Everyone is bitching about Rick Warren but he has to share the day with Lesbian and Gay Band Assoc.

[wndycty]

I bet you they RUIN HIS DAY a lot more than he ruins theirs.

Obama is building a BIG FUCKING TENT. I'm not a fan of fundies being there, but I'm a fan of the outreach. I view this as a glass half full situation, not half empty.

Gay folks don't have a problem with straight folks, but the fundies have a problem with gay folks. So I look at the inclusion of the Lesbian and Gay Band Association and maybe other LGBT performers as Obama saying to the fundies "you are welcome to be a part of this celebration but you will be joined by my gay brothers and sisters."

[GarbagemanLB]

1. Didn't you know? Saying a prayer is now the same as setting policy. I am VERY concerned.

[genna]

70. Are you serious? One religious person - Warren - saying for another religious person - Obama

sets public policy?


I thought the right was crazy for going after Rev. Wright because Wright isn't Obama.

I thought the left was one snack short of a full lunch for going after the witch hunter African pastor with Palin because one fundamentalist preacher does mean that Palin is going to round up all American Wiccans.


Maybe both religious leaders can raise everyone's eyebrows because their religious practice is not the same worship experience every other Christian uses, but the congregant is not the leader.


What correlation do you see in having Warren in the midst? Is he going to make Obama pro-life by being in Obama's presence?


Obama's religious and community organizing background was obvious throughout the election. He thought it was a good idea to attend that forum at Saddleback Church. Evidently, Obama wants to reach as wide a group of Americans as he can.

[Coexist]

72. great post.

[yardwork]

76. How could anyone be upset about this? I don't get it.

Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

Rick Warren: Oh I do.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/16/7415

Who could disagree? And his views on abortion - so steadfast! Not even the life of the mother is to interfere with saving that little fetus's life, because the fetus is more important than the woman, don't you know?

And it's so comforting to know that children will be taught that the earth is only 6,000 years old and any scientific comments to the contrary are ungodly.

Rick Warren is the ideal choice to symbolize Obama's connection to God. Don't you agree? Who wouldn't?

[tblue]

2. "Lesbian and Gay Band Ass"????? LOL!!!!!!

[wndycty]

5. I had to abrievate it for space . . .

. . .I know it looks bad, I will try to change.

[tblue]

9. Dang it! I liked it that way. Really.

[T Wolf]

3. Then, why doesn't he have a KKK member up there to show just how fucking big the tent is?

There is right and wrong, at least, on some issues.

How about if Obama pulls half the troops out of Iraq? That would be great, wouldn't it?

[GarbagemanLB]

4. Does the KKK speak to a third of this country?

[BR_Parkway]

51. Neither does Rick Warren - Most of the surveys show a scant 24%

of the country identifying as Evangelical Christian - but if you take away the number of denominations who support GLBT equal rights, the numbers come down to about 12-15% of the population.

Compared to the number of GLBT and allies, maybe a third of "our" population considering we normally poll or vote these measures about 45% consistently.

There are plenty of pastors out there who could have said a prayer, especially one celebrating all this "unity" we keep hearing about.

And if you don't find it offensive, that's your call. But if you haven't noticed, alot of the GLBT community and allies here are already voicing their displeasure. Not just from his over all stance, but particularly for his vocal support of Prop 8.

But I do know this much. If I saw someone make a comment that caused insult and uproar to the African American or Asian community here on DU, but didn't understand why they were upset - I sure wouldn't be posting in opposition to negate their feelings simply because I apparently didn't understand the issue well enough to make a call on it.

And when are "so called" progressives (not specifically you, I'm pissed about this whole thread) going to finally get the concept that something doesn't have to be popular to be right? And that we elect our leaders based on the premise that they're going to do the right thing, not simply the popular?

