David Dreier on verge of being outed...just up on raw story

[DemMother]

BlogActive says it will out congressman as early as Sunday or Monday. Apparently Hustler is also coming out with a story on him in one of their fall issues. (The BlogActive link, makes it sound like they're giving him some time to escort himself out of the closet before they drag him out. The headline on rawstory talks about outing him; the blogactive link talks about revealing new details tomorrow--so this just may be the start.)

I live in Dreier's district and am completely mystified why it has taken so long. Unfortunately, I can't see it helping his opponent--a lesbian, former heavy equipment operator who has never held office. Maybe if Dreier is on the ropes, the Democrats can recruit someone with a real chance to beat him in two years. They've put up the lamest candidates for the past few elections because they can't compete with his war chest.

raw story:

"A Republican congressman from California who has repeatedly voted against gay rights measures is believed to be gay himself.

After RAW STORY ran an article Wednesday about a gay activist who announced his intention to ‘out’ Congressman David Dreier, R-CA, Hustler Magazine revealed that they planned a major expose exploring the intersection of the congressman’s sexuality and his positions on gay rights...

http://www.rawstory.com/
http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=293 (I think this is the updated version, but there may be more to come tomorrow at blogactive)

I have such mixed feelings about outing. I'd feel sorry for Dreier if he weren't such a tool for the right wing--a presentable, seemingly reasonable guy (at least until some of his recent appearances when he seemed to be unraveling). It's hard to be sympathetic when you look at his record of votes on gay issues.

[DerBeppo]

1. i don't agree with this tactic at all.

1) it implies that being gay is a negative or something that is scandalous.

2) it obviously hasn't and won't effect his decision to vote against gay rights bills.

3) dragging someone's sexuality into the public eye when that person has done what they could to keep it private is flat out wrong.

the letter in parentheses at the end of a person's name does not change the fact that this is wrong. it was wrong with clinton and it's wrong here.

[still_one]

NO, it represent hypocriscy!!!

These are self-hating gays, who deserve what they get. It is not because they are gay, it is because they have lied about it, and they are hypocrites.

[DerBeppo]

11. has he?

has he lied about it or has he just kept it a non-issue?

[still_one]

15. His voting record represents the hypocrisy

He supports a party that openly hates gays in its platform

He deserves whatever he gets

He made his choices, he could have been a Democrat, and then it would not have been an issue

[Lefty48197]

40. A non issue? Check his party's platform, rhetoric, and mob hate fests

I think the right wingers made it an issue. Dreier should have abandoned the party of hate a long time ago.

[no name no slogan]

79. ...and become a one-issue Democrat?

There are gay Republicans for a reason: they largely disagree with what the Democratic Party stands for on most issues.

Hell, I disagree with a lot of the party's platform this year (as do many other Democrats), but that doesn't make me any less of a Democrat. However, I still support most of it and therefore will support Democratic candidates over Republicans in every race.

And before we look at "who's better" on GLBT rights, what about the public position of our current presidential nominee? He does not support gay marriage, but believes GLBT rights should be left to the states-- except when it's his own state, and the court rules in favor of them. Then he's against them.

Overall, do the Dems have better positions on GLBT issues? Most of the time, yes-- but they still DO NOT stand for equal rights for GLBT persons. Just look at Kerry's stance on gay marriage, and his statement after the Massachusetts courts "legalized" gay marriage. It's certainly a far cry from the positions supported by most rank-and-file Democrats.

I actually know a couple of gay Republicans, and they are Republicans for a variety of reasons: taxes, social spending, defense/military, etc. They are also NOT single-issue voters. Therefore they vote with what they perceive as their best interests: for them, it happens to be the Republicans.

I hope Dreier decides to keep his seat, and runs for it if he's outed. It's small steps like this that can make a difference in how people perceive those who are not exactly like them. Who knows, maybe the Repubs will drop their oppositions to all things GLBT-- which could lead to much bigger and better things down the road.

[rocktivity]

81. How can you support a party that doesn't support YOU???

By the way, have the Log Cabin Republicans officially endorsed Kerry?

