AP: Are Blagojevich tapes enough evidence to convict?

[deminks]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081211/ap_on_re_us/illinois_governor_charges

CHICAGO – The wiretaps portray what prosecutors call blatant corruption: Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich scheming to barter Barack Obama's vacant U.S. Senate seat for a Cabinet post, an ambassadorship or high-paying jobs for himself and his wife.

But just how tight is the case prosecutors cobbled together as they raced to stop what U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald said "can only be described as a political corruption crime spree?"

Former prosecutors and defense attorneys surveyed Wednesday say the recordings are powerful evidence that can go a long way toward landing a conviction and sending the governor to prison.

But some legal experts say prosecutors may have a tough time overcoming the fact that Blagojevich never actually sold the Senate seat.

"The weakness in the government's case seems to be that Blagojevich schemed to do things but didn't actually do them," Chicago defense attorney John Beal said.

(end snip)

Yes, he is a scumbag and he cusses alot. So was Nixon. Nixon carried things out. Where's the beef? Why DID Fitzy spring the trap now? After 3-5 years of listening to this guy say f*ck, you would think they could have caught him in an actual act. But, our spies like to listen to phone sex, so why not the FBI? (Hi, Agent Mike!)

They rethugs are not only trying desperately to draw in Obama, they are trying to win the seat through a special election. Fitzy has given them hope. Questions have to be asked. And not from PE Obama.

[babylonsister]

1. Here's why Fitz couldn't wait...

Because of this

Written by legal eagle/writer Scott Turow

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10turow.html

snip//


In his news conference Tuesday, Mr. Fitzgerald indicated that he hadn’t planned to indict Governor Blagojevich until next spring, meaning that the prosecutor was going to wait until his own fate was decided. Instead, with wiretap evidence piling up that showed that Mr. Blagojevich was intent on selling the Obama seat in exchange for a substantial personal benefit, like a high-paying job for himself or his wife, Mr. Fitzgerald was forced to make the arrest. He decided that he could not even wait for the grand jury investigating Mr. Blagojevich to meet on Thursday and indict him.

Bypassing the grand jury and proceeding through a criminal complaint instead effectively puts the case against Mr. Blagojevich on the express route. Mr. Fitzgerald will now have only 20 days to either give the governor a preliminary hearing — which would amount to free discovery for his defense lawyer — or return an indictment. Given Mr. Fitzgerald’s frank appeal for information from the public at his news conference, it’s obvious that his case is not fully buttoned up, and that Mr. Blagojevich forced the prosecutor’s hand.

[monmouth]

5. I'm guessing here but Fitz stepped into a "crime in progress."......n/t

[babylonsister]

7. Yes, that's what it sounds like to me, too. nt

[Captain Hilts]

11. BINGO. nt

[Renew Deal]

26. The thinking is that it would be much worse to have a dirty senator seated

And then start indicting senators as well as Blago and everyone else.

[merh]

20. There had to be more than just the scheming

one would think the gov has evidence of blago relaying his price to those he was trying to bribe (eg testimony of someone in Obama's admin who was told he expected to be rewarded for the appointment of O's preferred candidate). The 7th Circuit requires proof that the accused acted with specific intent to commit the offense and that the accused took a substantial step toward its completion. (See the Pattern Criminal Federal Jury Instructions for the 7th Circuit, page 54, @ http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/Rules/pjury.pdf

That means that sitting around and bragging about what you are going to demand or what you claim to have demanded is not sufficient, there has to be more than that. There has to be some step taken by the accused to actually commit the crime, as in contact with those that they were trying to shake down.

[BeyondGeography]

2. Blago is scum, but I have been unimpressed by the tapes

So far, he stands guilty of chest thumping and not much more, based on what I have heard.

[chimpymustgo]

3. Definitely guilty of being a foul-mouthed blowhard. A good lawyer would love this case.

[rfranklin]

4. Gee, I scheme and I cuss...I guess I should be in jail...

I think if I had the power to appoint a U.S. Senator I would expect to get something for my trouble too.

[terrya]

10. "I would expect to get something for my trouble too"

United States Senate seats are not something to be purchased by sitting Governors. If that's the attitude that some people have, we'd better start implementing some reforms quickly.

[NashVegas]

18. Terry, I'm Sorry, But Blago Only Tried What Others Succeed At All the Time

The only difference between Blago's corruption and the same corruption we see every other years when the ownership class makes senators out of people who will do their bidding, is that Blago was stupid enough to put it in plain language.

Given the choice between giving Blago's wife a cushy job, or voting with AT&T everytime the chance comes up, which is really the worse crime?

[Ganja Ninja]

6. I don't know if they have enough to convict or not but ...

I would think they would have to have Blago or someone who works for Blago making a proposal to someone, not just talking between themselves. Or they would have to have someone(s) wiling to testify against him that he was seeking a bribe of some kind.

That being said I wish he would resign. He's a sleezebag.

[geckosfeet]

8. Last I heard, talking about a crime is different than committing a crime.

I am not sure how they can convict him unless they have evidence of quid pro quo in other arenas.

