You Can't Scapegoat a Population of 12.3% for the passing of ANY Proposition

[Bullet1987]

I debated whether or not to start a thread about this given the stark emotions involved on both sides. But the meme being created to trash Blacks AS A WHOLE (even here on DU) based on the simple exit poll out of California forced me to.

First and foremost, I think what has happened in unfortunate...though will likely be overturned. I don't think the fate of ANY community should be left for others who may have different POVs to decide. I've seen the analogy that it would be stupid to have asked White Americans in the south during the 1960s to decide the fate of Blacks through the Civil Rights Act. Though, I think there is blame to go around for Prop 8 being passed. But that's not how it's being framed by either the MSM or the gay community (or supporters of the gay community via posts I've read on blogs and this forum). Based on ONE exit poll, the scapegoating of Blacks on this issue is EQUALLY unfortunate and counterproductive. Blacks don't have NEARLY the level of impact in California, numbers-wise, to dictate how ANYTHING passes. Both Hispanics and Whites have many more voters than Blacks have. And even though according to the exit poll, they didn't vote as heavily in favor of Prop 8, 70% of the small population of Blacks that voted in California is nothing compared to the COMBINED favor Whites, Hispanics, various age groups, etc had in favor of it.

But based on the reaction, you would think Blacks had the numbers in CA that they do in Georgia or North Carolina. Another reason I started this thread is because the last thing Democrats need are two voting blocks going at each other. We need to nip this shit in the bud before it gets out of hand and people on both sides get hurt. Yes, Blacks tend to be more conservative Democrats socially. Yes, many Black people are very religious...but that does not give people the right to scapegoat the ENTIRE Black community as if Prop 8 lived or died by Black hands. Let us work together to fix this, instead of tearing each other apart.

That's my 2 cents.

[Retrograde]

1. much smaller percentage than that

if you're referring to Black voters: about 7% of the population of California is Black, less than the national average - the state has a much higher percentage of people of Asian and Central American descent than the national average (figures from Wikipedia, so take that for what it's worth)

You do raise a valid point: even if every Black voter in the state decided to vote a particular way they could not pass an issue by themselves. Looking at the county results, the northern coastal counties voted against 8, the inland counties voted for it: no surprise, it's the usual liberal/conservative split for the most part. What surprised me was Los Angeles county, which was almost a tie, with 8 just squeaking by. San Luis Obispo was also close.

I think 8 passed because of those incessant ads with Gavin Newsom: just the sound of his voice IMHO was enough to sway some voters.

Now, if someone can explain why Modoc county is so enthusiastic for a high-speed train that goes nowhere near it...

[joshcryer]

2. Do the math.

Do it.

It needs to be recognized before it can be solved. Homophobia is real.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Fact is that most Black slaves accepted the god of their white masters

and that too many of their descendants are oppressing gays in the same way they were oppressed.

Black and Latino LGBTs are subjected to the most oppression from their own people.

It was the Black churches in Indiana that supported a similar measure to Prop 8 last year. The bigoted proposal was defeated by a multi-racial coalition of progressives and moderates.

[W_HAMILTON]

4. You can blame any group, no matter how small or large...

...for failure to get something passed (or rejected), if that group is still large enough to affect the outcome.

And from everything I can tell in the California race, the vote was close enough that, yes, even a smaller percentage group like African Americans ended up affecting the race.

And it makes perfect sense to do so. It actually is hypocritical to say otherwise, seeing as how people here on DU have scapegoated many other smaller groups before for our various losses, and possible losses. Remember all the bitching about Hillary supporters possibly losing the election for us? If that had happened, they, too, would have been a smaller percentage of the Democratic voting bloc, but guess what? It would have meant the difference between winning and losing.

So, try to come up with another excuse. You should stick with the "hey, it's religion!" line, because that holds more water than defending African Americans for voting in favor of Prop-8, when from everything I can tell, if they had voted against Prop-8 the same way they voted for Obama, the initiative would have failed.

[joshcryer]

5. I too didn't think it was significant enough to matter.

But then I actually did the math, and I can understand why some GLBT people are so upset.

[TragedyandHope]

6. Let's come together to fix this rather than tear each other apart

Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People for Proposition 8

[W_HAMILTON]

7. And the "facts"...

...belie what we know so far, so they can't be facts, anymore than the evidence people are using now are "facts."

You can say that we don't have enough information, which may be true.

But from the information we do have, if African Americans would have voted against Prop-8 in the same numbers they voted for Obama, Prop-8 would have failed.

We may not have enough information, and we may have the wrong information, but from the information we do have right now, people have every to be upset at the way African Americans voted.

If other evidence comes to light, then people will think differently. But that "other evidence" has yet to come out, if it ever will.

[TragedyandHope]

8. If you want to work towards a positive change

This is not the way to go about it. You're pushing away people who support you and falling into the Rovian trap of misdirected anger. Whites, blacks, hispanics, mormons and others are all to blame. You can argue stats all day long. The question is do you want to bridge the gap and win people over to support equal rights for all or do you want to push people away permanently with further divisiveness?

[W_HAMILTON]

9. Even though fellow Democrats voted to limit my rights...

...I would not do the same for them. Even after what happened. So, no, I'm not falling for any "trap."

You should talk to the people that boasted what a great moment it was, and how our country had come so far in the struggle for equal rights, all the while they voted to limit the rights of their fellow citizens.

Like I said, if the shoe was on the other foot, things would be even worse around here. Can you imagine if Obama lost by a slim margin, and it could be attributed back to the fact that gay people overwhelming voted against him? Can you imagine if Obama lost by a slim margin, and it could be attributed back to Clinton supporters that voted for McCain?

Would you still be saying, "hey guys, don't get mad, let's see what we can do to get them to vote for us!"

[TragedyandHope]

10. I'm glad you're not that type of person

and I'm not either. I just don't think the goal of reversing Prop 8 specifically and more generally opening peoples minds to equality for all is served by this. Numerically, FAR, FAR more Whites voted against it that Blacks. Obsessing over one statistic like this, rather than the overwhelming number of other voters who are also responsible, seems to say more about those doing the obsessing than anything else.

And as I said before, this pigeonholing is misdirected energy which can actually push away supporters and potential supporters, who are the exact people we need to reach. It seems to be at odds with the goal of undoing the damage of Prop 8.

Maybe you skimmed the article. If you want to continue on about stats, have another careful read before you do. Here's the link again.

Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People for Proposition 8

Personally, I think the question should be, "where do we go from here and how do we get there?"