Because if a 1/3 of this country is as bigoted as it was starting to seem during the election of the first Afro-American to the Presidency - maybe he should invite the Grand Wizard up there - be inclusive, reach out and start healing.... You don't heal cancer by inviting it to share the honors at the world's biggest party - you take a scalpel and cut it out or you blast it enough radiation to make it's intolerance glow bright enough for the whole world to condemn it.

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

74. would it matter if it did?

[GarbagemanLB]

80. Opening dialogue is always a good thing. If the policies start appeasing the religious right, I will

agree with you.

[Toasterlad]

95. Your Mouth Is Cordially Invited to Open a Dialogue With My Ass.

Now THAT'S communicating! I appreciate your passion regarding your position! Inspiring, to say the least! You're definitely very persuaive! I might even be tempted to change my mind, if your position wasn't "Let bigots preach at the inauguration of the President of the United States"! Sorry, I'm kind of on the con side of the bigotry issue.

Great dialoguing with you, though! You're very talented!

[Critters2]

8. Maybe the whole list hasn't been made public. nt

[tblue]

11. Somebody has to tell Obama: There's such a thing as too much tolerance.

[cali]

13. I'm sorry but conflating the KKK and that ass Warren

is just weak- and sloppy thinking. Obama doesn't support marriage equality either. Nor does 99% of the Congress. Maybe they shouldn't be there either. I think they're flat wrong. I don't think they're analogous to the KKK.

[LeftyMom]

26. So bigotry is okay when it's popular? And Obama being against marriage doesn't make it right

IT MAKES HIM WRONG.

[cali]

32. It makes him wrong. it does not make him a bigot.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that every person who doesn't support marriage equality is a de facto bigot.

[Maven]

36. Well, wake the fuck up then.

There are degrees of bigotry but "separate but equal" is discrimination. De facto discrimination.

[cali]

53. I agree that separate but equal is discrimination. I don't agree

that all people who don't support marriage equality are bigots. It takes time to change the prevailing culture. And it takes an effort to understand people. I draw that from my own experiences here in Vermont. When we enacted civil unions almost 10 years ago, half the people in the state were against it. Now, not only does the vast majority here support civil unions, a smaller majority support marriage. And that's what wer're working toward in the upcoming legislative session.

Social movements don't happen over night. it would be nice if they did, but they don't. I've worked on this civil rights issue for well over a decade now. I've put my own money into it. I won't stop working until marriage equality is realized, but I don't think that calling everyone who is against marriage equality a bigot is an effective tactic.

[Maven]

54. Legitimizing people who propagate hate by giving them the prestige of an inaugural podium

isn't an effective tactic either.

Please stop excusing what cannot be excused.

[Toasterlad]

96. Wait, Wait...I've Heard This One Before!

Let me see if I remember the argument before reading the rest of your post: people who are against gay marriage aren't necessarily bigots because it takes a long time for people not to be assholes. So the white people that hated black people (and the ones who still do) aren't bigots because they just hadn't gotten around to realizing that black people deserved rights too! So, there really isn't any such thing as bigotry...there's only people who need to finish making up their minds!

Was that the gist?

[LeftyMom]

41. Is there another word for people who deny others' rights based on their own biases?

:shrug:

No really, I'm waiting. Bust out your thesaurus and try to find a way to say bigot without saying bigot.

[awoke_in_2003]

60. Unfortunately...

homophobia and atheistphobia (i just made that one up) are the last two "respectable" prejudices in this country.

[Hippo_Tron]

65. Bigotry and terrorism are two different things

Warren hasn't lynched any homosexuals or burned crosses on their lawns.

[KitchenWitch]

94. No but he used his church and his position to urge Yes votes on Prop 8

And it could be construed as an illegal act, and if the environment were different, could get the tax exempt status of his "beloved" church pulled.

I do not care how you slice it, the email he sent to his church members is plain old fashioned bigotry.

[Solon]

62. No it isn't, hate is hate. n/t

[yardwork]

77. I know. The KKK never said anything like this!

Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

Rick Warren: Oh I do.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/16/7415

Who could disagree? And his views on abortion - so steadfast! Not even the life of the mother is to interfere with saving that little fetus's life, because the fetus is more important than the woman, don't you know?

And it's so comforting to know that children will be taught that the earth is only 6,000 years old and any scientific comments to the contrary are ungodly.

Rick Warren is the ideal choice to symbolize Obama's connection to God. Don't you agree? Who wouldn't?

[mopinko]

101. difference between idiots and murderers last i looked.

this is out of hand.

[Maven]

34. Well now, that would be inexcusable wouldn't it?

But an antigay bigot just has a "difference of opinion."

:grr:

[LostinVA]

35. It's so we can educate the anti-gay people, or so I've been told

[Thrill]

68. Cheney will be there

[genna]

73. So you are equating all religious leaders to the KKK?

I must have missed this correlation.


If you are saying that the KKK wants nonwhites to be second class citizens while the white race (however they define white) to be supreme, then I might see the huge leap to suggest that religion forces GBLT into second class status.


But I am not aware of a systematic attack of hangings, lynchings, or beatings by a winking and a nodding approval prone legal system. Can you give us the shadowy organization which is responsible for systemic death, dishonor, and disenfranchisement within the American religious context?

[Bluenorthwest]

79. You are not aware alright

Rick Warren as an individual person, and as a public political leader, just helped pass a law that stripped people of existing civil rights. It happened the same night Obama won, so you may have missed the thousands marching in the streets.
Warren worked behind the scens with other religios leaders to accomplish this disenfranchisement. Last month.
And beating and murders are pretty damn common as well.

No one here equated all religious leaders with the KKK. Rick Warren on the other hand equates all gay people with pedophiles and inscest practiioners. Were you aware of that?
So are you standing with Warren?

[T Wolf]

6. Then, why doesn't he have a KKK member up there to show just how fucking big the tent is?

There is right and wrong, at least, on some issues.

How about if Obama leaves half the troops in Iraq forever? That would be great, wouldn't it?

[Hippo_Tron]

66. Bigotry does not equal terrorism

Warren may be a bigot but he hasn't lynched anybody or burned a cross on anybody's lawn.

[yardwork]

78. And his views are lovely! Check this out:

Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

Rick Warren: Oh I do.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/16/7415

Who could disagree? And his views on abortion - so steadfast! Not even the life of the mother is to interfere with saving that little fetus's life, because the fetus is more important than the woman, don't you know?

And it's so comforting to know that children will be taught that the earth is only 6,000 years old and any scientific comments to the contrary are ungodly.

Rick Warren is the ideal choice to symbolize Obama's connection to God. Don't you agree? Who wouldn't?

[Hippo_Tron]

83. Sarcasm aside I think it's a poor choice by Obama

And actually a sad commentary on the American people given that in matters like this, politicians are acting this way because they are pandering to them.

But Rick Warren is a bigot, not a terrorist. The KKK comparisons are not valid.

[yardwork]

85. Most KKK members have never thrown a bomb. Does that make them less hateful?

[Hippo_Tron]

92. Many of them actively facilitate such actions, though

Whereas I think you would have to go through quite a few degrees of separation to find Rick Warren complicit in a beating of a gay person or bombing of an abortion clinic.

I think a good comparison to Warren who practices hate against another group would be Mel Gibson. His antisemitism is despicable but again it's not the same as the KKK.

[Toasterlad]

99. You Are Sadly Deluded

If you knew how many fine, upstanding christian youth were responsible for violence against gay people every year, maybe you wouldn't be so quick to blithely excuse Warren's hate speech.

There is a DEFINITE parallel between Evangelicals and the KKK. The two are OFTEN one and the same.

[Hippo_Tron]

104. I don't disagree with most of what you have said...

Except that I don't think I'm deluded and I still don't believe that Warren's offenses are on the same degree as someone who participates in the KKK. There are many people who are complicit in those upstanding christian youth beating up gay people every year. Not the least of which are the parents who teach them to hate homosexuals.

