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General Clark's Disturbing Record

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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:06 PM
Original message
General Clark's Disturbing Record
04.10.03 -- "President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt." -- Clark (not Lieberman, who would have been excoriated for such views)

09.27.03 -- "Retired Gen. Wesley K. Clark helped an Arkansas information company win a contract to assist development of an airline passenger screening system, one of the largest surveillance programs ever devised by the government. Starting just after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, Clark sought out dozens of government and industry officials on behalf of Acxiom Corp., a data powerhouse that maintains names, addresses and a wide array of personal details about nearly every adult in the United States and their households, according to interviews and documents. Clark, a Democrat who declared himself a presidential candidate 10 days ago, joined Acxiom’s board of directors in December 2001. He earned $300,000 from Acxiom last year and was set to receive $150,000, plus potential commissions, this year, according to financial disclosure records. He owns several thousand shares of Acxiom stock worth more than $67,000. Clark’s consulting role at Acxiom puts him near the center of a national debate over expanded government authority to use personal data and surveillance technology to fight the war on terrorism and protect homeland security" -- Washington Post (not Z Magazine)

05.11.01 -- "I'm very glad we've got the great team in office, men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice... people I know very well - our president George W. Bush. We need them there." -- Wesley Clark (not Tom DeLay)

01.07.02 -- "President George Bush had the courage and the vision... and we will always be grateful to President George Bush for that tremendous leadership and statesmanship." -- Wesley Clark (not Ed Meese)

02.12.02 -- "Do you ever ask why it is that these people in these other countries can't solve their own problems without the United States sending its troops over there? And do you ever ask why it is the Europeans, the people that make the Mercedes and the BMW's that got so much money can't put some of that money in their own defense programs and they need us to do their defense for them?" -- Wesley Clark (not Rush Limbaugh)

09.18.03 -- "Former NATO Commander Wesley Clark, who today announced his candidacy for President, joined the field of contenders competing for the Democratic nomination. But as recently as two years ago, he was addressing Republican dinners in his home state of Arkansas amid speculation about a possible future Clark run for office -- as a Republican.

Speaking on May 11, 2001, as the keynote speaker to the Pulaski County Republican Party's Lincoln Day Dinner, Clark said that American involvement abroad helps prevent war and spreads the ideals of the United States, according to an AP dispatch the following day.

Two weeks later, a report in U.S. News and World Report said Arkansas Republican politicos were "pondering the future of Wesley Clark:" "Insiders say Clark, who is a consultant for Stephens Group in Little Rock, is preparing a political run as a Republican. Less clear: what office he'd campaign for. At a recent Republican fund-raiser, he heralded Ronald Reagan's Cold War actions and George Bush's foreign policy. He also talked glowingly of current President Bush's national security team. Absent from the praise list -- his former boss, ex-Commander in Chief Bill Clinton." -- Politics USA (not the Guardian UK)

09.19.03 -- "Gen. Wesley K. Clark said today that he would have supported the Congressional resolution that authorized the United States to invade Iraq, even as he presented himself as one of the sharpest critics of the war effort in the Democratic presidential race." -- New York Times (not The Nation)

09.20.03 -- "Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark backtracked from a day-old statement that he probably would have voted for the congressional resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq, saying Friday he "would never have voted for this war." The retired Army general, an opponent of the conflict, surprised supporters when he indicated in an interview with reporters Thursday that he likely would have supported the resolution." -- San Francisco Chronicle (not Pravda)

09.16.03 -- "The possibility that former NATO supreme commander Wesley Clark might enter the race for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination has been the subject of furious speculation in the media. But while recent coverage of Clark often claims that he opposed the war with Iraq, the various opinions he has expressed on the issue suggest the media's "anti-war" label is inaccurate." -- FAIR (not Democrats for Social Justice)

12.14.03 -- "This campaign is about family, faith and patriotism." -- Wesley Clark (not Pat Robertson or Gary Bauer)
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 12:09 PM by Jack_Dawson
Panicking much? LOL

Polls are a bitch, ain't they? Wake me when there's a NEW unfounded smear.

:boring:
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. You couldn't have had time to read all that before replying. n/t
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. You're right, cause I've read it 700 times before
So I had a head start. Methinks you guys are getting a leeeeeetle bit desperate.

