HuffPost: "Clinton Camp Fabricated Initial Obama "Offer"

[AtomicKitten]

There was much discussion today on DU specifically about whether or not a formal offer was ever made to Hillary Clinton for SoS. I found this on Huffington Post and hopefully this will clarify.

Report: Clinton Camp Fabricated Initial Obama "Offer"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/25/report-clinton-camp-fabri_n_146489.html

The Huffington Post | November 25, 2008

In the New York Review of Books, Elizabeth Drew sheds some more light on the behind-the-scenes wrangling between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama over the Secretary of State post: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22170

Obama's meetings with Hillary Clinton and John McCain about playing important roles in his presidency indicated his imagination and his shrewdness, although sources close to Obama say he did not offer her the job of secretary of state when they met. He had said during the campaign that he wanted various views in his government, and in turning to his own former competitors, Obama was at the same time magnanimous and seeking to keep them close. Both were in a position to cause him difficulty in the Senate--Clinton, in particular, had kept her constituency intact (through HillPAC) and was planning her own Senate agenda, including her own health care program, no matter what Obama proposed. But Clinton lacks the seniority, and therefore a committee position from which to get her proposals taken up by the Senate. (She tried to get a special subcommittee appointed, but Edward M. Kennedy, who has his own health care plan and is chairman of the committee with jurisdiction over the issue, blocked her, offering her later a role concerning health insurance.) McCain had indicated that he wanted to help Obama in the Senate, and by taking him up on it, Obama has both flattered and coopted him.

Mrs. Clinton's and her closest advisers' turning a suggestion by the President-elect that she might, among other things, head the State Department into an "offer" and reports that she was agonizing over whether to accept it, did not please officials in Chicago, some of whom hoped that issues over disclosure of Bill Clinton's post-presidential record might block the appointment. But the former president's camp blocked that by promising to cooperate with requests for information and to accept limits on his activities, including clearance of speaking engagements abroad. Statements by the Hilary camp on November 21 saying that "she's ready" for the position but then backtracking, saying that some matters were "under discussion," typified the whole mess, the only snag thus far in an otherwise unusually smooth transition involving impressive choices--an object lesson to Obama (which he had reason to know already) that getting involved with the Clintons is rarely uncomplicated.

[babylonsister]

1. OK, so, who is winning this? I'm happy it's not determined, or is it? nt

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jrockford]

17. Couldn't care less what the HRC supporters "can take", that really

shouldn't be what this is decided upon.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LaydeeBug]

67. The primaries are over. Get over it. nt

[mkultra]

78. yes, hurry up and heal the divide.

[LaydeeBug]

79. If HRC and B(h)O can, we should at least try. Thanks. nt

[mkultra]

161. wow, even emphasizing the hussien like freeps and everything

your a class act hillary person.

[Beacool]

74. Your hatred is noted, now back to reality.

Besides, Biden also voted for the war, in case you have forgotten.

Some of you are the exact opposite side of the coin of a Freeper and, like them, deserve nothing more than derision.

:rofl:

[PassingFair]

104. and he wasn't ELECTED as Vice President.

Just as Clinton was not.

If we have a CHOICE, we are going to
vote for the representatives that did
NOT authorize the rape of Iraq.

[JeanGrey]

76. Of course that is ridiculous. Hillary will of COURSE be talking

to other leaders, and how fast do you think she'll decide she's the one calling the shots? This makes my head hurt. I can't believe Obama fell for this and frankly it concerns me.

[JVS]

3. Duh! Tell us something we don't know.

[AtomicKitten]

4. it's a link for the nonbelievers here that insisted otherwise

[JVS]

9. I know. I didn't mean my comment as a knock at you. I was just joking that it was pretty damned...

obvious from the beginning. It's like Lenin said, you know, you just look for who stands to benefit... and...uhh

[AtomicKitten]

12. apparently and amazingly still not to some

nighty-night

:hi:

[emilyg]

23. If Drew says it's so - I believe ...not.

[joshcryer]

26. You honestly think he was forced to make one of the most powerful decisions in his Elect period?

Honestly now? If you think that I have a bridge to sell you!

[BlooInBloo]

34. Then: "If Obama doesn't do This And Such And Bluster Drool, then we'll take our 18 brazillion...

voters and go... do something else!"

Now: "Nobody could EVER force Obama to do anything! The very idea is UNTHINKABLE you fools!"


My my, how times have changed, eh?

[JVS]

36. LOL.

You know the score

[BlooInBloo]

41. It's really weird. Do they TRULY not remember all of this?

Or are they just praying that nobody else DOES?

I really don't get why they say these things.

It's like the youtube Obama impersonator:
"I knew it was in the bag... I just didn't expect him to actually HAND me the bag."

[LaydeeBug]

66. Do you TRULY know the primaries are over? Obama made the offer, get over it. nt

[CoffeeCat]

101. Please show me where Obama made the offer????

All of the leaks have come from the Clinton camp.

Now, we're hearing that he never offered it to her in the first place.

The point is...we don't know what's gone on behind the scenes.

So.......I've real curious about why you're just so sure that "Obama made the offer."

Please show us video of Obama saying this or show us a direct quote.

I've NEVER heard this.

