I am an angry Californian who will NEVER be polite about the Mormon 'religion' again.

[Dems to Win]

Today, I am half-overjoyed that Obama won, and half-furious that Prop 8 passed. I am livid at the Mormon Church for coming into California and pouring money into a (sadly successful) effort to take away civil rights from Californians.

Here's one (straight) Californian who resolves to never, ever again pretend that Mormonism is a legitimate religion worthy of respect.

Mormon missionaries at my door? I'll tell them exactly how stupid they are to be followers of a cult started by a con man. And, I'll tell them that Joseph Smith was NOT killed by an anti-mormon mob, but rather by Mormon elders who had just discovered that Smith was having sex with their wives, after convincing them to 'spiritually marry' him.

Romney runs for president again? I will litter the internet with my posts calling him too stupid to be president, evidenced by his membership in the Joseph Smith cult. If Romney can be duped into thinking that the book of Mormon was written on gold plates found and translated by Smith (but never seen again), he obviously doesn't have critical thinking skills.

The Mormon 'church' is as ridiculous as the 'church' of scientology. I will state it loudly to any Mormon I encounter.

No more politeness from me, when it comes to the Mormons.




on edit: I'm copying MPK's post up to here, to clarify the OP. Thanks for the good info, MPK.

MPK: 24. I found this today:
http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_10879061

" In a four-month offensive, the LDS Church has deployed its faithful as partisans for California's Proposition 8, a ballot initiative that would ban gay marriage - the largest mobilization since the faith fought the Equal Rights Amendment three decades ago. In June, members were asked to "do all you can." And they have.
As a result, the Salt Lake City-based church gets the credit and the blame for leading the cause. According to Californians Against Hate, Mormons have donated more than $19 million to the cause - nearly four out of five dollars raised. "

[billyoc]

1. Shit, who will?

[valerief]

2. Mormonism is a politcal party with tax exemptions, that's all. nt

[TexasObserver]

43. Absolutely. When a religion launches anti civil rights actions, they are the enemy.

The Mormon Church made the Mormon Church a player in this issue. They're using tax exempt dollars to push their political agenda, which agenda is anti civil rights. They're a glorified social club, an adjunct of the GOP.

[msongs]

3. prop 8 is their test case, expect it go worldwide now nt

[bridgit]

4. How can such people feel they have the right to deny the rights of others?

[liberalmuse]

5. I was raised Mormon...

and got out of that godforsaken religion when I was 16--and even asked to have my name removed, though I never showed up at the 'court' they held for me. Fuck them, and all the evangelical anti-Christs that threw their blood-money at this. They've been planning assaults like this on human rights for years, especially against gays. All their money is going down the toilet, because no court will uphold this monstrosity. It sounds so innocent, doesn't it? 'Proposition'. More like the final solution. No proposition should ever take away human rights.

[Bubbha Jo]

6. They need to be checking their fringe before interfering in the rights of others. Shame on them!

[Starry Messenger]

7. I feel like they Enronned us. I am so furious.

What can't mean-spirited fundies stay in their own Dominionist "paradises" and leave CA the fuck alone. I thought that's what they wanted??

[DavidDvorkin]

8. All religions are ridiculous at their base

Not all of them get involved in politics on the dark side. Other than that, they're all the same.

[SwampG8r]

96. you can say that again!

[DavidDvorkin]

9. All religions are ridiculous at their base

Not all of them get involved in politics on the dark side. Other than that, they're all the same.

[Cults4Bush]

10. Lots of Baptist and Catholic money went into it as well.

Quite frankly I think Im done with not generalizing or stereotyping these christo-fascist homophobes. Ive tried to be good about not thinking of them in monolithic terms. They are the enemy and no better then Palins prayer warrior psychotics club.

[bluedawg12]

68. Yeah, but this group gave almost 40% of the total

read individuals were donating $30,000.

I spoke to a M*****n woman the night before the Prop8 vote and she was all about how gays will destroy America.

[Cults4Bush]

94. Oh I agree, Im just all about

taking it to all of their bigoted hateful souls. They are destroying America, they get off on other peoples pain. There is no doubt in my mind that they would do us GLBT'ers serious harm given half the chance. I think people who know this about these religious sects and still support them are enabling hate and extremism.

[Chloroplast]

11. You don't think you're overreacting a tad?

I'm assuming that because you're a 'Californian who resolves to never, ever again pretend that Mormonism is a legitimate religion worthy of respect' that you will respect a 'Mormon who resolves to never, ever again pretend that homosexuality is a legitimate lifestyle worthy of respect'? Hmmm?! The bashing is getting out of hand.