:nopity:
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
92. Being a "drone" reflects poorly on Clark supporters
Next time try a rebuttal, not a juvenille antic- and people might have more respect for Clark's supporters.
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZX2
... and a yawn. How does Clark even keep breathing. Four Star Generals are for losers.
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
93. No, they're for Republicans
...and so are slavish compliments to Bush and his administration. Better wake up, it's dawning that Clark is just a Republican in rehab.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
83. Smear? These are quotes from Clark.
How can Clark's words constitute a "smear"?

Julie
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101 Proof Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Clark-bashers are on a roll today...
:eyes:
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Nope, not bashing one bit
Brian and I are doing our part to expose Clark for who he really is. Clark supporters are voting for someone who would be potentially the RIGHT of Warchimp.

Hawkeye-X
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. None of this is bashing
These are quotes from Clark himself and the mainstream media coverage of him. Unless Clark is "bashing" himself with his own words. . . :crazy:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I guess the truth can hurt when you find out you back a phony
but your post most certainly wasn't bashing
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101 Proof Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Clark is still MUCH better than Bush.
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 12:18 PM by 101 Proof
Besides, Denny K. is still my top choice. :) :thumbsup:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
47. I'm not at all sure about that statement
They both think Donald Rumsfield and Condaleeza Rice are GREAT. That's just plain sick, IMO.
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
94. If you can justify these Republican, warmongering quotes
...please do so.
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. For the sake of novelty
how about conjuring up some new attack lines against Clark. These retreads smell a bit desperate.

For the record, I think Gov Dean is a pretty good candidate and I try to treat him with respect -- even when my temperature arises over some of these posts.




Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I'm not attacking
I am reiterating the record. People shouldn't ignore Clark's record just because they think it's "old."
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Ivote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. DISTURBING?
I dont think so. If you dont believe me go to
www.clark04.com and check it out for yourself.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Looking at sources other than Clark's own web site. . .
. . . the record is disturbing to me as a progressive moderate Democrat who stands for a rational foreign policy, balanced budget and strong civil liberties (including the right to privacy that Mr. Clark liquidated for Axciom).
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
70. Clark is a Potempkin Democrat
and would get steamrolled by Rove. He's a terrible campaigner.

If Clark was so good, he should have run as an Independent, which he was registered as, then he wouldn't have to worry about running in a Party's primary. He could have just run against Bush.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:09 AM
Original message
Not attacks
These quote will remain unchanged. I don't see how a post that is comprised strictly of quotes from a candidate can be considered an attack.

Julie
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks for the informative material
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TrueAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Keep sleeping...................
you'll wish you had when we're faced with george Bush as a lame duck President. Yeah, keep sleeping.
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Lemme fluff your pillow....
Have a nice nap. We'll wake you after the primaries so you can congratulate Dr. Dean on his nomination.

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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. im going to have to agree with the hecklers against your post
pretty old stuff. Clark wouldn't be my first choice, but that's more because he advocates an intensified drug war in Latin America and the DEFOLIATION of the AMAZON RIVER BASIN. It's hard for me to see how he is completely against a war in Iraq formulated on unjust policies, but all about continued war in South America. But that's neither here nor there. I think he would make a fine President, so posting negative threads ain't cool. THe whole point is the defeat of Bush in 04.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. These issues must be resolved. We must set the record straight
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. That's right
People who respond to these with attacks on Dean or Kerry or Edwards are missing the point. Dean, Kerry and Edwards didn't run around supporting much of the Bush administration policies and selling them homeland security tech up to the moment they suddenly decided to become Democrats. :(
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Pretty damning record
The 9/19/03 statement puts him in the same boat as Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards, and Gephardt.

The 9/20/03 statment puts him at the same caliber of candidate as Kerry, Edwards, and Gephardt. At least Lieberman is still a hawk when it's not popular to be a hawk.

Anti-war my white butt.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. The Context Is Obviously Inconvenient for Brian_Expat
This thread is yet another giant snoozefest.

I'm done with this guy.

DTH
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. That one from 5/11/01 BEFORE 9/11 makes him ineligible IMO
That is perhaps the most damning part of his minute record there is!
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yeah, because
god forbid someone changes their mind about Bush*. Lets hope Bush's approval rating stays at 60 right? Go team!!!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I don't mind somebody changing their minds about Bush
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 12:35 PM by Walt Starr
It just makes them ineligible for the Democratic nomination if they supported Bush ever, IMO.

