One assumption that's bothering me(and this isn't about Obama, really)

[Ken Burch]

This whole "bipartisan" thing is based on the notion that "the left" or just the plain old liberals are just as much to blame for this country's problems in the last forty years or so as the right is.

I can understand Republicans pushing this meme, because it gives them a chance to push to limit how far the new administration can change things(and gets them at least partly off the hook for things having gone south), but why do so many DEMOCRATS seem to accept it?

The fact is, since 1968 "the left" has had almost no political power. Every important decision was at least center-right or outright right in character.

Am I the only one who has a problem with the "plague on both houses" idea?

[Jackpine Radical]

1. I'm a "Plague on one house" type--

The big house over on the right.

I posted something in roughly the same vein on a thread that got virtually no traction earlier:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7910189&mesg_id=7910189

[The Wielding Truth]

2. I think the idea is that if a person is invested in something, that

they are less likely to destroy it, and they will be more cooperative, and more willing to improve it,but that does not seem to ring true with Republicans. When they are involved, they tend to steal the value and destroy the rest so it's no good to anyone.

It's admiral that Obama feels more trusting in republicans than I do.Let's hope that he inspires them to actually act as if they love America.

[Cleita]

3. Considering we really haven't had real power since LBJ's days, I'm not

taking much blame for anything except perhaps Vietnam. That was pretty much a mistake on our side of the aisle for listening to the corporate chickenhawks, but I really refuse to take the blame for everything that has happened since Nixon took office. I know we had a little respite with Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton but they really couldn't do anything that could be entirely blamed on them because they were being forced to compromise with the Repukes every inch of the way.

[No Elephants]

15. The opening post deals with the character of actions, not the party of the Presidents who took

those actions.

[Cleita]

17. Well, you are naive if you don't think that any politicians including

Presidents don't follow party line most of the time.

[DJ13]

4. Much as the neocons knew the 2000 election was their last chance

.......Im afraid that this election was the last chance for another generation to enact real liberal programs that would open up the eyes of those voters who for 40 years have been misled by the GOP, the MSM, and those politicians who were eager to call themselves Democrats but acted more like Republicans......the last great chance to prove that liberalism can be the most effective, and fair, means of governing.

The voters authorized change, give them the change they voted for, not some watered down faux liberalism designed to placate the Republicans.

If an ideal is worth running on, its worth governing to enact.

[girl gone mad]

5. Precisely.

If Obama can't deliver, not only will our nation be worse for it, but our party will be irreparably damaged.

An Independent outsider could run a strong campaign in 4 or 8 years. People are engaged and I don't see that changing as our economic picture worsens. That concerns me.

As I've said many times, I'm a liberal because I believe that liberal policies are the right policies for our country, not because I think donkeys make a cool mascot and I like the color blue.

[KakistocracyHater]

6. yep, impossible to embrace

someone who's trying to punch you, some don't get that. There are a few on the Right but most have left their own party, how about those who are openly promising gridlock? It's like watching an episode of "Intervention"...

[political_Dem]

11. I definitely agree.

After eight years of being told to pipe down lest we are "aiding the terrorists", I think it's about time for the people to have a loud voice in saying how this government is run. Let's face it. What Bush had wasn't a democracy. It was more like an authoritarian system in which the citizens had to follow his rules. He was one step away from being a dictator. And if anyone questioned anything, they weren't being "patriots" and often shunned for their ideas.

So why is centrism and conservativism more correct when in the last Administration policies based on centrism and the right have failed this country?

[stillcool]

7. Oligarchy by default...

the only way our government will change is if 'we the people' assert our influence, which seems highly unlikely. The real way to end the argument over left vs. right, is to have the country fail, smash it up into little pieces and let the little people fight amongst themselves. Wait a minute..is that what this is?

[mmonk]

8. 1980 and 1994 happened.

The Democrats saw the Republicans as having a winning plan and so they wanted to adapt or create their own version of it. That would be Chicago School economics, the MIC and a Wilsonian version of Reagan foreign policy. Now they can't let go of it. Elected Democrats (majority except the Progressive caucus) run and govern right of their state Democratic platforms.

[Sinti]

9. I see this quite differently - the conservative ideology is bankrupt.

That's obvious on its face. Even Milton Friedman should see the light at this point. However, there are a large number of regular people in this nation who see themselves as conservative. They've been sold this belief, much like they're sold everything else they buy, and it's going to be hard to pry them away. Many of them proclaim their superiority with a violent zeal that would make the RW Radio psychos proud. It's going to take a lot of finesse to get them to let go of the gun, if you will.

Partisan rancor really doesn't serve anyone at this time anyway. We need to change the tone from the top down. Having many ideas at the table helps to fine tune your decisions, it gives you more perspective. Even individuals with ideas that are diametrically opposed to your own can help you find the weak points in your argument or plan, so they're useful to you nonetheless.

If we can pull the reasonable people out of the conservative camp, with our good ideas and plans that work, it increases our power as a party. We then have to make sure they understand, it was OUR plans that made things work again. Before they will listen to you, though, you've got to listen a little bit. To get respect you've got to show respect, it's just that simple.

That doesn't mean you "lead from the center right" - the notion of that is ridiculous. When I hear that to me it's just the sound of desperate clinging to power for its own sake on the part of the cons. You've got to lead in ways that make sense for all of us, in a forward thinking manner, and bring as many along as you can to push this train back onto its tracks.

[EFerrari]

10. To be honest, I don't see the bipartisan thing as anything more than

Obama turning the tables on the meme. That's a smart move, imo.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. Bipartisan is as bipartisan does is what momma always said.

[Ken Burch]

18. I do think that's his objective. And, as I said, I'm not arguing with Obama here

It's more an underlying assumption of the political class that I'm questioning.

[EFerrari]

19. Understood.

:)

[FrenchieCat]

13. I think many people, in particular the young ones are tired of this

labeling business....a lot of it which is superficial and based on deception and trickery (the right wing are the guilty ones, since they have had a louder voice for a very long time).

The conversation has to be changed here in America, and labels that have been used have to be explained and made less important.

Bottomline is to "change" the media via the FCC, and to change election methods, and then we can start seeing straight.

It is that the corporate interests have been using the people for quite some time, and have done so via the means of media and vote rigging.

So I think once we set that shit straight, we will all be having a different conversation.

[grantcart]

14. I am a plague on a united foe

I think that what Obama is doing is brilliant

1) Reaches out to Lieberman

2) Sends Chief of Staff to consult minority leaders

3) consults with rational Republican security people like Scowcroft.


The 'reasonable' right is going to go along with him while the 'lunatic' limbaugh,hannity, nut jobs remain hostile.


A Republican House divided cannot stand. Obama is giving them Kerosine to put out their fires.

[No Elephants]

16. I don't know that bi-partisanship will even unite a very divided nation. Cons will attribute

anything good that happens to the presence of cons.