If you think "queen" and "cocksucker" are awesome put downs why are you a Democrat?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Two of the top ten threads in GDP at the moment are the all too usual "republican=fag" bullshit.

It amazing that this happens every damn day.

[ogneopasno]

1. Indeed.

K&R.

[Billy Burnett]

2. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[Medusa]

3. Well-said.

Kick and recommend.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. Recommended!

:thumbsup:

[WhollyHeretic]

5. The queen one was zapped pretty quick. I haven't seen the other yet

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. "The Video John McCain and the wealthy cocksuckers don't want you to see"

[Quixote1818]

55. That was a George Carlin video

and a term he personally used in the video to describe the rich people who rule over us. He didn't use the term as derogatory toward gays. He was basically calling them "ass holes" or "pricks". Just like Carlin, I have used the term and never considered it derogatory toward gays, though I can see how it could be. I probably won't ever use it again now that I see it might be offensive to gays.

Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KReZyAZLI0

[Santro]

6. I don't consider queen a putdown. Neither is diva which Campbell Brown does not agree on.

..

[The Magistrate]

9. Then Think Again, Sir

[Guaranteed]

13. ???

Is it or is it not a put down?

[Santro]

20. I guess it depends on who you are and who says it.

Just like the "N" word I suppose.

[Yes We Did]

40. NO... just who's listening or reading. n/t

[pnwmom]

14. Of course it is, at least when it's used on a guy. n/t

[Marrah_G]

80. It is absolutely a slur.

[uppityperson]

114. How about tata troll? Is that a putdown?

[Jed Dilligan]

8. I don't do it

But the appeal for many is obvious: calling them what they hate the most and claim loudest not to be. I would recommend calling them terrorists instead.

[TheBigotBasher]

138. Looking at things from an Irish perspective

Don't Americans celebrate some terrorist thing that happened some time round early July that could be offensive to English people?

http://www.videosift.com/video/America-Rules-England-Sucks

[Ferret Annica]

10. I am leaving this site after the election over it. Who needs this?

I became a Pacific Green because I tired of Democratic party hypocrisy, and believe me, I went back for a week to vote the primary for Obama, but I will never, ever do that again. I am proud to be a Green, and a former Democrat.

Recommended too by the way.

[Guaranteed]

16. "Democrat Party"- Nice! nt

[Ferret Annica]

25. Yup, spell checker error

I broke my wrists and lower arms so badly ten years ago I can no longer touch type and use it to repair damage to words my clumsier fingers do to them. I obviously did a key hit error mis-spelling, then did not pay close enough to the choice the checker gave me.

Thanks for the heads up, as I like to be accurate, like to write, and deeply miss how fast I used to be able to type.

[Zhade]

36. Just curious, how'd that happen?

NT!

[Ferret Annica]

39. A security guard pulled my rope during a tree cutting protest

on 23 July 1998 in Eugene, Oregon at the Nike Store construction site. He precipitated my fall by fighting my climb after he clambered up the fence grabbing a loop of rope on the back of my climbing bag.

I jettisoned the equipment he had hold of and continued to free climb with pole gaffs, which work on incense cedars with minimal damage to the tree. I fell three stories to the sidewalk as this tree was by 5th Street right next to it and the road.

I was in a coma for a week, busted up my arms bad enough to need hip bone grafts. I broke my knee too, but this has healed well, I don't even notice it.

This was a cover story twice that month about this story at the Register Guard in Eugene, Oregon who can corroborate this incident should anyone doubt me enough to want to verify. It was ten years ago this last July that this happened.

I have done lots of sits in the forest and in the city besides this one attempt. Though I have not done so in a while, this next year I expect the BLM cutting plans in Oregon will put me back aloft.

Michael J. McCarthy

EARTH FIRST!

[Marrah_G]

84. Ouch Mike............I'm so sorry that happened to you.

[uppityperson]

116. Ow ow ow ow ow. thank you for your service.

[IndianaJones]

11. have you seen the way gays are treated here sometimes? thats tame. nt.

[justiceischeap]

17. Just because it's tame doesn't make it right. (eom)

[IndianaJones]

18. point being....much worse is tolerated when it comes to gays. nt.

[justiceischeap]

26. Point taken, just don't want folks to read your OP & think it's cool to "tame" it down. nt

[backscatter712]

12. I prefer the pejorative "assclown" myself...

or "douchenozzle"

[buddysmellgood]

19. I agree with assclown. I prefer asshole as the gender neutral derogatory reference,

but I must take exception to douchenozzle. I come from a long line of douchenozzles. We have served our country proudly and don't deserve the slight.

[Guaranteed]

21. LOL

Alright, as long as we're tearing our fellow humans down on the correct terms.


This is an interesting thread so far.

[SwampG8r]

63. and the nozzle has the best job too

[NYC_SKP]

15. I'm always wanting to call some out there "cocksucker", but didn't know if it was...

acceptable.

But, especially when folks lie, I wanna call em "cocksucker"!

Man or woman, sometimes McCain is one, sometime it's Palin, or Joe the Plumber, I hate how they lie and in my mind I'm thinking that word.

In other cases, I'm thinking "asshole".

