49. It's NOT the same group.......

...... I'm surrounded by right wing Bible thumpers and while many are prejudiced .... but they aren't White Supremacists.

There are only an estimated 50,000 people in America who identify themselves as White Supremacists. There are, sadly WAY more right wing conservatives than that.

[EFerrari]

53. Oh, please. See "Sarah Palin".

[lapfog_1]

93. Wow, how LUCKY I am to live with spitting distance of at least 5

racists and white supremacists. That's like .000001 percent of all the known racists. And they all live within 100 yards of ME. I must be some sort of white supremacist magnet!

Who knew?

Or maybe, just maybe, that number is off by an order of magnitude or so.

There might be only 50,000 that the FBI is tracking... but there are a *lot* more than 50,000.

[Maven]

25. Oh, there are quite a few racists in the voting population.

Don't they deserve to be represented as part of the pie?

[FrenchieCat]

33. They are being represented......

Some even voted for Obama.

Remember....the "we're voting for the Nigger" story?

[firedupdem]

40. They are there in full force...everyday all day....believe it. n/t

[lapfog_1]

39. What does that have to do with anything?

The real question is "how many right wing fundies does Obama need to win re-election?" (and the corollary... "how many GLBT and liberals will he lose by being cozy with whack jobs like Rick Warren?")

All he needs is enough to win... his margin this time was pretty comfortable, wasn't it?

Or do you think it was close? Close enough he has to do a lot of reaching out to bigots (aka the new middle apparently).

[Clio the Leo]

52. Or how about "how many GLBTs will remember or care in 2012....

that Rick Warren said a prayer on Inauguration day? And of that number, how many will be SO mad that they'll vote for the Palin/Lieberman ticket?"

Seriously. Aint gonna happen.

[Maven]

62. Many of us may not vote, or donate, at all.

[Zhade]

91. I'll fucking remember.

And he will not get my vote again if he goes through with this. I do not support people who slap me in the face for doing so.

[lapfog_1]

95. And it's ALL about the next election for you, isn't it?

Principles, hah! who needs them. Right?

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Warren Stupidity]

71. So if there were enough racists or anti-semites

then they too should be invited to the party to celebrate their diversity of opinion? What is the threshold that constitutes 'enough' where we should obsequiously tolerate intolerance?












WTF- I am simply aghast at the defense of the indefensible here. Obama has jabbed a finger in the eye of his GLBT supporters, and of all of us who support their demand to be treated as full human beings. WTF WTF WTF?

[mwei924]

106. Not long ago that was the case...

...and what President didn't have to compromise and work with racist Southern senators? You could argue that half the senate was totally and openly racist before the late 60s. Did they all get shunned?

[Warren Stupidity]

110. and that was a good thing?

Not long ago african americans were chattel. Not long ago, women were less than full human beings. The 'not long ago' argument is just another bbanal excuse for the acceptance of the unacceptable.

[mwei924]

116. Banishing them would've done nothing.

Their numbers and supporters were large enough.. Without Southern senators there wouldn't have been a New Deal.

[Zhade]

90. If there were a lot of white supremacists, you'd advocate including them for political expediency?

I see. You have no principles. I understand now.

[rockymountaindem]

13. The problem when you make this post is that you set yourself up as the judge of petty and trivial

To a lot of us, the things that Warren stands for are not petty and trivial.

[Clio the Leo]

26. See reply #15 ....

... only ignore the part about the bird finger. :)

[ProSense]

14. "the ease with which we are distracted by the petty and trivial"

Are you seriously trying to qualify people's outrage over Warren as "petty and trivial"?

[Clio the Leo]

27. See reply #15 ...

.... only ignore the part about the bird finger. :)

[boppers]

18. We had a monumental election.

Two big outcomes, a president, and a state voting to legally discriminate against its citizens.

Two architects.

Sharing one stage, one celebration.

[Muttocracy]

28. thumbs up. nt

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[4_Legs_Good]

44. Well said n/t

[Odin2005]

50. Kicked and Recommended.

Politics is not a profession for the lily-white ideological purists. It often requires making your enemies think you are their friend and manipulating the hell out of them.

