I am so sick of the lie being repeated that Bill Ayers has said he "didn't bomb enough."

[Berry Cool]

Brokaw used it yet again in the Powell interview.

Look it up, people. Ayers himself has said that if anything, what he regrets is not doing enough to STOP THE VIETNAM WAR--not that he didn't "bomb enough."

Yet, that's the meme that keeps being repeated, over and over, when the wingnuts want to paint Ayers as an "unrepentant terrorist" and Obama as dangerous for having even been in the same room with him, ever--that Ayers wishes he had PLANTED MORE BOMBS.

Not that he wishes he had done more to try to stop the war. That he wishes he had DONE MORE BOMBING.

Why? Because bombing is violent and scary and can maim and kill. Trying to stop a war? Not so scary. Not necessarily something that can maim or kill.

If you want to make someone guilty by association, it's not enough to associate him with someone who was trying to stop a war, and did some damn stupid-ass violent things in his attempts. You have to associate him with someone who enjoyed violence for violence's sake, bombing for bombing's sake. Someone whom you can imply just plain LOVED setting bombs, and wishes he had set more.

I know it's all the last desperate gasp of people who feel loss coming at them with the force of a freight train. But it still bugs the hell out of me, how they keep repeating and repeating the lie until people actually believe it's true. Especially when I hear it coming from the lips of a JOURNALIST, who is supposed to be devoted to the TRUTH. Who got his colleagues ousted from their job anchoring eletion coverage because THEY were too "biased." Please, don't make me laugh.

In short, if I hear one more person say that Ayers regrets not having set more bombs, I just may end up in the loony bin before Election Day. (Don't worry, though. I voted early.)

[1corona4u]

1. I know, and NO ONE ever clears it up!!

Even David Schuester let it go by yesterday....so fucking stupid....

[calimary]

2. Good point!

Needs to be said, read, and SPREAD.

[democracy1st]

3. got a link ?

[MelanieArt]

4. Does anyone have a good link

to his actual statement? I have some people I'd like to send this to. :)

[helderheid]

5. ditto (and welcome to DU)

[MelanieArt]

7. I found some info on Wiki on this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

"Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since 2000 stems from an interview he gave to The New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication.<20> The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again," as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility."<15> Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the interviewer's characterizations in a Letter to the Editor published September 15, 2001: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion."<21>

In the ensuing years, Ayers has repeatedly avowed that when he said he had "no regrets" and that "we didn't do enough" he was speaking only in reference to his efforts to stop the United States from waging the Vietnam War, efforts which he has described as ". . . inadequate the war dragged on for a decade."<22> Ayers has maintained that the two statements were not intended to imply a wish they had set more bombs.<22><23>"

There's more info there, and elsewhere on the web it would appear, but I haven't had a chance to look through it all yet.

BTW- Thanks! :) I've been around here since 2004 but I'm usually pretty quiet and haven't posted much.

[helderheid]

8. Thanks!

:hi:

[MelanieArt]

9. Here's a link from Ayers blog

http://billayers.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/im-sorry-i-think/

It seems his feelings are more complex than they're being made out to be.

[Waiting For Everyman]

6. I know. I agree with you, it's ignorant.

I'm very fed up with the general dissing of 60s war protestors by people who are younger than that, and don't know what the hell they're talking about, and couldn't have done nearly that well on their BEST DAY. I find it very strange that there is this schizophrenic belief that the civil rights protests were all great, and the VN war protests were all wrong. It was the same people! Doing the same things. At the same time.

Maybe those who weren't there ought to listen a bit more, and expound a bit less.

[Brazenly Liberal]

10. Drives me nuts, too

I don't get it. The double standard for assuming guilt is maddening. If a man is caught redhanded on videotape robbing a gas station, reporters will refer to him as an "alleged robber" for months or even years until he's convicted. But GOP talking points that are demonstrably false and even slanderous are repeated mindlessly as if the friendly Republican Party was just being helpful by doing their research for them.

[Mz Pip]

11. Bill Ayers isn't running for President

Diversionary tactics that hopefully most people will see through.

[seabeyond]

12. i am looking for info on the actual bombing. did he kill people? did he destroy property?

what exactly is this bombing that he did?

[On the Road]

13. What the Weather Underground Mostly Did Was Property Destruction

They were big on setting off bombs in ROTC offices on college campuses.

Apparently, all the bombs were detonated during off hours and caused no injuries, and they went out of their way to ensure that there were no casualties. (Although I believe one Weatherman blew himself up while making a bomb.)

Republicans have said recently that the Weathermen discussed bombing the Pentagon, but with the dishonesty that's been exhibited on the issue so far, I would want more evidence.

[seabeyond]

15. finally, lol.... thank you. some insight. significant. they talk bombing so casually, yet

they are not informative.

appreciate it.

[LisaL]

19. Hah?

You think bombing of property is nothing?
And his own girlfriend was apparently killed while making the bomb. That's nothing to you?

[seabeyond]

21. i think going after targeted places for statement is significantly different

than strapping on bombs and walking into a restaraunt, or flying planes into towers, or sittin bombs on the roadside to take out people.......... yes

as far as the girlfriend, all put themselves in that place and accepted the risk. that is solely their own....

intent always has mattered to me and will continue

no where did i suggest that any of this was nothing. to assume..... not smart. jail time for crime is perfectly appropriate to me, and i also understand why he did not get jail time. lawbreaking by our law.

[LisaL]

22. My point is people have died due to the bomb making

by the Weatherman members (even if those people were the bomb makers themselves).
The guy not only hasn't been tried, he is a professor and an author of a number of books, so he is living the good life.
Considering what is alleged, why has he not been put on trial?
I don't think Obama should be smeared regarding this, as Obama had nothing to do with the bombing.
As for Obama associating with Ayers, well, hello, Ayers is a free man and many people associate with him. Ayers hasn't even been tried for anything.

[On the Road]

23. That is a Good Question

You should find out the answer. The Weather Underground was certainly prosecuted. Have no idea if Ayers was one of those prosecuted, or what the verdict was.

[LisaL]

25. No, he was never put on trial, from what I read.

[seabeyond]

28. he went underground thru 70's. early 80's turned self in. judge let him go cause fbi

broke the law several ways gathering evidence against the man

[LisaL]

30. The guy hasn't been convicted nor tried.

He is a free man, as you or I. People are going to associate with him.
But I still don't get as to why he was just let go. Usually the judge just throws out improperly collected evidence. Prosecution can still put someone on trial, they just can't use the evidence that was thrown out.

[seabeyond]

32. because the fbi illegally wired tapped, broke in to get info without warrant

and the evidence was thrown out. what SHOULD happen when our law enforcement breaks the law. this is not a brainer here.

how our system USE to work. our law enforcement was accountable for their actions.

[LisaL]

36. Did they not have any legally collected evidence?

Like I said, usually the judge just throws out illegally collected evidence, but the prosecution can still put someone on trial with other evidence (assuming they have any).

[seabeyond]

38. sounds to me like, illegal wiretapping, breaking in without warrant, implies

evidence gathered was done so illegally. and that is what the judge said, and judge did let guy go and i dont think judge was rooting for guy when he did let him go.

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. The evidence appears to have been insufficient to prove conspiracy

So the judge threw it out.

Judges are often asked to decide whether remaining evidence against a defendant is sufficient after some evidence has been excluded. In this case, it was apparently NOT sufficient.

I'd suspect, given the nature of the surveillance programs unleashed on war protesters, that this case had essentially nothing after the illegally collected evidence was excluded. Just goes to show that the government should not engage in illegal evidence collection.

[seabeyond]

24. because the fbi broke the law to gather evidence against him.

that is not allowed either. i would also suggest (seeing where we are today) an even more serious crime than what ayers did.

you say people have died. i take it the girlfriend died? and then more people died? you didnt mention any of this.

[LisaL]

27. From reading wikipedia, his girlfriend had died while the

nail bomb she was making blew up.

[seabeyond]

29. ok.... so sounds to me it is the girlfirend suffering repercussion of her action.

but you say people .... people dies. that is more than one.

then you dont disclose the reason the man wasnt put on trial, just that he wasnt put on trial.

i dont play games in giving info. straight info is my way

[LisaL]

33. More than one had died.

Wikipedia lists three people (including the girlfriend) that died in the blast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

[seabeyond]

35. i saw from another poster. three people in apartment building the bomb... n/t

[LisaL]

18. From what I've read, Ayers own girlfriend blew herself up

while making the bomb.
Frankly, I don't understand why the guy has not been put on trial over what had been alleged he had done.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. What was he alleged to have done?

:shrug:

Specific charges, please.

[LisaL]

41. Well, according to this NYT article, he was indicted with

''conspiracy to bomb police stations and government buildings."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

So, I think it's safe to say it was alleged at some point of time he had participated in a conspiracy to bomb police stations and government buildings.
That's good enough for you?
The charges were later dropped because of methods the evidence was collected.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. I suspect the answer to your question is already apparent, then

He has not been charged in these offenses because once the illegally collected evidence was excluded, there was insufficient evidence to charge for the crimes alleged. This is not an uncommon event in courts of law. None of these crimes seem to have anything to do with the bomb that killed three of his cohort in Greenwich Village, so that seems beside the point.

I should also say that illegal collection of evidence is not a mere "technicality." It goes to the heart of our judicial process. In this case, the government was punished - quite rightly, I might add - for perpetrating the most extensive violation of civil liberties we know of (through the COINTELPRO program). If you can't collect evidence legally against a person, you have no business bringing them to trial for anything. Trials are for legally collected evidence to be presented, not illegal wiretaps and other violations of law.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. No innnocent people were ever killed by the Weather Underground bombings

The only three people killed by WU bombs were three WU members who were building a bomb in their NYC apartment. It went off and killed them.

[seabeyond]

34. thank you for info. n/t

[grantcart]

14. I agree but he has done nothing to clear it up

of course now its too late but he should have said early on something to the effect that "I wish I had done more and I should have kept to non violent means" unless he now believes that violence is now an effective means to change political policy.