Among my friends, "cocksucker" has never been an offensive term and I hang with some pretty progressive people in the Bay Area, and have since the seventies.

I guess times change.

[buddysmellgood]

27. I agree, but I feel the same way about fucker. I don't see why that's an insult.

Why do people say "Fuck you!" Is it suggesting rape? It must be, otherwise it's like saying "I hope you get laid you dirty SOB."
Ahh Mr. Carlin...we miss you.

[TheBigotBasher]

76. lol

That made my day.

[NYCGirl]

110. Lenny Bruce used to point out that "Fuck You" was actually wishing something

good would happen to someone. He suggested that a better putdown would be "Unfuck You." And that "cocksucker" is not gender-specific.

[Ferret Annica]

49. Times change, but variations of "some of my best friends..."

sidebar comments meant to put icing on the dung of true bigotry never die.

Some of your friends indeed. Is that why you relished using the words in question the word three times in your post? In memory of their alleged enlightened state?

[ruggerson]

22. Many of them don't give a shit about gay issues either

amusing they've fooled themselves into thinking they are progressives.

[IndianaJones]

24. liberals...not progressives. nt.

[ruggerson]

30. they're neither

[QC]

38. It takes a lot more than just not liking George W. Bush

to make one a progressive.

A good many folks here haven't figured that one out yet.

Hell, Pat Buchanan utterly loathes the Shrub, but that doesn't make him a progressive.

[Lisa0825]

23. I don't think I have ever used either term, and neither has a place at DU. nt

[Raster]

94. Thank you!

[WillyT]

28. ...

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDWTp5as1vE

:shrug:

[undeterred]

29. Lots of thoughtless namecalling and swearing around here.

If you complain, they complain about censorship.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Santro]

32. I approve this message. Except the last paragraph. :)

[WillyT]

37. And What About "MotherFucker" ???

My dad was a motherfucker.

:evilgrin:

:spank:

[LeftCoast]

47. I have never once heard the term c*ck-s*cker applied to a woman

I think that pretty clearly makes it a homophobic term.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

122. I've never heard the term "motherfucker" applied to a woman.

Does that make it homophobic too?

[Barrymores Ghost]

143. If it is, then God help Wendy Liebman!

Wendy Liebman: I know this great act I want you to see...it's a family, the Cavanaugh's - Ann and William. They're eating dinner, and they just finish, and their maid comes in and she clears the plates. And they have two children, Betsy and Timmy. And Ann suggests that they all go into the drawing room, where Ann then braids Betsy's beautiful blonde hair. The husband, he plays chess with Timmy - and then the maid comes in with strawberries and whipped cream, and they all eat a nice dessert. And that's the act.

Penn Jillette: What do you call an act like that?

Wendy Liebman: The Cocksucking Motherfuckers.

[mitchum]

162. "I married a cocksucker, and I am very glad for that"...

- Lenny Bruce

And so is mitchum

[Sebastian Doyle]

33. I thought Queen was an awesome band. Is that OK?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D99n9f3vU4

[Zhade]

34. Kick/rec against hate.

NT!

[cliffordu]

35. K&R against hate of all stripe.

[FatDave]

41. An honest question on this topic.

Is "drama queen" an offensive term? My understanding is it's queen in a prima donna way and not a gay way. But if I'm wrong, I'd like to know.

[Phredicles]

51. Thew biggest drama queen I know of is Brett Favre,

which I'm definitely using in the prima donnish sense.:D

[Jamastiene]

42. It's disheartening considering the fact that Skinner himself said

DU does not condone that type of bigotry.

[Tesibria]

43. thank you ~eom

[Two Americas]

44. recommended

Important. Needed to be said. Thanks.

[Connonym]

45. hopelessly naive here

I hadn't known cocksucker was considered homophobic until I learned it on DU a couple of years ago. Now I'm embarrassed again that I don't know that queen is also homophobic. I'm serious when I say that I don't want to use offensive language so would someone be so kind as to explain the queen thing to me? As in like "drama queen"? or "drag queen"? I call my daughter a drama queen but I always assumed it meant queen in the way of monarchy -- the same way you'd say "king of thieves" or "drug king", i.e., one who is the top in their field

[FreeState]

57. It depends on how you use it...

Drag Queen and Drama Queen are not homophobic genreally - however calling someone a "queen" or "queeny" is - its taking a female and applying it to men as an insult (not to mention how sexist it is).

Drama Queen started as gay slang and took on mainstream acceptance as a term - it was never used as a homophobic insult in the gay community.

[Connonym]

61. thanks for explaining that

I appreciate it :)

[TheBigotBasher]

88. Queen is not necessarily offensive

Maybe it is a UK thing, but I am happy to be a cocksucking queen, probably because I am (if as an earlier poster said I get lucky) and it is not even a word that I find offensive if used against me. Queen is definitely not used as a term of offence by straight people in the UK. It is more likely to be used by the gay community about some fool getting too wasted at a club (eg me(ie look at that old queen)).

At 38 I am a fat old Queen and proud.

I find fag far more offensive than Queen and that is still used to offend as well as Queer.

With regard to outing Republicans and calling them Queens etc. If they are closet cases voting for legislation that works against gay rights, then call them on it. They deserve it.