:headbang:
rocknation

[Erika]

5. Constituents Have The Right To Vote

as they see fit. However, this guy does appear to be cut from the same cloth as Bill Bennett who lectured on Virtues only to be later found to gamble away 8 million bucks in casinos. It stinks.

[Carla in Ca]

18. We have had rumors he is for along time

nobody cared until he voted for the hate amandment

[Prodemsouth]

32. Read Micheal Signorile's, (a gay man) Queer in America which is

about "outing". Signorile, who was one of the first to take on this concept, points out and makes it clear that "outing" (he calls it "reporting") helped gay people. He was a Gay rights activist. It is those that hide in the closet that say there is something wrong with being gay. I would imagine gays would be offended by comparing this situation to President Clinton's adulterous affair.

[poliguru]

42. I would also imagine he doesn't speak for every gay person

Just because he has an opinion (which he is entitled to) doesn't make him all-knowing. Ther are many gay people struggling with their identity, and they have the right to come to terms with it in their own time. I think it's horrible to use that struggle against a person in a political battle. And I wasn't comparing being gay to the adulterous affair, I was comparing people's interference in ther people's private lives. Everyone has a right to privacy.

[Prodemsouth]

46. He is talking about closeted gay people in power effecting gay peoples

life. They do severe damage. The whole privacy issue is very dated when it comes to the current gay outlook on the closet. Gay activist have ripped the weapon of exposure from the right and used it to help Gay people. More power to them. If you would take time to read the book it points out just how effective this has been and why the right wing has the same view on this subject that you currently do.

[poliguru]

48. Idea of privacy is dated?!?

Everybody has closet issues. Some are gay, some have background baggage some have current baggage. There is nothing so special bout the gay issue that it trumps all other issues, I'm sorry. I have no respect for the "weapon of exposure" - that's just a way to try to justify dirty politics. I don't need to read the book to know that. I fully believe that people doing wrong things in government should be exposed for that. Bu personal life decisions or inclinations are no one's business. I don't understand why people who want to epose him as gay don't fight him on his issues. If he WASN'T gay, would they just give up? Bush isn't gay, but he's certainly no humanitarian. I'm more than willing to call him on that. The argument for exposure makes no sense.

[QC]

57. Privacy vs. Secrecy -- there is a difference.

Dreier lives openly with his partner/chief-of-staff. They attend public events together. Practically everyone in Washington knows the score. So we're not talking privacy here. We're talking about Dreier's desire for secrecy, which is a whole other thing.

Dreier is counting on other gay people to keep his secret even as he uses his position of power to inflict harm on us. Should we have protected J. Edgar Hoover and Roy Cohn, too?

[poliguru]

59. Please explain how Dreier is living openly and still keeping it a secret

[QC]

63. When was the last time you saw a story about it in the media?

Everyone in the capital knows the story, but Dreier can have his cake and eat it too, secure in the knowledge that the press would never, ever publish something so déclassé about him.

He is relying on the press and other gay people to keep his little secret for him. There is no such thing as a right to secrecy, particularly for one who makes his living by persecuting his own people.

So while I agree that, say, a small town kindergarten teacher should not be outed, Dreier and Shrock represent something very different.

[poliguru]

69. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - I think it's slimy

[QC]

75. Yes, I must disagree that

we just have to lie down and let raging hypocrites like Shrock and Dreier shit on us over and over and over again for the sake of their "privacy."

Because that's really what you are asking us to do here. I know that you are concerned about privacy, which is certainly a legitimate reason for discomfort, but you are asking us, in effect, to protect our enemies by keeping their little secrets for them.

[poliguru]

80. Please don't misrepresent my statements like that

There is absolutely nothing in what I said that indicates I want to lie down and let him shit on anyone. I said to attack him on his issues ad not on his personal life. That's not lying down; that's being ethical. If you want to disagree with me, fine, you have that right. But don't put words in my mouth.

[goclark]

77. I totally agree!

He presents himself as "better than those gay people" when he is gay!

That is so cruel to ALL gay people. They are subject to enough cruelty in this world. Why should they have to take it from a person of power who IS one of them and hides inside a phony skin.

That is what makes most African Americans so upset about Condi and Colon. They have forgotten that they are Black. When Condi and Colon don't come out STRONG for Affirmative Action that makes me die inside. To think that they are visibly Black,have the power and not stand up for their people!