[AtomicKitten]

107. He didn't. She is just trying to box him in vis a vis leaks. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

115. That's exactly what she's doing...

...and I have to ask---who plays this way? How on earth does Hillary
plan to work with President Obama, after behaving this way?

It frickin boggles the mind.

[LaydeeBug]

139. Actually, my friend, god luck with that. Obama's communications staff is flawless...if there were

a denial to be made, it would have already been made.

[CoffeeCat]

156. I don't think so...

If this SOS situation is truly being played out as HuffPo and other reports
are suggesting--than a denial would be a really, really bad move.

These articles suggest that Obama never made the SOS offer to Hillary--and Hillary
has been saying so (lying) in order to manipulate Obama into giving her the job.
All of the leaks, all of the suggesting that Hillary is taking the job, etc--have all
been Clinton fabrications.

If that's true--Hillary wants this job. She wants it bad--so bad that she's demanding
it and doing anything to get it---even going around President Obama.

That's freaking batshit crazy. You don't simply "deny" in these situations.

If Obama "denied" as you suggested, then he would be telling the entire nation
that Hillary Clinton is a crazy liar. Oh right. Obama's going to risk pissing
off the entire DLC, Hillary's camp and the Clinton's themselves? Not if he
can avoid it! ...not a great way to start out your Presidency.

You negotiate. You treat these people like lunatics with hand grenades. You try
to work something out, without more crazy rearing its ugly head.

Deny....ha!

[AtomicKitten]

166. lunatics with hand grenades

Good visual. The Clintons are just too colorful for me. I've grown tired of their theater. Obama has work to do and she's jerking him around, again. The weird thing is that anything could happen. The job hasn't been formally offered yet and more than one person is being considered. The leaks are painting an illusion. Obama's camp was airtight for 1-1/2 years. The math is pretty damn simple on that mess.

[Zhade]

145. He has made no such offer.

Stop lying to yourself, it's unhealthy.

[Zhade]

144. Are you kidding? They wouldn't even admit that video evidence proved clinton lied about Tuzla!

NT!

[SwampG8r]

167. the ability of a clinton supporter

to dodge facts and rewrite history is mindboggling
and the rationalization of bad behaviour is equally amazing

[AtomicKitten]

183. the revision of history as it happens is a preemptive strike at the truth

We can't even get current events straight here at DU because some people refuse to believe anything that differs from the Clinton movie playing in their head.

[leftynyc]

51. You honestly think that

Obama couldn't squash a rumor?!! Why on earth would you think he was so weak?

[Zhade]

143. ZING! I like the way you delivered that pwnage.

NT!

[joshcryer]

215. Stop with the useless primary bullshit.

Everyone who knows me knows I called it for Obama on Super Tuesday. Everyone knows this. I made a thread that got hundreds of replies. I have PMs from Hillary supporters wishing I wasn't saying it or hoping otherwise. So STFU and get your head out of your ass.

[CoffeeCat]

100. Obama hasn't made the decision YET!

That's the entire point.

All of the malarkey we've been hearing about Hillary-as-SOS has been leaks
coming from the Hillary camp. They're attempting to get inside the circle.

There is absolutely no evidence that Obama has asked Hillary to be SOS.

NONE.

[AtomicKitten]

108. yep

[SoCalDem]

193. Regardless of "how" it happened or may happen, Obama is still the "boss".

I suspect that he is a pretty savvy guy.. It took a LOT to defeat the slime machine that worked overtime..primaries and general.

If she "wrangled" that position, she may THINK she's put one over on him..but she goes NOWHERE without his say-so...and her effectiveness as a Sec of State depends on HIM.. He can replace her..she cannot replace him:)

Her tenure at state is a feather in her cap..a consolation prize..but if she bucks him, he'll give her the boot..

Who knows.. she may still be looking at running for governor, and this is another stepping stone, like the senate was for her presidential run..

only time will tell..but Obama's a smart guy..and a Chicago politician.. they play rough..

[laugle]

5. Who's Elizabeth Drew--was she a fly on the wall?? LOL nt

[AtomicKitten]

6. 1st step in Clinton defense: impugn the source .... check

[laugle]

8. Sorry...just seen you do better than that! You use to be

a master at that..............those were the days..................

[AtomicKitten]

10. 2nd step in Clinton defense: make it personal ...... check

[JVS]

13. I'm surprised that calling you a hater isn't one of the first steps.

I'm sure it will happen eventually.

[AtomicKitten]

14. post #11: hostility

[laugle]

15. You use to have a sense of humor, I give up!

Oh god that was personal too.......

Were all just human after all, even you!

That said, who's Elizabeth Drew?

[paulk]

65. she wrote "Citizen McCain"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13541.html

[jrockford]

16. Hahahahaha - quite, quite! nt

[seaglass]

99. As opposed to you who will believe anyone as long as it fits

into your agenda. So WAS she in the room? If not, who were her sources? Did those sources have direct knowledge of all conversations between Clinton and Obama? Waiting...

There is nothing wrong with determining if any author has an agenda before taking his/her words as gospel truth, nor is it unreasonable to withhold belief when sources are not named. Especially if you are unfamilar with the author. I assume you use some criteria for judging truth other than that you agree with it.

