"That one" is what you folks picked up on?

[Guaranteed]

Of everything that went on in that debate?

That's what you're wanting to talk about?


I just got home from watching the debate, logged on, and there's ten threads on "That one" on the front page of GD: P. Not ten threads about Obama's amazing presentation of himself or his rebuttals of McCain's attacks. Not about McCain NOT attacking Obama re Ayers. Not about the economy or Obama's approach to fixing it. Not even about how McCain seemed OLD AS HELL while Obama simply looked young enough to face the challenges we face.


Folks- give me a freaking break. "That one" was absolutely nothing. I damned near laughed at the incompetence of it myself.

[DefenseLawyer]

1. No offense

But you are tone deaf.

[Guaranteed]

8. No offense, but you missed....

the whole debate....


if that's what you're talking about.

[Lex]

15. it's what the pundits are picking apart too

[DefenseLawyer]

28. Apparently there are a lot of idiots like me

that were taken aback by John McCain referring to his opponent and fellow United States Senator as "that one". It was disrespectful dismissive and racist. Sorry it pains you to see John McCain called out, but that's what's coming out of this debate so you had better have another drink.

[Guaranteed]

29. I don't think that's what people are going to be talking about.

Obama just showed more readiness to be President.

McCain's stuck in the past, Obama's the future.

[LiberalHeart]

43. I don't think it's racist at all, but maybe that's because I've heard that phrase all my life.

Generally the setting is older folks talking about kids who are present, and it is used in a needling or teasing way. But I've also heard spouses use the same phrase in a joshing way when telling people about something silly their other half (who's present) did. I've never seen the turn of phrase used in a racial situation. Not ever. Including tonight.

[DefenseLawyer]

47. Okay.

You are welcome to interpret it any way you like. He wasn't talking to some parents about their kids, he was talking about a grown man- a United States Senator at that. You may never have heard someone refer to a black person as "one of the good ones", but I have. Referring to a man as an object, refusing to even acknowledge that he is a man, much less a Senate colleague, is problematic for me and it strikes me as being racially tinged. It doesn't appear that I am the only one who felt that way, but you are welcome to defend Grampa McCain as just joshin with the kids.

[LiberalHeart]

63. That isn't how I view it.

The unspoken part is the setup for the remark: "You have two candidates before you at this moment."

McCain told folks what his approach was, then -- differentiating between himself and Obama -- he prefaced his remarks about Obama's approach by saying "that one," indicating who he was talking about. This is hardly an example of racism.

I'm not defending McCain's behavior or beliefs. I'm just stating what is true about that particular phrase in usage as I've heard it all my life. There's enough racism in the world without trying turn something that isn't racist into a big deal.

Considering the color of my family, I've probably heard most of the things that people say when referring to an African American, but no, I've never heard anyone say s/he's "one of the good ones." But even if I had, I don't know what that would have to do with this discussion. That isn't what McCain said.

[chascarrillo]

58. No offense, but I'm not an apologist for racism.

[JBoy]

2. Except "that one" is what people will be talking about tomorrow.

[babylonsister]

3. I tried, but DU is moving fast...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7361527&mesg_id=7361527

[BlooInBloo]

4. The wahmbulance will be there to pick you in 5 minutes.

[Lex]

22. "you folks"

or "you people" is always such a great way to start a thread anyway

[Guaranteed]

33. LOL I'll redirect it to the people talking about "That one"

We can be a lot more effective than "That one". Sorry.

[Labors of Hercules]

5. I thought Obama sinched it on healthcare tonight.

It was breathtaking!!! :woohoo:

[Demi_Babe]

6. let me tell you something...respect still means something in my house and when I heard those words

out of his mouth...it stabbed me like a knife. It shocked me.

[Guaranteed]

13. Yeah, it was disrespectful, but it was, in the grand scheme of

things, totally insignificant. It's just McCain's style- he's old. His mind doesn't work that fast and he doesn't pay attention to how addresses other people that well.

[RagAss]

17. Well, that's a comfort.

[Guaranteed]

23. It just wasn't surprising, and as far as the tone of it all

there's other things to talk about.

[Beartracks]

31. Yes, it was just a toss-off way to refer to an opponent.

Was it disrespectful? I don't think it was intended to be. As he said it, the words caught for a brief moment, like he was trying to come up with something witty, then realized "witty" wasn't happening just then, so all that came out, in its completely un-formed glory, was: "That one." The follow-up should have been obvious; he should then have referred to himself as: "This one," but I think he went on to call himself simply: "Me."

[Guaranteed]

32. Exactly- he was just being overly colloquial.

And, yeah, it was disrespectful- but hardly even worth talking about. Not even an issue.

