On Meet The Press we hear that Hispanic supporters of Obama

[dsc]

lobbied hard for a Hispanic to get a major cabinet slot, and then we see Richardson in a beefed up Commerence. Gee, that sounds an awful lot like what I was suggesting for gays and got called a defender of Bush style cronyism. Unlike some of you, I will not be a hypocrite. I am glad Hispanics stepped up and prevented Obama from making a huge mistake. Richardson will do well as Commerence Secretary and good for him and Hispanics. It will be interesting to see if the most qualified, anti cronyism crowd, will be as outraged over this as they were over my suggestion of holding one slot open for a qualified gay. On edit It was Mr. Tood of Hotwire who claimed to have heard it from supporters of Obama.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. My friend, I thought they had a gay person already named for the cabinet or staff?

Maybe I'm just imagining it or something.

[dsc]

3. There are some gays on his transition staff

Roberta Actenberg is on his transition staff and likely our only shot at having an out gay cabinet member (she was deputy director of HUD under Clinton) and would be qualified to be HUD Secretary now.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. Ok good! - tho I'm not gay I hope there will be some more put in. nt

[Barack_America]

19. I think this post answers my question below.

If she's the right woman for the job, I hope she gets it.

[deadmessengers]

4. Well, there is Janet Napolitano...

just sayin'

[dsc]

9. who denies she is gay

and I assume she is telling the truth, but even if she isn't, that wouldn't be an openly gay cabinet member.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. Yeah well, did you know Charlie Crist, the gov of my state, is gay and denies it?

LOTS of gays are still in the closet. I work at a law firm where (I kid you not) out of 25 partners, like 7 are gay and only 1 is out? I think a lot of gay folks are still not out. You can't get angry with them tho. Give them time I say. I'm not gay so I have no idea how difficult or easy it is to come out, but I'm guessing it's not easy?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. Cool! nt

[Celeborn Skywalker]

2. There should

be a qualified gay person in one of the cabinet slots. Other than Jews and Blacks, gay people voted in the largest numbers for Barack Obama.

[ecstatic]

5. You think hispanics forced Obama's hand

I suspect Richardson was going to be his pick anyway. I could be wrong.

[Bonobo]

6. If it was a gay Hispanic, would that count as gay, Hispanic or both?

The thing I don't understand, is why does being gay define one's identity?
Gay people are the same as everyone else. It is a matter of sexual preference, right?
So why would you single out one aspect of a person (their sexuality) and then use that as the basis for picking someone?

[ruggerson]

14. try to use the word "orientation"

"preference" implies choice in the matter.

[Bonobo]

17. Understood. I certainly will in the future.

[dsc]

15. so it is Ok for Hispanics but not for us

I would count the hypothetical appointee as both. But to your central point, being gay is different. Only gays know what it is like to be gay. Only we know what it is like to either tell our parents we are gay facing losing their love or not telling them and hiding a huge portion of their lives from their parents to just give one aspect.

[Bonobo]

21. Only women know what it is like to be a woman. Same for Hispanics, Asians,

Short people, tall people, fat people, people with warts, people with red splotches on their face, etc.

So what is different?

[dsc]

24. which is why

I think Obama should look for qualified people who happen to be women, Hispanic, Asian, black, and yes gay. Unlike you, who apparently have no problems with him doing this for Hispanics but do have one with him doing this for gays.

[BlooInBloo]

60. Yup. So obviously we should have anarchy. Because people are just OH-SO inscrutable...

and SOOOOO hard to understand!

Oh wait - that's complete and utter bullshit.

[cali]

43. Richardson was going to get a cabinet position no matter what

His being hispanic is likely the least of it. Consider this: He has just about the best resume in the country. He was an early(ish) supporter of Obama and a high profile one who bucked the Clintons to do so.

I'm a firm believer that we all have more in common than that which separates us, and sorry, I believe that wrapping yourself up too tightly in one aspect of your humanity is a mistake. You're human before you're gay or black or a woman or disabled or latino or asian-american or whatever.

I'll be happy to see a diverse staff and cabinet. I still think your insistence that their be payback for the gay vote in the form of a cabinet position is an example of old rigid thinking.

Hey, is there a Jewish cabinet member yet? Didn't they vote for Obama in even higher numbers than the GLBT community?

