I welcome Zogby's fuzzy math

[GrizzlyMan]

I don't take Zogby seriously -- at all. His interactive polls are a joke, and we all know how he came out of the 2004 general. He is washed up. Yesterday's (as in the 1980s) news.

I don't mind seeing polls that show it tightening because for one, my instincts tell me it's not and two, I want our base on edge for election day. I want them terrified of a McCain victory. Terror = motivation= people getting out to vote.


So bring it on Zagnut....

[rcrush]

1. Lot of people freaking out

I dont know why. I think everyone needs to smoke more pot.

[grantcart]

2. I agree we are 2 points behind (lol) lets pour it on

[garybeck]

3. flaw in your argument

the appearance of a close election makes election fraud easier.

if obama is way ahead, people need to know about it. that way they can't steal it.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

5. It also encourages the other side to think it's close and motivates them.

[GrizzlyMan]

10. That would be true if you're dealing with an equal pool of voters

But our pool is much deeper this time around. Point being, the Repukes could match their 2004 all-time high in turnout and STILL LOSE as long as our side is motivated to get to the polls or vote early or absentee.

[garybeck]

12. no

the all time high of 2004 was the Democrats, not the republicans. it was stolen. this one will be stolen again too if we are not vigilant and part of that is making people aware of the problem.

i talk to some people who think the solution to election fraud is to elect a democratic president so then they will enact legislation to deal with the problem. it's a very backwards argument because you can't get someone elected when elections are stolen. you must deal with the problem NOW, as it is happening, not sheepishly keep our mouths shut because we're fearful that it will stop people from voting.

[GrizzlyMan]

6. Well by all means

If you believe telling people their vote doesn't count, that it doesn't matter, then have at it because that is precisely what the fraudbots are saying.

"Don't bother, it's a waste of time".

Conversely, I see no logic in discouraging people to vote.

[garybeck]

7. Wha?

who is discouraging people from voting?

i hear people saying that sometimes and it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't see the connection. why does talking about election fraud discourage people from voting?

the fact is it's HARDER to steal an election when MORE people vote, and especially when the margin of victory is LARGER.

EVERYONE in the election reform community who is working to fix the problems with the electronic voting machines and expose the issue, also works to encourage people to vote.

I disagree a million percent that we shouldn't talk about election fraud because it discourages people from voting.

We need accurate polls so people know it, if it is stolen. Giving a false impression that it's close, when it's not, does not not discourage voting any more than talking about election fraud.

[GrizzlyMan]

9. How can you not see the connection?

Fraud guy: "People are hacking the machines, votes switching from Obama to McCain, read this!"

Average semi-engaged voter: "Huh?"

Fraud guy: "Yeah, it's true. The machines are flipping from Dem to Repuke. They're stealing it again!".

Average semi-engaged voter: "I guess I'll stay home if it doesn't matter."


Creating the image in people's heads that their vote is compromised does 2 things:

1-It may make them mad, and motivate them to do something about it.

2-They will stay home because these claims appeal to their cynical nature.

Unfortunately it's at best a wash for our side. The Repukes will still vote because they view America as without flaw.

[garybeck]

11. I disagree

the "fraud guy" if he has a brain cell, which most of us do, would explain that it's harder to steal an election when more people vote and when the margin of victory is better.

that's why every single voting integrity website and organization has a list of things people can do to prevent election fraud, including not only VOTING, but also things people can do to safeguard their vote.


the other scenario, just buying the polls that may incorrectly say it's closer than it is, not paying attention to election fraud, and just getting out the vote is an invitation to fraud.

we must be vigilant. we must make people aware of the election fraud threat, or we will never overcome it.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Must have been that 300+ point drop on Friday that made people

want to vote for McCain!

[TheKentuckian]

8. I like these goofy polls

because no matter how they screw around with the samples and weighting, its still going south for McGollumCo.