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Summary Analysis of Electronic Vote Switching Reported During the 2004 Presidential Election

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 06:05 PM
Original message
Summary Analysis of Electronic Vote Switching Reported During the 2004 Presidential Election
Given the numerous reports of electronic vote switching reported in early voting for the 2008 Presidential election, it would behoove the Democratic Party and the Obama campaign to take a thorough look (if they haven’t already done so) at analyses of electronic vote switching reported during the 2004 Presidential election.

Why the Democratic Party and the Obama campaign? Because analyses of reported vote switching from 2004 showed a very large preponderance of votes switching from John Kerry to George W. Bush, compared to votes switching in the opposite direction. That probably did not account for the margin of victory in 2004 (in which illegal purging of registered voters in Ohio was probably a much bigger factor). But electronic voting makes up a much larger percentage of the total vote in 2008 than it did in 2004, and therefore the potential for election theft by that means is probably much greater.

It is the pattern of electronic vote switching demonstrated in the analyses of the 2004 election which should cause Democrats to take this very seriously. The strong preponderance of vote switching from Kerry to Bush, as well as the much greater frequency of that phenomenon in the swing states, strongly suggests that this was no accident, but rather that it was planned well ahead of time.

I posted this information on DU in bits and pieces following the 2004 election, and I posted a summary of my analyses at the Election Defense Alliance (whose site contains a lot of information on how to protect our vote), for which I do volunteer work.


Methods

The source of all data for this analysis is reports to the Election Incidence Reporting System (EIRS), developed by the National Election Data Archive Project. All reports to this System involve the U.S. national election of November, 2004. The EIRS database includes 28,734 reported incidents, including 2,115 “machine problem” incidents. The material for this analysis was obtained by searching these “machine problem” incidents only in counties that used electronic voting machines, according to a database provided by Voters Unite!

A report was categorized as a presidential vote switching incident if and only if it met both of the following criteria: 1) The report specifically referred to the presidential vote (unless referring only to third party candidates) OR to one or both of the two major parties (unless referring specifically and only to non-presidential candidates), thus implying reference to the presidential vote; and 2) The report noted that the voting machine made it easier or more difficult to vote for one of the two major candidates OR difficult to vote for president in general. Typically these reports involved a voter attempting to register a vote for one candidate, and then the machine noting that another candidate had been selected. These “vote switches” involved switches from one to the other major party candidate, from a major party to a 3rd party candidate, or vice versa. Other problems involved such incidents as attempting to vote for a candidate and the vote not registering at all.

There were two exemptions from the above noted criteria: 1) Reports where the only problem noted was that one of the candidates was “pre-selected”. These were not included in this analysis because these cases likely involved a situation where the previous voter failed to register his/her vote, and the situation could be easily remedied by clearing the screen; and 2) Reports where I found it impossible to decipher what the complaint was referring to.

Having determined that a report met the criteria for “vote switching”, the next step was to categorize the report into one of three categories, according to which candidate the incident apparently potentially benefited: Kerry, Bush, or neither. The incident was categorized as potentially benefiting Bush if it indicated either that: 1) The voter attempted to vote for Kerry (or Democratic Party), but the machine registered Bush (or Republican Party) or another candidate; 2) The voter attempted to vote for a third party candidate, but the machine registered Bush; or 3) The voter’s attempts to vote for Kerry (or Democratic Party) were made difficult by any other machine related activity. By interposing the words “Bush” and “Kerry” in the above noted criteria, we obtain the criteria for categorizing an incident as apparently potentially benefiting Kerry. And if the report failed to meet either of the above two criteria, then it was categorized as potentially benefiting neither candidate.


Results

Overall categorization of reports
Appendix A is a verbatim listing of all of the reports included or considered for inclusion in this analysis. Those highlighted in blue are those that were determined to apparently potentially favor Bush. Those highlighted in red are those that were determined to apparently potentially favor Kerry. Those highlighted in green are those that were determined to potentially favor neither Bush nor Kerry. And those highlighted in yellow were those that were excluded from this analysis on the basis of the exclusion criteria noted above. The following denotes how many reports were categorized in each category:

Apparently potentially favored Bush: 87
Apparently potentially favored Kerry: 7
Potentially favored neither: 52
Excluded from analysis: 8

The 87 reported incidents that favored Bush, compared to the 7 that favored Kerry represent greater than a 12 to 1 ratio in favor of Bush for the U. S. as a whole.

Comparison of swing states versus non-swing states
The comparison of swing states assessed only the 87 cases of vote switches that favored Bush, since the number that favored Kerry was too small to analyze. The number of vote switches in both swing states and non-swing states was divided by the number of official votes from those states that were reported from counties that used electronic voting machines (rounded off to the nearest 1,000 for each county.) Swing states were considered to be CO, FL, IA, MN, MI, NH, NM, NV, OH, PA, and WI.

Overall, of the 87 vote switches that favored Bush, 67 were reported from swing states, and 20 were reported from non-swing states. Counties from swing states that used electronic voting machines accounted for 10.1 million votes, and counties from non-swing states that used electronic voting accounted for 27.7 million votes. The rate of reports per million voters in swing states was therefore 6.6 per million, and the rate in non-swing states was 0.72 per million voters. Therefore, the rate of reports of electronic vote switching that favored Bush was more than 9 times greater in swing states than in non-swing states.

Some specifics on breakdown by state and county
The distribution of incidents by state and county was very uneven. Of the 67 vote switches reported from swing states, all were reported from four states:

FL: 47 incidents, rate = 11.5 per million
OH: 8 incidents, rate = 9.1 per million
NM: 8 incidents, rate = 11.7 per million
PA: 4 incidents, rate = 2.6 per million

Three swing states, WI, NH, and MN, had no reports because they did not use electronic voting machines. And the other four, IA, NV, MI, and CO, simply had no reports even though some counties in those states did use electronic voting machines.

Of the 24 non-swing states that used electronic voting machines in some counties, only Washington exhibited a rate of reports that equaled any of the swing states noted above. Washington County had 3 reports, all from Snohomish County, for a rate of 8.2 per million for the state.

Distribution of incidents also varied greatly by county. Five swing state counties accounted for 58 of the 67 swing state reports (87%) and much higher rates than any of the other counties:

Broward, FL ...... 23 incidents, rate = 32.5 per million
Miami-Dade, FL .. 8 incidents, rate = 10.3 per million
Palm Beach, FL .. 11 incidents, rate = 20.1 per million
Bernalillo, NM .... 8 incidents, rate = 31.4 per million
Mahoning, OH .... 8 incidents, rate = 60.2 per million

Categorization of reports by voting machine type and vendor
Four voting machine vendors accounted for all but three of the 87 reported incidents that were favorable to Bush. These included Diebold (7 incidents, 8%), Danaher (14 incidents, 16%), Sequoia (19 incidents, 22%), and ESS (44 incidents, 51%). Although these percents were very different than the distribution of voting machine vendors throughout the United States, all four of these vendors were characterized by a significant excess of incidents favorable to Bush, compared with incidents favorable to Kerry.

The rate of reported incidents was much greater with touch screen machines than with other electronic voting machines. There were 74 reports out of 20,136 voters for touch screen machines, a rate of 3.7 per million. Other electronic voting machines were associated with 13 reports out of 17,681 voters, for a rate of 0.74 per million voters.

Candidates involved in the electronic Presidential vote switching
Of the 87 reports that favored Bush, here is a more specific description of how they favored him:

50 reports were switches from Kerry to Bush.

15 reports were switches from Kerry to another or unspecified candidate.

6 reports were of voters who attempted to vote for Kerry, and no vote was recorded.

9 reports were switches from Democrat to Republican, with no indication of the specific candidates involved.

4 reports noted switches to Bush, with no indication of whom they tried to vote for.

2 reports were of handicapped voters who tried to use an audio aid to vote, but Bush was the only choice that they were given.

1 report indicated that the machine wouldn’t allow the voter to vote Democrat.

Other candidates
Of the 87 reports that favored Bush, only 7 of these indicated difficulties in voting in races other than the Presidential one. However, as noted above, there were 52 reports of electronic vote switching which could not be said definitely to favor Kerry or Bush, and many of these involved other races. For example, there were several reports in Florida of vote switching from Castor to Martinez (none the other way around), but those reports are not the subject of this thread.

Number of attempts per voter
Most of the reports did not mention the number of attempts that were made before the voter was able to vote for the candidate of his/her choice. Of those that did:

A single unsuccessful attempt was made by 7 voters.
Two unsuccessful attempts were made by 5 voters.
Three unsuccessful attempts were made by 4 voters
Four unsuccessful attempts were made by 1 voter

There were 18 voters who made 7 or more unsuccessful attempts or who characterized the number of attempts that they made with words such as “many” or “several”. Two of these noted that “persistence pays off”.

In addition, 3 voters ended up voting for Bush because they lost patience trying to change their vote.

Number of voters mentioned in the report
Most reports were confined to a single voter. However, there were 9 reports that mentioned one or two additional voters having a similar problem, and 24 reports noted in various ways that there were numerous additional occurrences of similar incidents in the same polling place, using phrases such as “multiple occurrences”, “several reports”, “common occurrence” or “happening all day”.

Type of vote switch
Most of the reports did not specify precisely how the vote switch took place, although one gets the impression from reading many of these reports that the vote switch often took place immediately after the voter registered his/her vote, and that it was immediately apparent.

On the other hand, 15 reports specifically noted that they were not aware of the switch until the end, when they checked the “review” or “summary” screen, or when they tried to “confirm” their vote. One of these voters noted that the switch on the summary screen took place right before her eyes as she was registering her vote, which meant that she accidentally voted for Bush. Several voters noted that the vote switch was difficult to identify, and only their watchfulness prior to registering their vote prevented them from voting for Bush.


Discussion

How to explain the great preponderance of incidents that favored Bush
The most striking finding of this analysis was that there were far more reports of electronic voting machine switches favorable to Bush, compared to incidents favorable to Kerry, with a ratio of greater than 12 to 1. This poses the question: What is the meaning of this finding?

As with any study which demonstrates an uneven distribution of a variable, there are three possible alternatives: chance, bias, or causal connection. Let’s examine each of these possibilities:

Chance
The likelihood of such an uneven distribution of Bush vs. Kerry favorable incidents is similar to the likelihood of flipping a coin 94 times and coming up with 87 or more heads or tails. The odds against that exceed ten million to one.

Bias
Bias would explain the uneven distribution if in reality the Bush and Kerry favorable incidents occurred with approximately the same frequency, but the Bush favorable incidents were more likely to be reported. This possibility is similar to the hypothesis posed by Warren Mitofsky to explain the discrepancy between his November 2004 Presidential exit poll (which had Kerry winning by 3 %) and the official election results (which had Bush winning by 2.5%). Mitofsky’s hypothesis is that Bush voters were less likely to participate in the exit poll than Kerry voters. Similarly, the findings of this analysis could be explained if Bush voters were much less likely than Kerry voters to report incidents where an electronic voting machine appeared to make it difficult to vote for their candidate or appeared to switch their vote to the other major party candidate.

Although I don’t find it difficult to believe that such a bias could exist, I do find it very difficult to believe that the magnitude of such a bias could be so great as to result in a 12 to one ratio. I can’t say it’s not possible. But it seems to me to be a very unlikely explanation.

Causal connection
The remaining possibility is that there were many voting machines throughout the country for which it was more difficult to vote for Kerry than for Bush, or which switched or attempted to switch votes from Kerry to Bush, and that these machines were concentrated in certain areas of the country. This could have been accidental. But if it was accidental, then why would the vast majority of these incidents tend to favor one candidate over the other? And furthermore, why would the incidents be concentrated so heavily in swing states. I cannot think of an explanation for how this could have happened accidentally.

If the tendency of these voting machines to favor Bush was not accidental, that means that someone programmed them to act this way. Depending on the magnitude of this phenomenon, that could have compromised the integrity of the election. This is especially true given the fact that Florida and Ohio were the two states where this problem was reported with the greatest frequency, and the fact that if either if these states had gone for Kerry, he would have won the election.

What is the magnitude and significance of the problem? – Is this the tip of an iceberg?
If voting machines used in the 2004 Presidential election were in fact programmed to make it more difficult to vote for Kerry than for Bush, or to switch votes from Kerry to Bush, what significance could that have had to the integrity or outcome of the election? 87 individual incidents in an election where Kerry lost Ohio by over a hundred thousand votes and Florida by a few hundred thousand votes doesn’t seem like very much. But what if these 87 incidents represent only the tip of an iceberg – the known part of a much larger problem? Let’s consider some possibilities that would suggest that a much larger problem exists than these 87 reports:

Perhaps only a minute fraction of problems discovered by voters were reported to EIRS
No one knows what fraction of problems discovered by voters at the polls in November 2004 were reported to the EIRS. It could be that the great majority of voters weren’t even aware that the system existed. Or if they were aware of it, they may not have felt the necessity of taking the time to report it.

Most voters may not have noticed the problem
A typical report noted that a voter would attempt to register a choice for President (or other candidate), and then prior to finalizing their choice would note that the screen registered a vote for the other candidate. How many voters would have noticed this, and how many voters would have failed to notice it, and therefore cast their vote for the other candidate?

What if vote switching was usually not accompanied by any visual evidence?
If the machines were programmed to switch votes, the person(s) behind this crime would not have wanted the machines to register any visual evidence to that effect, thus enabling the voter to have a chance to correct the problem, or bring it to the attention of election officials, and potentially a much wider audience. But what if it was not possible to program the machines in such a way that they wouldn’t occasionally provide this evidence, or what if doing so would have required a level of skill that many of the programmers didn’t have? In that case, the great majority of vote switching would have gone unnoticed and uncorrected – and therefore unreported. This is speculation on my part, since I do not have the computer expertise to know how feasible such a scenario would be.

Investigations have been conducted that strongly support the idea that the EIRS reports represent only the tip of an iceberg:

First there is a report by Paul Lehto and Jeffrey Hoffman which identifies 19 reports of electronic vote switching in Snohomish County, Washington – all which favor Bush – from the Washington State auditor’s office, the Washington Secretary of State’s office, and a Snohomish County voter complaint hotline. This compares with only three reports made to EIRS.

Even more compelling is an investigation undertaken by the Washington Post regarding electronic vote switching in Mahoning County, Ohio. This investigation identified 25 electronic voting machines in Youngstown, Mahoning County, which transferred an unknown number of votes from Kerry to Bush. The Post report goes on to state “Due to lack of cooperation from Secretary of State Blackwell, we have not been able to ascertain the number of votes that were impacted or whether the machines malfunctioned due to intentional manipulation or error.”


Conclusion

Neither the 12 to 1 ratio of incidents favoring Bush to incidents favoring Kerry, nor the 9 to 1 greater frequency of the Bush favoring incidents in swing states (compared to non-swing states) could have occurred by chance. Reporting bias is a possibility, but it does not seem plausible that reporting bias could account for such high ratios. If neither chance nor reporting bias account for these anomalies, then the implication is that someone programmed the computers to act this way.

This study adds one more piece to the accumulated evidence of compromised integrity of the 2004 Presidential election. Much of the controversy over this election has centered on the fact that the Mitofsky-Edison exit polls not only showed Kerry winning the national vote by 3%, but also showed Kerry winning Ohio by 4.2% (which official results showed him losing by 2.5%) and virtually tied in Florida (where official results showed him losing by 5.0%).
Supporting the supposition of election fraud as an explanation for the exit poll discrepancy, Clint Curtis’ testimony before the House Judiciary Committee’s Democratic staff suggests an intention on the part of Republican functionaries to utilize electronic vote switching software in the 2004 election. The strange “suicide” death of the Florida investigator who was in the midst of investigating Curtis’ allegations (after telling Curtis that his investigation revealed corruption “all the way to the top”) provides additional reason to believe that the implications of Curtis’ revelations were very important indeed. The revelations on the Brad Blog of a Diebold insider (Dieb Throat) suggest that it was quite important both to Diebold and to the Bush Administration that the capability for rigging the 2004 election remain intact.

Nobody knows how many votes the electronic vote switching described in this article cost John Kerry. Undoubtedly, the great majority of voters whose votes were electronically switched from John Kerry to George Bush did not report these incidents to EIRS. When the revelations of Clint Curtis and Dieb Throat are added to actual evidence of electronic vote switching such as described in this report – which overwhelmingly favored George Bush, especially in the critical swing states of Ohio and Florida – it seems evident that these are issues that should be thoroughly investigated and widely publicized to the American people.


What can be done about this now?

I can’t precisely answer the question of what needs to be done at this point. Certainly the Democratic Party and the Obama campaign need to be well aware of the problem and vigilant about identifying incidents as they occur.