[dsc]

44. His very first appointment was a Jewish man

well second if you count VP. Rahm Emmanuel is a Jewish man. My point is that it isn't a diverse cabinet at least not totally. The simple fact is I was dead on, and I also notice you didn't take my bet. There will be no gays in this cabinet but every single other group will be represented. And in two cases, Richardson at Commerence and whomever the GOPer ends up being, we will have people who were picked for reasons other than solely being best for the job. Richardson should have gotten state, but it is ludricrious to suggest he is the most qualified human for Commerence.

[alwysdrunk]

51. You think Rahm wouldn't have got it if he wasn't Jewish?

You think Obama said "Alllllright, first off, gotagettajew". I really don't think this is how he chose his chief of staff. Same thing for Richardson. Richardson is one of the most experienced and qaulified Democrats in the country, if he was white you think he wouldn't be on the team?

[dsc]

52. that isn't my point

and you well know it. You claimed, wrongly, that Jews had also been left off his cabinet or equivalent appointments. The simple fact is not one single, solitary openly gay man or women has even been mentioned as a finalist for any cabinet level or equivalent post. Not one. It is hard to escape the idea that evidently nearly no heterosexual democrats give a hoot about that. Try to imagine that say Hillary had appointed a cabinet with not one single solitary African American even being considered. Literally unimaginable.

[alwysdrunk]

53. No open GBLT is barely mentioned at all

You're right, I haven't heard of any as possibles. But then again apart from Barney Frank I don't hear any openly gay Democrats mentioned among the senior leadership in the party. Apart from Gietner, I'd heard of all of the cabinet before.

How represented are gays in the Federal government at all? Less than blacks I imagine, maybe more than Hispanics though. Adding being open to the equation probably makes the number very small.

[BlooInBloo]

59. Because one starts the canvas with The White Male (aka "normal").....

If all you do the achieve the end result is *add* stuff (say gay), then that's how you're identified. Identification is in terms of "distance from normal" (i.e. white male).

I didn't write the rules, but I know how to read.

[EFerrari]

7. People seem not to understand that affirmative action isn't cronyism

or discrimination but a counter to both, to systemic exclusion.

[grantcart]

8. Does the demand include closeted gays or only openly gay people?

[Barack_America]

12. Please name for me an openly gay person on stature with Clinton, Richardson and Napolitano...

Obama has only selected big names thus far and, as a result, it's not just gays who have been left out.

And I disagree that Richardson's selection shows that Obama is willing to play identity politics. Richardson has ridiculous experience in many areas and was a key supporter as well. It was inevitable that he would be offered a Cabinet position, and being Hispanic had nothing to do with it.

[ruggerson]

18. Well there's a can of worms right there

it can be argued that rank homophobia is what prevents Napolitano from coming out.

[Barack_America]

34. Possibly. And it certainly exists.

But I take Napolitano's word on this. In her case, it would be exceptionally sad if she were closeted, as I believe she has stated support for a gay marriage ban. It would be tragic if she felt she needed to go that far to hide her sexuality (though I'm certain she wouldn't be the only politician doing so).

I'm interested in the HUD candidate that dsc mentioned. It sounds like she is supremely qualified along the lines of what Obama has been looking for with his Cabinet. I hope she gets the spot. If she's passed up I may even raise my eyebrows.

[stray cat]

39. I'm sure thats what kept Bush from coming out....

Napolitano is a liar who is closeted because she is a single female?

[ruggerson]

41. maybe she's closeted because people are so irrational about gays and lesbians

If memory serves, Janet Reno never came out either. It is widely known in Florida that she has lived with her partner there for many years.

[deadmessengers]

20. Barney Frank. n/t

[Barack_America]

25. For?

Treasury? Commerce?

If it weren't for the financial crisis, making the idea of shaking up the Banking Committee a bad idea, I'd hope he'd be considered.

[deadmessengers]

32. "an openly gay person on the stature of..." n/t

[Barack_America]

35. With zero chance of being removed from the House right now.

Perhaps I should have clarified my question. I wasn't asking for just any openly gay person that was well-known enough to serve on the Cabinet, I was asking for serious candidates Obama has to select from. Frank's position on the Banking Committee precluded him from being chosen for a Cabinet post this time, IMO.

[dsc]

22. So Mr. Tood is an outright liar?

He was unambiguous. Hispanics were angry they didn't get a top tier cabinet post and then Richardson got a beefed up Commerence. As to your other point, I am not asking for one of the huge cabinet spots but simply a cabinet spot. The mayor of Providence RI is openly gay and has the exact same level of experience that Ciscernos had before getting HUD. Actenburg was Deputy Sec of HUD under Clinton and could easily be HUD Secretary. Barney Frank would have been great at Treasury.