[Zhade]

92. Thanks for not caring about the feelings of us GLBT folk.

Warms my heart to see how much you care.

:sarcasm:

[Odin2005]

114. Having trouble going beyond black-and white thinking, I see.

:eyes:

[musette_sf]

67. the only place an olive branch belongs in the case of Warren

is up his ass. that POS wouldn't know what to do with an olive branch proffered to him. this is so wrong. i pray for Barack to DO THE RIGHT THING and get this bigot dis-invited. blame it on Hoyer and Boner, i don't care, just delete him from OUR inauguration.

[rhett o rick]

75. Well said. nm

[rhett o rick]

74. I am not asking him to "convert American into a liberal, progressive Utopia?"

And I think that is an insulting thing to ask. Allowing Mr. Warren to speak is way more than an olive branch, it is an endorsement. Or at least that's how many Americans will see it. Why does he find the need to offer "an olive branch"? These wacko's won't give one iota, they won't stop being homophobic. And while he is offering the olive branch to Mr. Warren and his army of wacko's, he is slapping the faces of many of his ardent supporters. And don't give me the Archie Bunker lines like: "you shouldn't be offended", line, or "what's the big deal".

[Beacool]

80. OK, since we are now into reaching out to everybody..........

Then he should really stretch that reach and invite the KKK, Arian Nation, every pundit on FOX and let's not forget Rush Limbaugh too.

:eyes:

[Zhade]

84. Reaching out to bigots isn't trivial. It's a slap in our face.

But that's okay. I'm fucking done with politics. I will not be complicit in my own abuse any longer.

[faithfulcitizen]

94. Sometimes DU is unbearable, like tonight apparently. Intolerance cuts both ways.

[TheWraith]

100. Thank you thank you thank you for having some PERSPECTIVE. Kicked and recommended!

And marked, so that I can kick it AGAIN tomorrow. And again.

[happychatter]

107. 3 days before the general election every four years

and now five minutes before the inauguration.... in the middle of cabinet selection and facing a GLOBAL MELTDOWN that has millions starving and getting killed... more to come... when Obama needs to build consensus to get ANYTHING done...

there it is

two minutes... some crackpot preacher that writes books to make other bigots feel all jesussy about themselves...

and it's world war three... I've read posts recommending defection... they're going republican or green or independent or what fucking ever

I like the criticism frankly... all of it... I read it and I care about it

but FIVE HUNDRED FUCKING THREADS later... well

I question their motives

I think it's a fraud

I've been hanging out here the whole election season and from how long some of these folks have been on DU...

this poor house has been infested from it's foundation

You can't even agree with them right

if you were a body and not a screen name and text... they'd rip your intestines out and devour them while you watch

Peace n Love... best of luck with this shit

I'd add that "I'm crazy about ya, Clio," but me liking you... would be one more thing for them to want your head on a platter about.

[mwei924]

108. Progressives have more in common with the Bush crowd than we think.

It's all about ignoring the other side and pretending they're just some tiny fringe minority. Well, Bush obviously miscalculated on that one. Relying on his base didn't bring him any popularity because it turns out, "the base" for both sides really isn't that big. A lot of people are really in the middle. And unfortunately, plenty of those middle folks are religious and feel like sometimes they're being ostracized by the Democrats.

Also, I didn't care for some of things Bill Clinton compromised on either, but his admin. gave us good times so he could screw all the interns in the White House if he wanted and I wouldn't care. If Obama can bring the economy around, I honestly don't give a shit who he invites to his inaugurals, state of the unions, birthday parties, whatever.

[WeDidIt]

109. Basic Human Rights for all are neither petty nor trivial n/t

[Romulox]

111. Does "everyone" include representatives of common, working people, instead of 100% DLC Corprocrats?

[TexasObserver]

115. You might want to re read the book.

Selling out wasn't part of his strategy. Getting along was, but he never suggested he would get in bed with a hate filled bigot on his first night as president.

Your "two minutes" approach is silly. If your spouse has sex with someone else for "just two minutes," does that make it less a breach of fidelity?

[azmouse]

118. Clio, you're beautiful!

Nice post. Sorry you've gotten attacked this way. :hug: