Kerry's supporters exit his campaign...

[nomaco-10]

in huge numbers to throw their support to the Clark camp in record numbers. This, and this alone has accounted for the large discrepancies in the polls, here and across the country. What else could explain the phenomenon of the plummeting poll numbers of the Kerry campaign and the unexplained upswing in the Clark camp.

Why the mass exodus from the Kerry campaign to join that of a polar opposite nominee who is clearly on the record as anti IWR? These are the growing questions that we should all be asking as the evolving leading player on the world's stage.

Please tell me that in this crucial time in our country, when the very balance of democracy is being held up to scrutiny across the rest of the world, that you are not basing your vote on something as transient as who looks better in a uniform and served their country the best in a war that was the most worthwhiled.

The very fact that Clark could come out of complete obscurity and do this much damage to the Kerry campaign must cause many people here some serious angst. The rhetoric that has divided the democratic party and has managed to pit and split good democrats one against another, may, or not be a ploy designed by a bunch of out of touch politocrats to serve and gratify their own special interests and agendas.

Politics makes strange bedfellows, all I am asking is, rethink and reevaluate your loyalties to your candidate, and then take a good, long look at the other candidates before you accuse them of distributing tainted koolaid, or adapting the paranoid point of view that we need somebody with a bunch of pot metal embellishments on their chest with no executive or elected experience to lead our country. Could it be that the solution lies somewhere in the middle, could it be that we, the American public are much more saavy then the powers that be give us credit for? Just food for thought.

I have tried to give all these political scenarios a great deal of thought, while trying to derive an openminded opinion based on my quest for information. From the mass media, to the often confluent and fervent opinions of the messageboards and blogs I encountered across the information super highway, one thing stood out, most Americans agree on most vital issues, they just disagree on what platform, party and candidate will get us there. You see, we all have more in common here than you think.

I considered John Kerry as my fist choice early last year, but as I was presented with new options almost monthly, I eventually fell upon the Dean campaign in early June of 2003. I then studied Dennis Kucinich and then the much hyped "Draft Wes Clark" campaign. I looked and studied everyone of these capable men with much thought and care, and came away with a clear and decisive conclusion that Howard Dean, although not perfect, has a vision for what this country needs at this time and at this moment in history.

I ask everyone here to take this weekend and the long, upcoming holiday weekend to not only re-evaluate your choice of candidate, but to consider where this country is headed and what the consequences will be if we don't put aside our differences and do everything that is required of us to find some common ground and unite to get this scourge that is bush* behind us, once and for all.

[HereSince1628]

1. Can you share a link?

[dajabr]

2. Yes nomaco-10, a link please...

So I can transport myself into that big, beautiful brain of yours!

:hi:

[ldoolin]

12. I found this one interesting

http://kerryforpres.blogspot.com/

I cannot help but feel sorry for Kerry. If he hadn't voted for the IWR, he might be in the lead right now. Lesson learned - I hope.

[CMT]

3. most recent polls showing Kerry gaining support in NH

and Clark losing support.

www.americanresearchgroup.com

[mikehiggins]

25. Uh, oh, Clark down to third place in NH! RED FLAG!

To think that after three months of running for the Presidency, Clark can't do better than third out of a field of nine, coming in behind one candidate that has been running for at least TWO YEARS by his own description, and another who can be said to have been running since, well, forever.

Clark seems to be managing to struggle past three Senators, a Congressman, a former Ambassadoress and a nationally known black activist.

And then he took a couple of days break to visit old haunts in Europe and look up some former acquaintences who seem to be in a little legal difficulty dealing with the murder of men, women and children.

What is wrong with Clark? What could he have been thinking? The world wants to know.

[DemOutWest]

4. Strange

I am a Kerry Supporter and I do not know of one Kerry Supporter that has switched camps. In fact as stated above, polls are swinging in favor of Kerry over Clark.

Is this happening on the HoloDeck? Alternate Universe?

DemOutWest

[nomaco-10]

13. Then where the hell are they?

The Kerry campaign mounted a negative campaign against Dean to the benefit of Clark. If you haven't noticed this trend, then you simply haven't been a part of campaign 2004, or you you were lulled into complacency while Kerry repeated the same memes over and over again and Clark supporters stole half your base. Admit it, you got played.

[RandomUser]

21. How interesting

The Kerry campaign mounted a negative campaign against Dean to the benefit of Clark.

So now you want the Kerry campaing to mount a negative campaign against Clark to the benefit of Dean?