Some great old Queens from the UK
http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/Dale42q/?action=view¤t=InmanTribute.flv

John Inman


http://images.contactmusic.com/dn/sir+elton+john_855_18295483_0_0_13857_300.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Pu8hET2yo
Sir Elton John




"Her Majesty" The Queen getting to inspect her boys and gals in uniform ;-)

[crispini]

92. LOL

:spray:

[olkaz]

46. jesus christ, can we not be offended by anything?

Sure, it's probably not cool, but this whole "OMG WTF DID HE TYPE!!!" is at least as ridiculous.

Fucking alert the offending message and move along. Jesus christ.

[Zuiderelle]

105. Let me guess... You are a straight, white male.

[olkaz]

123. Does my demographic information render my opinion meaningless?

This is **such** a good opportunity to get offended!

[Zuiderelle]

152. No, it merely makes you more likely to not have had bigoted language directed at you.

[TheKentuckian]

48. When did cocksucker stop being an escalation on motherfucker?

And when did it even become a gay bash? I've never heard that phrase used as a bash on gays, even from open and proud gay bashers.

When did context and words become divorced? Are we just going to now parse a word out of the context it was being used in to make some tortured point.

Damn, this is nearly to the point of if someone says that Obama is a bad motherfucker, that no matter what context its in that some will be upset that some said Obama was bad as in evil or contemptible, others will be upset that that he was being cursed, and others will claim the first group is implying he can't please his wife.

Hearts worn on sleeves are easily broken.

[Quixote1818]

56. I agree

It was George Carlin who made the word "Cocksucker" famous and I never got that he was talking about gays. I always thought the term meant "ass hole" or simply someone you don't like. Both men and women can be "cocksuckers".

[FreeState]

58. It is gay bashing when you call a man that

who else sucks cocks? Seriously - straight men dont. Its used as an insult to demean a person as either female or not manly.

[Quixote1818]

62. That is not what the word is usually used for

George Carlin uses the word at the end of this video and he was basically using it to say they were "ass holes" or "jerks" or people who take advantage of others. Carlin was very gay friendly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KReZyAZLI0

However, if gays take offense to the term then I personally will try to steer clear of it.

[Raster]

79. George Carlin is dead. And yes, cocksucker is offensive.

[FreeState]

161. Oh thanks for telling me that slur that was yelled at me all through my youth actually did not mean

what everyone who hurled it at me thought it did. Thanks for clearing that up! Really! /sarcasm

[last_texas_dem]

72. I agree with you

I've never heard of anyone calling someone a "cocksucker" to imply that the person they're directing the comment toward is gay or "seems gay" or literally sucks cocks. Just as I'm pretty sure people who throw around the term "motherfucker" aren't announcing that they truly suspect the person they're directing the comment toward has sex with their mother. People who call someone an "asshole" don't literally think the person they're discussing is that bodily orifice, etc.

I can see not using the terms because they're graphic and crude (I don't use the first two, but do use the last one out of habit- even though it is a gross term to throw around, IMHO), but I have a hard time seeing "cocksucker," in its standard usage as a homophobic slur.

>>>>>When did context and words become divorced? Are we just going to now parse a word out of the context it was being used in to make some tortured point.>>>>>

Regarding the last question; yeah, probably; this is DU after all...

[TexasObserver]

50. Indeed. And the Mann Coulter shit is more of same.

[last_texas_dem]

74. I agree with you regarding the intentions of some but not all

Seriously, when discussions about Ann Coulter used to happen more on here, I agreed with the folks who said she looked like a man. She looks like she has something resembling an Adam's apple on her neck and some other mannish features. In saying so, I was never implying that she was transgendered or a man in drag or along those lines. I was saying she was a woman that looked mannish. I am not sure why any comment along those lines is now considered to be a homophobic slur by many on here simply because some posters were saying something beyond her simply being a slightly masculine-looking woman. In comparison, I have seen several posters dog Sarah Palin for her alleged mannish features and, rightly, no one is calling them out for being homophobic. I'm not sure why there is a double standard here.

[TexasObserver]

100. I just don't get the "she looks like a man" comments. She's horrible on the merits.

I've read enough comments by GLBT members here to know it bugs them, and that's reason enough for me not to go there. Simple courtesy, if nothing else.

[LostinVA]

147. Because it IS transphobic

[last_texas_dem]

151. No, it's not.

At least not always. Someone can comment on a man's or woman's features looking like the opposite gender's w/o any suggestion that they are transgender.

[Sebastian Doyle]

158. Well, Moosealini's got 5 kids

So I doubt anybody would seriously accuse her of being TG.

Coulter, on the other hand may very well be so. Not that being transgendered is a bad thing, but it definitely would make her more of a hypocrite, given all the homophobic crap that spews out of her mouth.

[Kajsa]

52. Thank you!

I'm sick of it too.

:(

[Qanisqineq]

53. I agree

I am also offended by the term "douchebag" or "douche" being used. Or saying some guy "cries like a little girl". Maybe I am just getting too easily offended lately but "asshole" applied to men and women is about all I can put up with anymore.

