Gays and lesbians voted overwhelmingly for Obama

[ruggerson]

probably more than any other identifiable group, excepting African Americans.

So why is it always our fault when we get angry that a politician does something stupid and incredibly offensive?

People have brains. Most of us know that President Obama will appoint Supreme Court Justices far more favorable to the gay community than a Republican would.

Most of us know that Obama's entire administration will be far, far better, hopefully, for gay folks than if McCain had won.

But that doesn't mean we can't be furious about giving an important, symbolic stage to a renowned bigot.

Why does our anger provoke so much backlash with some of you?

You would think you would have our backs on this one.

[democrattotheend]

1. Is there polling on the gay vote?

I did not see anything about gays in the exit polls, but I read somewhere that gays were one of the only groups where Obama did worse than Kerry. Do you know what that's based on? Was there a separate poll done of gay voters?

[dsc]

7. We voted 70 to 27 for Obama

and Kerry was within the MOE of that but he was like 1 or 2 points better.

[Uzybone]

13. Do you have a link?

not that I don't trust the number but Id like to know where it comes from.

[IndianaJones]

27. Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International. nt.

[dsc]

31. Go to www.cnn.com or www.nytimes.com

and look at 2008 exit polls.

[democrattotheend]

37. You're right, it is in there

Somehow I missed it when I went through the first time. The gay vote was 70-27, pretty impressive. Not quite as good as Jews...sorry, but can't resist bragging that despite all the hype about Jews not trusting Obama we voted for him 78-21.

[Uzybone]

41. Yeah I just saw it on CNN.com

I appreciate it.

[Uzybone]

8. I heard that too; that gays voted more for McCain than they did Bush

Ive been looking for polling on that to find out. I remember asking and no-one was able to give a definite answer.

[LeftCoast]

2. I'm sure it has nothing to do with us being gay

Because nobody's a homophobe on DU.

:rofl:

[racaulk]

3. I will NOT let you ruin this for the rest of us.

We're having fun here. Get over it.

:sarcasm:




(K&R)

[GarbagemanLB]

4. People have a right to be angry. I simply think many of you are overreacting.

He isn't Obama's spiritual advisor. He isn't a policy advisor. Obama hasn't changed his position on any policy issues regarding gay issues.

People are making this into some huge 'symbol', as if it will set back the gay agenda for decades.

Guess who is giving the fucking benediction? A preacher who supports gay marriage.

The guy ran on a platform of crossing the aisle and respecting other people's views. You knew that when he was running, you knew that when you voted for him, and now some here are acting like they have never heard of this side of him before.

[ruggerson]

9. he could have made an important positive statement

by having someone like Peter Gomes give the invocation. Harvard Chaplain, proud gay African American man.

Why not make a statement that would open people's eyes in a positive fashion instead of lending moral authority to a world class bigot?

[QC]

16. That would require political and moral courage. n/t

[EFerrari]

12. And I think some of you are justifying bullshit much too easily

and not very well. How do you respect bigotry, exactly, as an alternative viewpoint? You realize, you're defending that, right?

Maybe you should be emailing the Obama team and be telling them that putting hateful bigoted nutcases on our national stage is a gaffe even though we fully expect them to do that.

You should be prepared to do that. You knew who he was when he was running.

[GarbagemanLB]

20. I did know who I was voting for. That is why I am not surprised by this decision of his. Not at all.

It looks like some here threw their own imagination of who he was onto him, like a blank slate, and are now realizing their vision was flawed.

[EFerrari]

21. That's just plain old justification.

This is wrong now.

[tblue]

34. I knew it, too. He will disappoint a lot but he'll do some good.

And, given where we've been and where we're at, that's good on balance. I expect Obama to make me tear my hair out on a regular basis.

[KitchenWitch]

32. Warren led his church (Thousands of members) to vote against civil rights for GLBTs

I do not think ANYONE who is deeply disappointed by Obama choosing him to give the invocation is overreacting. Warren is a right wing bigot.

Warren is anti civil rights for gays.

Warren is anti reproductive rights.

Warren is anti women's rights.

Warren is anti science.