[ruggerson]

13. Why are you at DU?

Why are you giving moral cover to people who just destroyed other people's marriages?

[Chloroplast]

20. Oh, it's you...

I'm not giving any one 'moral cover'. The hateful attitude shouldn't be returned and I voiced my opinion on that particular aspect. Blaming entire groups is a dangerous game and alienates people that could become sympathetic to the cause; not all Mormons are homophobes.

[LostinVA]

25. Yeah, it's him -- a really great, long-time DUer

Mormonism sucks. It may well be the most sexist, homophobic "mainstream" religion out there. The actual teachings of the Koran are WAY better than the Mormon scriptures -- there is NO WAY for Mormons to not be sexist and homophobic -- and racist. The religion demands it.

Spin away lurking Mormons, but I'm right.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Binka]

40. You Are A Dip-shit. Please Stop Attacking A Long Time DUer,

Oh and by the way GET LOST. Freeper land is looking for you.

[Chloroplast]

51. Binka, I don't know you from a bag of rocks but you took the time to call me a FReeper.

I worked my heart out for Obama for months and take great offense at you so much as suggesting that I am a FReeper. I never 'attacked' anyone. I can't believe how juvenile some of you are; not everyone is going to agree on everything. I personally don't agree with making blanket statements about groups of people. But I guess it's forgivable when a 'Long Time DUer' does it, eh? Does that mean they are above reproach? :eyes:

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

112. I didn't see the post before it was deleted -- but hugs

[Binka]

116. Hugs To You Baby Love You Real Hard

The poster got the TS. Their shit was shit.

[Downtown Hound]

88. You act like the Mormons are the victims here

And that's the problem. The Mormons are the aggressor here, and that's what you don't understand in your misguided and hopelessly naive way of thinking. You seem to have this idea that a person's "core beliefs" are immediately entitled to respect. In my book, a person's core beliefs are completely open to judgment and/or condemnation if warranted.

It says in your profile that you are female. So, let me ask you this. If I believed that men were inherently superior to women, and in fact, women should be slaves to men, would that belief automatically be entitled to respect by you? You may respect my right as a human being to hold my rather backward beliefs, but that doesn't mean you have to respect my belief itself.

Now, let me go one further. Let's just say for argument's sake that men outnumbered women, and one day we got it on a ballot that, if passed, would strip all women of their rights and make them the property of men. You would be required to do our bidding at all times and without question. And then let's say, our "Proposition" passes. You are now our property. You were outnumbered, could do nothing to hold us off, and now you must respect the outcome because it's both the rule of law and, remember, it's our core belief too. I just don't believe you women should really have any freedom of your own, sorry. I'm not sexist or anything, why would you even think that I was? I'm offended that you would say such a thing. It's insulting and offensive to my core beliefs, which I believe to be ordained by God. Why can't you just respect my belief that women should serve men, hand and foot, and belong to them totally? You shouldn't really attack us or get angry at the fact that we just stripped you of your fundamental rights as human beings, because attacking our core beliefs is only going to make us unite together in a greater effort to enslave you.

That's pretty the argument you're making, only the specifics are different. You have a group of people that are having their marriages destroyed and their way of life that harms no one else being attacked and having their rights denied. Because they are a minority and don't have the numbers to counteract the majority.

And I'll tell you something, if any backwards ass, idiotic men ever tried to do the things to women that I mentioned above, I'd be the first to stand against them. I'd say they deserve to be attacked. They deserve to have their core beliefs ridiculed and attacked from every way possible. I'd help women resist. I'd march alongside with them, fight with them, go to jail for them, and not stop for one moment because I know that their civil rights are ultimately my civil rights. If the majority can strip any minority of its rights, then they can do it to me too if I one day find myself being "different" from the rest.

And I'll stand with my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters here too, as a straight man. Because their rights are my rights, and when theirs are denied, I know that mine can be denied. I would stand up for your rights if they were denied Chloroplast. I'm sure many gay folks would too. Will you stand with them? With us? Or will you continue to defend those that trample on rights, stating, more or less, that their bigoted ways deserve our respect?

[ruggerson]

26. The Mormon church INSTITUTIONALLY attacked families

this wasn't a handful of Mormons. This was an organized war. There is no moral equivalency here. No gay and lesbian institutions have ever attacked Mormon families and tried to legally destroy them.

[Chloroplast]

35. By your logic it's easier to attract flies with vinegar and NOT honey.

Why is hatred the way to respond to their efforts?