I'm not buying it. Someone else posted that Kerry and Clark are good friends. When their campaigns go after each other, it's with humor (chickenwings and zero bars) and not the scorched earth tactics that happen between Kerry and Dean.

Kerry and Clark supporters have a lot of respect for each other. Nothing like the flamefests between Kerry and Dean supporters.

[nomaco-10]

32. I didn't say that, don't twist my words....

Kerry thought he was the annointed front runner by the DLC along with Lieberman, your candidate was totally unprepared for the the influx of the candidates that might challenge his stances. Kerry thought his biggest competitor would be holy Joe. LMAO
Furthermore, he never recovered, not even enough to see that he was playing into the 'you might have been an officer in VN, but whoops, here comes a four star general. WHOOPS, "I only thought I had to get by Holy Joe for the nom." Your guy was left with his pants down. Don't blame Dean, blame Terry McAullife.

[RandomUser]

36. I try not to

I'm a Clark supporter. I switched from Dean to Clark when Clark entered. I like Kerry, too. Clark and Kerry are both good men.

Kerry is my number #2 right now.

I don't think Clark has his pants down at all. He's doing quite well in the grassroots and money race, considering he's only been in for a few weeks. I understand that this is a race, but I don't take glee in seeing Kerry go down like the way you're expressing yourself.

And why should I blame Dean or McAullife? Or why should Kerry supporters blame Clark? The candidates will stand or fall on their own merits.

You pick who you believe to be the best guy, and I'll do the same.

I do believe it's clear that there's a pattern here, whether orchestrated or not. Many Dean supporters (not Kerry or Clark supporters) have recently made posts in many threads expressing the sentiment that Kerry supporters should go after Clark instead of Dean. It's curious that someone external to Clark & Kerry (and who stand to gain from them attacking each other) is suggesting this, no? If this was a valid concern, don't you think it would be expressed by Clark or Kerry supporters instead of being egged on by Dean supporters?

Clark and Kerry supporters have a lot of respect of each other. This is not the same dynamic as the scorched earth, hatefilled, flamefests dynamic that exists between Dean and Kerry supporters. And neither camp wishes for it to become that way.

We're not biting.

[KittyWampus]

38. What You've Just Posted Here Is Very Different Than Your Opening Post

[nomaco-10]

41. No, not at all... take your DLC fingers out of

your ears and read the post in earnest. It will dawn on you in some milleniem what it is I said and you will be sorry for your misplaced alliance this election season.

I tried to relate to you and others on this board that we have alot more common ground then you think, but you and others let the DLC and the powers that be dictate your candidate with no deviation. I am all about choices, options and free thinking, it's called democracy.

[KittyWampus]

42. DLC? I'm A Socialist Friend....

who is looking for a Left leaning Democrat who can project a Moderate Image...

Clark, being the furthest Left on the political compass (excluding Dennis) fits the bill nicely.

How odd you'd even bring up the DLC though... since Dean is a card carrying member.

At least, I missed his speech where he denounces his involvment in the DLC... and apologises for his participation in its movement of Country's policies further to the far Right.

It must be a drag to be a Left leaning Liberal stuck supporting a Candidate with a Center RIGHT voting record.

But then with Dean that's what you get... a Center Right Candidate who projects a Liberal Image.

[nomaco-10]

44. ""I'm a Socialist Friend looking for a Left Leaning Democrat""

"Who can project a Moderate Image".
OK, I get it, you're all fluff, no substance. Ooooh, I must fall in line to make sure the most electable (in my mind) candidate gets in office even if he is a hand chosen puppet by the DLC.
What a mind bender it must have been to read the paper and get on the internet everyday and find out the "masses" actually have a mind of their own and can actually and intellctually choose a candidate that falls into their way of thinking. Who whadda thunk it, mass America actually pays attention to general elections and expects to be heard.
It must be awful to be you with the weight of the free world on your shoulders thinking I must push my comrades to the lesser of all evils for their own proletarian good. That is so 80's.

[KittyWampus]

37. The Trend I'm Sensing Is Dean Supporters Trying To Stir Crap Up

between Kerry and Clark.

There IS a battle going on... but Kerry & Clark supporters seem to have been pretty respectful of each others candidates and their records and characters.

That has been my perception.

The biggest jump in defectors that I've witnessed have been from people leaving Dean's Campaign.

[Scott Lee]

51. That's it, guys. The jig is up.

He's outted us. Let's gather up the wiretaps and astral projection machines and clear out....come on, chop chop...

[TLM]

55. Yeah... we have a mole in each campaign...

they were responsable for forcing Kerry and Clark to start taking shots at each other over chicken and candy bars.