[trayfoot]

9. I agree

though that is not to say that I think he is a stellar person - I am embarrassed that he is a democrat!

[Captain Hilts]

12. Yes. But it's enough to force him out of office. nt

[Clio the Leo]

13. My father, who is an attorney, said the same thing....

.... also said the only possible thing they could get him for was fraud.

[jberryhill]

14. On the extortion relative to Wrigley Field - probably

Whether or not they have him actually trying to sell the Senate seat, IMHO it's good that he was stopped before he tried.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. Conspiracy.

In the criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more natural persons to break the law at some time in the future, so a natural person identified with the mind of a legal entity cannot conspire with the company alone. There is no limit on the number participating in the conspiracy and, in most countries, no requirement that any steps have been taken to put the plan into effect (compare attempts which require proximity to the full offense).

http://www.experiencefestival.com/conspiracy_crime_-_statutory_conspiracy

[merh]

24. Where was the charge of conspiracy

They are charged with violating 18 USC 1349, that is the attempt statute

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 63 > § 1349
§ 1349. Attempt and conspiracy

Any person who attempts or conspires to commit any offense under this chapter shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the attempt or conspiracy.

As opposed to 18 USC 371 - the conspiracy statute

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 63 > § 371
§ 371. Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States

If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

If, however, the offense, the commission of which is the object of the conspiracy, is a misdemeanor only, the punishment for such conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for such misdemeanor.

The 7th Circuit does require "proof that the accused acted with specific intent to commit the offense and that the accused took a substantial step toward its completion."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. Dunno.

My best uninformed guess.

[Johonny]

16. I imagine he has more evidence

they were investigating him for like 3 years now. I think the amount of stuff on him is pretty bad.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. No, they don't...the senate seat case is already unravelling

They may have him on strong-arming the Trib, but just barely.

The senate seat sale business will be thrown ou7t by a judge before it goes anywhere. There's no there there. This is not to say that I support Blago. It's just weak shit. For every point, Blago can contend that he wanted standard political consideration rather than "something of value" for himself.

[Johonny]

27. How can you possibly know

what evidence he has? It's not like they dump all the evidence collect the past 3 years to the press yesterday. That's not how criminal prosecution cases play out. It's very likely they have more evidence they haven't told you. It's certainly unlikely in 1 day the case has suddenly magically fallen apart. I guess will sit back and watch. I doubt very much any judge wants to throw this case out.

[leftofthedial]

17. they need witnesses

Three factors to consider:

1. Fitzgerald didn't have enough real evidence to take this before a grand jury, where prosecutors can famously "indict a ham sandwich."

2. When it is necessary for the prosecutor to call a sensational press conference to announce an arrest, it means they need public opinion to weigh in because they fear the weight of their evidence is insufficient.

3. The greater the level of hyperbole (and that one was a doozy!) in that press conference, the weaker the case.

Personally, I think Blagojevich is a crooked piece of crap who belongs out of the party and in jail. But I am not among the legion of DUers who moisten up at the mention of Fitzgerald's name or who squeal at his every appearance like fainting teenyboppers at a Beatles concert. He is the most overrated prosecutor in America.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Great post!

:thumbsup:

Since when did progressives go all ga-ga for Federal prosecutors? It's embarrassing.

[merh]

22. I just basically posted the same thing

they need more than just the tapes of Blago cussing and bragging.

see post 20
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7972365&mesg_id=7972575

[LiberalFighter]

23. I agree with your last sentence.

[KittyWampus]

25. Since you're SO fucking smart, who are all the better prosecutors and why? Since Fitz is overratedf

or rather, "He is the MOST overrated prosecutor in America".

How many Federal Prosecutors can you even name without googling?

I can appreciate the rest of your post, but find your last paragraph an attempt like most DU'ers to inflate their own persona on the internet.

And no, I never got "moist" over Fitzgerald.

I have appreciated his handling of the corruption in Illinois and his handling of Scooter Libby.

And no, I never got all wrapped up in "Fitzmas"

[leftofthedial]

28. how about "he is overrated as a prosecutor"?

I don't have a persona to inflate. LOL

[MarjorieG]

32. No apparent evidence of anyone else on tape, taking the bait. All a figment of Blago delusion....

Bad salesmanship, trying to up the ante. Am I correct that none of these supposed marks of Blago were ever complicit, on tape?

(sp)

[leftofthedial]

33. I'll be interested to see the evidence at trial

although I think there is a chance that this may not go to trial

[happychatter]

29. The impression I got was this was a premature, but necessary pre-emptive move

To stop a Senatorial appointment going through and being tainted later

I don't know about all the Machiavellian ins and outs.

It is VERY UNFORTUNATE that a golden and hopeful period of time has turned into a sleazy media circus

But it won't be the first theft, the media has perpetrated from the people this year, eh?

[JuniperLea]

30. That's my feeling too...

Fitz had to shine a light on it so Congress could come back and say they would refuse to seat any Senator he chose. Seems there is far more evidence on the alleged extortions.