[Quixote1818]

54. "Queen" I can see but "Cocksucker" is not a word I connect with the gay community

George Carlin used the word all the time and I don't think he meant to connect it to gays. It was just a term he used that he probably meant to mean "ass hole" or "prick". Taken literally I can see how people might take it as derogatory toward gays but I never made that connection personally.

[Terran]

59. I admit I didn't see the context of how "queen" was used, but

as a gay man who's been around a long time, I'm telling you guys that's it's NOT a homophobic term. In fact I don't even feel that straight people generally have any particular understanding of all its nuances. It's basically the gay (male) version of "nigga"--it can be used both affectionately and dismissively and several shades of meaning in between. If some moron tried to use it to insult McCain or Palin, I doubt they did it correctly. And if someone referred to one of them as a "drama queen" or some such, there's nothing about that is going to offend any *reasonable* gay man.

Now "cocksucker"...that's a different tune entirely.

[Curtland1015]

60. Who, besides characters in 1970's BBC shows, throws around the word queen as an insult anyway?

Seriously... I never hear it.

Also, as Terran said "Drama Queen" is not the same as "Queen".

[Terran]

64. gay men still use it, trust me

And I'm not really saying that 'drama queen' "isn't the same as" 'queen'--it's just one usage of the word out of many.

Ok, let me explain that, at least: when 'queen' is modified by any noun in that way, it's being used to convey that the person so labeled is embarrassingly enamored of that thing. Back in the day there were some rather politically incorrect usages of the phrase to indicate white gay men who were sexually interested only in black men or Latin men or Asian men. It really only fits in a gay context, although 'drama queen' is one of those cross-over concepts that everyone knows now (but WE invented it, lol); so if someone referred to McCain as a something-queen, it really doesn't work well...but I also seriously doubt many gay men here who saw it were offended.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

126. Err...

I'm pretty sure "drama queen" originally referred to certain actresses on soap operas.

[Terran]

145. doubtful

Although I could imagine a connection to soap operas because of the probably large number of gay men who work on them. But no, I am certain that gay men's use of "drama queen" far predates any regular use by straights. It probably dates back to the 1950's, at a minimum.

[TheBigotBasher]

135. We do here in the UK

but the UK has changed since the 70s. (Despite having a Labour government £billions in debt - the 70s one did that on behalf of the "workers" the millenium labour government ended up there on the behalf of the Bush / Blair legacy)

[leftofthedial]

65. I've never called anyone not named Elizabeth "Queen"

you cocksucker.

[mhatrw]

66. That's right, you motherfucking homophobes! n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

67. NEWSFLASH: Homophobic does not automatically equal closeted gay.

While it's obvious that some bigots like Larry Craig are self-hating hypocrites, it's not true of the vast majority of them. Homophobia correlates far more with traits like conservatism, authoritarianism, and misogyny. The most virulent and violent homophobes I've ever known were straight males.

[TheBigotBasher]

89. Does not automatically mean closeted gay

but a very large percentage of homophobes are.

However this is not really the point. If that person happens to be a "closet case", Republican (or even Democrat for that matter) who is voting against gay rights issues should they be called out on it and should they have directed at them the names that they would have probably used against the LGBT community?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

155. Define "very large percentage"

What percent of homophobes are closeted gays? 20? 40? 70? How do you know?

[TheBigotBasher]

164. I shall go and "google"

There was actually research done on it.

This is not the same as saying all those "in the closet" are homophobes.

[TheBigotBasher]

165. One such study

WASHINGTON -- Psychoanalytic theory holds that homophobia -- the fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort and aversion that some ostensibly heterosexual people hold for gay individuals -- is the result of repressed homosexual urges that the person is either unaware of or denies. A study appearing in the August 1996 issue of the Journal of Abnormal Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association (APA), provides new empirical evidence that is consistent with that theory.

Researchers at the University of Georgia conducted an experiment involving 35 homophobic men and 29 nonhomophobic men as measured by the Index of Homophobia scale. All the participants selected for the study described themselves as exclusively heterosexual both in terms of sexual arousal and experience.

Each participant was exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual and lesbian videotapes (but not necessarily in that order). Their degree of sexual arousal was measured by penile plethysmography, which precisely measures and records male tumescence.

Men in both groups were aroused by about the same degree by the video depicting heterosexual sexual behavior and by the video showing two women engaged in sexual behavior. The only significant difference in degree of arousal between the two groups occurred when they viewed the video depicting male homosexual sex: 'The homophobic men showed a significant increase in penile circumference to the male homosexual video, but the control men did not.'

Broken down further, the measurements showed that while 66% of the nonhomophobic group showed no significant tumescence while watching the male homosexual video, only 20% of the homophobic men showed little or no evidence of arousal. Similarly, while 24% of the nonhomophobic men showed definite tumescence while watching the homosexual video, 54% of the homophobic men did.

When asked to give their own subjective assessment of the degree to which they were aroused by watching each of the three videos, men in both groups gave answers that tracked fairly closely with the results of the objective physiological measurement, with one exception: the homophobic men significantly underestimated their degree of arousal by the male homosexual video.