This is not merely a matter of throwing the Talibangelicals a bone. He symbolizes bigotry against GLBTs and women. We as Democrats should NOT stand for it.

[Creideiki]

40. Actually, he has changed his position on gay policy issues

DADT went from a definite to a "look at it".

DOMA went from full repeal to "well, maybe--don't know."

I don't have faith that we'll be looking at less hostile Supreme Court Justices. Sorry, no faith. I still have a hope, a prayer, even, but not faith, not certitude. Looks like the inner-skeeved at homos Obama is coming out again.

Oh, well, I'm only 40. Maybe before I die, we'll be able to retake the Democratic Party and start supporting progressives.

[EFerrari]

5. This is just surreal.

I'm sorry.

[ruggerson]

15. ...

:hug:

[RandomKoolzip]

6. I apologize on behalf of my straight brethren and sistren.

Some of us only see strategy, game theory and the stagecraft of politics, and thus are blind to the fact that the rights and lives of real humans are endangered here.

PS: Rick Warren can go piss up an obelisk.

[yardwork]

39. No need to apologize. You are an ally and we all know it.

Some people are idiots, but the majority of DUers are wonderful.

[liberalmuse]

10. He lost me at 'Rick Warren'.

Who woulda thought? I am so sick of the devastating disappointments. No more! I think I will have to go with the younger generation (my daughter and nephew) who actually celebrated in the streets for Obama even though they were very skeptical of him. I would say now that they had good reason. This is a betrayal I don't know if I'll ever overcome. I understand those who will be disgusted with my post, but I was like you--before today. Disgusted by people criticizing Obama's cabinet picks. But today, I cannot pretend to support this shit. Choosing Warren to give the invocation is the ultimate betrayal to all the progressives who fought to get Obama elected. I'm in tears. (call me a drama queen, you'd be correct.) This hurts. I don't know if I give a shit anymore. I think this may have been the day where I've lost all faith in any politician. They are a bunch of fucking phonies. If you have my heart, and break it, god help you.

[Liberal Veteran]

11. I think it's a matter of proportionate disapproval.

I'm not sure this is the kind of thing that requires someone having our back.

There is a difference between disapproval and total meltdown.

Is this what you want to draw a line in the sand over?

[EFerrari]

17. I think inviting a known homophobe misogynist nut case to bless you

in front of your base during a national ceremony about hits any reasonable limit. What about you?

[Liberal Veteran]

29. Dear heart, things like DOMA and DADT and Prop 8 are worth drawing lines in the sand over...

....not some thing that in three weeks, none of us will ever think about.

I don't know about you, but up until today, I've given ZERO thought to who gave the invocation at the former presidential swearing in.

And that's probably true for a good many of us, if not most people.

[EFerrari]

30. I love you, LV, but have to disagree that we should let this go.

When people like this so called man are put on a national stage, are promoted, we need to push back.

[Starry Messenger]

14. I'm shocked by what I've seen happen here this afternoon.

Yeah...pretty much speechless.

[Upton]

18. I'm not gay but this choice is outrageous

equally outrageous are the attempts to defend the Warren choice by the Obama can do wrong crowd.

[cali]

19. actually Jews voted in a higher percentage for Obama than Gay folks.

other than that, I think people have every right to be angry at this move. I also think some of the anger is over the top. Sorry, I don't think it's accurate or fair to call Obama a bigot or to say that he's homophobic.

[AllentownJake]

26. Well I hope he has Hagee pray too, got to give all the bigots equal time and he's a three for

[QC]

28. Let's not forget the Rev. Creflo Dollar.

He can share the Prosperity Gospel with the assembled crowds!

[immoderate]

22. I'm not gay, but I'm mad as hell!

I have expressed my disappointment to the Obama site. I feel betrayed. This is not what I knocked on doors for. I held judgment for appointments so far, but this seems as much a slap in the face as Fred Phelps or David Duke.

--IMM

[EFerrari]

24. Maybe we can be honorary gays for now, IMM.

:loveya:

[immoderate]

47. I'd be happy to.

Actually, there are probably plenty of folks who wonder about me anyway. I've never been married, and spent a lot of time in dance companies. I usually don't declare myself anything. Let 'em wonder.