If the Democrats are idiotic enough to nominate such a person, I'm done with the party.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. Dean supported Biden-Lugar
That was a resolution that authorized war.

If one wants a 100% anti-war candidate, that would be Kucinich. Otherwise, there is NO purist on Iraq.

The question now is who has the diplomatic skills, international knowledge, and global vision to move the country in the right direction. For a variety of reasons, I choose Kerry. But I have every confidence in Clark as well. That's my concern, where are we going, not what this one or that one says about where they've been.
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Fahrenheit911 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Snore!!
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 12:24 PM by Fahrenheit911
Yawn:boring:
find a new song buddy

http://www.clarkmyths.com
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Polemonium Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
25. Do any of you remember cut down contests
Everytime I come back to this board, I wonder if we are not opening the door to ensure that Rove is the last one laughing.

Let's all try and sing Python's "always look on the bright side of life"

just for a day or two then we can go back to lopping off eachothers limbs
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. Not to mention Clark's bumbling that helped the terrorist KLA
which I posted in a thread once....that got summarily locked for being *ahem* "inflammatory".

Clark was a great general - but a lousy politician.


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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. this has been beaten to death already
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 12:28 PM by Lisa0825
Brian, I have seen you post a lot of positive Dean stuff, (I am also a Dean supporter), and I am sure you get as frustrated as me when people misrepresent him, especially when it is with the same stuff that has been said a thousand times. Well, that is exactly what you are doing to Clark here. This has been beaten to death and posted over and over. It's old, tired, boring, and worthless.

No Clark supporter is going to change stripes because you posted this, and the kind of political junkies that hang out here have most likely all seen this before.

All this does is piss people off, not *inform* them. Best to let it die.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Well thank you Lisa
I love it when I can find rational Dean supporters. I think Dr. Dean has run an amazing campaign myself.

:toast:
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. But I am concerned about the future of my party. . .
. . . and as a proud long-term Democrat, this record is a big giant red flag to me. I want to make sure that people who might not have seen this information get to take a look at it -- and decide for themselves what it all means.
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. I suspect that you're less
interested in having people decided for themselves and more interested in them agreeing with you, Brian. If you're sincerely interested in giving them a chance to consider these issues, you'd provide some links with context rather than some tasty, well singled out "text bites."

You're strongly partisan. These are strongly partisan, slanted issues. It's fair to do that but don't try and masquerade it as some sort of 'public service'.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. "Strongly partisan, slanted issues"
You're right. They are strongly partisan issues. And as a Democrat, I do not want a candidate who agrees with Bush on those issues.
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. Brian, I'm afraid you may find...
Brian, I'm afraid you may find that some people don't like
hearing the truth.

Atlant
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beawr Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
33. Then
If all we're left with is Dean, we should also become ex-pats, 'cause he will lose so big the Bushites will run rampant over all of us.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. If Clark is the nominee and wins. . .
. . . what's the difference? If he thinks Bush's team is intact and the Iraq War is a good idea, I might as well just vote for Nader.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Yes, definitely
That would be very smart. Vote Nader.

Oy.

:eyes:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. From the 5/11/01 statement
I doubt a Clark administration would be much different from a * administration. He LIKES Rummy and Condy. That's just plain sick to me.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Amen
Americans are seeking a real alternative to war without end and pitting Americans against each other. If the party gives them a Bush-endorsing conservative, where's the "alternative"? Americans will find it, regardless of what some Democrats wish to believe.
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Idle Theat....and Guess What...We don't care...
with that attitude, good...I want you out of the party..go back to Ralph where you came from and don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out....
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. "We don't care"
Pretty much sums up my interpretation of Clark's domestic agenda.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Yep!
You nailed it!
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Clark cares about Clark.
Nothing else. Clark wants to be president. The party isn't important, the platform isn't important. What is import is Clark sitting in the oval office.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
62. Bingo, we have a winner!
Clark cares about Clark. When the Republican nomination wasn't available because of his pal George Bush, all of the sudden Gen. Clark became a Democrat! Doesn't this fact raise a few flags with Clark supporters? The man, until quite recently, VOTED REPUBLICAN, SUPPORTED REPUBLICANS! Are people so in need of a General to order them around that these facts escape them? How can they justify this?
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #38
86. who are you to determine who stays in the party?
Tell me of your history with the party. Tell me of your dedication and efforts on the party's behalf.

