Nader/Gonzalez: "Open the Debates"

[Better Believe It]

Nader/Gonzalez: "Open the Debates"
by Tamika Thompson
The Huffington Post
October 3, 2008

In their vice-presidential debate Thursday night, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin and Delaware Senator Joe Biden ended in a veritable draw, not unlike Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama in their first presidential debate.

But what if there were a third (and fourth) candidate on the debate stage? What might he or she add to the discussion?

Former San Francisco Board of Supervisors President and Ralph Nader running-mate Matt Gonzalez said third party candidates would offer Americans more of a "clash of ideas."

"Given the incredible economic time that we're in," said Gonzalez, allowing third party candidates in the debate "would be just a greater call for more ideas."

"I like to remind people that it's a position that's not unequal to these other candidates in terms of giving me enough legitimacy to debate them," said the attorney and former public defender. "The budget of San Francisco alone exceeds, nearly doubles that of Alaska and Delaware.

Please read the entire article at:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tamika-thompson/nadergonzalez-open-the-de_b_131755.html

[RBInMaine]

1. We've already had one NUT in a debate. we don't need two, Ralph. Go back to the asylum.

[Better Believe It]

4. Let Me Suggest That You Read Articles Before Commenting On Them

If you didn't see the V-P debate, will you also be giving us your opinion on how the Biden and Palin did?

Matt Gonzalez, a candidate for Vice-President was commenting on the Vice-Presidential debate. Read the article and tell me if you still think Matt Gonzalez is a left-wing "nut" and why you believe that.

[NNadir]

14. Apparently you think people should read claptrap because you do.

We're educated.

We know who Ralph Nader is, and we know that we don't give a rat's ass about him, or people who read about him. You are in exactly the equivalent position of some Repuke cretin announcing that we need to read Bill O'Reilly's latest book.

We don't need to read your books, your articles or any other anti-Democratic propaganda you post.

Got it?

No?

That's not our problem. Shove off Repuke.

[LiberadorHugo]

48. Nader is a fucking nut...

He sided with the far-right on the Terri Schiavo case.

[NNadir]

2. Why do we need extra psychotic Republicans on the stage?

[malta blue]

3. I really feel for the Nader/Gonzalez ticket in that this is

NOT THE TIME for them to be viable candidates in the election.

I agree that this country would benefit from a multi-party system, but that is considered "too progessive" for most people. Nader's involvement in this election should not in any way shape a victory for McCain. If it does, then he has done the American people the greatest of disservices in history. He already left us with Bu$h.

[RBInMaine]

5. NADER IS A NUT. HE SHOULD BE RUNNING WITH PALIN ! GET THIS CRAP OFF A DEM SITE !

[Better Believe It]

8. News Flash! Gore won and Bush lost in 2000

But with a little help from Gore's running mate, Joseph Leiberman, and the Supreme Court, Bush was able to steal the election!

Now I sure hope you don't blame Ralph Nader for Al Gore's inability to even carry his home state of Tennessee!

[salguine]

20. THANK YOU, Better Believe It.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

50. If not for Nader, Lieberman, SCOTUS, and Bush would not have played a role.

And as for Tennessee, it'd been more than a decade since Gore had been elected from Tennessee. It changed considerably over that time, and I sincerely doubt they really thought of him as being a Volunteer at that point.

[mduffy31]

6. Seriously wont Nader die already?

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. The debate was "a veritable draw"? I think the American people disagree.

[Skip Intro]

9. If Nader gets a spot on the debates, then so should McKinney and Barr, and hell,

I'll form the Utopian party and demand my place on the stage.


Seriously, our system is fucked that no third party can seem to breakthrough the media and machines taht see to it we deal only with a two party system, but there's a lot that needs to change before that happens, just demanding to be included in the debate four weeks before the election because you offer different ideas is not the place to start. I don't know how many parties there are in the US, running a prez candidate this time around, but I know that they can all make the same argument that they offer different ideas that Americans deserve to hear before making a choice.

[mzmolly]

10. About 200 people run for President in every US election.

Wasn't sure if Nader was advocating for all candidates or not?

[Odin2005]

11. Shut up, Ralph. Just shut up.

Nader lost any moral authority he had in 2000. He should of stayed a consumer advocate.

[FloridaGrl]

12. Who?

[Hellataz]

13. I saw Nader on Bill Maher last week and he's a nut job

I couldn't understand most of his ramblings and Bill had to keep cutting him off. I remember last election Bill pleaded with Naders to bow out of the race so that all his green party votes would go to Kerry so we could win. I understand the validity of having more then 2 parties, but seriously they never come close to the voters that the Dem and GOP get so they need to stop interfering with the real election cause i really think a lot of those independent and green party votes would go to the Democrats.

[Better Believe It]

16. Is That Why The Audience Kept Applauding Ralph Nader?

People can look at the video and see who is telling the truth and who is the nut job .... you or Ralph Nader.

And if you followed what happened in the 2004 election and this election you would know that:

Ralph Nader was not the Green Party candidate for President in 2004.