[maddezmom]

5. why do you assume they are throwing their support

to Clark, why not like you to Dean? Once again, guess we'll all know once people start voting instead of being polled.

[oasis]

6. Make sure you share your opinion with Kerry before he signs those

mortgage documents for his house. On second thought, perhaps he can use that money to help finance the Clark campaign.

:-)

[zulchzulu]

7. I heard Clark is an alien from Planet Zinktork

Should I write about it? It's as believable as your story is.

[maddezmom]

8. sure, but you might want to put it in the lounge...hehe n/t

[nomaco-10]

28. You are a prime example of why Kerry's

campaign is in trouble. You people walked around with your fingers in your ears singing LA LA LA la la la la la...trying to muffle out all that disturbing news,... Dean is too liberal..NOT... Dean is unelectable NOT... all the while you're bored and uninspired base was thinking... Wes Clark, who, what, who??? You mean that general that has more medals than John Kerry?... hmmmmm. buh bye John....

[maddezmom]

43. what are you talking about?

I'm sorry if you have a problem with who I'll vote for, but it's my vote not yours. I don't see myself as a problem to anyone candidate of choice. And BTW I think everyone still has one. And for the record you might want to look at my posts, I've never said Dean is not electable or too liberal.

[maddezmom]

46. still waiting...Clark is my 1st choice.

It's my fault how?

[ModerateMiddle]

61. I would venture a guess

that folks like you are one of the prime reasons the total of Dean supporters get blasted on this forum. You need to get a clue, dude.

[ViognierSipper]

63. John F Kerry has more experience! Period!

Clark has not convinced me that he can handle domestic issues. Clark just talks about foreign issues. Kerry is the only one with both foreign policy and domestic policy experience behind him.
If we do not go with Kerry we will lose 2004

Go Kerry 2004

[Jim Sagle]

9. Last one out hit the lights.

[mzmolly]

10. I tend to agree. When Clark entered the race Kerry's numbers sank like a

stone.

"Why isn't Kerry going after Clark? Why is he so preoccupied w/ Dean? Kerry and Clark supporters have one thing in common... they are both convinced we need a vet as our candidate. Kerry's folks are switching to Clark and the only thing JFK wants to talk about is Dean, Dean, Dean. This guy needs to get his head in the game, or get the hell out." ~ Poster on dailykos.

I guess if I had to choose, I'd choose Kerry b/c he's paid his dues. I know Clark may appeal to the south but I am personally more comfortable with a 'tested' candidate.

[TLM]

56. Oh yeah... Kerry over Clark without a doubt.

Kerry has been sleeping on the job the last few years... but he is a democrat with a great record if you look beyond the last 3 or 4 years.

Clark isn't even close to having Kerry's Democratic creds.

[cindyw]

11. I think this post is a little late. Polls are swinging the other way now.

That being said. I like Clark.

[nomaco-10]

14. The only thing "a little late" and

a little sad is Kerry having to claw his way to second place in his own stomping ground as a taunted front runner for the nom. What is wrong with this scenario?
Kerry supporters must come to grips with this and face what went wrong and fix it, if it's not too late.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

[zulchzulu]

16. Kerry gaining ground in NH and nearly tied in Iowa

Look for some close races in Iowa and New Hampshire. As for Clark, he won't do well in either state. That being said, I like Clark...

People are just getting interested in the primaries.

[mikehiggins]

29. Sort of hard for Clark to do well in Iowa, dude.

He isn't campaigning there. As to New Hampshire, if Clark gets third place he'll be doing well.

[cindyw]

18. Your talkin' to part of the solution baby.

:dem:

[KittyWampus]

40. So Basically, This Thread Was Your Opportunity To Bash Kerry

"The only thing "a little late" and a little sad is Kerry.... "

[MaineDem]

15. The world according to nomaco-10 ?

I can appreciate the effort behind your post but would you please provide proof of these mass defections?

There is a lot of time between now and July. We can all get behind our candidate when we have one.

[nomaco-10]

17. I'm not gonna do the search for you.....

If you were on here last night, you would have seen TWO, that I remember. That should be easy to find.
No need to be terse with me, I am not making this stuff up, if you've been a Kerry supporter for any length of time, you know exactly what's going on around here and why his base has been deteriorating daily, and it's not Dean.

[MaineDem]

34. Sorry

As much as I enjoy DU I don't get my polling numbers from here.

The last numbers I got came from the Mellman Group.