I'd sure like to know why you feel you have the authority to determine whois worthy to be in the party and who isn't. I've had toomany conversations iwth Clark supporters who have never lifted a finger for the party, much less bothered to join it, to see this comment pass without question.

Julie
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beawr Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. I haven't
seen any proof he thought the Iraq war was a good idea. What he supported was the congressional resolution giving Bush the authority to go to war. If the war was based on lies, as it was, then the fault is with the liar. He, and many, many Dems, can be faulted for trusting Bush.

I don't think he will leave Bush's team intact

A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush, so go ahead although aren't you an expat? or are you a Brit expat?

I want Bush to be defeated and I am very confident Dr. Dean cannot do it.

Kerry might though.......

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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. The IWR rationalization is a cop-out
EVERYONE knew Bush wanted to go to war even before the IWR was proposed. In mid 2002, Bush was saying he had the right under the old Kuwait resolution to go in and was going to ignore Congress. Anybody with 1/2 an understanding of the situation knew Bush would go to war immediately after getting the resolution, and requesting the resolution was just going through the motions.
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beawr Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
61. It May Indeed Be
But that's politics and if you wanna be president, you have to play. If you have distaste for that sort of thing, then I should refer you to such honorable men (and I mean this, I have a lot of respect for these guys) as Carter, Goldwater, Udall, Tsongas, Stassen, Mondale, McGovern.
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mikewriter Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
95. Hmm...Nader
I thought about voting for Nader in 2000 but than thought a vote for Nader might as well be a vote for Bush. If all those people in Florida who voted for Nader voted for Gore Bush wouldn't be in the White House.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
41. What's his history prior to the Kosovo War?
I know he was career military, but all I ever hear about is Kosovo.

And please no knee-jerk reactions to a simple, honest question people. I really don't know too much about his history before the war.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. After the revelations about his Bush support. . .
. . . he has been keeping his past before then a very closely guarded secret (beyond the regular "kids and wife" spiel).
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. I think I remember something about him working as an Aide in the Ford...
administration.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. We need to learn more about Clark's history. . .
. . . the other candidates' histories are out in the open, for better or worse. All we know about Clark is what he wants us to know, plus his public stances and constant flip-flops over the past few years.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
63. Agreed.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. You have problems with the truth
did this miss your research?

http://clark04.com/records/
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. I'm not talking campaign web site fluff. . .
. . . I am talking real history.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #55
69. Is this good
These were created by others before he ran for president.

http://clark04.com/records/documents/
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. Clark's web site is not an indepednent source on Clark's history
It is immediately suspect.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. Are you or Brian?
Just wondering
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #67
77. I'm not the one providing the information
I'm the requester, not the provider.

same goes for Brian.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Here you go...
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 12:47 PM by Bleachers7
http://clark04.com/records/

Unlike other candidates records, Clarks are fully released.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Ooooh, a link to a campaign web site! That's useful and independent. n/t
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. If you are so useful and independent...
Why don't you post links and context? You are for fairness right?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. He's the one asking for a source on the claims
He need not post any links.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
57. These posts are starting to make me change my mind
about whether to support Gov Dean if he's the nominee. If his outspoken supporters are any indication, I don't think I want anything to do with his campaign. Too much trash talk, too much hate, too much arrogance for my "DINO" ass.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:51 PM
Original message
Yes, God forbid we share facts. . .
. . . those could injure people!

Those arrogant Dean supporters are posting news clips and quotes! They're even asking questions! :O
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
73. Sharing the facts aren't the issue...
The issue is sharing them over and over again.

It's like you Dean supporters just have to cover for Dean's weekly negative press by recycling old Clark news over and over.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Don't judge us all by a few
I could say the same thing about some Clark supporters, as well. But I refuse to let my opinion of a few change my opinion about Clark. He's my #2, and i hate it when I see people bashing him OR his supporters bashing Dean. It goes both ways.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. I would certainly hate to be judged by what some Clark posters
have said about Dean. You're right, its not fair to judge a candidate by a few juvenile supporters.