This article is the same as any unsourced comments made in the MSM, may be true may not be true - it would help to determine the truth of it if the author had named ANY sources.

[Vattel]

128. well-said

[AtomicKitten]

182. Drew is a reputable author and there is no reason to disbelieve her (except not wanting to believe)

Works both ways.

[elleng]

18. WHO is Elizabeth Drew?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Drew

http://www.nybooks.com/authors/7333

[laugle]

20. Thanks..............appreciate that! nt

[elleng]

24. You're welcome.

I wanted to share because she's one of the best,imo, and thought people here should be aware of her experience.

[emilyg]

22. Splat.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. why am I not surprised. i think Obama should appoint Hill then fire her in 3 months.

Buh bye!

[faithfulcitizen]

70. ooooooh, that would be fun.

j/k :)

[Sidney J Mussburger]

11. This link really clarifies it.

Not. You gotta be fucking joking right? You're linking the 'New York Review of Books'? What the fuck is that? You're a joke.

[AtomicKitten]

21. 3rd step in Clinton defense: hostility ..... check

[Sidney J Mussburger]

27. I don't even like the Clinton's

but I know a jerkoff, flamebait, baseless OP when I see one. Try Again kitty

[blue_onyx]

103. Don't worry...this person used the same crap on me in another thread.

[AtomicKitten]

105. You are entitled to disagree with the article I posted from HuffPost but

you are not entitled to turn it into a personal attack against me. That kind of behavior is not only boorish, it is against DU rules.

[Darth_Kitten]

63. General Primaries are over......check.......move on......check.............

hint, hint??

[AtomicKitten]

106. Clinton is imposing her ambition on the Obama presidency. She hasn't moved on.

and clearly neither have many of you. This unhealthy symbiosis with the Clintons prevails.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

192. she can be sent to timbucktoo and do nothing about it

THe SOS works at the bidding of the Pres.

He can send her to the North Pole.

[cboy4]

52. LOL

:D

[joshcryer]

25. Complete and utter rumor.

No source at all except for someone anonymous "close to Obama." I'd rather believe the other leaks which show that Obama is strong with character, not this characterization that makes him out to be quite weak.

[Zhade]

147. Yes, it is a complete and utter rumor that Obama has offered her the post.

Good to see you're paying attention!

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

29. Words of wisdom.

[joshcryer]

31. In what alternate delusional universe is this the most likely scenario?

Obama being forced to pick someone because of some bullshit media speculation? Obama actually taking the inconsequential talking heads' to heart? Seriously? Do you know how weak he'd look? Next you're going to say that all of the "Clinton people" are in fact Hillary and Bill pulling strings and puppeteering Obama from the dark corners of the White House! It's ludicrious!


The initial reports said that Obama believed she would be the top, first, pick for the position. The reports have not changed since then except for this report here.

As I suspected initially the meeting was about the vetting process, and clearly Hillary gave the Obama transition team everything they wanted, otherwise she would not be getting the SoS position.

When Obama is asked, no doubt in some future interview, why he picked Hillary, he will say she was his first choice, not that she forced his hand and that rumors were thrown out there and he had no choice.

He's not that weak. To spread any rumors otherwise suggests that he really is indeed the Left-Bush. Disgusting.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darth_Kitten]

61. Not this pathetic, laughable, bring out the race card crap again?

WAHHHH!!!!!!!!

[LaydeeBug]

71. It seems to be all he's got. nt

[Lord Helmet]

142. I don't think the Clintons playing the race card was funny at all.

In fact it sucked.

[atimetocome]

177. They did not play the race card.

[SwampG8r]

168. if she was top first pick...

then why did he meet with richardson(without leaks btw)the day before about the SoS job?

[LaydeeBug]

68. and supporters of utter rumors need to realize the primaries are over and get over it. nt

[Whisp]

184. Hillary wasn't seeking SoS office in the primaries...

so your comment makes no sense at all.

unless you mean, because she got her ass kicked so hard and embarrassed herself so bad during the campaign that Anything that is questioned aobut her long after the primary is still about the 'primaries' just to avoid talking about present day clinton manouevers.

well that makes a whole lot of sense like much of the other stuff when it involves the Tuzla Goddess of Peace.

[Beacool]

77. Backstabbing?

Oh, you must mean Richardson. I agree with you on that point.

:eyes:

[JVS]

85. Can't you stop your Richardson hate? It's over!

[Beacool]

98. There are certain things that are never over.

:-)

[Cosmic Charlie]

152. like the Clinton Lust for Power?

or their supporters ability to overlook what's staring them right in the face?

[Beacool]

187. Or the Clinton hatred by a few malcontents?

:shrug:

[karynnj]

92. To use the favorite words of some Clinton supporters,, "Get over it!"

Richardson had every right in the world to endorse whoever he wanted. The fact was that at the point he endorsed, there was very little chance that HRC, who started with every Ace in the deck, was highly unlikely to get more regular delegates. This was actually probable right after superTuesday, when the Clinton team put out the trial balloon that supper delegates could go with someone who didn't win the regular delegates and they and their allies spoke of the "popular vote", which makes no sense in the primary process. You are adding apples and oranges - and there was the ultimate in chutzpah of not counting a few caucus states at all, becaus ethey had no official "vote" count. Apparently, rules for Clintons are not the rules every other politician followed and never thought to change - especially not when they were losing.