[ruggerson]

36. because this is now a war

you don't get anywhere by showering kindness on people who are intent on destroying your family.

[Chloroplast]

42. You're going to war against fellow Americans?

It just gets stranger and stranger. Well, however you feel you'll reach your goal, more power to you. I refuse to be involved in a situation where I'd make blanket attacks against a group of people.

[ruggerson]

49. then don't be involved

stand on the sidelines and do nothing

[Omnibus]

85. Didn't the Mormons declare war first?

At this point, it's self-defense. And for those of us who feel allied to the gays, you've activated a Mutual Defense Pact.

I don't agree with the Mormons, and think their beliefs are silly, but I would be willing to respect their rights, as I have in the past, if they could live and let live.

Since they want to persecute others, though, and they've decided to fund intolerance and hate, they're unworthy of respect. They are now open targets.


If Mormonism prevents you from tolerating gays, someone should find a Magic Viewfinder Stone and some more "lost" scriptures. The price of gold is down, so "discovering" a tablet should be cheap.

You'd think the Mormons would be PRO-gay. After all, Rick Santorum said it was the next step to polygamy.

Mormons think that they'll become Gods over their own planets after they die. Can't they go now?

Mormon = Christianity Lite! Now with HALF the tolerance of regular Christians!




If you're a Mormon, and you don't like the cruelty in this post, change the hate cult you call a church. We'll stop fighting back when you stop attacking.

[bluedawg12]

69. Chloroplast, those aren't efforts, they are bigots

I spent time yesterday speaking with one of these good people you defend and her position was that gay marriage will lead to the destruction of America.

gee, equating gays with destruction of America? Where have we heard that rheotric? After 9-11? After Katrina?
Blame the gays.

And now a powerful church with lot's of money is going after people's civil rights?
That doesn't bother you? What business is it of a church in Utah if gays in calif get married, they are but 4% of Calif. population.

[SwampG8r]

97. off topic but

i always see that phrase
vinegar and honey are equal in their ability to draw flies
in fact a sweet vinegar may do a better job
the flies are attracted by the odor of sugar
honey has a higer sugar content but is less aromatic

this is my personal observation from over 35 years in restaurant work

[CJCRANE]

104. That's almost a metaphor for "Third Way" politics! nt

[Why Syzygy]

37. How can a Church make such a financial investment

in political activities?

[ruggerson]

54. good question

[bluedawg12]

71. Uh..I recall it is one of the wealthiest churches in the world. n/t

[Why Syzygy]

81. But it's 501C, isn't it?

Not supposed to use church funds. Maybe they did it via their members. Private donations. It sounds like the church itself did it, and that seems illegal.

[donco6]

111. They probably formed a political arm.

It's easy to do. That's how Focus on the Family gets away with it. Technically, they aren't a church.

[bullwinkle428]

70. I'll tell you how. Andrew Callahan, a former Church Elder who

was "excommunicated" over his opposition to Prop 8, explained that the church put MAJOR pressure on its members to donate their OWN TIME & MONEY (personal funds) towards support for the measure, thus maintaining their legal tax exempt status...

http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_635_Faith_Vs_Duty.mp3/view

[Downtown Hound]

34. Anybody who's a part of that church after this

is either a homophobe or a gutless hypocrite in my book. If you don't have the guts to take a stand against this kind of bigotry and discrimination by standing up and walking the fuck out of a hate group like the Mormon Church then you're just as guilty as the pigs that pushed this bill. I would never belong to any organization that actively worked to put down other's civil rights like the Mormon Church did, and I would be out of there so fast after telling all of its members to go take a flying fuck that if the door hit me on the ass on the way out, I'd rip it off its hinges.

Mormons suck. And mark my words, they're on my and a lot of other people's shit lists now. I wonder what we can do about getting that tax exempt status revoked. No free ride for bigoted hypocrites in my state.

[Chloroplast]

39. Have you lost your mind?

I'm not a Mormon, so miss me with the sanctimonious bullshit. Wow, Mormons are on your shit list. :eyes: How does that help people get over their bigotry? Being hateful towards a group of people only unifies them against an alleged enemy.

[ruggerson]

45. Their "core belief", as you put it

is just bigotry.

If a religion had, as its core belief, that we should reinstitute laws against interracial marriage, would you advocate respecting them and trying to reason with them, or would you advocate simply crushing them as a blight on humanity?

