Red States in midwest, edumacate my elitist east coast azz

[treestar]

Why do the Repukes win there? Is it the social issues? Guns?

Does the Repuke economic view help people in the midwest in any way?

[TheCML]

1. Same reasone they win everywhere else.

Guns, God, Gays, Abortion

[treestar]

3. I figured it had to be social issues

Economically, the benefit doesn't seem to be there, unless it is just I am too ignorant of the economics and am thinking everyone is a farmer or rancher. And farmers have needed a lot of government help.

[blueinindiana]

2. RACISM

The Republicans successfully convinced white working class Americans in the 80's that the reason why they have had their wages cut and lost their jobs was blacks and other minorities took there jobs and spent their tax money.

[treestar]

4. And then with fewer minorities in the area it is easier to think that

Though I thought more illegal aliens were showing up in those states now - that too, convincing themselves they are taking their jobs might go to the racist angle, too.

[nosillies]

5. I'm in AR, and all I hear about is abortion abortion abortion

Seriously, these people think God is punishing our country because we allow babies to be killed. Oh yeah, and because we took prayer out of schools. Basically, every single thing wrong -- the economy, the endless war, the state of health care -- it's all because we're Godless, not because of years of failed conservative policies. That makes it very easy for them to vote against their own self-interest. They're sure that voting for the candidate who most closely shares their religious beliefs, and who is most willing to inject those beliefs into government, not the candidate whose proposed policies will benefit them personally, is the way to solve all problems in one fell swoop.

I'm not knocking religion, because I'm just as religious as they are, but I think they're terribly confused about the nature of God's will. Unfortunately, that confusion follows them into the voting booth.

In a way, you have to admire the tenacity of those who are willing to sacrifice their own well-being for the pursuit of loftier goals. Isn't that what progressives do when we gladly encourage and pay higher taxes in order to support social services from which we may never reap benefits? It's just that most of us feel that their "lofty goals" are terribly misguided.

[treestar]

7. Thanks, those are some good points

It's hard for me to understand why abortion is so important to them, but they are giving up their own interest in the service of a more lofty goal. Then again, abortion only voters are taking an easy way out - preventing abortions takes a lot more than just voting for a presidential candidate that happens to take the same side on the issue - what effect has their voting repuke had all those years? They'd need to do more social outreach, strangely, the Democrats are better on that.

I too have a religious faith more practical - I don't think one can coast on faith alone - if that were so, everything would be wonderful all the time!

[nosillies]

8. "Taking the easy way out" -- exactly right

Sticking to a one-note belief system removes all necessity for critical thinking and independent thought. Exactly why I think many of my friends simply vote in lock-step with their repug husbands, even when I KNOW their social beliefs are very liberal. Just do what hubby says, because there's no time for me to do the research on my own!

[Beregond2]

10. I'm always confused by the "prayer in schools" issue.

I'm 54, and there was NEVER prayer in any public school I attended. So why is this an issue for them?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

11. I'm a little older, and there was prayer in my public school

mostly around mid-term exams and finals

:rofl:

[nosillies]

12. Maybe it's a Southern thing?

At my elementary school, we started each day with the pledge and the Lord's prayer. No kidding. Two students were chosen each day to lead the whole school in the prayer and pledge over the intercom. I always wanted to get picked for the prayer, because it was longer, and I loved the sound of my own voice.

Of course, my principal was also a Baptist preacher. And as far as I know, no adult ever questioned this ritual!

:shrug:

edit to add: I'm 34, so it's not like my elementary days were ancient history. We're talking early 80's.

[Beregond2]

15. It probably is regional.

I grew up in WA. Even if someone had wanted to have the Lord's Prayer read, there would have been such a squabble between the Catholics and the Protestants over which version to use, it would never have happened.

There did use to be a separate graduation ceremony called Baccalaureate, that was religious in nature and held on school property. But it faded away due to lack of interest.

[treestar]

17. Me neither, I thought that could only take place in Catholic schools

anyway.

I've never understood its importance either. How can anyone seriously say that just having a prayer in school every morning is going to have so much effect and make kids act as respectful as they (supposedly) did in the 1950s. It's going to cure teen pregnancy and drug use and everything. It's absurd.

[XemaSab]

28. We had prayer in my school

In chapel, once a week.