It seems to me that, as a minimum solution, voters should be warned about this potential problem, and machines that demonstrate the problem should immediately be taken out of service. If that causes excessively long voter lines to develop, then emergency paper ballots should be made available to voters in order to preclude voters having to leave before they vote, which occurred at least by the tens of thousands in 2004.

Voting machines should then be analyzed by the relevant experts in order to determine why they malfunctioned. Attempts to do this since 2004 have been met with objections by the voting machine companies to the effect that their machines are “proprietary” and therefore legally immune to government confiscation and analysis. I don’t understand how that argument can be given any serious consideration in a democracy, where failure to ensure the integrity of our voting machines is tantamount to failure to ensure the integrity of our elections. That’s a matter that needs to be hashed out by the lawyers, since Congress has not seen fit to exercise any substantial oversight over this issue to date.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dallas County TX - 2004 - DS&S Machine Flipped My Vote
eom
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Did your report it to EIRS?
Or somewhere else?
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Reported It To The Dallas County Democratic Party - They Did Nothing!
eom
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. That illustrates one of the main points of this analysis:
That the actual number of instances of vote switching far exceeds the reported number.

They better take this issue a lot more seriously this time around.



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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks! I Was Wondering About This!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. You're welcome
I sure do hope the Obama campaign is ready for this.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I Asked the P-Man
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think phrig is probably right about that -- However,
Edited on Mon Oct-27-08 08:18 AM by Time for change
Note the qualification about "unless the Republicans get very stupid and grabby..." I think we've learned over the past few years that that possibility is not exactly off the table. And if Obama loses all of his "weak" states, he ends up with 260 EV. And furthermore, he could lose some ground between now and Election Day.

So, I wouldn't take anything for granted. If the touch screen machines start stealing votes on Election Day (highly probable) and if the Democratic Party and the Obama campaign allow this to happen without making a very big deal about it and demanding that those machines be taken out of operation immediately, and with a backup plan to allow paper ballot voting to prevent excessively long lines from forming, that is going to provide a major obstacle to Obama's chances. I certainly do not want to him to have to rely on a landslide to win this election.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is the known data
and it may hint at a much larger problem in real life than was actually discovered, which is the beauty of statistical data and probability.

We really won't know the extent of the problem until we have open source code for all electronic vote machines, and eliminate the profit motive in those companies which manufacture them (i.e., nationalize all of the voting machine manufacturers, just like the federal government did to bail out the finance companies and banks recently).
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Absolutely
As I said in the OP, the incidents that are reported make up only a very small fraction of the total incidents, since there are many reasons why most cases don't get reported. We have very little idea how many votes this problem actually cost Kerry in 2004 -- or might cost Obama in 2008 if aggressive steps aren't taken to combat it.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks, TfC, for this analysis. We're already getting bogus reports of vote flips for Obama in TN
Here's the thread debunking the reports of three Repub voters in one TN county. This thread is particularly recommended for any "coincidence theorists" in our audience.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x509810
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Isn't it hard to believe that after all this time
they're still allowed to use machines that do this kind of stuff in OUR elections.

As for the reports of flipping to Obama, it's noteworthy that the few reports we hear of turn out to be bogus.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Good try, Time for Change. You can talk and write until you're blue in the face, but the
Democratic leadership and Obama campaign are counting on a landslide victory to overcome these machinery/theft problems.

It's too late now. It's either going to work itself out or it's not. What can be done in one week in a national election? My guess is nothing of significance.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. I sure do hope you're wrong about that
I think that it would be a big mistake not to take this problem very seriously. It's unbelievable to me that after all the problems we had in 2004 that we still use these rotten machines -- and pay for them out of taxpayer dollars!
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I hope I'm wrong about it too. Just this morning on the Diane Rehm Show I heard
her interviewing elections official Jennifer Brunner of Ohio as well as several talking heads from various organizations. Granted, I was in and out of the loop because I had to run in and conduct some business at one point, but the gist of it was talking about the number of voters, the HAVA problems, the voter ID stuff and the long lines at polling places. At no point in the conversation did I hear any discussion of the machines being manipulated.

In one comment, a Democratic pollworker emailed to say he and his Republican counterpart were zeroing the machines every morning, making sure that they heard the machines record every vote, checking the vote tallies against the number of voters they recorded, helping voters who needed help, blah blah blah, as if those things relate in the slightest to the problem. No mention whatsoever of the fact that it's not possible to tell IF THE VOTES WERE TABULATED CORRECTLY.