[Binka]

46. Do You Have A Mind To Miss? Jesus You Are Nuts.

[Starry Messenger]

52. The LDS institution is bigoted by nature.

And they were unified as all fuck before they started pouring money into changing other state constitutions. I have been searching for more links on this. Please check out this smug and hateful blogger here who posts to "rebut" the article I posted in #24:

http://mormontimes.com/mormon_voices/joel_campbell/?id=4899

"Having just visited LDS history sites in Missouri, such attempts to equate the current battle over rights with what happened to Mormons in the early history of the church is a nonsequitur. Mormons aren't organizing mobs against those who don't agree with them. They haven't tarred and feathered anyone. They haven't driven them from their land and homes at the point of a gun. They haven't locked anyone in a cellar of a jail for months on trumped-up charges.

Instead, Mormons, along with people of many faiths, have entered the public arena supporting an idea which they feel strongly about. They have engaged the public dialogue in good faith despite the vocal opposition. They have stood for something, believing it has an important implication on the future of society. They have used the First Amendment as a means to enter the marketplace of ideas. Those who opposed those ideas were allowed the same privilege. Not terrorism or violence was used to make a stand, but the standard of majority rule was sought. It was not irony, but democracy in action."

Emphasis mine. This was NOT an effort in good faith. It was a SCAM perpetuated through a variety of shell organizations. Individual Mormons might be persuaded? Sure. But those who are usually become ex-Mormons.

[Downtown Hound]

61. Reaching out to extremists is pointless

We're past that point now. You don't seem to understand that they are already "unified against a common enemy." And I never said you were Mormon, I was merely stating the things above as matters of principle.

I'm a big believer in fighting injustice, not reaching out to it. I have seen enough of how a Christian zealot's mind is so warped that no amount of rational discourse can penetrate their ignorance. They believe they are doing God's work by persecuting others. Have you ever tried disabusing someone of this notion that they are soldiers in an army of God? Good luck, it's about as productive as beating your head against a brick wall repeatedly.

You want to know what I think will work against those more "tolerant" Mormons you speak of? Shaming them. Wage enough of a campaign against them and their church that they become embarrassed to be associated with the other bigots. That's when I feel change has the potential to come to the Mormon church.

You go ahead and try and reach out to them all you want. But for myself, they'll remain on my shit list.

[Omnibus]

87. I hate the KKK too.

Does that mean I'm a bigot for hating and mocking their prejudice? Oh, no, I'm an anti-sheetist!

I'll be polite to, and try to reason with, the individuals who belong to the group, but as long as the group's leadership is adamant about their prejudice, the group stays prejudiced. Thus it stays on the shit list.


The Mormons could redeem themselves by changing their stance on homosexuality. They wouldn't even have to approve of homosexuality; they'd just have to stop spending millions of dollars on persecution.

Most people wouldn't be nearly as angry at a Mormon church that released a press statement in favor of prop 8 and encouraged its followers to vote "Yes". Sure, it's intolerant, but churches have first amendment rights too.

But to spend their tax-exempt dollars in a political process that promotes intolerance? That's immoral, illegal, and fully worthy of mockery.

[donco6]

102. They are clearly the enemy.

There's no chance of negotiating with their ilk. It would be like "playing nice" with James Dobson here in CO. It gets you nowhere.

[Bluenorthwest]

110. Yeah, we should have killed the Nazis with kindness

and treated the KKK to lovely dinners on the beach I guess. Mormons are organized to oppose my family, answering a bigot's attack is not the same as being a bigot you idiot. Was King a bigot for calling out racists as racists? Should he instead have accepted them?

Let the Mormons unify. No one who is not one likes them at all. They are intursive and clearly hypocritical, they call Christians 'gentiles' for crying out loud. They are seen as a cult by 99% of religious Americans. Let them unify and stay to themselves. Let America slam doors in their faces when they knock. Let real Americans tell them what we think of their fraud of a fantasy story faith. Fuck them.

[LostinVA]

113. Because their entire IS BIGOTED BEYOND BELIEF

At its core, Christianity isn't sexist, racist, or homophobic. Islam isn't even that bad. But, the sect of Christianity called Mormonism is COMPLETELY wrapped in extreme sexism, racism, and homophobia. It's disgusting. NO ONE on DU should EVER defend the LDS church, and any Mormon DUer who is pissed about my saying that can get over it. This sect should be condemned.

[TankLV]

65. FUCK YOU! Thank's Ruggerson!

oh,

FUCK YOU!

go back to your fucking hell hole utah...

[donco6]

100. I haven't met one who isn't.

Any why would anyone remain in such a church, knowing how hard they fought just to scapegoat another group for their own failures? Moral compass offline?