But there's a difference between being complicit and inciting or actively participating hate crimes. Last I checked Warren did not tell his congregation to go beat up gay people. It is true that he and millions of others have undoubtedly contributed to a culture of hate that leads to gay people being persecuted to the degree that they are. Hell, I'm complicit to a degree because I used the word "fag" as a slur in middle school and part of high school until I learned better.

The Evangelicals and the Christian right are reprehensible but they are not the KKK. Degree of actions do matter.

[yardwork]

106. The fact that we're even considering the KKK and Warren in the same context suggests

that Obama can probably find a better minister to connect his presidency to God.

[Hippo_Tron]

109. Again I think this is a poor choice on Obama's part

But I don't think that we should be considering the KKK and Warren in the same context and that is where I diverge from most here. As I replied to your other post, Fred Phelps is a terrorist in the sense that the KKK is. Rick Warren, while still a despicable bigot, is not.

[yardwork]

103. Warren actively campaigned for Yes on Proposition 8. He told his flock to vote for it.

[Hippo_Tron]

107. Which is not the same as actively encouraging people to beat up gay people

Yes it's reprehensible and yes it's bigotry. But the KKK are not just bigots, they are terrorists. If you want a more apt comparison, inviting a KKK member to the inauguration would be like inviting Fred Phelps. Warren is a bigot any way you spin it. But he is not Fred Phelps.

[yardwork]

108. But that's far afield of our original issue. Warren doesn't have to be as bad as Phelps

to be the wrong choice.

Of the thousands upon thousands of ministers Obama could choose, he should not choose one who reminds people - even remotely - of the Klan.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. They are simply providing entertainment.

Bigot Warren is praying on behalf of our country and our President.

Obama has fucked over gays before -- shame on him for doing it again.

[wndycty]

10. Explain to me again how he has fucked over the gays. . .

. . .Warren is not setting policy. Warren is not going to get in the way of some of the proposals he has introduced in support of LGBT community.

[LostinVA]

14. It is NO DIFFERENT than having David Duke up there on that podium

And you know it.

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. He knows, but he doesn't care

He has his; fuck everyone else.

[GarbagemanLB]

20. What percentage of the population does Duke represent and speak to?

[Lautremont]

64. That's your argument?

The logical extension of it is that if Duke DID have significant support, and it was therefore politically worthwhile to have him up on stage in order to please the venal racists of America, then it would be the right thing to do. If that is in fact what you're saying, you should make the full argument and own it properly.

[musette_sf]

38. agree completely

Slick Dick Warren hates women, gays and science. he is an ignorant blister on the keester of humanity. this is an insult to many of us who worked and prayed (YES PRAYED) for Obama's victory. to feature this disgusting toady to much that is base and evil in American culture, at was supposed to be OUR celebration for CHANGE, is a monumental affront to many of us.

[LostinVA]

47. It's also an affront to every Christ-minded Democratic Christian

[musette_sf]

50. exactly

those of us who actually study the word of Jesus the Christ, and who prayed long and hard for an Obama victory, are disenfranchised by this fundie ass kissing.

[LostinVA]

52. The HUGE majority of Christians I know are pro GLBT rights

Catholics, UMC, UUs, everyone.

[Hippo_Tron]

67. The KKK are not just a hate group, they are terrorists

Equating them with Warren is not a fair comparison. Warren never lynched anybody or burned a cross on their lawn. Not that this makes Obama right, but there is more that separates Warren from the KKK than their type of bigotry.

[Bluenorthwest]

82. You keep making that point

And it may be true of Warren as an individual, but it is playing patsy cake with the truth to pretend that religiously motivated hate crimes are common as dirt. Rhetoric served up by Warren and his ilk is part of that process.
Everyday some religionist beats some gay or transexual person to a pulp. This week, they attacked two brothers who were not even gay, just too brotherly for Warrenland. They shouted anti-gay and racist crap as they beat them. One is brain dead.
There is pleny of violence and intimidation, and there always has been. The religionists organized to slander and oppress a minority they don't like. Some of them get violent. Some blow up clinics too.
So if there is a difference, it is in a matter of degree, not of quality.

