Action Alert: Votes for Obama not being counted in NC!

[Hope And Change]

Action Alert: Votes for Obama not being counted in NC!

by urthwalker

Sun Oct 19, 2008 at 12:13:13 PM PDT


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/19/151113/84/78/635565

[madmax]

1. Who designed the ballot?

Teresa LaPore?? Shit.

[mnhtnbb]

2. At Morehead Planetarium (in Chapel Hill), there was not only a sign

saying you had to vote separately for President, but the people handing out the ballots were also
giving the instruction.

[applexcore]

3. All poll workers are going over this when they hand out the ballot

They're doing a good job with it. Its on the ballot, they tell you over and over, and there are signs.

[tekisui]

21. Yes they are.

They are extensively making sure that every voter knows this.

[elkston]

4. Although I already knew this about the ballot, the poll worker made this clear to me ...

when I went to vote on Friday.

Then again, I voted in the "blue" Durham County. I hope all the poll workers make this clear across the state.

The good news is it doesn't count a vote for McCain either, should a Republican slip up.

[Jackpine Radical]

5. The bad news is theat the Republicans are doing it again.

The good news is that these stories are coming out early so everyone can see what's going on, and so a lot of it can be stopped and corrected.

[knowledgeispwr]

8. I don't see how you can blame Republicans for this.

Dems control the General Assembly in NC, and the Governor and Secretary of State is Dem. Also, this is nothing new; the Presidential Choice is always separate from "straight-ticket". Additionally, the President Section is the first section of the ballot, above the choice for straight ticket. You'd have to skip over it to vote "straight-ticket" and not vote for president.

More than anything, people just need to look more closely at their ballots.

[thoughtcrime1984]

6. Illinois does that also...Why? It seems likely to suppress Presidential votes. nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

11. We don't have the "straight ticket" option in Illinois.

[thoughtcrime1984]

29. OK, that's better then. There should be no way to foul that ballot up.

How many states have a ballot like NC's? That still seems messed up.

[wishlist]

7. Misleading title, votes for Obama count, but straight ticket alone isn't enough

For years there has been a separate vote at the top of ballot for President before you have the choice of a straight ticket and then the other candidates. Election workers explain this to voters when handing out the ballots every 4 years. I have worked several elections where we told all the voters about the separate vote for President. I am not working this year, but I voted already and all voters at my voting place were advised of the need to vote for Pres first before going on to either vote for straight party or separate candidates.

[knowledgeispwr]

10. I posted a similar reply

It's misleading and it's been like this for years. You have to skip over the Presidential Choice section to get to "straight-ticket."

[MagickMuffin]

9. It's the complete opposite here in Texas

If you vote straight ticket you should NOT mark the Presidential candidates or your Vote won't count. It will cancel out the vote.

[DrPresident]

13. That is so confusing

I dont understand that at all.

[MagickMuffin]

18. If you're in Texas here is the info

http://www.tarrantobama.org

Scroll down to Boyd Richie's statement. There is also info Rumor Watch, it describes Facts and Falsehoods when voting. Info on early voting locations with interactive map.

Voting should NOT be confusing.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

12. You vote for your choice of president before choosing a straight ticket.

Check this link: http://www.co.guilford.nc.us/elections_cms/docs/Misc%20Documents/CompositeBallot08.pdf

But getting this out will give people more of a head way to pay attention to this when they are voting.

[tledford]

28. Hi, Peridot -- I'm Guilford County, too.

And if you're not new to NC, then you know it has been this way for ages. And in my experience, poll workers have *always* done a good job of explaining it, even though they get a lot of "Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I've been voting in NC since 1976!" etc.

:-)

[amyrose2712]

14. ...

[emlev]

15. DO NOT VOTE "STRAIGHT PARTY TICKET!" Similar problems elsewhere...

Please see this new page of the VotersUnite.org site on just this issue:

Avoid Straight-Party Voting
Straight-party voting laws are confusing.
Misprogramming often counts straight-party votes incorrectly.

by Ellen Theisen, updated October 19, 2008

Straight-party voting (also called "straight-ticket" voting) means selecting a single bubble or box for a specific political party in order to register your vote for multiple candidates of that party. Only 15 states allow straight-party voting, and the laws vary widely from state to state.

We strongly recommend: avoid using the straight-party option. If you want to vote for all candidates of the same party, mark each candidate individually.

Read more

[Jamastiene]

16. That would only apply to new voters.

You cast your vote for president, then vote straight ticket for the rest (if you want to vote straight ticket). It says so right on the ballot in prominent bold letters.

Also, nonpartisan races, such as judges are individual votes as well. So, straight party will not cast the votes for them either. You have to fill in the bubble for them separately as well. It is pretty straight forward.

There are three sections to the ballot. One section is for president. One section is for the judges and other nonpartisan offices and then there is the section for the rest, if you plan on voting straight ticket.

So, to recap, vote for president, vote for judges and other nonpartisan offices, then if you plan on voting straight party, vote straight party for the rest.