[goclark]

60. "Some people say " that Bush IS Gay

do a google search.

[ROakes1019]

71. gayBush

I have wondered about Bush's pseudo-macho. Today I heard him on TV while I was doing something else and he sounded very effeminate to me. As with David Drier, his sexual proclivities are his own business but his hypocrisy on every subject is disgusting.

[Bucky]

74. What a crass, horrible, immoral thing to say...

...about gay people. They certainly deserve better company than Bush.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

33. It's about Hypocrisy. Gay is not the issue.

If somebody voted against polygamy but was found to be a bigamist, they should be outed too.

[poliguru]

43. Polygamy is illegal - being gay isn't

[Cha]

49. Precisely!

[AntiCoup2K4]

72. Orrin Hatch?

:evilgrin:

[BillZBubb]

45. Totally wrong!

His voting pattern not only IMPLIES but USES GOVERNMENT POLICY to insure that being gay is negative and ILLEGAL!

Dragging someone's sexuality into the public eye when that person is a shameless hypocrite is EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Without the hypocrisy, it's a different matter. Certainly you are capable of understanding the major distinction????

[hyphenate]

52. Dreier is a complete hypocrite

As I lived in his district for nearly 15 years, and saw everything I stood for challenged by the SOB. I have no sympathy for a hypocrite like him, and regardless of whether he is gay, or whether he shouldn't be "outed" on that charge, he is no one to feel sorry for. He's on a number of committees, and has kissed Bush's ass from the get-go, and was one of the biggest assholes against Clinton during the impeachment hearings. I hated the SOB when I lived there, and he deserves what's coming to him, regardless of how it comes down on him. Payback's a bitch.

[umtalal]

62. I DESPISE the man. But this in wrong. His policies are wrong.

Once sexuality is put in this context we lose perspective. There is another guy in the South that is a freeper and was gay. He made "gay bashing" his life journay. I don't get it. If you in the closet, why do you want to hurt the group that will mostly identify with you.

I just don't get it!!!!

[still_one]

2. sorry, NO WAY

look at the assholes voting record

look at Ed Shrocks voting record

they are self-hating jerks, who deserve to reap the hate they have encouraged!!!

[Carla in Ca]

19. Shrock has (had) a 92% approval rating

with the Christian Coalition...oops!

[Julien Sorel]

3. Unless he represents a competitive district,

this seat is staying Republican. Either people will overlook this, as they did with Jim Kolbe in my state, or he'll be beaten by another Republican in the primary, who will then go on and take what should be a safe seat.

[still_one]

4. It represents the hypocricy of the republican party

Ed Schrock in VA, may just lose his seat to a Democrat

[Julien Sorel]

22. Schrock dropped out of the race.

I don't think Dreier will. Dreier's opponent looks almost non-existent; Schrock was running against an ex-Marine Iraqi war veteran/lawyer. If Dreier holds his seat during the election, I expect he'll hold it for as long as he pleases. People are forgiving and forgetful, especially if the official is good at representing their interests.

[yardwork]

25. I have been following this, but I'm far from an insider

so I don't really know what is going on. However, it seems as if these outings are being done by the group that publishes the Gay Blade in D.C., and they seem motivated by frustration and anger rather than political strategy.

I definitely don't think that the Democratic Party has anything to do with this. It's being done by a small group of people who say that they are just sick of the hypocrisy. There's a link to a blog that's been published here many times. It says that many gays are sick of covering for people who frequent the gay scene in D.C. and then support hateful legislation designed to vilify gays and lesbians.

[bushwakker]

39. the more the gop exploits anti-gay bigotry

the harsher the tactics against them will be. i support outing ALL gay gopers regardless of their voting records.

[Bozita]

6. Didn't he walk off Bill Maher's show recently?

He just flat out wasn't there when the program closed.

Must have been Bush-hating camera persons working for HBO.

[still_one]

9. Yes, he didn't like Maher's critisim of the seven minutes

[DemMother]

14. He did and that's the show that exposed even more of his hypocrisy

Maher asked him if he would send his children to Iraq. He said he would. He hesitated--almost as if he was on the verge of answering truthfully--not telling Maher he was gay, but telling him he's childless--hesitated and then said, "yes."