[Hippo_Tron]

87. By that logic you could say that everybody who peacefully protested the war...

Was exactly the same as William Ayers. For the record I think that Obama used poor judgment in this instance and am not pleased with his decision. But the "he might as well have invited someone from the KKK" statements are ridiculous. Degree of actions does matter.

[Bluenorthwest]

93. Er, no.

Warren feeds the machine at a high level, hyperbolic language and rhetoric to fuel the actions of those who work at more mundane levels. How are random participants against a war who share no affiliation with Ayers in anyway like a leader of an active political movement that has common theology and membership ties?
Warren is not some random protester, he is a leader of anti-gay bigotry. He speaks words that incite.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

24. Donnie McClurkin ring a bell?

http://gaycitynews.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=2729&PAG=461&dept_id=568864&newsid=18978548&rfi=6

He was the Preacher/MC at the big gospel concert event during O's campiagn. He is an "ex-gay" bigot who has some seriously ugly things to say about gays. Gay rigths groups contacted O's camp the minute he was announced and expressed their concerns and asked that he not be included. They were roundly ignored by Obama. They were told right here on DU "it was only going to be one song, get your panties out of that twist".

So what did ol' DOnnie do with his time in the spotlight? He proceeded to go on a lengthy rant about the evils of homosexuality. At an official Obama event.

Fuck. That. Shit.

[CTLawGuy]

75. um, no he didn't

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/obamas-gospel-concert-tour/


"He approached the subject gingerly at first. Then, just when the concert had seemed to reach its pitch and about to end, Mr. McClurkin returned to it with a full-blown plea: “Don’t call me a bigot or anti-gay when I have suffered the same feelings,” he cried.

“God delivered me from homosexuality,” he added. He then told the audience to believe the Bible over the blogs: “God is the only way.” The crowd sang and clapped along in full support. "

--------------------------------

I would hardly call that a "lengthy rant about the evils of homosexuality." He was trying to defend himself from all the controversy around his appearance.

[Toasterlad]

100. Here's the Part You Left Out, Picky-Choosy

"Mr. McClurkin turned the final half hour of the three-hour concert into a revival meeting about the lightning rod he has become for the Obama campaign."

Half an hour, Sparky. Half an hour of "God delivered me from homosexuality" and "God is the only way".

He has a funny way of defending himself. Just like you have an funny way of defending him.

[Maven]

44. Explain to me what prominent gay person is getting a microphone after Warren

Besides a fucking MARCHING BAND.

[TechBear_Seattle]

56. Precedent says that Warren will be influencing policy, actually

Traditionally, the Inaugural Prayer (and there almost always is one, just like there is almost always a Bible for the swearing-in) is given by the President-Elect's spiritual advisor. The President's spiritual advisor is the person to whom he turns when faced with a moral crisis or has questions about good and evil, right and wrong. As such, the spiritual advisor has considerable influence over policy.

And by chosing Rick Warren, Obama is effectively declaring that he will be guided in questions of right and wrong by a hard-core right-wing homophobe.

Please, explain to me how I, as a gay man, should just shut up and stay silent at this?

[genna]

102. Traditionally a spiritual advisor? There is nothing traditional about Obama's path to find a

religious leader.


In order to appease most Americans, or should I say nonBlack Americans, Obama had to toss his spiritual leader. He chose not to find a new church home during the campaign. I assume it is because his presence would have toppled the ordinary service for any congregation.


If he and Michelle are able to find a new church in the next 4 to 8 years, I will be shocked.


You tell me how Rick Warren is boosted to the top of the list of religious leaders. Rick Warren is more vanilla than the Nixon tapes Billy Graham. Most of the Chicago crowd of religious leaders on the left have taken political positions which would impact the circus environment the media made of the Obamas' faith.