[Barack_America]

28. That Hispanics demanded it and it subsequently happened...

Does not mean that the Hispanics demanding it MADE it happen.

If that were the case, the progressives that did a lot more than the Hispanics in getting Obama elected, would've been able to stop Hillary's nomination dead in its tracks. And that certainly didn't happen.

[davidpdx]

69. I agree with you Kristi

Anyone who thinks Richardson wasn't going to get a cabinet spot already is just fooling themselves. This is pure and simple shit stirring by a few people who are trying to cause trouble. If people want to accuse Obama of not playing favorites to one group and doing so for another, that's exactly what it is. He hasn't even taken office yet and groups on the left are attacking him. So much for being a "team". Remember these are the same people that accused Obama of being sexist.

[ruggerson]

13. Big double standard for gays and lesbians

it's alive and well right here too, amongst a certain crowd.

[donco6]

23. Frankly, I'd be happy with just a strong support of some important

legislation favoring GLBT. And I would even care if it was just T, for example. They've been getting a short shrift for some time. Cabinet post? That would be nice, but there are only so many, and I'd really rather have the best qualified person in there, unless they both happen to come in the same package.

Convince me I'm wrong. I haven't dived into this topic because the water's been far too hot.

[Egnever]

26. You telling me you buy into everything you hear on meet the press?

or you just using it to stir up shit?

[dsc]

29. Todd would have to be out and out lying

This wasn't one of these a source said. He claimed several sources and was very direct. I do think he isn't out and out lying.

[Egnever]

37. Hes spouting whatever crap comes into his head or sounds good.

what have you seen Obama pressured into doing so far? Can you name me anything? Cause so far from what I have seen he has done what he thought was right from the get go and damn the consequences. Richardson broke with Clinton at a key point in the primaries. Something he didn't do lightly and and something he was heavily vilified for by many. You don't think he earned his position? You honestly believe he was offered a position cause the latinos pressured Obama?

LOL what a load of Dooky!

[dsc]

40. If it had been state you would be right

But commerence? He has nothing on his resume that leads one to pick him above all comers there. I think the beefed up Commerence position is likely a direct result of that pressure.

[ruggerson]

42. Listen buddy

I tried to have a respectful conversation with you last night.

But I started thinking about your use of the term "McLurkin Jerkin" and I realized how incredibly offensive both it and you are.

Proposition 8 pretty much confirmed EVERYTHING we were all expressing back then, and history now shows that tolerating gay baiting leads directly to the support of anti civil rights legislation. We were right, you were wrong.

dsc is not stirring shit any more than I was. He's concerned about advancing human rights.

You need to step back and can it with accusing everyone but yourself of flamebait.

And I say this as someone who is very happy with Obama's cabinet selections and someone who doesn't mind waiting a year until he organizes the necessary support behind the scenes to repeal DADT. He has my full backing.

You don't.

[dsc]

45. thanks

I hadn't seen the McClerkin Jerkin comment. I am willing to give him some time but I am rapidly loosing patience. As far as I can tell openly gay people weren't even considered.

[kevinds13]

27. So Bill Richardson was not in consideration

for any Cabinet post until the big, bad, mysterious Hispanic lobby got him the job?

:eyes:

[dsc]

31. The word was major Cabinet slot

not any cabinet slot.

[kevinds13]

33. Ok...

So did you miss all the reports of him being considered for Secretary of State? If it weren't for Clinton, the job was his. How is the #3 spot in the Federal Government "any cabinet slot."

It's not. It's THE Cabinet spot.

Richardson didn't get any help from some mysterious hispanic lobby because he didn't need the help, he had a cushy job lined up based on his resume, not his skin color, sexual orientation, place of origin, etc. Obama is picking those most qualified, and I truly believe an openly homosexual politico will get a slot, so don't count it out when he hasn't officially announced anyone yet.

EDIT for personal feelings on the situation: I would be truly hurt, saddened, mad, etc. if Obama could not find a single spot for an openly gay politico.

[hulklogan]

30. Hispanic tokenism = OK, republican tokenism = OK, LGBT tokenism = "only the most qualified!!!"

Is Gov. Richardson really the best qualified person for Commerce? I don't believe it.

Also, on the NYT list of possible cabinet appointees, the mayor of Miami is listed as a possible choice for HUD. If he is qualified, why not the mayor of Providence?