Bill does not oppose Ralph Nader's running in this election.

Do you think that all 3rd party and independent candidates who run for office are "interfering" with democratic and free elections?

If so, I imagine you would support an amendment to the Constitution that would only permit the Democratic and Republican parties to run candidates for public office to stop people from interfering with a Republican/Democratic party monopoly in politics. Is that correct?

People don't have to believe me .... or you. They can look at the video and decide for themselves if Nader acted like a nut job on the show at this link:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x206726

[DefenseLawyer]

17. Green Party Underground is down the street.

Give them our best when you leave and go there.

[iamthebandfanman]

21. defending nader in any shape or form DOES NOT

make you non/anti democrat.


you dont run DU, and you dont run the democratic party, all are welcome here.


you know, just because you dont like a subject doesnt mean it shouldnt and cant be discussed.. i think youve been living in bushes america a lil too long with that attitude.


nader USED to be a great liberal/progressive leader.
but he got into himself and forgot about the cause and how you effectively go for change...

he decided it was about him and that he couldnt change the democratic party...
us sane liberals know that we can, and co-operation with others is necessary to promote and push our agenda.

just because he gave up hope doesnt make him a horrible person. just misguided. something tells me you have the 'with us or against us' mentality tho... once again, youve been in bushes america a lil to long.

[DefenseLawyer]

26. Simple Question: Is Ralph Nader working to elect Barack Obama President?

No? Well guess what sport, that would make him anti-Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has a nominee and it's not Ralph Nader. We are working every day to elect Barack Obama, not placate delusional Ralph Nader apologists. You are welcome to support Ralph, this just seems like an odd place to do it

[iamthebandfanman]

28. how was anybody supporting him?

by posting an article that says he should be allowed to debate?


let me check something real quick...

ope, yup, this is still america... even under bush..

anybody should have the right to run for president and everyone should have the right to be heard.


but hey, if you think only certain people who are affliated with certain political partys should be allowed to run for president then maybe you dont need to be voting for obama...cause...
sounds an awful lot like what the republicans want.

you have tons of reasons for the loss in 2000, putting it all on nader because he dared(HOW DARE HIM) to run for president is just fucking stupid. sorry, but it is.

[DefenseLawyer]

31. Look, anyone can run for president.

You can run for President if you want. Ralph is free to run for President and take your money for as long as you are willing to send it to him. Knock yourself out. I never once said your boy shouldn't run for president. I might say he is a fraud and a pathetic shell of a man, but I never once said he had no right to run for president. What I did say for sure was that this is DEMOCRATIC underground. Big D. We have a candidate. It ain't your boy. All I suggested was that this is the wrong forum to try to prop up another candidate, even one as pathetic as Ralph Nader.

[JerseygirlCT]

15. Ralph is such an attention whore.

No one cares, Ralph. Just go away, will you?

[eshfemme]

18. I would have more respect for Ralph Nader if he did something other than run for President

Seriously, what has he done in the 4 years in between? Has he helped the Green Party build its infrastructure or raise its profile? Has he worked on constantly advocating for the changes that he always is so passionate about during election campaigns? The ones that are so essential that they warrant his being a potential spoiler every 4 years? I'd like to know.

His non-election year sightings are so fucking rare that seeing him out in public during those times is like catching sight the Yeti.

[GarbagemanLB]

19. Gore is not president in large part because of Nader. Fuck him.

[iamthebandfanman]

23. bullshit.

there should be no room for people like you in the progressive movement. blaming someone for daring to run for president.

personally, i blame voter fraud and the 80 thousand people who lost their votes in florida because of false voter purging... i also blame the supreme court for making a decision that they had no right to decide... i also blame a complacent democratic party that choose not to fight against it as to not look like 'babys' like the right had said they would...

theres alot of blame to go around , so stop with the bullshit.

[GarbagemanLB]

24. Oh really? How many votes did he have in Florida? And how close was it?

[iamthebandfanman]

25. how many were falsely removed because of

a voter purge done by the republicans in charge in florida?

seriously, stfu if you dont know what youre talking about. itll save ya some time and any lame effort to distort what happened.

[GarbagemanLB]

27. You are fooling yourself if you don't think he hurt Gore in Florida. He then had the nerve to say

there was no difference between Bush and Gore. He is a fucking idiot.

[iamthebandfanman]

30. he can say what he fucking wants

that doesnt make him soley responsbile for the loss in 2000.


yeah, those 80000 black voters(who were marked as felons just because they had the same last name as someone who was a felon) and the thousands of jewish voters that 'accidently' voted for pat buchanan(a fucking bigot) had nothing to do with it ... gosh all those votes wouldnt have made gore win at all...

oh wait, they would have... and ope whats that, they would be MORE than what nader even received.

seroiously, there are plenty of people around to hate... pick someone else to put all this anger and recentment towards. its sad.

[Better Believe It]

36. 250,000 Florida Registered Democrats Voted for Bush, not Nader

Why did Leiberman/Gore fail to get those votes?

The problem was Leiberman and the incredibly weak campaign of Gore.