This is still not policy decision territory. I've heard Donnie McClurkin and can't see how Obama overlooked his personal testimony centered ministry. McClurkin is looking to convert gay men into straight men. Is Warren advocating the same thing?

[yardwork]

86. I don't understand why anyone would be upset....

Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

Rick Warren: Oh I do.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/16/7415

[FrenchieCat]

25. You think those voting against Gay rights are about to disappear?

If one really wants equal rights for Gays, then I suggest we start looking at ways to sway those who, to date, are voting against Gay Rights....otherwise, you'll have to wait till they die off. How do you propose changing their minds as they head to the ballot box? Beating them into submission? Telling them we hate their guts too? I just don't think that this is gonna do it.

I talked to a Gay friend of mine who said that the only way Gay rights could ever be achieved was via education of those who currently are anti-Gay bigots. So how does that start exactly, if we are only offering hate in return? How do we educate those who would vote against the rights of others if we are not even willing to have an association with them on something that they care more about than we ever will? When was the last time you truly cared who did the religious invocation anytime, anywhere? :shrug:

[ruggerson]

97. did we win civil rights by reaching out and educating

or did we win them by shedding blood and fighting bigotry in every last corner?

What turned America around was watching people get hosed in the streets. Not "educating" them.

[LostinVA]

12. What a homophobic, piece of shit OP

I think we should have teh Grand WIZARD up there too.

[wndycty]

17. Explain to me how the OP is homophobic then have it locked. . .

. . .I would not want to say anything remotely homophobic so explain to me what I said that was homophobic.

[Dawgs]

59. Homophobic? Dumb maybe, but...

I think someone needs to relax a little.

Not every comment or suggestion is homophobic.

:crazy:

[Solon]

71. Given the OP's history, the characterization is accurate. n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. You may not give a Lesbian and Gay Band's ass about my fundamental human rights

But you can be damned well certain that I do.

Obama has selected a virulently homophobic pastor as the principle religious representative of his inauguration. He is, in a very real way, declaring that Warren is his spiritual advisor. How can this possibly not reflect Obama's views on matters like gay rights?

If you don't care, fine. But you have no fucking right to get pissy when I respond to attacks on me and mine.

[Cha]

18. Absofreakin'Lutely!

I love it!

[Alter Ego]

19. Yeah, I wonder how many folks who are bitching about Warren

forgot about this.

Damn. Warren isn't going to go up on stage and start in on a fire-and-brimstone rant about how homosexuals will burn in hell, and if anyone thinks he is they're out of their mind.

[wndycty]

21. Not only that you know in his Inaugural Address Obama is going to mention LGBT rights. . .

. . .and Warren has to sit there and listen to it.

[GodlessBiker]

22. He publicly supported Prop 8. That's enough in my book to make him an asshole.

[FreeState]

27. He did a lot more than publicly support it n/t

[GodlessBiker]

30. I would not at all be surprised.

[LeftyMom]

23. So it's okay to give a homophobe a national platform because he may get squicked out by The Gays

in the process? How fucking dumb is that?

[IndianaJones]

28. why no white supremacists on the bill? nt.

[PVnRT]

29. Rick Warren OK for equal time. Solid progressives to balance cabinet BAD.

[HeraldSquare212]

31. I'm pretty unhappy about it, I don't know why Obama had to do that.

[Maven]

33. Ruin his day??? Bigots like Warren RUIN LIVES.

Another day qwelling dissent for you.

The only reason you're posting this thread is that you KNOW IT'S WRONG, and you know people are justified in complaining about it.

[LostinVA]

37. BINGO

I emailed Haruka this news,a nd she is spitting nails.

[LeftyMom]

46. Damned right they do.

[musette_sf]

48. right on

write to change.gov and let the Obama team know how you feel about this offense.

[Maven]

39. Fuck this thread and fuck your rationalization.

Period.