His endorsement was essentially telling the Clintons it was over.

[Beacool]

97. His endorsement was a betrayal of a friendship.

If he had been upfront about it with Bill and acted like a man, then it would have been a different story. Instead, he repeatedly said one thing to Bill while calling Obama and telling him that he was endorsing him after he returned from vacation. He didn't take Bill's calls nor bother to call him before the announcement was made public (he called Hillary). He was not just a colleague, he was a friend, you don't treat friends in such poor manner. I don't know about you, but I would also hold a grudge if a friend did that to me.

:-(

[karynnj]

111. His story was different - he said that he never told Bill what Bill said

I really don't know who - if either - is lying. It might be hearing what you want to hear. I think it was right to call Hillary - she was the one running. As to not taking Bill's calls - all stories say Clinton was twisting arms then. I assume many were really tired of it.

In addition, I don't know if Richardson was a "friend". He worked for Bill. The Clintons themselves have been known to abandon friends when they are inconvenient.

[AtomicKitten]

114. good analysis

[Zhade]

148. Uh, I'm going to go with the proven liar being the one who lied.

That would be clinton.

Both of them, actually.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radical Activist]

38. I wonder if Obama can still back out of it. They've never confirmed it to the press.

The only source that an offer was made or accepted is an unnamed Clinton adviser.

[BlooInBloo]

42. Um, he's the President. He can ALWAYS back out of it.

[Unbowed]

47. You're right. He doesn't even have to back out. Nothing has been confirmed.

Obama hasn't said a word about his SoS pick, all the rumors, leaks and so-called "inside information" is all we have had to go on so far. And notice how it has been very, very quiet lately.

[Mojorabbit]

91. It would be awkward

especially now when he is trying to do everything perfectly to inspire confidence in his ability to handle the financial crisis. It would be a distraction in the media he does not need. Still politics is a blood sport and it would not surprise me if it is true. It is up to him to handle it as he will.

[polichick]

127. It would be awkward only for the talking heads and leakers - not for Obama.

[Mojorabbit]

135. Perception is everything

right now. It would be awkward because it would eclipse the message he wants to get out. It would be a nonstop circus in the media.

[polichick]

136. He's so good with words; I think he could put an end to it with...

...one finely crafted sentence ~ if he wants to.

[Mojorabbit]

173. I don't think it would be that easy

after all a high percentage of the country still believes he is Muslim despite what he has said and a socialist too. The last thing he needs is a distraction in the media.

[polichick]

126. Just like veep - people kept saying he couldn't back out of choosing Hillary then too...

The guy had never walked into it in the first place!

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radical Activist]

172. Good question

A lot of other deletes in this thread.

[WildEyedLiberal]

170. delete dupe

[tandem5]

32. Funny, I floated a rumor that I won the lottery

I can't possibly see how the lottery commission can refuse to give me money now - It's such a plausible and rewarding strategy!

[Radical Activist]

35. I knew it.

That's what my locked thread was getting at. I hope he never made or makes an offer. Obama has never confirmed the appointment even though they've named other choices since Clinton announced through the New York Times that she accepted the "offer." This is ridiculous.

[JVS]

37. Unity Ticket redux

[Radical Activist]

39. Yep. Different day

Same shit.

[JVS]

40. May the result be the same.

[Cosmic Charlie]

146. by Grace alone. Keep praying, I am.

[dkf]

43. Vindication.

I look forward to the day he fires her ass. She's the unwelcome guest who simply refuses to leave. Wasn't there an SNL skit about trying to get her off the stage? Or was that about Bill.

[moondust]

44. As suspected.

Backed by the drama-hungry MSM, most anything is possible. :eyes:

[Enrique]

45. Obama could divorce Michelle and marry Hillary

and the media would still try stirring up shit between them.

[Lady-Damai]

Ewwww......

:puke: :puke::puke: :puke::puke: :puke: :puke: :puke::puke: :puke::puke: :puke::puke: :puke::puke: :puke:

[Lucky 13]

96. I second that emotion.

:puke:

[polichick]

46. Didn't they try to railroad him into choosing her as veep too??

If this is true, he'd be foolish to go along with it.

[JVS]

48. Now even if he wanted her, picking her would look like he caved.

[polichick]

49. Exactly - which is what we all said about veep. Sometimes his...

...magnanimity goes too far imo.

[leftynyc]

50. I see the media misses the drama

The implication that our new President is too weak to squash a rumor is downright insulting.

[cboy4]

53. Another flame bait post from a usual suspect.

Tragic.

[Thrill]

54. Sounds like this article is Fabricated

[S_E_Fudd]

55. So Obama is so weak willed and stupid that he lets Hillary walk all over him...

Of all the moronic shit published over at HuffPost...this takes the cake...

What's next ? Hillary lost the election on purpose cause she really wanted to be Secretary of State...

[Mass]

56. Elizabeth Drew, McCain's big pal, is telling us that Obama is weak?

While I would have no problems to believe that from some Clinton's advisers (and it was my initial feeling), why would have Obama let this play, if he was not considering her seriously. I am confused here. I know it does not take a PhD in psychology to see some of Obama's top advisers are not excited about the news (just listen to them), but still, what would be the point of letting the media create this mess if there was not some truth. How is it better to let them say "We could not resist Hillary" rather than "Hillary's people are stretching the truth"?