Do these findings mean, then, that homophobia in men is a reaction to repressed homosexual urges, as psychoanalysis theorizes? While their findings are consistent with that theory, the authors note that there is another, competing theoretical explanation: anxiety. According to this theory, viewing the male homosexual videotape may have caused negative emotions (such as anxiety) in the homophobic men, but not in the nonhomophobic men. As the authors note, 'anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection,' and so it is also possible that 'a response to homosexual stimuli is a function of the threat condition rather than sexual arousal per se. These competing notions can and should be evaluated by future research.'

Article: 'Is Homophobia Associated With Homosexual Arousal?' by Henry E. Adams, Ph.D., Lester W. Wright, Jr., Ph.D. and Bethany A. Lohr, University of Georgia, in Journal of Abnormal Psychology, Vol. 105, No. 3, pp 440-445

[mrreowwr_kittty]

169. That study is interesting but the sample size is insufficient to extrapolate globally

Also, the researchers note that anxiety may be a contributing factor in the response.

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

68. Ween - Homo Rainbow (GWB Video)

Ween - Homo Rainbow (GWB Video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlDkaY95ZDQ&feature=related



Every little thing is gonna work out fine.

[sweetpotato]

69. cocksucker is GOOD thing, right?

That's what MRaphopkin says.

[renie408]

83. That's what my husband keeps telling me. n/t

[Raster]

90. No. What MRaphophkin is telling you is that YOU sucking HIS cock is good.

To call someone a "cocksucker" is never meant as a compliment or a positive affirmation.

[No Elephants]

70. I am so very sorry anyone has to put up with bigotry, especially from Dems,

conscious or not. You are so right to push back. Thanks for taking a stand.

[Colobo]

71. To me, "cocksucker" has no gender or orientation.

It reflects the idea of a suck up- someone who can't think clearly because has some other person's dick in his/her mouth.

For example, Sean Hannity IS a cocksucker. Dude is always sucking up to the GOP's ideological dick.

However, if that term is offensive to gay DUers- I apologize for using it and I promise I'll never use it again.

[Raster]

91. It is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. And I don't give a rat's ass if Carlin used it or Lenny Bruce used it...

or who-the-fuck used it. IT IS OFFENSIVE TO GAYS.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

113. You know what offends me?

The stereotype that gays are a bunch of couch-fainting ninnies, and it burns me up when I see that stereotype spread on DU.

[Dr Fate]

137. I think your post might sum up my feelings as well. n/t

n/t

[goletian]

167. ass kisser is a slur against people with ass fetishes then. ass kisser offensive to assmen.

[mitchum]

176. Lenny Bruce was PERSECUTED far more than you can ever imagine...

in your most paranoid fantasies.
He was arrested for merely saying the word "cocksucker"
Have you ever been arrested for the act?

[terrya]

73. Laugh at me if you want, but I get very sad seeing that kind of thing here.

Damn it, we're supposed to be progressives. We're supposed to respect GLBT people here. Hell, Skinner himself recently said there's no place for homophobia here. I put it in my sig line.

When I see rather obvious homophobia here, I wonder if I've accidentally wandered into Free Republic. Because hateful bigotry is what THEY do. We shouldn't be doing this.

Rightly, correctly, racism has NO place here. Rightly, correctly, sexism has NO place here. Racism and sexism are vile, unconscionable and should not be a part of our society. Especially on Democratic Underground. And homophobia is just as bad as racism and sexism. And using it to point out Republican hypocrisy doesn't make it any more acceptable.

I think there are people at Democratic Underground who don't want to see GLBT people here. I think there are people who are so obviously homophobic that they are disgusted at the very idea of GLBT DU'ers. They frankly loathe us. And they certainly don't give any thought to being insensitive toward us.

[pecwae]

75. Why does this surprise you?

Apparently, those slurs are totally acceptable.

[mitchum]

77. See: Lenny Bruce

[EstimatedProphet]

78. Not only that, why does it happen here?

DU has a number of GLBT folks, and they deserve every bit as much respect as any other poster on the board. Why is it OK to post slurs like that here? Would it be OK to post "kike", or "spic", or something else along those lines as a put-down? Of course not.

[renie408]

81. I would like to note that you don't have to be gay to be a cocksucker.

Or at least that's what my husband keeps telling me.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

82. One does not have to be

a male to be a cocksucker.

In fact... Until now, I hadn't given it any thought.

If someone is using the word "fag" here, alert on it. And I guess I haven't seen the "queen" thread yet.

[comtec]

85. Because THEY find it insulting

I don't, I like a nice cock now n then.
but because it hurts THEM and insults THEM, we use it.
I can insult you by accusing you of voting W, and McLame
to US that's the insult.

Insults vary by tradition, culture, language, and belief system.

We use those, because it hurts THEM!

Because sometimes i don't WANT to be a GOOD fucking liberal, because of what THEY have done to US!

fucking cock sucking queers!

(with MASS apologies to all the wonderful, cocksucking queers who fuck, im so sorrry)

[terrya]

86. People DO realize, of course, that if one straight guy calls another straight guy a cocksucker...

it's NOT a compliment.

There IS this realization, correct?

[alwysdrunk]

87. Comments like this: The reason "liberal" has the taint that it does

You, and many other people on DU and in the world. Always, looking for something to be offended by, trying to use any small excuse to criticize people as being hate-filled and bigots. Most people don't want to be associated with that type of thought process, which is associated with being "liberal".