Personally, I NEVER vote straight party ticket, even though I ONLY vote Democrat. I always fill in each individual bubble to get the maximum enjoyment out of voting against the Republican who is running in each individual race. Trust me; the satisfaction of seeing their name and voting for the Democrat is VERY satisfying. :evilgrin:

I would imagine that would be important news for new voters though. The rest of us already know that. This falls in the RTFM category.

Recommended so new voters know a little more about what they are doing. RTFB

[juno jones]

17. This may be one of the reasons that the 'Steal Back Your Vote'

guys are advising NOT to vote 'straight ticket' but vote for each office individually.

[JimDandy]

19. An explanation of why "Southern Democrats" split the straight-party vote:

"A state law passed in 1967 prohibits the combination of the vote for the president with any other office on the ballot. Why would a General Assembly controlled by Democrats in 1967 pass such a law? Straight party voting reduces the time it takes people to vote. It also means more votes are cast for offices lower on the ballot because people can simply register their vote for all partisan offices with one mark.

But for Southern Democrats in the 1960s, the specter of increasingly liberal candidates at the top of the ticket raised a problem. If the vote for president were included in the straight party option, Democrats who did not like the presidential nominee might be less inclined to vote straight party. The solution – separate the vote for president from the straight party vote."


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/406/story/236903.html

"Liberal", of course, meant "black" or "black-loving" to those 1960's Southern Democrats. Many of those Dems jumped ship in the 60's and joined the Republican party

[Jamastiene]

20. *sigh*

I hate that, but that is the truth about this state and why our ballots are like they are. *sigh*

[mwooldri]

22. Actual sample ballot from Alamance County, NC

http://www.alamance-nc.com/NR/rdonlyres/772B5FE8-2B9C-4FD8-8C0E-04C4AE4C4AB7/0/BallotStyle12008.pdf

It says so on the ballot that you MUST vote for President, straight-vote isn't enough.

Now if this story were about the DRE-counties machines flipping votes then yes, I'd believe it. But 2/3rds of NC are on paper ballots that are scanned - just like the above pdf ballot. Though I think the DRE machines now have a paper trail... though I'm not sure.

Mark.

[Jamastiene]

23. The only difference

between that sample ballot and the one here in Richmond County is the name of the county at the top of the ballot.

ftp://www.app.sboe.state.nc.us/enrs/samples/RICHMOND/8GRICH01.pdf

[mwooldri]

26. NC uses a uniform format, but there are differences...

... Federal House races, NC House and Senate races, County Commissioner races - Alamance is doing Board of Education, Richmond County isn't... these two ballots look the same initially but they are actual representations as to who is actually running and who is not.

NC has two types of machines county-wide - either the DRE or the scan-sheets. All same vendor.

[Jamastiene]

31. That is because it is not time for anyone's term to be up in the Board of Education here.

It's an off year. No one's term is up. When the time comes, we have Board of Education voting too.

[jmowreader]

24. Cumberland County's DREs have a paper trail

At the polling place I went to, they had iVotronics if you wanted to vote on a DRE, and optiscan if you asked for a paper ballot. The iVotronics not only had a paper trail, they gave you a double-check--after you'd picked the candidates you wanted to vote for, it showed you each page of the ballot with those candidates marked. There was also a printed record that showed up in a little window, so you could confirm who you'd voted for.

If there's going to be Diebolding on those machines, it's going to have to take place upstream from the DRE. The DREs themselves seem pretty solid to me.

[mwooldri]

27. That's good to know :)

The voting machines in NC are all from one vendor AFAIK and therefore Guilford and Mecklenburg's DRE's are identical to Cumberlands - and if you are happy with them then that makes me feel a whole lot more secure.

Mark.

[Jamastiene]

30. Our polling place allows us to choose.

I voted in one referendum on the electronic machine they had there. The rest of the time, I just get a thrill out of filling in the ovals next to each Democrat on the ballot* so I can figuratively stick it to the Republicans. :evilgrin:

*and for referendums and nonpartisan races too. You DO have to vote separately for them as well.

So, basically, what I normally do is:
Vote for president
Vote for nonpartisan offices
Vote for referendums, if there are any (Sometimes we have those. Sometimes we do not).
Vote for each and every candidate with a DEM next to their name** & ***.

**Except for a select few local county commissioners who fought Lollapalooza coming here for a concert back in 1996. I refuse to vote for those certain people ever again. None of them are up for re-election this year though.

***Also, there are some cases where there are multiple DEM candidates located in the same section together. If you vote straight party, you do not have to worry about it. If you vote like I do, you simply look in that section to see how many you can vote for. Every single section says, (You may vote for #)in all capital letters.

[quakerboy]

25. alternate title "voters forget to vote for president"

This, as several posters as Kos pointed out, is not a counting problem. It is a voting problem.


The simplest thing would be to get rid of the straight party choice. People should know who they are voting for, and its a small price to have to fill in 15 bubbles instead of 2, even in our modern ADD world.

[Jamastiene]

32. aka RTFB

Read The Fucking Ballot

That would help any voter immensely.