I see this article as the way a reporter who has been for years a big McCain supporter is trying to get back both at Hillary and Obama.

[CoffeeCat]

102. I think Obama had his own plan...

Obama met with Richardson. We heard NOTHING about that meeting. No leaks.

Then, Obama meets with Hillary. And we have non-stop drama, leaks, and all sorts of
gossip. Obama's camp does not leak. All of that news, generated during the week after
the Obama/Hillary meeting, came from the Clinton camp. It was designed to pressure Obama
into giving Hillary the job she wanted.

Obama DID try to push back. Their camp noted that Bill Clinton's business dealings
were a problem. Obama used this same meme when he picked a VP. The Obama camp leaked
out that Bill's secret donor list and other activities were problematic. The public
bought it and everyone moved on after Obama picked Biden.

I think Obama thought he could throw up the "Bill is a problem" meme, and that would end
it. However, the Clintons returned the volley forcefully with Bill saying, "I'll do anything
to make this happen for Hillary."

The Clinton camp started all of this with their PR campaign--Obama probably thought he could
re-play his VP-selection tactics, but it appears that the Clintons aren't letting up.

Obama will figure it out. Hillary will not be SOS. After all of these shenanigans, I can't
imagine Obama allowing it. Can you imagine what Michelle says? Holy buckets.

[polichick]

130. It really would be amazing for him to choose someone whose...

...camp is a pain in the ass before the ink is even wet!

[CoffeeCat]

157. pain in the ass...and then some--

I know this is political wrangling.

Hillary is realizing that she doesn't have a lot of power as a Senator.
That must hurt, especially after believing for two years that you would
be President of the United States.

However, this is just so over the top. How in the world would she
work with Obama, after lying about the fact that he offered her the
SOS job and then spending a week making things up and leaking them
to the media--just to manipulate Obama into giving her the SOS job?

I don't even know how two people could have any sort of relationship
after that--especially when Hillary would be "serving at the pleasure
of the President."

It's freaky.

[Cosmic Charlie]

149. from your lips to God's ears

How is it that so many of us knew that this was exactly what was going on the day that this Circus blew back into town?

Please, Obama, cut these manipulators off at the knees, and do it in public so that all may learn from it.

[CoffeeCat]

158. I'm glad others could see it...

I knew when the leaks began--that it was the Clintons trying to bully
their way into the job.

When Andrea Mitchell announced that Obama people had leaked to her that
Hillary had the SOS job if she wanted it, I knew that was bunk.

The Obama camp didn't leak for two years. But we're supposed to believe
that his tightly run ship started leaking now?

No. It was clearly the Clintons.

They're games are getting really old.

You're right...it's a "circus." We all know Obama. He isn't playing this nonsense.

It will be interesting to see how he maneuvers around the Clintons.

I'm sure they'll spend the rest of their lives trying to destroy Obama--for not picking Hillary as SOS.

OH WELL. :eyes:

[niceypoo]

57. Anyone gullible enough to believe this crap

needs their head examined.

[burythehatchet]

58. Yes, because it is so completely unbelieveable that Hillary Clinton would make shit up.

A fucking walking soap opera.

[Hieronymus]

90. Yes, like her tale of dodging bullets at that airport. Noooo, she'd

never make stuff up. :sarcasm: :blush:

[AtomicKitten]

116. Some here steadfastly denied this, claiming we just couldn't hear the gunfire on the video.

I am constantly amazed at the depth of denial here at DU.

[Hieronymus]

118. Amazing .. I hadn't heard that excuse. I suppose the crowd, with children,

didn't hear the gunfire either.

[Zhade]

151. AWESOME. Thank you for remembering her lies about Tuzla.

Video evidence proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that she lied, and some people STILL can't accept it.

[AtomicKitten]

165. it's surreal - revisionist history is on a 10-second delay here

we can't even get current events straight around here

[atimetocome]

59. Huff Post loves to start and spread rumors.

[polichick]

110. Why would it be hard to believe - the same thing happened with veep...

...until the Clinton camp realized they were hurting their cause.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

60. See, this is what I'm talking about. DRAMA!!! DRAMA!!! DRAMA!!!

If Obama chooses her it will be his greatest mistake.

[agent007]

62. The article is based on anonymous sources

Mr. Anonymous is not reliable.

[Zhade]

154. Oh, but the anonymous sources that say he offered her the job are okay?

:rofl:

Pathetic. You can't have it both ways.

[Tom Rinaldo]

64. Chill. It's gonna be fine

Obama is President. It's his foreign policy Clinton will pursue. Hillary Clinton is a very bright and hard working women who has excellent international connections. She is in politics ultimately for the same reason that Obama is, to better our nation and the world. Hillary has never been one to blow up Democratic Party leadership and initiatives with infra Party fighting and drama. Good old Ted Kennedy is the one who did that, remember? Hillary Clinton, for better or worse, was a team player in the Senate. She does not want the world to become more dangerous and she does not want her legacy to be "drama in the White House". She wants her legacy to be having been a brilliant Secretary of State for a brilliant President, who together made the world safer and a little bit more just. No one works harder than Hillaryt, she will serve Barack well.