It's really a shame. Homophobia is a real problem in our country. You aren't helping anything by saying that use of a swear word makes one homophobic.

[Raster]

93. How fucking dare you? I don't have to look very fucking hard to be offended by homophobic bigots.

And yes, cocksucker is offensive. And yes, using the word "cocksucker" is a homophobic slur.

[Lance_Boyle]

96. then don't use the word

you will find that most of DU finds the language police more offensive than the words they would ban. You *are* straining at this point to force others to share your manufactured rage at someone's use of a word. Thick skin is needed for online interaction with others. You will be offended sometimes, as will I. You deal with it and move on. You don't seek to police the way others speak. Nobody likes the language police.

[Raster]

99. No. I do not have to move on. Per Skinner, homophobic bigotry, including slurs, will not be

tolerated. Don't tell me I'm straining. I am a Gay man that finds the homophobia AND the condescension to GLBT persons appalling. And as for "most of DU," I've been a subscription member and posting for years. Don't lecture me, nor try to tell me what "most of DU" finds offensive. We have the language police because some members of our community can't or won't moderate their own usage of obvious slurs and slights.

[Bluenorthwest]

101. God man.

You are telling someone what they can and can not say, while calling others the police. Wow. If the slurs you dig are ok, then all slurs must be ok too, you know? And that is not going to happen in America. And it shouldn't either.

[last_texas_dem]

118. I don't think Person A telling Person B

not to use words that Person B finds offensive is quite comparable to Person B telling everyone what language is or isn't offensive and not to use it.

[last_texas_dem]

103. I agree re: the language police

I have seen several people on here claim that the criteria for whether or not a word is offensive is if they or someone else on here is offended by it. To me, this idea is ridiculous. Much of the language people use on here, regularly, consists of words that I don't use and a handful that I think are gross. But what authority do I have to tell them not to use such language?

I'm sure just about everyone on here is offended or made uncomfortable by something (whether a word, a joke, a reference etc.) that, since there isn't a group of people making it an issue, isn't regarded as something offensive and something to be avoided. Which sounds good to me; I'm all for DU allowing as much freedom of speech as possible.

Additionally, w/o calling anyone out, there are a number of posters on here who raise stinks about particular types of language that offend them but seemingly make no effort to avoid language that others find offensive.

[LostinVA]

149. If posters find the "language police" more offensive than offensive language, they should leave DU

There are plenty of other forums that LOVE using racist, sexist, and homophobic language.

Using said language is also against DU rules.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[last_texas_dem]

150. Suggesting that someone should leave DU is against DU rules as well.

FWIW...

[Zuiderelle]

107. You might understand if you weren't alwysdrunk.

:eyes:

[ItNerd4life]

127. ROFL.

Wasn't following what the poster said, but I almost choked laughing!

[IndianaJones]

141. heh. nt.

[QC]

142. I don't want to hear about your taint. n/t

[LostinVA]

148. Don't DARE to tell me what I can or can't be offended by

Sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. language POISONS a culture. And, to hav eit be rationalized on DU is unforgivable.

[bettyellen]

95. they should kick out all the homophobes already- this place is lousy with them.

[Zuiderelle]

111. Word.

[npincus]

97. what's wrong with "cocksucker"? What about "dickwad" or "prick"?

Is calling someone a "jerkoff" OK?

Personally, I don't use any of this language around my child.

[Bluenorthwest]

98. A friend once noticed a look on my face when he used the

word 'cocksucker'. Being a good straight guy, he asked if that offened me as a gay man. "No", I said, "but the use of the term as a form of derision makes me uncomfortable because I know your wife, and for your sake I hope she is one, and for her sake I hope you don't really hold contempt for cocksuckers." Blew his mind. But he got it.
Think about it.

[npincus]

102. I never thought of it that way.

Well, a slur is a slur is a slur. Either comparing someone to a piece of anatomy, or to fellating that piece isn't very nice. But the much more widespread "motherf*cker" is especially nasty, though it doesn't seem to favor any particular orientation.

Thanks for a new perspective on a dirty word! :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

112. I like fucking, in general.

Does that mean "fucker" should be out of the lexicon?

Think about it.

[Bluenorthwest]

131. My point is not that anything should be 'out of the lexicon'

My point is the words you use say more about yourself than the person you are attempting to paint, almost always. When I say you I mean all of us. What we say about another is usually more telling about ourselves.
So while I would say use 'fucker' as a word of derision all you'd like, understand that what is conveyed is not just your view of the fucker in question, but lots of information about yourself as well. That 's my point.
I never said any word should be removed. In fact I said the word did not offend me personally, and I said that clearly. First read, then think about it. Don't infer. Read. I said 'not offended' and said 'it tells about you, not about me'. No call for removal of anything from any lexicon. That is what you infered. And that is my point. The listener will always infer. And so it can be wise to know what one might be implying.
My point is that your lexicon is your calling card, that's all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

134. Well then you should have said that in the first place.

Because what you said was that use of the word "cock-sucker" as a perjorative implies contempt for the act of sucking cocks, or those who suck cocks. Which is nonsense.