[Bluenorthwest]

108. Well the one who hold the coats are just as bad

and that is you at this point. Join a bigoted group, be assumed a bigot. Fund hate and you are in fact hating. Those who stay in that church are homophobes or the helpers of homophobes. Folks who fund and support what they know to be wrong are worse than the ignorant haters.

[Dems to Win]

21. Hell no I won't respect a Mormon. I thought I made it clear in my OP.

I haven't, and won't, try to rescind any civil rights of the Mormons. I WILL use my free speech rights to condemn them, anytime and any place.

[TankLV]

64. Out of hand - NOT FUCKING ENOUGH BASHING OF THIS JERKOFF "RELIGION" AND THEIR ASSWIPE MEMBERS!

FUCK ALL MORMONS FOR NOT STOPPING THIER CULT FROM DOING THIS!

FUCK ALL YOU MORMONS!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

78. Are gays working overtime to pass laws saying Mormons can't marry each other?

NO. THEY ARE NOT.

SO DON'T FUCKING TRY TO PRETEND THAT THERE IS SOME KIND OF MORAL EQUIVALENCE BETWEEN THE PERSON WHO WANTS TO RUN EVERYONE ELSE'S LIVES AND THE PEOPLE WHO JUST WANT EQUALITY AND TO BE LEFT THE FUCK ALONE.

Because THAT is the crucial point in all these culture war "differences of opinion".

Group A wants to be able to make their own decisions, while far right fundy group B wants "respect" for their
NEED to TELL EVERYONE ELSE HOW TO LIVE THEIR FUCKING LIVES.

And we're supposed to say, "mmmm. both sides have a point"

Fuck that. I'm sick of it. Both "perspectives" are not equal. Don't like gay marriage? Don't fucking marry someone of your own gender. Stop trying to run other peoples' lives.

[PVnRT]

93. That makes no sense at all

He's angry at Mormons for helping get Prop 8 defeated, but he would respect a hardcore bigot Mormon? What?

[donco6]

99. And when has that happened? n/t

[Bill McBlueState]

101. Mormonism is a choice

Homosexuality is not.

Your use of "lifestyle" to characterize homosexuality is telling.

[Zuiderelle]

109. Overreacting? To a religious organization purposefully working to take away our civil rights?

How the hell is that overreacting? We aren't working to take away their rights. We're reacting, quite reasonably, to them taking away ours.

And, my friend, homosexuality is NOT A LIFESTYLE. Your passive aggressive bashing is highly insulting.

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. The overall Mormon church was actively pro-Proposition 8?

That is highly disappointing to learn.

[ruggerson]

15. They gave 70% of the money that was raised by yes on 8

[Irishonly]

16. They funded it

at least 45% and paid for the lying commercials.

[Starry Messenger]

24. I found this today:

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_10879061

" In a four-month offensive, the LDS Church has deployed its faithful as partisans for California's Proposition 8, a ballot initiative that would ban gay marriage - the largest mobilization since the faith fought the Equal Rights Amendment three decades ago. In June, members were asked to "do all you can." And they have.
As a result, the Salt Lake City-based church gets the credit and the blame for leading the cause. According to Californians Against Hate, Mormons have donated more than $19 million to the cause - nearly four out of five dollars raised. "

[Cronus Protagonist]

55. They've funded anti-gay marriage attacks in EVERY state in the union

Prop22 a while back was one I fought quite strongly against the Mormons and it passed too... that one changed the state's definition of marriage. If you count the cash from the Mormon and the Catholic churches together, you get at least 75% of the funding behind these attacks on people's civil rights.

For me, the veil was lifted back then.

[rebel with a cause]

14. Mormons at your door?

Tell them that you would not ever consider being associated with a religion as racist as their's is. Watch them deny this, and then tell them that you know more about their religion that they do and that they should go home and study it before they go out spreading it. Also tell them that they need to reconsider being involved with such a hateful racist organization. Etc, Etc.

Mormons don't come to my door any more. Once was enough.

[justiceischeap]

17. Two words about the Mormon "religion" -- "Magic Underpants"

I'm so angry I actually hope I encounter a Mormon to vent at.

[Cronus Protagonist]

56. No need to vent

Tell them you're thinking of converting but you think ther underpants might be too constricting. Then ask them tons of questions about their construction and use... they HATE talking about them. The magic underwear is meant to be a closely held secret... it's like asking Scientologists about Xenu!