[mtnsnake]

69. Thank goodness few people believe a "Report" that has zero evidence to back it up

It's amazing that crap like this gets eaten up by the naive among us.

[Cosmic Charlie]

150. yet deep down you know it is correct, don't you?

[Maven]

72. Bookmarked.

[Beacool]

73. Are you EVER going to give up crapping all over Hillary???

Someone writes a piece quoting "anonymous" advisers from both camps and it's written in stone?

So, Obama should really be called "Obambi" for his naivete and Hillary is more Machiavellian than Lady Macbeth.

Hogwash!!!!!!!!

:grr:

[greguganus]

75. Anonymous source on the Greatest Page. n/t

[BootinUp]

82. lol nt

[Beausoir]

80. Empty lives.

[JohnnyLib2]

81. Embarrassing.

[yurbud]

83. great toon in your sig line

[AtomicKitten]

84. Typical fingers-in-the-ears responses from those unwilling to face the truth.

And the truth is Obama, in fact, did not offer Clinton SoS when they met. But, no worries. Saying so is half the battle, apparently. It's political manipulation. She's litigating her case in the press for the job. Leak by leak.

The truth has set us free. The rest live in a movie of the Clintons playing inside their head.

[polichick]

93. I never thought he offered it on that visit - just didn't make sense, since...

...he also met with Richardson that week ~ but do you think he's offered her the position since then?

[AtomicKitten]

94. I think she may have always been a possibility, but the leaks were intended to box him in.

Leak by leak. I think Clinton wanted to buzz the vetting process and install herself as SoS in the press. Still the Sect'y of Commerce nomination is being postponed, so it's possible Richardson is still on deck for SoS. Obama will cut through the drama soon, next week I think.

[polichick]

95. That's how I see it too...

imo the manipulation doesn't help her case when dealing with someone as self-assured as Obama.

Interesting how involved Andrea Mitchell has been ~ wonder if she regrets breaking the story.

[progressivebydesign]

86. Flame-bait much? From a Book Review site??? n/t

[AtomicKitten]

87. posted on Huffington Post .... make lame excuses for bad Clinton behavior much?

[Sparkly]

109. Hey, if someone's paraphrasing unnamed sources on a book review site, it must be true.

Even if she can't always spell "Hillary." :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

113. if you disagree, please post a link to Obama's formal offer for SoS

Oh, that's right, you can't. Because he never made one, not yet. The leaked story that he has is constructed of chewing gum and bullshit.

That's the point.

[Sparkly]

117. Who knows?

We'll know soon enough. I just tire of the constant unsubstantiated accusations against the Clintons. Hating them has become a national sport, for some.

[Zomby Woof]

88. The Huffington Post

These days, it's about as unreliable and gossip-mongering as Raw Story. :thumbsdown:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

89. That's OK.

It won't be long until they fabricate a story that she's "resigning" in order spend more time with her "family."

[political_Dem]

112. I am not surprised, really.

But what Mr. Obama must realize is that Senator Clinton is too much trouble for what it is worth. She's coming off like a live grenade with all these charges surrounding her. If he truly wants everything to be a drama free experience for him, he should put her in a federal position where she won't do much harm. Secretary of State is not such a place.

[Utnapishtim]

119. A pretty typically Clintonian stroke, really.

And here I thought we were rid of these yokels once and for all. :-(

It's not Clinton's support for the war that makes me loathe her so, though I don't respect her position on it. It's her husband's right-wing, best-Republican-President-we've-ever-had legacy that I despise. The New Democrats must be systematically broken for the Democratic Party to differentiate itself enough to thrive.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Utnapishtim]

122. It has nothing to do with rehashing the primaries.

I've hated the Clinton family for as long as I have been politically aware. They destroyed the Democratic Party in the midwest for the sake of making Bill electable in the South, which a good Democratic candidate would have been able to completely lock out by running a McKinley-1896 campaign. Read "Whistling Past Dixie" and you'll understand why.

[Metric System]

123. You hate the whole Clinton family? Chelsea too? Uh huh. Welcome to DU.

[QC]

124. What about Socks the Cat? n/t

[Utnapishtim]

125. I don't have an opinion on Chelsea, other than to say she strikes me as pretty trust-fund.

Hilary and Bill, however, would have been Republicans under Nixon, and the Party would have been better off losing in '92 and then running a Western-state liberal. Bill did get himself elected, but at the expense of the entire Party, most of its principles, and its long-term strategic positioning.

[sniffa]

121. This is a great thread

Even if half of it is ignored, it's still a great read.

[Robb]

129. LOL

Funny that, eh? :D

[JVS]

176. I really have to build a better ignore list. Any tips?

[Liquorice]

131. Well it sounds like Obama's people

are leaking damaging stories on Hillary Clinton, which leads to a few questions. 1. Why are they trying to damage Hillary Clinton? 2. Why can't Obama control the people around him and stop the leaking? 3. If this story is true, why is Obama so weak as to be bullied by Hillary Clinton?