Okay, it was an Episcopalian school, but there was PRAYER IN SCHOOLS when I was growing up. :shrug: :P

[ginnyinWI]

6. Abortion and Homosexuality

I just got done answering an email from my dad explaining, again, how voting for a Dem is not voting for a "baby-killer" and is not voting for "homosexuals". :eyes:

It's falling on deaf ears, again, but it feels good to answer the charges and (politely) stick up for my party and my vote.

[TXDemGal]

9. I figure this year it will be because

of Fear of a Black Man in the WHITE House, in addition to the usual suspects (guns, God, gays).

[liberalpragmatist]

13. Most of the midwest voted blue the last few elections

... and historically, the Midwest has always been a swing region. It still is.

But in 2004, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Pennsylvania (western Pennsyvlania is very Midwestern) voted for Kerry.
Iowa, Indiana, Missouri and Ohio voted for Bush in 2004, and Iowa voted for Gore in 2000.

Ultimately, it's just that the Midwest has a big rural and small town population that is sort of traditional. For the most part, it isn't as rabidly right-wing or evangelical as the South. Not that there aren't pockets of that - there are - but Midwestern conservatism and Southern conservatism are actually fairly different. Midwestern conservatism is more fiscal in nature, based more on an aversion to change rather than a hatred of other people.

[treestar]

18. The fiscal conservatism

Is it just fear of change or is there some way midwestern and western red states benefit from the hands off economic policy?

[Kalyke]

33. Oh, yeah... all us Southerners just hate people.

:eyes:


The most red state is Utah, which, according to my map is NOT in the South, but the bread-basket mid-West.

[PVnRT]

34. Check out a map, please

Utah is nowhere near the Midwest, even by very liberal definitions of the term.

[brentspeak]

14. Uh, you of all people shouldn't be talking about "Repuke economic views"

You're the DLC representative on DU; you don't differ from the GOP on economic matters.

[treestar]

16. You must have me mixed up with somebody else

It's flattering to be remembered from other posts, I guess.

[TheDoorbellRang]

19. No easy access internet in rural areas

When I canvassed in Missouri's rural areas, the majority of folks were not on the internet. Many would tell me they just didn't know who to believe on tv anymore, but they have no other source of info.

The friend I stayed with out in the country had an internet connection that would have driven me insane. Only way she could watch anything on youtube, for example, was to let it download for literally hours.

Obama's plan to get broadband out into rural areas will help combat the dearth of info and the mass of dis-info these people get.

[jsmirman]

20. Please lock anything that deals with separating us into parts of a country

and this comes from a former "the hell with all them" proponent. But it's not healthy now. Please knock it off.

[GirlieQ]

21. But we aren't homogenous.

I'm a big city gal living in the boonies of a flyover state. The issues out here (and my district is insanely rural) are so different than the issues in more populous areas. Farm subsidies, road projects, the price of gas, those are the important things here. It's a big change from a mindset of trying to build up inner cities, healthcare for the poor, good education for everyone...

That's why we have an electoral college, so the less populous areas have a say. They are fundamentally different, and that's not a bad thing. It's not like this thread has become a bitch-about-hicks thread.

[jsmirman]

23. That's fine, but is it really productive to start the conversation by

embracing the stereotypes? I just think this is divisive and unwise language.

[GirlieQ]

26. It's just as unproductive as all of the other petty name-calling here.

Repukes, reich-wing, whatever. Most people aren't as horrible as the radio hosts or pastors who claim to speak for them.

I understand trying to get away from the stereotypes, but it isn't the regional ones that are the huge problem here, it's the us (D) vs. them (R). This OP seemed to me to be more trying to understand where voters in the middle are coming from than 'let's make fun of hicks'. I'll be the first to say that most of my family is the definition of stereotyping. Think hicks from Kansas. Then again, half of my family is mostly normal suburban types who pulled themselves out of the lower class. The mindset that they learned when they were children is still there, though. It's like Obama said, that in general they've been cut out of the political process and have found some issue to care about. The issues that really effect them aren't being addressed (and those would be the regional issues), so they grab onto something smaller than their general welfare, something that can be a country-wide movement, something that they think they can actually change. Guns, gods, and gays...

I read the OP as an actual question, not as trolling.