And why would being a Kerry supporter for any length of time tell me what's been going on "around here"? It's not like the General Discussion Forum elects a candidate. I'll stick with the people in real primary and caucus states.

I was just wondering how you came up with your hypothesis.

[lurk_no_more]

45. So in otherwords

It's just an accusation without substance, if you want people to take you seriously you have to define what is reality and what is not and to do this you must do so with more than just your thoughts on the matter.

[ModerateMiddle]

62. TWO=droves; interesting. (nt)

[mikehiggins]

19. How nice for you that you have a candidate of your very own.

Other people have their own.

I'm unaware of a shift of Kerry supporters to the Clark campaign.

I don't think Kerry concentrated on Dean to the exclusion of Clark. I think he concentrated on Dean because he considered Dean a much more immediate and serious threat. Apparently he was right. Spending time and effort opposing Clark could be practical if Dean was stopped. Otherwise it would just be time and effort wasted.

And for the record, not supporting Dean in the primary is not quite the same as betraying the world to Bushism. We Clark supporters, for example, beleive our candidate is the Democrat with the absolute greatest chance of beating Bush in November. Humor us. If you are right we'll start getting the answer in less than a 1000 hours.

Be patient.

[robbedvoter]

20. The much hyped Draft Clark campaign? You mean "the ignored" Draft campaign

All I hear is that *D is the one and only with a grassroots movement and Clark is the "establishment candidate. I have no qualms with your choice - you are entitled to your decisions. But don't tell me I don't exist please.
Maybe kerry would be taken seriously if he didn't issue press releases about football jerseys...sheesh!
Why the bile at Clark anyway? You'd think it was Clark attacking your candidate for the past year! Anyway,
Peace!

[RandomUser]

22. Yet another attempt

by a Dean supporter to get Kerry supporters to attack Clark instead of Dean. This sentiment has been posted by several dean supporters in many threads recently.

[maddezmom]

24. it's not going to happen

Kerry is my 2nd choice.

[TexasPatriot]

27. me too

i liked the swipe they took over the football jerseys today. Very funny. Again, we see class from the Kerry camp.

[maddezmom]

30. missed that one...got a link? :)

[Scoopie]

31. Just a "tetch," as we say in the South, OT

BUT, that football jersey thing, while funny, was a bit silly. Everyone knows you can support a college team in Arkansas and a professional team in - wherever it is the Patriots are based out of now. LOL. (I'm a college football fan. I liked the Patriots way back when I was a pre-teen and Tony Eison was there, but, since that time I only know they moved, but can't remember where!!)

OK... onto the more serious issue here.
I'm sorry the poster wants to blame Clark for any real or perceived shift of supporters to Clark, but, erm, don't voters have their own minds? Aren't they supposed to be able to decide for themselves who should garner their vote? Oh wait, Gore told us we can't do that - :P - Oh, well, I'm from Tennessee. Apparently this state knows well how to ignore Gore. ;)

[blm]

26. We know their tactics.

Don't worry. Anything between Kerry and Clark I take with a grain of salt as banter between like minds.

The crap from the Dean camp is PURE deception.

[nomaco-10]

35. You still don't get it!

And that is exactly why Kerry is out. Keep throwing in your lot with the Clarkies and comiserate about Howard Dean is ahead and how you'll both surpass him, but you still don't get it! You are not ying and yang, North and South, it's so hilarious, and you all still don't get it. You have not done your candidate wisely. SAD.

[blm]

39. So you say. I trust my judgement.

Far and above anyone shilling for Dean support.

[Jerseycoa]

49. Nobody is throwing in their lot

This is a primary. We all have candidates. If you want to know who is defecting to Clark, as far as I have seen, it's Dean supporters. Kerry's have defended their candidate, from every measure of excrement on DU and defended him ably and consistently. I happen to admire it. They are shown only the respect they are due. I doubt very much Kerry's supporters are in any danger of being seduced by us. Give them some credit. Give us all some credit.

:freak:

[nomaco-10]

60. Thank you for proving my point....

You are polling only slightly above Clark at this point and NONE of you can explain where the max of your base has gone.
You would rather your votes go to Clark or Kucinich as far as any of you are concerned. Reeks of a badly run campaign as far as I can tell.

I don't give a damn anymore where you send your votes, obviously you don't either, so do you even know or care what you've been reduced to? SO SAD...

[mzmolly]

50. Yea and CNN and NBC and ???

Were all in on it. :eyes: :scared:

[mitchum]

57. Yep!

and done in such a clumsy way...