These kinds of stories coming out of Obama's camp are very troubling. It looks like Obama is not in control of the people working for him, and/or he has a bitter faction among his group who hates Hillary Clinton and seeks to undermine Obama. They are leaking damaging stories (true or not) about Obama's potential pick for SoS to hurt Hillary Clinton, but they are also damaging Obama as well.

Obama needs to fire the leakers who are seriously undermining his choice for SoS. Of course, that is assuming these stories are coming from the Obama camp. ...but if they are not, who in the world is coming up with these crazy Clinton-hating lies?

[sniffa]

133. The "usual suspects" of course

HATERS!!!1!

[Cosmic Charlie]

138. She was not ever his choice, just a possibility. And she tried to force herself on him.

Obama needs to end all speculation on this and reject her publicly.

[Skip Intro]

153. And what sources do you have for that assertion?

The OP of this thread?

Is that all it takes?

Ever read rense.com? Lotta unsubstantiated bs there too.

[Cosmic Charlie]

155. you can deny it, but you know in your gut this is exactly what happened.

[Skip Intro]

159. No, CC, I don't. I suspect tho, that you yourself doubt it, even as you fly it like a flag. Question

Why would Obama, who is clearly working hard to be ready to hit the ground running, ask Hillary to Chicago for a meeting in which he'd only vaguely hint to Hillary that she might have an unspecified role in his admin? That doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it. Assuming you actually think about it.

[Cosmic Charlie]

162. simple. to ask her if she was willing to be vetted and considered for any position.

Then her crew took that and turned it into an hard offer of SOS,
And were then proved wrong the next day when Richardson was interviewed.

I knew this was how it went down on the day of. Just had to wait for confirmation.

Hillary took Obama's outstretched hand and bent it behind his back to try and get the position she wanted.
Utterly despicable.

[Liquorice]

164. And if Obama doesn't do as you wish and reject Hillary Clinton?

I guess you'll just continue to believe the ridiculous wacky story that Hillary forced Obama to make her his SoS. It is a crazy story and makes absolutely no sense, but some people are so sick with irrational hatred against the Clintons that they will believe anything rather than admit Obama chose Hillary Clinton as his SoS. Personally, I prefer to live in the reality-based world, and not the world of loony conspiracies.

[Vattel]

132. Not very convincing (to put it mildly).

Probably Obama has already indicated to Clinton that she is his first pick. (This doesn't mean that he has extended a formal offer to her.) That would explain the fact that he hasn't squelched rumors that Clinton will be his pick. It would also explain the fact that inside sources have claimed that Clinton is his pick. Almost certainly Obama hasn't made, nor will he make, any offer to Clinton because his arm has been twisted. He has more than enough political capital right now to choose the SOS he really wants in the face of rumors that he will pick Clinton. My educated guess is that he has picked Clinton at least partly because he thinks (rightly or wrongly) that she'll do a good job.

[QC]

134. People will eagerly believe anything that confirms their prejudices.

We are reminded of that about a hundred times a day in this forum.

[Cosmic Charlie]

137. Goddamn these people!!!

And now all of you who called us fools for saying this is exactly what Hillary was doing from the beginning can shut your mouths.

She is a Manipulator, and has no business in the Obama Administration.

If Obama allows themn to make his decision for him then all we have fought for in this election is tainted.

[Lord Helmet]

140. Clintons are bulldozers with no integrity.

:hi:

[Zhade]

141. Yeah, already knew this. Par for the course - Tuzla, anyone?

That said, I must admit to a certain amount of glee at the thought that - should he end up choosing her - she'll have to grit her teeth and follow his orders, not the other way around. Might humble her a little.

[bridgit]

160. Oh Great! So they're saying Obama can be snookered?

I hope that stays in Vegas x(

[Jakes Progress]

174. Yep. They think he is a doofus.

Anyone who thinks Obama is this stupid needs to go take the mccain signs out of their yard.

[Jim Sagle]

163. Whadda buncha shit.

[Life Long Dem]

171. Every one of these stories are made up.

All the original stories had some kind of anonymous source, including this one.

[Jakes Progress]

175. Whoa. As long as you have a real authoritative source

like HuffPo. That's almost as good as "The View" or "The Star".

[wyldwolf]

178. to paraphrase YOU from my thread: "Do you have a link where Obama did this?"

[AtomicKitten]

179. Can't prove a negative; do have a link that proves he did nominate her?

Oh that's right, you can't. Because he didn't. Maybe next week.

[wyldwolf]

180. do you have a link that proves Clinton fabricated the offer?

Oh that's right, you can't. Because she didn't.

[AtomicKitten]

181. Obama hasn't nominated anyone for SoS yet. That's a fact.

But the floor show has been spectacular.

“Given that everyone's mystified by how deliberately public the Clintons have made this once secret process, the assumption is either that the Clintons are trying to use the public buzz to steamroll their way in, create a sense of inevitability that overcomes those concerns, or that it's just a matter of time before they … satisfy vetting somehow, some way.

Otherwise, after all this speculation, there’ll be a permanent dark cloud hanging over her finances. … But generally the sense among the no-drama Obama world is: This is well on its way to winning best Oscar for drama.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7881371

[wyldwolf]

186. Clinton didn't fabricate the offer. That's a fact.

[AtomicKitten]

188. She at the very least "misunderstood" the offer because none was made in Chicago.

President-elect Barack Obama has met with his former rival Hillary Clinton, who Democratic officials have confirmed is a possible candidate to become his secretary of state.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/11/14/obama-secstate.html

Clinton met with Obama at his transition office in Chicago Thursday, Democratic officials said Friday, but the meeting was kept secret until after it was finished.