[jsmirman]

36. Again, though, look how he asked it

and many of the responses in this thread have been less than elucidating... but thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

[XemaSab]

29. I like learning about different parts of the country

and sometimes reciting the stereotypes are a valuable way to open that dialogue. :shrug:

[RayOfHope]

22. Bible Belt. Uneducated people+ religion=rabid repukes. n/t

[RoadRage]

24. I'm in NE...

It's mainly social issues. There is usually a church on every corner in the bigger cities, and 3 - 4 per small 500 person town. God rules life in the midwest... it's a "simpler" way. :eyes:

The economy also has a part as well.. frankly, the midwest didn't see the big up-swing back in the early 2000's with the tech bubble and real estate bubble.. but we also don't see the downturns as fast or as hard either. Not a whole lot of jobs have been lost here yet (knock on wood), and so people aren't scared and voting for the person that will best fix the economy - because so far, they don't really see that it's broken.

Also, in NE with agriculture.. high fuel prices help ethenol production which helps farmers stay wealthier.... nevermind that McCain wants to stop ethenol subsidies (which is one of the issues I actually AGREE with him on ironically). But, that will certainly piss off a bunch of Farmers who don't want to hear that it takes more fuel to produce ethonol then actually usuing it.

[ej510]

25. EDUCATION!!!!!! They lack education the reason Virginia and North Carolina are changing is because

college graduates are staying home.

[TwilightGardener]

27. Actually, states like Nebraska and Iowa and the Dakotas are pretty well-educated, so

that's not it--even with a bit of brain-drain going on, can't say it's a matter of education here. There's dumb hicks, for sure (I know many!), but no different than in Pennsylvania, where I grew up.

[PVnRT]

35. If you're going to complain about a lack of education, try to sound educated.

Signed,

A Hoosier College Graduate

[olkaz]

30. People would like to tell you racism and anti-intellectualism, but it's simpler than that.

People in rural areas rarely are cognizant of situations in which the government is helping them. Since they have usually lived in Republican rule their entire lives, social services are nil. They have engrained into them that everyone has to fight for their own existence, and that since the government serves as an agent to reduce their own personal wealth (and thereby threatening their existence) they want to minimize it.

It will take generations to convince them otherwise.

[Two Americas]

31. opposition to aspects of modern liberalism

The first thing to understand is that often 40-45% of the people in rural counties are Democrats. I find them to be much stronger traditional New Deal Democrats than you ever can find in the suburbs. Why don't we ask this - "why do suburbanites vote Republican? Is it greed? Dominance? Status? Arrogance?" Or this question - "why do suburban liberals come out to farm country and condescendingly lecture people about how they should be living and working? Is it greed? Dominance? Status? Arrogance?"

Just as the face that many more urbane people see of rural America is a distorted caricature from which they make generalizations, so too the face of modern liberalism that many rural people see is a distortion based on the most obnoxious people they encounter from the cities.

There is a rejection of "do-gooder meddlesome city slickers." That caricature of "liberals" is at least as accurate as the stereotypical way that many suburbanites see rural people. This has nothing to do with opposition to the political Left, nor is it necessarily support for the Republicans or conservative political views.

I was involved in a project two years ago that successfully put every rural district in Michigan into play, and turned all but a couple Democratic for the first time in decades. We did that with a New Deal left wing economics approach, by networking in the farming organizations, and by keeping the culture war liberals from the suburbs as far away from the effort as possible. We did not need people coming out and lecturing people about guns, their religion, their supposed lack of education, or "organic."

[faithfulcitizen]

32. God, guns, gays.

[krispos42]

37. Because the people out there own a lot of land

And they have to deal a lot more with "I used to be able to do X but now the gubmint sez I can't no more" laws and regulations regarding pesticides, fertilizers, land use, grazing, water rights, wildlife habitat, endangered species, etc., then your average suburbanite or urbanite. And it makes them all prickly and pissed. The benefits from government oversight and regulation are nebulous but the "interference" is direct.


And even though most of the people in a red state don't own large tracts of land but live in cities and towns, their livestyle, society, and economy is dependent upon farming/ranching and thus strongly influenced by it.



A smaller part is probably the gun issue. For the past 20 years the official policy of the Democrats is that gun control=crime control and that we have been spewing what is basically BS and lies about guns in order to get laws passed. They have a low opinion of city folk that don't know when they're being bamboozled and that, when faced with a problem, refuse to take responsibility for their own safety in their own hands.



But mostly it's the land issue. They have a lot of conflicts with the federal government being driven by "brainy eggheads in a city someplace".