[wndycty]

40. Thanks for telling me to fuck off

:kick:

[Solon]

63. You deserve it, and everyone should see this thread...

I hope your days on this board, which were too long already, are now numbered. :grr:

[LeftyMom]

49. ^ What he said.

[LostinVA]

42. By all laws of logic, I guess this mean Obama approves of Prop8

No matter what he said before the election. Having someone who was a big part of getting Prop8 passed giving the Invocation?

Wonderful.

I thought McClurkin was politicking at its worst, but this? This goes beyond that. This is making me sick.

[scheming daemons]

55. Oh noes!.... and since she accepted a position in his administration...

...it means Hillary approves of Prop8 too!!!!!


What will you do now?


:eyes:

[FreeState]

43. Thats no comfort - Rick Warren is a spiritual terrorist and should have no place

in any event IMO.

[musette_sf]

45. agreed

let change.gov know how you feel. i did.

[nomaco-10]

57. Obama is a very fascinating man....

It's like he wants to throw everybody in a big room and lock the door til the yelling stops and flying objects quit hitting the wall and everybody breaks into a big chorus of kumbaya.

I don't know if it's genius or crazy, but it is damn fascinating.

[JohnnieGordon]

58. Or maybe he's just too spineless to take a side n/t

[cboy4]

61. Oh poor Rick Warren....How can he, a white male with all of

his rights and privileges, possibly make it through the day?

:eyes: :nopity:

[yardwork]

69. Why Warren? Here's his opinion of gay marriage:

Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

Rick Warren: Oh I do.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/16/7415

[ruggerson]

81. I'm not very surprised at this OP

[JVS]

84. Rick Warren was a fucking douchebag to Obama by helping McCain at that forum on faith bullshit and..

he gets rewarded with this. It's not good.

[jenmito]

88. K& (5th) R.

I agree. Of course we're not going to agree with all of his choices. He never promised us that he'd do everything to please US. A big tent is a GOOD thing.

[Toasterlad]

89. "I view this as a glass half full situation"

Whereas I view it as a "your brain's half empty" situation.

[wndycty]

90. Thanks for the insult

:kick:

[KitchenWitch]

91. This was a dreadful choice on the part of PE Obama

Pastor Warren and his ilk would have our country go back 100 years as far as civil rights are concerned. These same people who believe that homosexuality is an abomination to GAWD, also yearn for women to no longer have any choice in whether they reproduce or not, they seek to control women to the point of women being the property of their husbands.

I will support Obama, but I cannot, in good conscience, support this decision.

[jasmeel]

98. Thank you! I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[TexasObserver]

105. Disagree. He's a douche nozzle.

Just say GO FUCK YOURSELF, RICK!

[genna]

110. Windy City I've never quite read a thread like this.

The call and response is if you don't agree than you're some kind of epithet.

I don't live in California. I supported civil unions until I read one of these people on this thread...Tech Bear *I think*...make the point that it is separate but equal a few months ago. I didn't like the result of Prop. 8. After I read some of the threads here, I liked the scapegoating less. When I read the racial slurs associated with Prop 8, I wondered how many AAs are going to be encouraged to vote for a community that defames them.


Now in reading this thread, if the political reality is to draw lines and say you are either with us or against us...it is going to end poorly.


It took more than blood in the streets for the civil rights movement to move forward. It took more than AAs calling the majority racist before access was granted.

If name calling is all Democrats have, I don't know when gays will be able to openly serve in the military or marry in all 50 states. When it comes to trench warfare, the people in the middle usually are the first to lose. If that is what is at stake in this issue, then the peacemakers are the first in the middle.

[SidneyCarton]

111. I wish I could rec your post.

The outrage here is exponential and self-feeding. And in doing so, refuses to see the consequences of such wrath. Failure to see beyond one's own anger will be our downfall if we are not careful. Thank you for a reasoned analysis of a messy situation, and the courage to post your ideas where they will not be popular.