This whole thing is so discouraging that I cannot tell you how angry I am with the Democratic leadership. They have failed us on an epic scale. I hope we will all get out and vote and ensure that Barack is elected.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I don't know if you saw the e-mail a DUer received from the Obama campaign
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7616078

In some ways it's encouraging:

Thank you for contacting us, and for sharing your concerns about voter protection. We’ve
seen what’s happened in past elections and we have a clear message:

Not This Time.

We’re running the largest election protection operation in American history. We’re not
waiting until Election Day...

But it says little about electronic vote switching, except for some vague remarks, such as this:

We’re ensuring that....... and that the voting machines will be working on Election Day.

We’re taking full advantage of early voting in key states...... to make sure that our
supporters have time to vote, and time to resolve any problems that may arise for
individual voters.

But clearly, some of the voting machines are not working for the early voting crowd. And I'm not sure what's been done to correct the problem.


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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I'm glad somebody got a response from them. I've emailed them twice and heard nothing.
I realize they probably get thousands of emails every day, so it doesn't bother me that I haven't heard from them.

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Essene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. TY... and extra credit for correct speeling of behoove
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. The credit for the spelling goes to spellcheck
:D
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. Consider the source of the current paradigm
HAVA. Which was 'written' by Bob Ney (R-Prison), with 'assistance' provided by the Election Industry.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. That's a very ugly thought
The one good sign I see, however, is the 2006 election. It would seem that that election showed that their capacity to cheat is not infinite or even close. But maybe they fear an Obama Presidency combined with control of Congress much worse than they fear the loss of Congress by itself.

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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. That's my take
Edited on Mon Oct-27-08 01:32 PM by riqster
However, part of that strategy depended on us doing what we have done in the past. This time, Dems are being smart, tough, and aggressive, going after the first part in the Fraudsters' playbook-voter disenfranchisement. We are also pushing turnout, and insisting on accuracy in the media's treatment of this issue.

These actions have not been completely effective, of course, but more of the American people have heard of this issue, and are to some degree aware of its potential to harm the nation. If they try to steal this one, it'll be a lot harder to slip through the cracks.

The real wildcard is the American public. Will they lie down and surrender in the face of the theft of their nation again, as they have done twice before? Or will they stand with their Constitution this time around?

(Edited to fix crap typing)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. The American public
"Will they lie down and surrender in the face of the theft of their nation again, as they have done twice before?"

Problem is, most of them don't have a clue as to what's going on. We have a supine news media and a relatively apathetic American public. The combination can be deadly.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R.
Nice work summarizing so much diverse data.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Thank you bleever
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judesedit Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. I SAY STEAL IT BACK!
Simple as that!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Welcome to DU judesedit
:toast:

Got any ideas on how to steal it back?

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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. thank you for this post. Recommeded and book-marked. This of course doesn't exist according to M$M

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Thank you
Failure to discuss this adequately has been one of the biggest of the many failings of our M$M.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. In Florida we vote OPTISCAN now so this is irrelevant here.
The problems are most likely:

1) Faulty touchscreen to display calibration.

2) Default choices coded into user interface design that were poorly thought out.

3) Failure of voters to carefully double check the choices.


The biggest problem with T/S is it offers no independent means of hand checking the vote. Once it is voted, you have to take on faith the software and hardware design.

The simple solution is what we'eve adopted here in FL: optiscan paper ballot.

Doug D.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Problem # 2
Poorly thought out or intentially designed to steal votes from Democrats?
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I'm going to say poorly thought out.
We go around assigning motives to these companies and anthropomorphizing them into sentient villains without a lot of substantial proof that they were out to steal our votes. More likely they were out to steal our money with a lot of shoddy software and equipment that was slapped together and sold with a lot of hype. Mistakes were swept under the rug rather than fixed to avoid losing business and profits.

These corporations run by greed more than political motivations which in some ways is even more base.

Doug D.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Then how do you explain that the vast majority of incidents favor the Republican?
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. That's not really what I would call "water tight"..but rather antecdotal..
and you are less likely to complain if you win than lose - post hoc ergo prompter hoc - are we complaining because we lost or did we lost because we were cheated? It's hard to say whether losing was a cause or effect here.

Doug D.
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psomniferum Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
35. Very informative
Excellent post as usual.
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