Like I said, I have mixed feelings about outing. My brother is openly gay, and I wouldn't have wanted him outed before he was ready. But then, he isn't a nationally known congressman whose voting record on gay rights was rated 17 percent last year. And my brother is all for a hypocrite like Dreier being exposed.

[still_one]

16. That is exactly the point

he is a Congressman who affects policy and peoples lives

They have a right to know about him. If he doesn't want it known he should not be in public office

[poliguru]

21. I don't think it's anyone's business

I don't agree at all with the argument "he's in public office so we all have a right to know about his private life." Look, I think the guy's a tool, but ethical decisions are made based on the ethics and not our personal feelings about someone. It's either wrong to out a person for political purposes or it's OK. No in-between.

It's kind of like Clinton. Do I think he should have been cheating on his wife? Of course not. But hey, he doesn't have to explain that to me, he has to explain it to Hillary. I don't sleep next to the guy. All I care about is how well he performs the jb I elected him for. He performed it well, so I have no issues.

Dreier does a shitty job. I don't like how he votes. Then people should attack his voting record. Leave the man's personal struggles to him. As we've been trying to say to Bush: "If you can't win on the issues..." We can't condemn him for being hypocritical if we do the same.

[still_one]

24. Hey, no one forced him to run for public office

If he was a private citizen, I agree with you, but the bastard can affect people's lives, and they public DOES HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW

[yardwork]

27. I think he's being outed for a different reason

As I said in my post above, I think that this is a campaign of retaliation from the gay community itself. They say that they feel used by these congressmen and their aides who frequent the gay community in D.C. and then pander to the right-wing during their day jobs.

If the Democratic Party were doing this I would be horrified and completely against it. It's the other way around. The gay community in D.C. is doing this to get revenge for the legislation that has been passed and discussed in the House and Senate.

Gays and lesbians are constituents. They have a right to express their indignation at being lied to and manipulated. That's what this is about. The people doing this don't really care whether the seat goes Democratic or Republican, although in general Republicans are less tolerant of GLBT issues, so that plays a part.

[poliguru]

41. Re these two arguments

Revenge is not a good reason. I don't care who did it or what their reasons are. It's a simple fact that if the situation was reversed and a group was outing a Dem for revenge, this board would be screaming about it. I think we need to hold ourselves to higher standards. We all complain about the tone of the election and that we need to have debates on the issues - this is a prime example. It's a true test of a person's strength of ethics if he/she support those ethics even for people he/she doesn't like. That's one of the reasons I am a very proud member of the ACLU - they support constitutional rights for EVERYONE.

Re the argument from a previous person about running for public office, I think that's a terrible argument. Again, the board would be screaming if the situation was turned about. If a Dem was pro-life, for example, and then people found out that the Dem paid for his/her daughter's abortion, I'm betting people on the board would be justifying like crazy. People are entitled to privacy no matter what job they hold - it's a constitutional right, in fact. And if we continue to act this way toward our public officials, good people will be scared away from serving our country in these capacities. We've taken the "right to know" thing way too far. Yes, the public has the right to know about things that directly relate to their job as an elected official, but it's rather fascist to suppose that we can and should reveal everything for our own purposes.

[QC]

58. False analogy.

It's kind of like Clinton. Do I think he should have been cheating on his wife? Of course not. But hey, he doesn't have to explain that to me, he has to explain it to Hillary.

Clinton having a girlfriend on the side hurt no one but Hillary.

Closeted politicians using their power to deny legal equality to gays hurts millions.

There's absolutely no comparison between the two.

[JI7]

7. who DOESN'T know he is gay ?

i'm pretty sure in his area there is an unspoken understanding among most that he is gay and they will let him do what he wants as long as he VOTES the way they want.

[AmerDem]

37. I'de be willing to guess the far right

religious wingnuts of the repuke party. I don't see this sitting too well with them. Do you want to also talk about hypocrisy? He is in favor of shrub's gay marriage amendment and who do you think the repukes put out when McGrievy came center stage about his gay issue, yep Drier. Hypocrisy written all over it, people in general aren't going to be pleased with behavior like this!