It was so fricken bad that over 2 million people vote for Nader!

And you blame Nader for the Gore/leiberman failure to take on and defeat Bush by a landslide?

I've heard lots of pathetic excuses for that failure.

The weakest one is the constant whining and crying about Nader allegedly stealing votes from Gore that he didn't win and wasn't entitled to.

Grow up!

In a democracy one must win votes. Nader, Barr, Kerry, Bush, Gore, McCain, etc., are only entitled to those votes that are actually cast for them.

[4lbs]

44. Nader himself admits indirectly that Gore would have won Florida had he not entered the race

In Nader's book, "Crashing the Party", there is this line:

"In the year 2000, exit polls reported that 25% of my voters would have voted for Bush, 38% would have voted for Gore and the rest would not have voted at all."

Ok, then. That means Gore would have gotten 13% more of Nader's voters in Florida in 2000 than Bush.

How many votes did Nader receive in Florida? 97,421.

What is 13% of 97,421? 12,664. Thus, Gore would have received at least 12,000 more "Nader votes" than Bush had Nader not entered the 2000 race.

THIS IS BY NADER'S OWN ADMISSION USING HIS EXIT POLLING DATA.

How many votes did Gore lose by? 527.

Gore would have won Florida had Nader not been there.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. Nader also cost Gore New Hampshire's electoral votes which would've put him over the top

[Better Believe It]

41. Didn't Gore Try to win over Nader's supporters In New Hampshire?

And if Gore failed to convince enough voters, who do you blame for that?

Nader?

[Hippo_Tron]

42. I blame Nader for spreading the horseshit that there's no difference between Bush and Gore

Just as I blame Bush for spreading lies about John Kerry. Ralph Nader is a despicable human being who tells lies about his opponents to get votes.

[Better Believe It]

47. That's Horseshit All Right: Nader Never Said That

[Better Believe It]

33. Gore is not president in large part because of Joseph Leiberman

and the Supreme Court and a weak campaign against Bush, etc., etc., See the movie "Recount"

[Democat]

49. Nader is an egomaniac loser!

Ralph Nader will never live down what he did in 2000.

He gave us Bush.

Screw Nader!

[krawhitham]

22. add 2 people and have a 3 hour debate

no thanks.

[AllieB]

29. Gonzalez showed bad judgement running with Nader.

I have seen Gonzalez interviewed and I don't think he's a bad guy. Nader has gone off the deep end in the last eight years or so. Ralph Nader is older than McCain so maybe it's a form of senility. He was a great progressive leader at one time, but now he runs just out of ego. His message has become irrelevant because of the delivery. Nader should have stuck with consumer issues.

[Arkana]

32. Go the fuck away, Ralph. No one cares about you or your inflated ego.

[tekisui]

35. NADER SPAM!

[tekisui]

34. You are a one-note Naderite.

We get it. Take it to a receptive audience, we are voting Democrat here.

[Better Believe It]

37. Socialists Are Responsible For Gore's "Losing" Florida in 2000!

According to the last vote count permitted in Florida, Al Gore "lost" by 537 votes to George W. Bush.

And the socialists are responsible for this!

Here's why.

Because voters cast 2,988 votes for three different socialist candidates running for President that were on the Florida ballot and Gore only "lost" by 537 votes. Al Gore was clearly entitled to those votes.

The socialist candidates and their votes were:

Harris 562
McReynolds 622
Moorehead 1,804

Total 2,988

If the three socialist candidates hadn't spoiled the election those voters would have voted for Gore!

Al Gore was entitled to and would have gotten those 2,988 votes had socialists not been on the Florida ballot.

The above "logic" makes just as much sense as blaming Ralph Nader for Al Gore "losing" the election to George W. Bush.

Blame the fricken socialists everyone who didn't vote or who voted for 3rd party candidates in the 2000 presidential election.

But, don't blame the 250,000 Florida registered Democrats who voted for Bush. They had nothing to do with the outcome. It was Nader and those pesky socialists!

And don't blame voting fraud, the Florida Republican party, Joseph Leiberman (Gore's right-wing Republican running mate) or the Supreme Court for Bush's theft of the 2000 election. Let them off the hook.

[anonymous171]

38. As long as Barr is allowed along with Nader, I'd be fine with it.

[LWolf]

40. Good idea. I'd love to see it. nt

[RepublicanElephant]

43. hey ralph, how would you get anything done in congress...

...seeing that you don't have a party to push through legislation?

oh that's right...

you have no intention of winning the white house.

you just want to spoil another election and maybe get a few gop bucks on the side.

geez.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

45. World to Nader: Thanks for Chimpy, asshole.

Crawl into a cave and blow your fucking brains out if you can find a peashooter.

[Better Believe It]

51. Here's The Guy You Need To Thank For Bush's 2000 Election Theft

Leiberman .... that's who!

He's back in Florida doing his dirty work once again.

[Joe Bacon]

46. Crawl into a Corvair and smack into a wall, Ralph!

You gave us Bush, Ralph. Go away.