Unnamed Democratic sources have been quoted saying the two discussed the position. Clinton walked away from the meeting under the impression that it was hers for the taking, should she be interested, multiple sources told CNN.

Other sources have suggested that where she stands amongst other candidates for the job, or whether she would even accept it, isn't yet clear.

* snip *

Officials in Obama's transition office refused to comment.

Both NBC and the Washington Post reported Thursday that advisers to the New York senator said she was under consideration by Obama to replace Condoleezza Rice as the United States' top diplomat. If she took the post, Clinton would be the third woman to hold it after Rice and Madeleine Albright.

Obama also met Friday with New Mexican Gov. Bill Richardson, who is reportedly under consideration for the position of secretary of state as well. Richardson was the former ambassador to the United Nations under Hillary's husband, former U.S. president Bill Clinton. He has also done diplomatic work in his role as governor in places such as Sudan and North Korea.

Others who have been named as potential candidates for the job include 2004 presidential contender John Kerry, who was defeated by incumbent George W. Bush, and Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, who threw his weight behind Obama over McCain in the recent election.

[wyldwolf]

189. none was fabricated

[AtomicKitten]

190. Manipulative leaks of an offer never made: "Obama officials feel boxed in by Clinton leaks."

The New York Times reports that suspected leaks from the Clinton team are angering Obama aides and may threaten Hillary Clinton's position.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/13/hillary-clinton-secretary_n_143735.html

Both sides were engaged in a delicate public and private dance, maneuvering for position and reputation in case the deal falls through. Aides in each camp have grown increasingly sour toward the other in recent days as the matter played out publicly.

In their public signals, the Clintons are trying to take the former president's activities off the table as an issue, in their view eliminating any excuses for Mr. Obama not to give Mrs. Clinton the job. Some in the Obama camp are bristling at what they see as strategic leaks by the Clintons aimed at boxing in the president-elect and forcing him to offer the post.

The tension could foreshadow a complex relationship burdened by suspicion and enmity should Mrs. Clinton become secretary of state. By putting her in the cabinet, Mr. Obama could remove a potential thorn in the Senate on issues like health care and a potential rival for the nomination in 2012 if his term proves rocky. But he could also face a rival power center within his own administration with her on his team.

[wyldwolf]

191. haha. More "HuffPo," more non-sources

[AtomicKitten]

196. "Automatic disbelief is as harmful to a democracy as blind allegiance."

In your case, automatic disbelief and blind allegiance are one in the same.

[wyldwolf]

198. opinion pieces that don't even name "anonymous sources" is freeperish

[JVS]

199. naming anonymous sources would be highly unethical

[wyldwolf]

200. not naming ANY sources is dumbassery

[JVS]

201. Yes, the stories leaking Clinton as SoC choice certainly are dumbassery

[wyldwolf]

202. you just contradicted yourself

You said using anonymous sources is "unethical,"

I said not naming any sources at all is dumbassery.

You said the stories leaking clinton as SO are dumbassery. Yet, those named unnamed sources.

You can't even decide how to classify them. :rofl:

[JVS]

203. I said naming anonymous sources was unethical. You need to read closer.

And it is unethical to name anonymous sources. This information does not contradict my claim that announcing Clinton to be SoS based on anonymous sources is dumbassery.

[wyldwolf]

204. I get it. At this point you'll say anything just to hit "reply."

[JVS]

205. If a journalist were to name anonymous sources, it would be a betrayal.

On the other hand, if nobody is willing to put their name on the information they are passing out, it carries little credibility.

[wyldwolf]

206. of course, in the case of the OP's piece, it's simply dishonest rabblerousing dumbassery

[JVS]

207. No more dishonest than the HRC is SoS rabblerousing dumbassery.

[wyldwolf]

208. much more so because Drew pulled the story out of her ass

[JVS]

209. And what festering ass does the HRC is SoS come from?

[wyldwolf]

210. none.

[JVS]

211. I see a lot of people claiming the job is hers without any source

They're just pulling it from their leaky turd-cutters

[wyldwolf]

212. like who?

[JVS]

213. Wouldn't you like to know?

:rofl:

[polichick]

214. We can thank Hill's friend Andrea Mitchell for that one...

Her initial story failed to name sources ~ and was WAY premature, reporting that these sources said the job was Hillary's when Barack was also meeting with Richardson.

[Zombie2]

195. Her campaign got pretty nasty during the primaries...

I wouldn't put much past her these days.

Sorry... IT IS WHAT IT IS!? :shrug:

[AZBlue]

185. K

(I'm too late to R - and will save my other comments for another time)

[atimetocome]

194. Send Drew some flowers at the Clincal Nut Institute.

[apocalypsehow]

197. Turkey Day kick - cause I'm full, tired, and have LMAO at some of the replies in this thread while

my in-laws argue about football in the background.

:thumbsup:

:kick:

Edit: too late to Rec, but would if I could.