[Ladyhawk]

66. Religious wingnuts engage in hypocritical behavior daily.

I know a lot of them. They'll give Dreier a pass, most likely.

[kid a]

76. I didn't

[oasis]

8. Dreier has been handling his duties as unofficial GOP spokesman quite well

He has all the major talking points down pat and he doesn't come across as mean spirited. He was an excellent PR man for Arnold during his theft of California's governorship. He can no longer be the face of the GOP.

They'll be breaking in someone else real soon.

[still_one]

12. BULL, he is as mean spirited as the rest of them

I have seen him with Lou Dobbs telling how good off-shoring jobs are for Americans

He helped push the recall vote, and got Arnold into the office

[oasis]

17. "he doesn't come across as mean spirited". That's what I wrote.

Compare him to Dana Rohrbacher, Tom Delay or J.D. Hayworth and there's a good chance that you'll agree with me.

[DemMother]

20. You're right. He's very smooth, but his rating from the Human Rights

Campaign tells a different story--0, 25, 19 and 17 percent in his last four terms.

[oasis]

29. One of the many beefs I have with him is that he sat on his hands

when Bill Clinton gave his final State of the Union Address. I won't forget that act of disrespect.

[snippy]

36. That is why one of his primary responsibilities in the GOP

is to be one of the front men for republican lies. He is a much more effective liar for the GOP than most.

[AmandaRuth]

10. whats the point of outing if the media will not

report it.

I am still hearing stuff about the jersey Governor, nothing but nothing about Shrock.

[still_one]

13. Time will tell

[rawstory]

73. well, McGreevey was a governor, schrock was one of like 500+

schrock was a first term congressman, small fry. dreier is a little bigger, but still not governor of new jersey.

[Old and In the Way]

23. Yes, he should be outed.

The electorate should know that the same Party which is making political hay on dividing us on sexuality issues, has quite a few gays in their Party. If we can expose this as another cynical hypocrisy, they have one less false and distracting issue to run on.

[poliguru]

44. Isn't the outing a distracting issue?

Certainly being gay hasn't changed how he votes - so his voting record in and of itself should be the issue, not his personal life. People are confusing the two.

[ContinentalOp]

26. I don't know the area too well,

But I don't understand why this is a republican district. Isn't there a way for the Democrats to take this seat?

[DemMother]

28. Not the democrat they have running now

It's pretty Republican--some parts are more liberal and I think certain areas are shifting a bit. Dreier's opponent in this election has no political experience at all. I met her at the local Dem headquarters. She's pretty engaging, but a former heavy equipment operator who seems to be openly lesbian doesn't have a prayer. But, like I said in my other post, the Dems have been putting up these sacrificial lambs for years. Dreier has too much money--I think he has one of the largest war chests in the House.

[oasis]

31. The adjacent district had a rethug who was an impeachment manager. He

was tossed out immediately when he ran for his next term. Adam Schiff, a Democrat, has served in his seat since then.

Rogan was the rethug's name.

[hyphenate]

56. Rogan was a pip

I was so happy to see Schiff take his place!

[Ladyhawk]

64. Wish we could get rid of Oller...

I knew him personally when I was a kid. He's a total asswipe.

[hyphenate]

55. His section of the San Gabriel Valley

is largely bedroom communities--parts of Pasadena, Glendora, Arcadia, Temple City, Monrovia, Duarte, Covina, West Covina et al are a large part Caucasian, with a good amount of Hispanic and Asian populations intermixed. Glendora, West Covina and a few other sections are upper middle class, Republican families. There are also a lot of undereducated folks, plus a lot of manufacturing areas scattered in the area, but the more educated groups are the ones that vote. It's a Republican stronghold, and has been for as long as I can remember from living in the neighborhood, and doing some work on some initiatives while I was there. It's not exactly a liberal area.