[cbc5g]

18. Yeah that church is run by self rightous bigots

It's been obvious for a long...long time. I'm glad I didn't have parents that brainwashed me into that cult.

[AzNick]

19. Same here. Just waiting for them to show up again...

Next time two of these morons, I mean mormons, show up at my door to try and endoctrinate me with their stuff, I'm ready to tell them what I think about Prop 102 in AZ and Prop 8 here.

Prop 102's campaign had more money than all the other campaigns together. Even the payday loans could not pony up as much cash to try and save their loan sharking business.

And for what? For a proposition that is 1-unconstitutional (you only need 1 year in law school to know that, and I never attended law school) and 2-is already a law in the books over here in Arizona.

What a bunch of stupid fucks.

I am so pissed at them, I will start giving my LDS friends and neighbors the cold shoulder.

[Jed Dilligan]

22. Germany is a functioning democracy with strict laws against cults.

I honestly don't know why we ever allowed Utah into the Union.

[JVS]

38. Mormons are legal in Germany

Scientology is banned though.

[Jed Dilligan]

80. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[DBoon]

23. they are up there with Scientology as far as I'm concerned

a religion founded on polygamy has a lot of nerve pushing "traditional" marriage

[Dems to Win]

27. Why doesn't UTAH jail people who don't adhere to 'one man, one woman'?

There's tens of thousands of polygomous families in Utah, often very abusive of the girls. Nothing is done.

Livid, I am.

[codjh9]

28. Wow - I didn't know they had a f-ing thing to do with prop 8 in CA!!!

[Cronus Protagonist]

58. Didn't you see their families standing at the freeway entrances and exits?

Their children holding signs up about their schools having to talk about gay marriage in schools and parents with signs about protecting their own marriages?

[Downtown Hound]

29. I keep thinking of my old college roommate

He was a conservative Mormon, and we used to have "debates" about things like gay marriage. We always disagreed but we were both polite to each other.

NO FUCKING LONGER! I realize now that being polite and agreeing to disagree with bigotry is the wrong approach. Bigotry needs to be called for what it is, and needs to be shut down and shut down firmly. I actually wish, for the first time in seven years, that I could see my old roommate again. Boy would I give him a piece of my mind, and perhaps a piece of my fist.

[Erin Elizabeth]

31. I've always been DEEPLY untrusting of the Mormon church.

(Which is not truly Christian, IMO, but that's a theological issue.)

I had relatives who became mormon in the 70s and set about trying to convert the rest of the family and when we wouldn't convert, spent years and years looking down their noses at us like they were automatically better people.

They're trashy and their "religion" is a pile of garbage and you won't see me saying that about any other "religion" except Scientology.

[grantcart]

32. They make me so angry I cannot even post and my great uncle was President of the "Church"

It has been a conspiracy to undermine the principals of the United States ever since Smith attacked the printer that was publishing an article by his former right hand man about his abusing young girls (and triggered the riot that killed him) to the mass murder at Meadow Mountain Massacre that was covered up by the prosecution of a single man for the murder of 118 women and children.

[FamousMortimer]

90. I'm proud to say I am a direct descendant of that printer guy

His name was Ahira Jones and the paper was the Nauvoo Expositor which ran only one issue because Joseph Smith seized the printing press after he read the editorial against polygamy. I found this out after a trip to the LDS center in Nauvoo when I was researching my ancestor who I knew was a Mormon there but nothing else. When I told them who my ancestor was they became verbally abusive to me and had me thrown out which I found rather funny at the time. I kind of like being the descendant of the Mormon judas.

I believe they are the most dangerous church in America right now.

[grantcart]

33. They make me so angry I cannot even post and my great uncle was President of the "Church"

It has been a conspiracy to undermine the principals of the United States ever since Smith attacked the printer that was publishing an article by his former right hand man about his abusing young girls (and triggered the riot that killed him) to the mass murder at Meadow Mountain Massacre that was covered up by the prosecution of a single man for the murder of 118 women and children.

[bluedawg12]

73. grantcart- Correct me if I am wrong

but didn't the church have active political ambitions in it's early day, and the founder aactually wanted to be POTUS?

I recall reading that they were highlypolitical locally,as well?

[grantcart]

82. yes Smith had dreams of turning the US into a theocracy

the Meadow Mountain Massacre was an attempt to intimidate the US into leaving Utah alone.