Its just disgusting to come here and see people trying to destroy our party. Whether its Dean, Clark, Kerry or Kucinich they smear its all the same. Democrats cannibalizing Democrats. No policy discussion, no comparison of tax plans or education plans, just raw, red-meat, baiting. And we've learned it all from the media. Some of the people here could give Russert a run for his money for deliberate misrepresentation. And that's why Bush will win in the end.
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #57
74. You know, I could have guessed someone would post this meme. (NT)
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 02:07 PM by Atlant
But the folks who like to bash Dean over and over again don't
apparently don't believe in this effect or worry about it, so
why should I?

Atlant
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. And I could have guessed
that someone would say "meme," the most utterly and absolutely pretentious word in the English language. Unfortunately, it has infested DU like cholera in a Victorian slum.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
58. As a Dean Supporter...
I have to say that I know from threads like this posted against Dean aren't pretty much worthless.

You have to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish. Do you really think this will cause a Clark supporter to suddenly change positions? About all it might do is take a fence sitter who was feeling excited about a candidate and getting involved in the process and make him or her return to not caring.

The motivation shouldn't be to tear down the opposition, but to build up your candidate. Clark's supposed/alleged party loyalty problems have been acknowledged several times. We can keep posting them but it will only galvanize the opposition much like I became galvanized regarding Dean. Heck, I'm so turned off by the anti-Dean rhetoric people could post unaltered pictures of him raping goats and I would ignore it.

This doesn't create discussion, it only creates antipathy.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Excellent point, LuminousX
But somehow I doubt it will make a difference.
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #58
85. Thank you. n/t
.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #58
107. Well said..nt.
Sid
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
59. If this is what Rove will hit Clark on, Dems win by ten.
Note the lack of potential Osama-including ads, Media whores telling the middle class they're losing their tax breaks, etc.

Thanks brian---this post is the best Clark commercial in recent DU history, proof that he takes away Chimp's only reason to be. Proof that you were unable to find a single policy issue that brands clark a Republican.

In other words, Clark wil benefit from Dem's built in superiority of social initiatives (since Clark's proposals are solidly TBD style Democratic) while being totally immune to the patriotism-grabbing bullshit that Rove will successfully pull against Dean.

Thanks again.
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
75. Osama? You mentioned Osama?
Did you know that at the same time as Clark was bombing Serbian civillians in order to save the KLA - who Clark says are not terrorists, even though both the US State Dept and the UN said they were terrorists at the time - that Osama Bin Laden was ALSO aiding the KLA, as the State Dept ALSO said at the time?

If ANY of the Dem nominees can be linked to Osama Bin Laden by the Republicans, it's Clark.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
68. And they say
Rove won't be able to touch him.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
72. let me get this straight
When others say critical things about Dean, it makes you very very upset, but it is okay for you to criticize other candidates??? :shrug:
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Sauce for the Goose? (NT)
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
79. More Dean supporter FEAR!
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Nope. Just the facts. (NT)
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
81. Maybe the KLA can come out and help their old Buddy Welsey Clark
After all, they owe alot of their prosperity to him. Ya think?


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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. Why Don't any Clark supporters use THAT pic in their siglines ?
Something theyd rather forget, eh ?
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
84. And all of this is supposed to mean... what, exactly?
That Clark is an evil, evil man? I guess the "attack him, and he grows stronger" dynamic works for others as well, huh?
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. How does posting a bunch of quotes
constitute an attack?

Julie
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Inquiring minds STILL wants to know..
:eyes:
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
90. kick
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
91. Kick
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
96. Keep this kicked--- I've had it with one-sided 'civility'.
:grr:
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. Geez Paddy!
What happened to you? You're.....you're....you're pissed off!

I can't say I blame you though. One sided civility is draining. At least this will all be over soon. :toast:

Julie
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
97. Kick
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
98. Kick
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
99. No more one-way street on the civility issue kick
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
100. No more one-way street on the civility issue kick #2
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Sorry, you're only allowed as many kicks as the general has stars ! ;-)
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Then I have one more left after this one.
:P
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
103. Kick
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
104. Thanks for the summary
It helps to refresh the memory on occasion.
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Lobo_13 Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
105. Clark supporters want a leader
turns out they aren't terribly interested in where they get led.
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