But with lots of gay friends and family, I'm in solidarity. And I usually find myself in tune with you as well. :hi:

--IMM

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllentownJake]

25. The crazy thing is Warren's recent political activity has been anti-gay however

most of his activity in the past has been anti-women, anti-science, and anti-economical issues we care about.

However, this is just the gays acting up :sarcasm:

[whirlygigspin]

36. maybe I'll go so I can throw my shoe at Warren

What a stupid fucking choice

[stillcool]

33. Anger doesn't provoke me...

but action thrills me!! Since Obama responded because of push back against this man's appearance at the inauguration...might some more push back be in order? How will they hear us if we don't speak?

Go here to email members of the Congressional Inauguration Committee....
http://inaugural.senate.gov/cmte/

Go hear to send a message at Change.gov
http://change.gov/page/s/yourstory

[TK421]

35. Excuse me....we are marching and you stepped out of line...

the rifle on your shoulder slipped a bit the last step you took...HEY, SOLDIER!!!!1212 DROP AND GIVE ME TWENTY!!!!@!

[jody]

38. Link below to CNN exit poll re question.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p3

[Uzybone]

42. Thanks. I just saw it

70-27. On page 3 of the national exit poll.

[jody]

43. Over 125 million voters so there are perhaps 5 million GLB with inalienable/unalienable rights that

IMO government is obligated to protect against the tyranny of a simple majority.

For example,

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
QUOTE
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.
UNQUOTE

IMO same-sex marriage should be classified as "pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy" and prop 8 is unconstitutional.

[qwlauren35]

44. The African-American Community has beefs too.

Some expected an all-black cabinet! So far, we got the UN rep and the Attorney General. But that's it. Oh... and the president.

Why don't *I* have your back? I can't speak for anyone else. Sometimes, I'm just not sympathetic to unconstructive outrage and ranting about something that doesn't affect me directly. I applaud every single person who has written to the Inaugural Committee, or gone to change.gov. That makes sense to me. Launching a petition would make sense to me. But otherwise, I guess I just don't tend to champion all of the battles on the field. I pick and choose. My energy is too limited.

I would add that I especially HATE when people tell ME that *I* should be angry over THEIR issue. I think that's disrespectful. It should be my choice, not an obligation.

For example, I would not expect someone who: lost their job, is being evicted because the landlord didn't pay the mortgage, and can't afford treatment for a child with diabetes... to be outraged about Proposition 8. And I think it's unreasonable to ask that of anyone who is struggling with true BASICS: food, clothing, shelter... life itself.

On the other hand, I think I should be more respectful of the rage, disgust, etc. Everyone gets angry at one thing or another, and what is a message board for, if not to vent.

[ruggerson]

45. Well I'm sure both of us can multi-task

Being angry over something doesn't mean you overlook everything else that's equally important.

I would hope that a recently unemployed person with a diabetic child WOULD be outraged over Prop 8, as it affects us all. Just as I would hope that an independently wealthy white, gay person would be infuriated with the abuses this economy has heaped on the working man and empathize with what African Americans have to still deal with in a society that has not exterminated racism.

If people can't have our back on this, the least they could do is let us be pissed off without blaming us. It doesn't really speak well to their basic humanity.

[qwlauren35]

49. That's just it. Does it affect me?

It's a viable argument, but it's not clear whether it does or not. The voting public has overturned a Supreme Court ruling. I absolutely do not believe that this is a first. Nor a last.

Moreover, the voting public has overturned a Supreme Court ruling that favored one particular group of people. (Sort of like overturning Affirmative Action. Hmmm..... who had OUR backs on that one???) Clearly, not the first or last time.

Am I *next* to have my rights eroded? Um... let's discuss the Patriot Act? Way before Proposition 8.

I understand that you are not just disappointed, but appalled at not only the lack of sympathy, but more importantly, the "Shut up and Get OVER IT" attitudes. However, I think it's a snowball. Someone expressed outrage. Someone else said, I'm not. Someone else said, WELL YOU *SHOULD* BE UPSET - IT'S A BIG DEAL. And someone else said WELL, YOU SHOULDN'T BE - IT'S NOT IMPORTANT. And that's what starts the madness. When we move away from expressing opinions and try to tell others how they should think and feel.