As the Calfornia gold rush brought more Americans to the West Coast Bringham Young knew that they would be surrounded and tht they would have to give up their anti-American practices - especially Polygamy. He had one of his gifted assistants a firebrand preacher, someone whom he had raised when the boys father died, start a revival to scare the Mormons in the rural areas about the settlers that were travelling through. They wanted to create the impression that it was a dangerous territory and staged the murder of 118 woman and children and faked an Indian attack.

They thought that the army with a very small full time professional force, only 8,000, would not want to come into conflict with Utah's malitia of 5,000 and would negotiate a political agreement giving Utah soveriegnty to maintain its lifestyle.

They realized they made a major miscalculation when the US Army moved in force to Utah with the intent of arresting Young. A local Mormon was picked out as a scapegoat tried and executed for the murders of the 118 innocent victims.

The preacher was rewarded as the first mayor of Salt Lake City. Jedidiah Morgan Grant was my great, great, great, great grandfather and now our family, with a better Mormon pedigree than Romney, has no family members that are Mormon Church members.

[Bippity Boo]

41. My boss is a practicing Mormon...

...he has been one of the kindest people I have ever known. I have had health problems and other struggles which haven't exactly made me the model employee, but this guy has kept me on despite fuckups from me that he would have been justified in canning me for. Now I am fiercely loyal and trying my hardest to reward him for his kindness.

I think Measure 8 is a disgrace, but I'm not going to shit on this guy's religion. I have to wonder if, in part, his religion has a part in how kind he has treated me, even though he has never spoken a single word to try to convert me, and I know he's an intelligent Democrat who loves Radiohead and Pink Floyd.

[Lars39]

44. If he's practicing, he's tithing....and some of his tithe went to deny others

a basic human right.

[Bippity Boo]

48. and if you pay taxes, some of your taxes paid for the bombing of civilians in Iraq & Afghanistan...

no one is pure

[Lars39]

50. tithing is voluntary, benefitting a private organization, taxes benefit us all.

[Bippity Boo]

53. Didn't the Catholic Church support Measure 8, too? Stephen Colbert is a member...

maybe you need to picket him

[Lars39]

57. So defensive.

[TankLV]

67. Yeah - one of the kindest BIGOTS!

If you're not part of the SOLUTION, you're you ARE the PROBLEM!

[Bippity Boo]

86. if you judge an individual based on religion, that's another kind of bigotry

that's in the definition of the word, fella

[frickaline]

107. While I don't think it is right to judge an individual

for their choice in religion, I do think it is right to judge the religion. People join religions all the time and follow only portions of what is preached. When they give money to their church, they don't believe that money to be going to bad causes necessarily. They might be uneducated on the matter, hopelessly optimistic or perhaps their local branch of the church simply doesn't discuss this part of the faith. You can't just assume them to be a bigot in the same way you can't assume all Catholics to be pro-lifers.

However, the religion itself is fair game. If a cornerstone of this religion is bigotry against gay Americans then that religion is deserving of judgment from without as well as from within. If they finance these types of activities with their funds, then they have brought this on themselves and they deserve to suffer any wrath that comes along with it.

[Sebastian Doyle]

47. Mormons = Right Wing Pigeons From Outer Space

Well... maybe not literally pigeons, but the rest is about right, with all the "Kolob" stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKdsz60QqRQ

[SeattleGirl]

59. It should be fucking illegal for groups outside of a state to

pour money into a state issue. It's fucking bullshit. I don't care if it's support for or against an issue; if that issue is only being voted on in one state, outside groups should stay out. If an individual wants to donate money, that's one thing. But for a group, particularly a religious one, wants to stick their nose in, that should be illegal.

[bridgit]

60. Agreed!

[tpi10d]

62. Next time I'm approached by LDS missionaries

I will let them know my displeasure with their church. The encounter will be a highly unpleasant experience for them :)

[Chovexani]

63. Welcome aboard

I've felt that way ever since I found out about that bullshit about black folks being cursed according to their dogma. Blacks weren't even allowed to be priests until like the 70s. Yes, they went back on it (once black people started getting some money, funny that), but they manage show their bigotry every time. I am not surprised at all that they had their tentacles all up in this Prop 8 shit. They did the same thing in Hawaii too.

This just cements my feelings about the "Church". Individual Mormons may be good and decent people but the institution is hopelessly bigoted and evil, whether it's against GLBT, women or minorities. They're a mafia no different than Scientology as far as I'm concerned.

[Dems to Win]

72. Ads for Mormon undergarments are being attached to this thread! lol

[GreenFiles]

74. Can I ask why you felt the need to disclaim that you were (straight) ?

wtf?