There are much, much bigger stylistic problems with McCain.

[Beartracks]

36. Colloquial! That's it. A failed colloquialism. n/t

[LiberalHeart]

64. Exactly.

[kestrel91316]

34. Well, he should have paid attention. Because it just lost him the election.

[goodgd_yall]

59. You think that did?

I thought last debate's performance---his never looking at Obama---was the one that did it. Really, I think that had more of an effect on the electorate than being given credit. It just so happened to coincide with the bailout mess, so people who analyze such things are saying Obama is ahead because the bad economy is in focus now.

[KitchenWitch]

14. I was shocked and aghast myself.

For the same reasons.

[proud patriot]

42. Respect is a big issue in my House too

I'm still reeling ..

I hope America sees what I see .

[NYC Liberal]

7. There are PLENTY of threads about Obama's incredible performance.

But we already know how awesome he is! We had no doubt he'd do exceedingly well.

People are gonna remember his "that one" comment. No it's not huge, but it's George Bush looking at his watch, back in 1992.

[Voice for Peace]

9. yeah, that one!

[vaberella]

10. I heard it but it didn't resonate with me. It was the HANDSHAKE or lack there of.

First McCain taps Obama on the shoulder, Obama turns around to McCain and Cindy and puts his hand out to shake. McCain points to Cindy for Obama to shake her hand and McCain snubbed Obama.

[Beartracks]

38. They did shake hands. It was when...

... they stepped in front of the camera right at the end of the debate, blocking Tom Brokaw's view of the teleprompter. The handshake itself was below the bottom edge of your tv screen.

[vaberella]

52. Then that wasn't a handshake because I can't be sure. n/t

[City of Mills]

11. Now there's 11 threads, thanks!

What else is bothering you about DU tonight?

[Lex]

12. Not ten threads about Obama's amazing presentation?

Um. Yeah right.

[Richard Steele]

39. Not ten- far more. As we all can clearly see. nm

[PermanentRevolution]

16. "Macaca" was a nothing event, but it cost George Allen his seat

Little things like this tend to resonate far, far more with undecided voters than issues do, as sad as that may be.

[Guaranteed]

25. No- THAT wasn't nothing.

That was racist.

[PermanentRevolution]

51. I'm not convinced "that one" wasn't racist

But regardless, let me clarify. In terms of how they relate to the issues of the campaign, both were nothing moments - verbal gaffes indicative of nothing of significance other than the personal disposition of the candidate. The importance attached to "Macaca" was what it said about George Allen as a person, not what it said about his stance on issues. The same is true of "that one." The impact it will have on the McCain campaign will similarly be in what the public believes it conveys about the candidate's personality and disposition.

The full impact will play out over the next few days, but an offhand dismissive comment like that may resonate greatly among voters. Or, it may turn out to be an over-inflated blogosphere reaction.

Time will tell.

[AspenRose]

18. The presentation threads were going on in real time

So you missed them.

[buzzard]

19. Agree it is nothing, I still think Mcain is just jealous.n/t

[FrenchieCat]

20. I don't think it requires so many threads......

as it cheapens OBama's victory, which was overwhelming without it.

[book_worm]

21. I'm afraid it was the sound bite of the debate. I was at a debate watch and people gasped at that.

[slampoet]

24. What do you mean by "You Folks" ?

[Guaranteed]

27. I mean "Those ones"

"Yous all"

[Starry Messenger]

26. You missed a lot of cool live blogging.

this is post-game.

[Patchuli]

30. It was simply a lack of respect for Obama

as a person. Obama in McCain's place would have referred to McCain as 'that gentleman over there.'

It's simply class vs. classless.

And yes, you made some excellent points aside from that.

[Beartracks]

35. I don't believe he was motivated by,...

... or was intending to convey, a lack of respect for Obama. I think he was reaching for some witticism with which to refer to Obama without calling him the usual "distinguished senator" or "worthy opponent" or whatever. Nothing witty came to mind, he saw Obama sitting there, he already had his finger or thumb jerked in Obama's direction, and all that came out was: "That one." He even stumbled a bit on "That" which is why I think he wasn't even thinking those specific words when they came tumbling out.

I'm certain that McCain was just as surprised as you were when he heard what it.

[vaberella]

54. No he didn't stumble at all on "That".

I think you're giving McCain far far too much credit. "witticism"? The man was blathering about during the entire interview. That wasn't witticism, he was thinking it was going to be funny, plane and simple and it turned into an insult. I think he knew where it would go because if we're seeing it as funny it can also be read as condescending and touching on racist...it's a poorly chosen entendre that had no sort of wit or charm involved.