How loud do we have to shout to get a seat at the "big boys table"?

[stray cat]

36. You think Richardson is an affirmative action placement?

Gee - I thought he was a presidential candidate, a governor and a contender for SOS - turns out he was just a hispanic? Who knew :sarcasm:

[Uzybone]

49. Its very insulting

To the OP, all minorities and women in Obamas cabinet are token choices. Regardless of anything they have done in life, the OP sees them as quota picks. Its very insulting to minorities.

[dsc]

50. that is total bullshit

I happen to believe in Affirmative Action. Unlike you apparently. It is possible to pick qualified people while giving a damn if groups which haven't been represented in the past get represented. It is sad you think that there were no qualified women or Hispanics for Obama to choose from, that speaks more about you than I.

[Uzybone]

62. Your the one who thinks Richardson was only picked

because he was Hispanic.

[dsc]

67. No I don't

I think he was picked because of his resume AND BECAUSE HE IS HISPANIC.

[Skwmom]

38. You make a very valid point. n/t

[BlueMTexpat]

46. But what is "commerence" ... ?

Just wonderin' ... :shrug:

[democrattotheend]

47. Hispanics did not just lobby hard for "a Hispanic"

They lobbied for a specific Hispanic, Richardson, who was arguably the most qualified for Secretary of State. What bugs me about what you and some others were suggesting was that you did not have any specific ideas for a particular gay person you thought was the best choice for a post. It seemed like you wanted him to pick a gay person for the sake of picking a gay person, whether or not there were any openly gay public servants who were the best choice for any particular role. If you have a specific person you want to push than go for it.

[dsc]

48. that is a flat out, bald faced lie

My thread on this subject named not one Barney Frank, not two Roberta Actenburg, not three David Cicilline but actually five people. You are bald faced lying when you say I didn't give names. I did.

On edit here is the link to where I did exactly and precisely what you dishonestly said I didn't do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7873248

[democrattotheend]

61. Sorry, maybe I was confusing your thread with a different thread

There were several threads on the subject, and the one I remember did not give any specific names, and nobody answered when I asked who.

I like Barney Frank but doesn't he have some ethics issues?

I confess I've not heard of the other two...forgive my ignorance. Who are they, and what posts would you recommend them for?

[dsc]

66. I recommended both for HUD

Roberta Actenburg was deputy Secretary of HUD under Clinton and Cillicone is the mayor Providence (Ciscernos had similar experience when Clinton named him).

[alwysdrunk]

54. I'm starting to see your side of it, by why 'open'

Major cabinet position. AG Janet Reno and SoS Condi Rice. Gay? Whatever the answer it isn't "absolutely not".

You post about only gays know what it's like got me thinking. From what I know of the gay experience (almost nothing) being closeted or coming out is a personal choice and outing someone is a very wrong thing to do. Are closeted gays and open gays two separate groups?

This is an honest question, I'm trying to get educated here.

[dsc]

55. as people probably not

but as a message a big difference. First, I am taking Napolitano at her word that she isn't gay. Reno never outright denied it but Napolitano surely has. But even if she is, she surely isn't going to trumpet gay issues if she is closeted.

[malik flavors]

56. Next time you start this thread, I want you to include in your title the name of the gay individual

that you would like to see in the cabinet, because I can't think of a single openly gay qualified person to place in the cabinet.

If you can't either, maybe you should stop talking about including something that doesn't exist in Obama's cabinet.

And don't say Barney Frank, because that clearly isn't happening.

You can't just cry about wanting gays in the cabinet and not even know one that's a good choice. Are you suggesting he just do it simply because the person's gay? Get real. All that would do is make Obama's administration less effective.

[ruggerson]

57. Do you know who Roberta Achtenberg is?

[Uzybone]

63. What cabinet post do you think she is qualified for?

How did she do in HUD under Clinton? I have no idea.

[dsc]

65. when I posted names before they were totally ignored.

[BlooInBloo]

58. At least it's clear which side of the "hang together" versus "hang seperately" divide you're on.

[stillcool]

64. ah well..if Meet the Press said something..

I take it as gospel that the only reason why Richardson could be appointed to any post is because his is Latino.

[BlooInBloo]

68. Because they've signed on to the MSM basic platform: their job isn't to determine what's true...

Instead, they view their job as being simply to let people say whatever they want to, and then NPR people will obligingly repeat it later.