This is when it becomes obvious that DU is not a monolith, and there are no opinions on ANYTHING are shared by everyone here. Well, except disgust for George W. Bush. And actually, that's 70% of the American public.

I'm here because I hated Bush, campaigned my ass off for Kerry, and needed a place to vent. I hold very strong pro-abortion views, but I'm realizing that they aren't necessarily based on "civil liberties". I still think of myself as a feminist, but frankly, feminism isn't the hot issue here in DU. Can one be a moderate feminist? I guess so. Because I fail the litmus test on being progressive as soon as I decide to sit out the same-sex marriage issue, simply by accepting the fact that most Americans are against it. Inaction is action.

Maybe I don't belong. I'm trying to ease my way out actually. It's time for me to focus on feminism. But I did want to say, I don't think you really want sympathy. I think you want empathy. It's a more real, genuine offering. It's not something you can fake.

So I will say that I have known similar outrage and pain. I've been turned on by people I trusted. Sometimes, I've had someone I had supported and was counting on to do "the right thing" side with "my enemy". It hurts.

I can empathize with what you are feeling.

[ruggerson]

54. Sure it affects you

as we are all one community of people. What impedes you from achieving your potential affects all of us.

Frankly, I want neither your sympathy or empathy. I just want your eyes wide open. I don't want you to be blind to what is happening.

What would black folks have done if there weren't white kids from the north stupid and brave enough to travel down to Mississippi and shed their blood in the name of equality? Did the travails of the poor, black family in the South affect privileged white twenty year olds in the North? Using your lens, we'd have to say no. Using mine, we'd have to say a resounding yes. Of course they did.

You may have a gay kid someday. You may get involved with a man on the down low, because his culture tells him he must never follow his true and authentic instincts and identity.

You may not. It doesn't matter. What matters is that you see clearly what is happening and do not begrudge us or oppose our anger. It is, after all, the fire that will carry us over the finish line.

[HamdenRice]

56. You've missed a number of points

"What would black folks have done if there weren't white kids from the north stupid and brave enough to travel down to Mississippi and shed their blood in the name of equality?"

Quite nicely, I assume. This is one part of the overall appalling ignorance about the civil rights struggle that is pervasive on DU. The overwhelming, overwhelming "work" of the civil rights movement was done by African Americans, not "white kinds from the north" although those white kids added some symbolic value to the struggle. Btw, very, very few white people (other than Schwerner and Goodman and a few "freedom riders") "shed their blood" for racial equality. And it's mildly offensive that so many people seem to get this history wrong.

The other point you are missing is that within the last few years, state after state has voted to take away affirmative action, and I don't recall any massive GLBT protests about that. While it would be nice if coalitions were firmer, some of the overheated rhetoric about what African Americans "should" be doing sounds pretty silly from the view on this side of the fence.

[Toasterlad]

46. "My energy is too limited."

And yet you seem to have plenty of time to post about what a waste our outrage is. I guess it takes less energy to piss all over people than to fight for them.

[qwlauren35]

52. That is SO TRUE!!!!

You probably miss the irony of what you just said.

"Pissing" is the most normal, automatic part of the human existence. It takes energy to NOT piss all over the place! However, fighting for someone else is not inherent in most species. It takes either a tangible tie of kinship and community or tremendous self-determination and empathy.

Therefore, hoping that someone will champion someone else's cause is understandable... but not realistic.

[LeftyMom]

48. The checks have cleared, the campaign is over, time to be quiet until we need your money again.

:grr:

[qwlauren35]

50. Gee... I think we African-Americans have heard this for several years now!

Only, they say "votes" instead of "money".

However, we're understandably tired of it. I see that we're no longer alone. The Democratic Party has a history of ignoring its minority constituents except when campaigning. Welcome to the club.

[Bluebear]

51. We got rickrolld.

[zulchzulu]

53. How about pro gay rights Reverend Lowery ending the Inaugural ceremony?

Does that count or should that choice be ignored or covered up?

[rvablue]

55. So did Catholics. n/t