[Raine]

16. I am too. It's an outright fucking LIE

and I'm sick of it! I almost thru something at the TV when yet AGAIN Brokow repeated that damnable LIE! :argh: :mad: :grr:

[LisaL]

17. I don't care what he said.

It shouldn't be used to smear Obama. Obama was a young child in the sixties.
Not a member of the Weather Underground.
As for Bill Ayers, why wasn't he put on trial?

[AZ Criminal JD]

44. He was not put on trial because he was a spoiled rich kid

His father was Thomas Ayers, the CEO of Commonwealth Edison, which supplies electricity to Illinois and Indiana. His father was a powerful figure in Chicago and nationally and was able to hire a roomful of lawyers to attack his son's indictments. He also was able to hire public relations firms to put the lie out to the public that the Weathermen "did not hurt anyone". Many on this site have repeated the lie today. They killed a married grad student at the University of Wisconsin when they blew up the math building. They killed a cop in San Francisco and an offshoot of their group killed the first black chancellor of education in Oakland -- for "working with the man". They were building bombs in New York to kill soldiers and their girlfriends at a dance at Ft. Dix, New Jersey when the bomb went off and killed three of the idiots. Included in their plans were to kill students at Columbia University library.



This is a link to the NYT article. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63. If you read it it says he does not regret setting bombs and says he did not do enough. Ayers apologists are trying to say this means the Vietnam war activity. B.S. Read the article. Ayers is a rich coward and so of course he now says it was about Vietnam because the quote did not look so good in print.

[leftist.]

20. Here's more. Enjoy! And thank hate radio when you get a chance.

- Pals around with terrorists
- Obama wants to wave the white flag of surrender
- Ayers said he "felt like we didn't do enough"
- Ayers bombed the Capital and New York
- Barack Obama and Osama Bin Laden have one thing in common - they both have friends that bombed the Pentagon
- "A downright mean country" Michelle Obama said in 2008
- He sat on a board with an unrepentant terrorist
- He showed he supported Louis Farrakhan by attending the million man march
- "For the first time in my adult life I'm proud of my country"
- He was born in Kenya and has three Kenyan birth certificates
- He sat in church listening to a racist pastor say "God Damn America" for 20 years
- Obama will make our economy like that of France
- Obama won't have to worry about a new cold war, he will agree with the Russians because he himself is a socialist

Which ones did I miss?

Edit, how could I have forgotten:

- Bitter Americans, clinging to their guns and religion

[Forkboy]

26. I was literally just talking about this on the phone with someone.

It was bugging us, too. It's one of those "minor" points that make a big change in context.

I think they ('they' being the people pushing the story) know it's tough to separate this from his other actions, and that anyone who tries to do so can be said to be defending Ayers completely. Tactically, it's a nice position for those using Ayers to attack Obama with, because it's easy to conflate the two pieces of Ayers into one and attack those who try to see the actual nuance. And in a normal election year it might even work. Sadly for them, and YAY! for us, this isn't a normal election year at all, and stuff like this, while tactically sound, is fairly useless in it's actual effect on the electorate this time around.

People have two choices of things to fear. Ayers and Obama being pals, or the fear of not making their mortgage or car payment or being able to eat. People will choose the fear that affects them personally every time.

[cliffordu]

39. They've also said that he said that on 9/11....

It was published on 9/11 - which means he said it ON THE 10TH, or before.....

And,as the OP said,it was really about general activism....and the Vietnam war....

[marshall]

40. Obama's not in a position to help Ayers now

Ayers is an easy target because Obama can't afford to defend him until after the election is won. He tried that with Wright and it blew up out of all proportion to the facts. I'm sure after all is said and done and the election is over steps will be made to make things right. I wouldn't be surprised if Ayers didn't end up in a position of influence in regards to education--though I suppose Secretary od Education is too much for him to hope for.

[LisaL]

42. Oh good god. Are you kidding me?

Obama should have nothing to do with this guy anymore, IMO.

[marshall]

50. My ALA subgroup has sent out an email calling for a defense of Ayers

They mention how dedicated he is at present to education and how unfair the attacks on him are. They call on all of us members to do all we can to spread the word.
I'm not completely convinced, but they do make a persuasive argument that this is all much ado about nothing.

[LisaL]

51. Did you read his interview with NYT?

He is dedicated to education? Big oppie doo.
I am kind of amazed the guy is in the position he is, teaching, considering the allegations and his background.

[LisaL]

43. It comes from NYT article about Ayers.

Frankly from reading the article it's not clear to me at all that Ayers just meant "didn't do enough to stop the war."
''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''

How should someone interpret this exactly?

And what should someone make of this? What would he do again if asked?

"So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ''I don't want to discount the possibility,'' he said."


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

[ErinBerin84]

47. didn't do enough to stop the Vietnam war...?

[LisaL]

48. By doing what exactly?

He doesn't regret setting bombs, and he feels they didn't do enough. What does he regret he didn't do more of?
Seems to me the outrage of the OP is completely misplaced.

[ErinBerin84]

49. never mind.

Not worth arguing over.