[Erika]

30. So what is the GOP definition of Immoral?

They want a plank stating they are for an amendment to ban gay marriage but "use" popularity of their own gays, who are stupid enough to be used, for election purposes. The GOP is one sick party.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

34. His web site:

http://dreier.house.gov/



http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.asp?cycle=2004&cid=N00006932

It should be remarked that Dreier is against the removal of gay rights amendment to the US Constitution (anti-gay marriage): "I'm not supportive of amending the Constitution on this issue," Rules Committee chairman David Dreier of California told The Washington Post. "I believe that this should go through the courts." http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?id=11448&sd=02/26/04

[secular_warrior]

35. It proves the GOP can't even live by their own BS.

I don't have mixed feelings about exposing hypocrates, personal situation or not. The fact is, this isn't some personal matter having nothing to do with his work -- he is one the most prominent footsoldiers for Bush's hateful agenda. It's time we started playing tough with these people.

[bushwakker]

38. no sympathy from me

ALL gay GOPers should be outed regardless of their voting records. Their party exploits bigotry for political gain and they should be forced to take a stand against it. Sorry.

[SoCalDemocrat]

47. Screw the hypocrites

I'm all for it. Screw those right wing hypocrites.

[dave123williams]

50. Sauce for the Goose...

If the GOP feels it's acceptable to deny the Gay segment of our population some basic civil and legal rights (like spousal privilidge), by enshrining bigotry in the Constitution, I say all's fair. If they're hiding in the closet, let's shine some light in.

[hyphenate]

51. You're in Dreier's district?

I was, too, when I lived in West Covina! He's a real slimey SOB who I had to fight several times on issues. I voted against him every single chance I could in the 15 years I lived in the area. Wow--that's gonna be cool, since he's been kissing Bush's ass and licked his boots for a very long time!

My mom was having trouble with getting her social security taken care of, so I had her contact Adam Schiff's office instead of Dreier's office, because at least Schiff is a Dem. I knew nothing would ever get done if she'd relied on Dreier. He's such an ass, and deserves everything that's coming to him. Too bad West Covina and that general area is so conservative--I used to think I was being watched by sharks every time I went to vote.

[Ladyhawk]

65. Why are all the foothills areas so conservative????

I feel like I'm being watched by sharks every time I leave my apartment. I live in the middle of the California foothills, east of Modesto. It's scary here sometimes.

[Doctor_J]

53. he never set off my gaydar

can straight people like me even have gaydar? Norquist, Smirk, Luntz, and Molinari's hubby always set it off. Not dreier though.

[zulchzulu]

54. I say go for it...the gloves are OFF!

They want to play in the playground. Good. We will not stop until they quiver in fear. No more talk about Democrats NOT fighting back.

They will think about it the next time they want to be phoney Repugs.

Bring it...

[DaveSZ]

61. Out him

[rawstory]

67. the latest, from RAW STORY

Rhanks for posting this guys. looks like the story will likely go national (mediawise) on Monday, can't really say more before that because we're concerned about preemptive legal tactics.

Mike Rogers (http://blogactive.com) is going live with his additional info probably late tonight. we'll update the story at http://rawstory.com and http://bluelemur.com as additional details emerge.

And let me be perfectly clear: This man is just the tip of the iceberg. Keep your eyes on raw story in the weeks approaching the election, because Dreier and Schrock are small fish compared to the people to come.

[Uzybone]

68. Out the fucking hypocrite!

Personally I dont think anyone should lie about thier sexuality. Dem or Republican.

[bushwakker]

78. out ALL gay GOPers regardless of their voting records

part of the gop agenda is to exploit anti-gay bigotry. these people can't pick and choose when it comes to this issue. to be gay and in any way support the anti-gay party is not right - and those that do should be exposed.

[elperromagico]

70. Joe Conason in "Big Lies" talks about the GOP attacks against Tom Foley,

essentially implying that he was gay. Barney Frank threatened to start naming closeted GOP homosexuals, and suddenly the attacks stopped.

I doubt Dreier is the only one in Washington with a few secrets.

Frankly, I don't care what Dreier does in his private life or who he does it with. But I cannot understand why, if he is gay, he would support policies that would keep him forever closeted and fearing exposure. I just don't get that.

[Justitia]

82. I only believe in outing HYPOCRITES

so Dreier qualifies.

No other should have their privacy invaded, unless they are doing PUBLIC damage to PRIVATE persons, which Dreier, as a voting representative of the CA people, IS DOING.

Dreier gets what he deserves.