[Beartracks]

67. I didn't say he *was* witty...

I said I got the impression he was *hoping* to be. And he didn't really stumble, per se, but there was a very slight hesitation just as he started to say, "That one," a barely perceptible break in the flow of his words -- as if his brain suddenly changed direction just as he was about to refer in some way to Obama, but nothing came of it, and his brain realized it didn't have any appropriately thought-out way to refer to his opponent, leaving him pointing and saying, "That..." -- but, that what? That person? Sounds a little silly, how about That politician? Too corny, everyone knows he's a politician. Oh, I know: That liberal, elitist, inexperienced... Oh shit! And that's when McCain heard "...one" coming out of his mouth, because his brain decided it was taking too long coming up with anything else.

As for "That one" being racist, that's hogwash. Obama just happens to be black. I think McCain would've blurted that out at John Edwards or Hillary Clinton, too.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

[mtnsnake]

37. We're not the only ones who picked up on that. The entire country did

and everyone is talking about it. Why? Because it's damned well significant, that's why.

[boppers]

40. Message: "The ONE" (see cufflinks, the TV ads, etc.)

He was on message, but it doesn't seem like the message has enough legs to stand on yet.

[scarletwoman]

41. "That one" stuck out in a major way, and it's not just us. On my local evening news after the debate

the station's political reporter gave a brief rundown about the debate, and wrapped up his presentation by commenting that "BY FAR!" the most emails he was receiving were about McCain saying "That one".

As someone in another thread said, it was McCain's "Macaca" moment.

It struck a nerve with people all over the country -- it actually IS significant, and may have done more to turn people off to McCain than any detailed policy presentation could ever do.

Instead of railing against it, how about being happy that "That one" is having such a detrimental impact on McCain?

sw

[Guaranteed]

46. That would...

surprise me.


But, hey... if like you're saying people are talking about that over the next few days...that's just fine with me.


I'd just be surprised.

[scarletwoman]

50. I'm just telling you what the local TV news was covering right after the debate.

I'm not making any predictions about "the next few days".

Personally, when McCain said that, I was absolutely taken aback -- I could hardly believe it. It was so laden with contempt.

I think it was a major nail in McCain's coffin -- but time will tell, of course.

sw

[FloridaGrl]

44. As an african american

it was extremely insulting. Politics aside- Sen. Obama is a person he has a damn name. I am going to bed because I am boiling, I am sooo pissed. The words I have in my head for Mr McCain tonight, DU would not allow. He is a low piece of racist crap and that's what "I" took from the debate tonight.

[JeffR]

48. Your post speaks for me.

You captured it perfectly.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

55. As a white person

I couldn't agree more.

For god's sake, Palinocchio managed to appear more respectful in the VP debate than McAsshole did tonight. My first thought was that he was acting like a racist. How humiliating for this country that he's even a candidate in this election!

[goodgd_yall]

45. That's because it's easy to talk about

Really---don't you think that's why some things really take off on the DU board? It's easy to get outraged about it, everybody's in agreement.

[stillcool]

49. "That one" made me livid...

[DainBramaged]

53. Thanks for your concern, now give us a fucking break.

[ErinBerin84]

56. the press likes a theme,

And this adds to the theme of McCain as a pissed off, angry troll. And this isn't the only thing that "we" picked up on, so whatever. We clearly called it on what the press would pick up on though.

[chascarrillo]

57. BGL, 1988: "'You're no Jack Kennedy' is what you folks picked up on?"

[barack the house]

60. I think his petty nature is pretty significant in how he will appraoch other nations really.

[jberryhill]

61. We're already in the tank

The substantive stuff just doesn't matter anymore. I can't vote any harder for Obama than casting my vote.

McCain has nothing of substance to offer or discuss anymore, and when we get down to the wire it is the great mirror of this "macaca moment" that is being held up to the face of those on the other side who are going to have to ask themselves, "Who the hell have I been keeping company with all of these years?"

[grace0418]

62. It so perfectly encapsulated all the disrespect and barely contained racism that McCain

has for Obama. It may be insignificant to you, but to me and to A LOT of other people who heard it, it was revolting. Yes, I enjoyed Obama's presentation and his rebuttals. Yes, I was happy to see Ayers being a non-issue (as it should be). Yes, I was happy with Obama's plan for the economy. Yes, I was troubled to see how terrible McCain looked.

But "THAT ONE" resonated. And if it's another nail in McCain's political coffin, why are you complaining?

[TexasObserver]

65. The problem is your lack of awareness.

Since you fail to see why it is a story, that's something you might work on.

[WinkyDink]

66. Since it showed the Real McCain, it's a Story. He deliberately looked for a way to snark on "THE

One". But he ended up sounding peevish, like "That woman, Monica Lewinsky", without the "make-up" appositive.