All human languages of expletives, and those expletives revolve around two things- sex acts, and going to the bathroom.

Cocksucker is just another perjorative involving a sex act. It's identical to fucker. Or ass kisser. I like getting my ass kissed, that doesn't mean I should get offended by the colloquial use of the word "ass kisser."

[Bluenorthwest]

154. It is NOT identical to cocksucker

Fucker is not the equivilent to cocksucker in that we are all fuckers, but not near enough of us are cocksuckers. If a fucker calls a fucker a fucker, well fuck it. But if a heterosexual man calls someone a cocksucker, he's not speaking as one of them. Fucker is universal. Cocksucker is not, it is speific to a portion of the population. So you are the one spouting non sense. I also never said that the use of that word implies anything. I said my friend's use of the term was more telling than he'd really like.
It is the difference between saying "people are idiots" and "___ish people are idiots" pure and simple.
And actually, I did not say that using your fav word as a perjorative implies comtempt. I pointed out that comtempt might be inferred. Which is my entire point.

I come from show biz. There is no word under the sun that offends me in and of itself. The context is all. The worst of words can be tools of great power for the good. Depends on how it is used, like any other object. The sweetest of language can be a tool of control and violence as well. So it is all about what the one using the word is after, in my book.
And again, I've not ever said I was offened by anyone's use of these words. I've said I'm informed by it in ways the speaker might not really wish to be sharing. That's all I've said.
And most of us don't consider 'ass kisser' to be sexual. At all. The fact that you do, well, good luck in your pursuit of happiness. Hope you find many a kisser to kiss your ass, if that's what turns your biscuit. Takes all kinds. A bit scat and fetishy for my tastes, but to each their own, of course.

[Eyes_wide_ open]

153. Best post in the thread! n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. What about "cock-sucking, pussy eating prankster?"

It's gender neutral.

[Phredicles]

106. Yeah, but now you're dissing the omnisexual!

[olkaz]

132. It's a line from a Geto Boys track.

[IndianaJones]

108. your grandkids told you that one, didn't they? nt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

109. Michael fucking Bolton told me that one.

So how about it?

[IndianaJones]

115. such a potty mouth, so hip for an older gentlemen. keep on truckin'. nt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

117. When you're a grown-up vulgar words aren't such a big deal.

:shrug:

[IndianaJones]

119. especially when you've been a grownup for decades, huh wildman? nt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

124. That's a big ten four.

You also get better at winning arguments.

[IndianaJones]

125. surely...and making bigoted comments on the sly. rock on old fella. nt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

128. Please refer to any bigoted comment.

Put up or shut up.

[Divine Discontent]

120. can't read their comments - got em on ignore - try it you'll like it! ha

[Sebastian Doyle]

160. Now there's a slur, if I've ever heard one!

You really want to insult someone, call them "Michael Bolton" :rofl:


Bolton, Michael (Mulletus Cheesicus Lameassus), circa 1994

[skooooo]

121. To answer your question...

..because people are full of contradictions.

[TK421]

129. I've become fond of "douche-canoe" lately...

:D

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

130. Native Americans used to use canoes.

How dare you, sir.

[TK421]

133. Pfffft!!! I forgot about our Native American posters...sorry for the offense!

:P

[Barrymores Ghost]

144. If they're not made of cedar bark, then it's okay. (nt)

[Dr Fate]

136. I guess the whole point of certain types of put-downs is to be crass & offensive.

I guess people might call McCain a "cocksucker" b/c its a funny, offensive image.

I can see both sides of the argument here- I never call people either of these words but I dont really see their use in most contexts as intentional gay bashing either.

It's true-not everyone is polite or considerate in their choice of put-downs.

[BreweryYardRat]

139. I've never used "queen" as an insult, and I've been trying to stop using "cocksucker."

I think "cumguzzler" works better -- sucking cock isn't a bad thing. Indiscriminately gulping down lots of cum (male or female) isn't safe sex.

[stevenleser]

140. I had no idea these were considered offensive to gays...

I never use them anyway, but now I am glad I don't.

It was interesting to read the post of the person from the UK who noted that in that part of the world, those words are not considered insulting to gays. I'll never forget my first trip to the UK when I was around 15 years old when someone first told me they were going to go "smoke a fag". I had no idea what was meant by that phrase.

[LostinVA]

146. You are 100% right

Just like when Ashley Todd was repeatledly called a whore, c*nt, b*tc h last week. Posters didn't get why I was so pissed. Or the "Mann Coulter" thing.

If you think that way, you should be a member of teh GOP.

k&r

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

157. How about the word "suck?"

As in "the suckiest bunch of sucks who ever sucked."

Because the unspoken object of the term is "cock," and simply extending the logic present in this thread, it would be homophobic too.

And that would fucking suck.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

156. Why would anyone use Queen as a put down?

I love that band!

[BoneDaddy]

159. The republican =fag nonsense is ridiculous

but I like using the word cocksucker when appropriate.

Let's win this first and then talk word police later.

[mitchum]

163. What a drag

ooops!

[goletian]

166. cocksucker is a gay slur now? thats silly.