[deminflorida]

23. From what I hear Clark people are out in force working hard in...

New Hampshire...My brother who is a big GOP donor in Montgomery, Alabama even said that some of his republican people who are pissed at the Bush Administration because of the legalize illegal aliens proposal have gone up to New Hampshire and are lending a hand to the Clark campaign there...(note: just last night he told me this, and if you don't believe me, then PM me and I will give you his phone number in Alabama). I think based on reports from the primary front up there that the bottom line is Kerry is getting pounded in his own back yard.
Also this maybe the reason his funding is drying up while it's pouring in for Clark.

As a side note: If you think Kerry is freaking, just wait until Gep or Lieberman drop out, then you going to see Dean start freaking as well.

[demgrrrl2004]

33. Clark is the only Real Leader

I think you are totally wrong about General Clark and his qualifications for president. Clark is the MOST qualified candidate, not because of the "metal embellishments" on his shirt, but because of his demostrated leadership in our nation and our world. Do you realize that General Clark is the only candidate to have successfully negotiated a peace treaty? Do you realize that as a four star general Clark supervised tens of thousands of personell? Did you know that Clark has met with more heads of state and conducted more diplomacy than any other Democratic candidate? Did you know that as a commander of one the largest bases in the world, Clark provided health insurance, education, and other bennefits for every member of that base?

At a time when Americans are looking for a leader with real qualifications and a leader that can make them feel secure, General Clark is the only candidate with the qualificiations to lead this country. He has a life time of experience in government, military, and foreign affairs. He is an expert on not only national security, but providing health care, education, and retirement for hundreds of thousands of employees. He has also successfully implemted affirmative action programs giving minorities and women opportunities in the armed services.

There is no candidate more qualified than Clark and no candidate that can defeat Bush other than Clark. America wants a leader, not a whiner. America wants someone with a proven track record in foreign policy, not someone who bashes the current policy and offers no alternative.

That's why so many Americans, Kerry supporter, and even Dean supporters (www.ex-deniacsforclark.com) are switching to General Clark-they know he's a leader that can direct this country and provide real leadership.

[Jerseycoa]

47. Kerry has loyal supporters

This is no more than a stab at getting Kerry and Clark supporters to fight with each other instead of fighting against Dean. It's been the strategy for the past few days. Scan the threads for yesterday, pick out the ones that say Kerry and you get the picture. Don't anybody fall for it.

[Scott Lee]

52. HAD loyal supporters.

In my neck of the woods, they Kerryites are starting to jump ship in favor of either Clark or Edwards. That little "chicken wings" stunt that Clark pulled was not such a friendly jab.

I give Kerry's campaign another month or two, and then his supporters all go to Clark.

[mzmolly]

53. You haven't seen the polls then?

:shrug:

[quaker bill]

48. Each candidate is competing against all the others

This cannot be denied. Some people will vote for Dean, the rest will vote for someone else. So far, based on the polling I have seen, most are voting for someone else.

Dean is running as a liberal leaning centrist without a war record.

Clark is running as a liberal with 4 star service record. Kerry is running as a liberal with an heroic war record as well. It is clear that they are competing for the same market share.

Some will state that Clark's claim to liberalism is new found and rather tenuous. I, for one, don't buy it. There is a theme of care for your fellow soldier that runs at the core of the military experience. This theme is consistent with the liberalism Clark expresses.

Some state that Kerry's vote for IWR destroys his claim to liberalism. While I plainly do not agree with his vote on this issue, I have checked on Kerry's votes and proposals over the years in the federal records and have no doubt that he is a true liberal of long standing.

Clark and Kerry both deserve the support of the loyal democrats that are working for them. In my opinion, Dean deserves the support he has earnred as well. There is just so much support and cash to go around. In a field this large, each candidate competes against all the rest.

[TLM]

54. You know I've been saying this would happen since Clark entered...

That Clark and Kerry are both leaning on the same military crutch. They are fighting for the same group of voters by pushing their military background. So it comes as no surprise they are going to start attackign each other as they realize they're fighting over the same voters.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

59. Clark v. Kerry

It's clear they are fighting for many of the same voters and that Clark stole a lot of Kerry's thunder.

The candidates will probably duke it out a bit as it gets closer to the primaries where they are competing (at least NH), but I think the supporters here at DU are bonded by a common hatred of Dean. In real life though it may get competitive.

And I have no problem with that. :)

[FXDS]

58. It isn't over yet!

I'll tell ya when it's over! It's over when the supreme court say's Bush beat Dean! (Sarcasim) for those incapable of following along.

This is a good example of all the horse shitt being posted!

ABB

But I prefer Kerry 2004!