[Dems to Win]

84. It was to indicate the breadth of the anger about Prop 8. It's not just the gay DUers mad today.

no offense intended.

[lady raven]

75. I am a former Mormon

who left when I learned the whole truth about their beliefs (They keep a lot of things from the younger people and new converts). I respect most Mormons for living clean lives and (for the most part) being kind people, but this crossed the line big time. I am sickened that they would go into another state and lobby to take someone's civil rights away. Any kind thoughts I had left for the LDS Church are gone after their disgusting behavior regarding Proposition 8.

[Lucian]

76. I don't think most religions are worth any respect.

Except maybe Buddhism.

[totodeinhere]

77. It's not just the Mormons.

It's right wing Catholics and evangelicals and black churches as well. All supported Prop 8. The Mormons gave more money to support Prop 8 because they have more money, but those others helped Prop 8 as much as they could as well.

[Starry Messenger]

79. More LDS shenanigans for hate:

Robb and Robin Wirthlin's Story

http://www.protectmarriage.com/video/view/6

The Wirthlins Hit the Road for Hate

http://www.miketidmus.com/blog/2008/10/25/the-wirthlins-hit-the-road-for-hate/

Mass couple pushes Prop 8

http://ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=3414

"In the suit, the Wirthlins said the school was attempting to indoctrinate their children about an "immoral lifestyle." The suit complained that school officials bypassed their parental rights to raise their children how they wish, and in doing so, violated their civil rights.

The Wirthlins lost their legal battle - the U.S. Supreme Court just declined to hear the case, letting the lower court ruling stand - but they are far from losing the war. They are part of the out-of-state effort by the Mormon Church, whose members have contributed millions of dollars to the Yes on 8 war chest, to pass Prop 8.

Chip White, a spokesman for Yes on 8, confirmed that the Wirthlins are members of the Mormon Church."

[last_texas_dem]

83. If it turns out a majority of California voters supported this piece of shit "proposition"

as it's looking like it will, i think there are much bigger forces than the LDS church at work here. Mormons make up a small percentage of CA's population, and it's likely that a majority of Californians have a negative opinion of the LDS church, at least if CA opinion is consistent w/ national. I doubt the Mormons have that much clout; why would Californians be swayed by propaganda from a church that they have negative opinions about? No, I blame this more on the hateful ideas instilled into millions of Americans by many conservative stripes of religions and religious denominations (many of these much bigger than the LDS) and the authoritarian values and distrust or hatred of minorities that individuals are either naturally inclined to harbor and/or have instilled into them while growing up, often outside of any supporting religious beliefs.

[No Elephants]

89. Sadly, any neo theo would have opposed it. Don't get mad. Get even. We need to start

doing whatever it takes to undo this. Venting is one thing. But it doesn't change much. We need a fundraising effort for this.

[ellisD]

91. Moron Mercenaries

I had a friend Ernie in high school, his mom was mormon and the missionaries were always coming by his house... I'll never forget the time when they came up and started to preach to us, and my friend was like "wait, did you guys just hear that?!? (puts hand to ear) that's the sound of Joseph Smith burning in hell ARRRHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

fucking hilarious! needless to say they left us alone after that

[barack the house]

92. All you need do is channel that anger into ousting Repubs in 2010 and instating gay marriage in most

states. Everyone outraged at this prop can get their vengeance by keep Repubs out of office on every level and helping gay marriage be universal from state to state. Instate it law state by state it probably will take more gay people who are for gay marriage to run for office on a local level or straight folks who are pro gay marriage to do so too. Massive activism can overcome this.

[SwampG8r]

95. can you be clearer?i cant tell if you are for or against mormonism

[TK421]

98. Get a brain, Mormans!!@@

GO USA!!@

[Kalyke]

103. So let me get this straight...

The Mormon Church would seek to prevent same sex marriages while simultaniously forcing their 13-year-old daughters to marry some 60-year-old man who already has 10 wives?

What's wrong with that picture?

(Sexism, mostly, but I digress).

[Colobo]

105. It's not the religion that's bad. It's the followers. They are the problem.

Religions intend to connect you with the spiritual world, whatever it might be. People add social norms to them in order to control others.

[mmonk]

106. None of us should. We need a reaffimation of the Constitutional

directive of separation of Church and state.

[Zombie2]

114. Send them a message HERE......

"For every donation of $5 or more.... the following postcard to President Thomas Monson’s office in Salt Lake City, acknowledging your donation in his name."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7813461

[Dr Fate]

115. I used to be polite & give the benefit of the doubt to LDS as well.

I'm with you.