[last_texas_dem]

178. After reading this thread today, I happened to be reading Matt Taibbi's "The Return of Rove"

article in Rolling Stone... I think it provides a useful example of how, in my experience, the term "cocksucker" is most often used:

Re: Rove, Taibbi writes: "It doesn't take brains to compare a triple-amputee war veteran to Osama bin Laden; you just have to be a mean, rotten cocksucker."

In this sentence, where is the implication that Rove is gay? Where is the implication that he literally sucks cocks? The article is referencing his political tactics, not his sexual proclivities. And if we say replaced "cocksucker" with "fucker" it wouldn't really change things. Sure, it's being used as slur, but it's slurring someone for engaging in oral sex about as much as calling someone a "fucker" is slurring them for engaging in fornication. In other words, not at all.

[Raster]

168. To those that don't think "cocksucker" is a gay slur, I ask you, when you use the word

are you using it in a positive or a negative? In other words, are you putting someone down or giving them positive affirmation? 99 times out of 100, it is a sexual slur, and usually spouted off by a STRAIGHT MAN. So tell me straight men, honestly, when you call someone a "cocksucker" are you meaning something positive or negative? Tell you what, do you have a son? Why don't you call him "cocksucker," see how he likes it. I mean, after all, if it is such a positive, non-slur term, why not use it often for male persons you really care about?

And if you have any Gay friends, why don't you ask them what they think. Not what YOU think, what THEY think?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

170. Could you explain that 1 time out of 100 it's not a sexual slur?

"Tell you what, do you have a son? Why don't you call him "cocksucker," see how he likes it."

Ok, I'll do that and get back to you.

[goletian]

171. you make a strong argument, but im going to have to say, no.

cock sucker has always been used to describe unpleasant, forcible men, etymologically, ones who would force others to perform oral sex on them. its not about homosexuals, although i can see why it would be seen that way. besides, homosexuals are typically associated with anal sex, not oral. if anything, itd make more sense to consider it a slur against women, using this line of reasoning. but really, its neither; its not actually meant to associate men with effeminacy or homosexuality, not in common use anyway.

[Raster]

173. In your straight guy mind gay men are more associated with anal sex than oral sex.

Not so in the gay male community. There is a sizable number of gay men that do not participate in anal sex--giving or receiving. If there is one sexual act that is most common to all gay men the world over, it is oral sex. And think about it, when have you, or would you, call a woman a "cocksucker." Probably only during some type of sexual encounter, and probably not in a truly negative meaning. No, you as a straight man, would most commonly use the term "cocksucker" when talking about another man and probably in a negative fashion.

on edit: I mean no disrespect of any kind when I refer to straight guys. Hell, some of my best friends are straight guys.

I'm bowing out of this discussion. I've said my piece and I'm moving on.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

174. Well then doesn't that defeat your argument?

Because last I checked, "cocksucker" was a more common perjorative than "assfucker."

[Raster]

175. No. Not at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

177. LOL.

OK.

:crazy:

[TheKentuckian]

172. Whatever, people's faith is regularly insulted, derided, and insulted

and I'll add quite intentionally, without any regard to those folk's feelings and that is accepted.

I can also say people are Democrats for a large array of issues and it is idiotic to say if someone uses or even defends a phrase (because I didn't call any of you motherfuckers or any motherfuckers in general a Queen or a cocksucker but reserve to do so, should it be required) should join the GOP. Maybe they don't agree with GOP economics or foreign policies. Perhaps they believe believe in equality of access and rights but lack the sensitivity to odd and end phrases. Perhaps, some believe they are they're brother and sister keepers and work for a social safety net. Others, strive against the establishment of religion as the basis of law.
Some folks are repelled by the rampant anti-intellectualism and want more focus and resources for science and learning. A lot simply believe that government has a role beyond interstate trade and the military.
There are certainly other reasons and issues as well and I'm sure people have varied belief systems that cover some, many, or all of the planks of the platform.

Big tent means a variety of view points that may or may not EXACTLY converge with any particular person's belief systems and with some levels of patience, acceptance, and thickness of skin is required.
For example a pacifist has to come to terms with the fact that many others in the party have the view that we must have a strong military that we will not hesitate to use to defend our way of life and the integrity of our country.

I personally, support the school of thought that all people should have equal standing, rights, and obligations under the law.

For another example, I don't particularly support gay marriage but then I don't particularly support hetero marriage either because I disagree with the principle that government should be involved at all in what relationships its citizens have.

Seeing that those beliefs conflicts with conditions in reality, I vote and donate for Fairness to give homosexuals equal standing, despite the conflict with another basic belief of mine that again, government should have no role in such things at all. That should indicate to sane people that I put aside my personal beliefs for the greater good of equality but that doesn't mean that I see the world as an exact carbon copy of another or even when I do, it doesn't mean I prioritize the same as they do.

I DO NOT see where one group or subgroup can define what being a Democrat is and if someone goes of the message from their lone perspective that they aren't a Democrat. Further, I believe a person is a cotton candy soft and mentally weak for even using an ignore on ANYONE. Ignore is nothing but a way to create an echo chamber to shut out views differing from your own. I'm not going to even suggest that the option not be open to you but I totally reserve the right to call you a baby if you do.