A note to people disgusted with DLC policies who are thinking of sitting it out or going 3rd party

[eridani]

What we have here is a pipeline problem, and I and plenty of other left wing Baby Boomers are in large part responsible for it. The pipeline problem is this. We do have people like Kucinich, Sanders, Feingold, Wellstone, et al. on the national stage talking sense about the 30 year assault of the right wing on the economic lives of 90% of the population, but why so few others?

The reason is that too many of us gave up on electoral politics in the 70s in favor of hoping that a revolution of some sort would come from the streets. In that same time frame Kucinich made his first run at a city council position as a 19 year old, and Sanders started running for city council positions in Burlingame. They lost a few before they started winning. All to few other leftists/progressives did likewise. We took the New Deal policies that we had grown up with for granted and hoped for (but did not work for) more. The DLC subsequently gained a lot of influence because we weren't providing the Democratic Party with any alternatives.

The other thing happening in the 70s was that various conservative groups (including GOPAC) started mobilizing right wing culture warriors to run for school boards and city councils, teaching them how to campaign, etc. And they didn't give up on electoral politics no matter how often the Repub haves and have mores failed to promote their culture issues.

In the 80s and 90s, Repubs out-fundraised Dems not only in the large donation category but in every single category, even the $5-$25 one. The result is that the winger whackjob Left Behindfans have seen Caribou Barbie, really and truly one of their own (as opposed to Bush who only faked it--he's strictly for the haves and have mores) elevated to candidacy for vice-president on a ticket whose presidential candidate is a sick old man. She is the highest level GOPAC success story yet.

Now, crippled by Buckley v. Valeo, media deregulation, and courts riddled with as many conservative crazies as five Repub administrations could appoint, groups like Camp Wellstone and Progressive Majority are trying to make up for 30 years of lost time in training novice candidates. Dean has reactivated state party organizations that were dormant for years, and we now have a decent national voter database (though the Repubs are still years ahead of us on that).

But guess what? All that effort was not enough to stop the bailout blackmail, as well as countless other instances of appalling legislation. I hate that with a passion, but this is no time to give up on the rejuvenation of progressive electoral politics. The thing about blackmail is that the blackmailers have to have a credible threat to make it work. And, just as they really were able to punish Kucinich in 1979 (and make Cleveland hurt a hell of a lot) for refusing to sell off public power, they really can punish us for not going along with their thuggery.

Everything that is wrong with our situation right now is going to take a lot of time and effort to fix, and that will not happen if progressives desert electoral politics. And no, third parties that don't even have local voterfiles and a few Precinct Committee Officers are not actually engaged in it. Nader pops up like a groundhog every four years to say "Everything sucks. I'm not playing and you shouldn't either." No other third paries are currently doing anything very different.

Staying active in the Democratic Party is way outside of my personal comfort zone as a leftist geeky sort without a lot of social savvy, and that's exactly why I keep doing it. I've seen many people on DU write of their experiences contacting people they don't know to bring out the vote for Democrats, and deliberately going outside of our personal comfort zones is what we must all continue to do. I am not going to go back to hanging out mainly with people I already agree with and playing "ain't it awful."

FDR ran on a balanced budget platform, of all things. He was pushed into the New Deal from below. Can we do as much in a similar situation? YES WE CAN!!

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Wemust make sure that the next person in the White House is not another repuke.

Get Obama in the White House and then we can fight for the things we think he must do...even if he did not talk about them during the campaign.
It is better to fight the battle from the inside than from the outside. We might even have a filibuster proof Congress if things go really well...

AND..MOST IMPORTANT>>A DEMOCRAT WILL DETERMINE THE NEXT COUPLE OF SUPREME COURT JUSTICES...

[SwampG8r]

2. arent the ones sitting out the DLC ratbastards we just ousted?

i know biden once was DLC but i kind of remember the dlc folks were the ones making threats to sit out

[eridani]

3. This year? Not sure what you are talking about n/t

[chicagoexpat]

4. Let'em. The're on the wrong side of history & will regret it the rest of their lives, if

they actually have a conscience.

Sitting it out or going for some 3rd part idiot in THIS election puts u on the side of the Klan, plain & simple

[Runcible Spoon]

6. are you fucking kidding me?!

wow, just wow. I want to get a Dem in the white house too, but people are free to vote third party and that has fuck-all to do with the Klan. That has to be the shittiest excuse for a straw man I have EVER seen.

[chicagoexpat]

7. Might as well vote for the klan, it has the same effect

[Runcible Spoon]

8. you can't berate and guilt trip people into voting the way you want them to.

You might scream and cry and wring your hands and shout until you're blue in the face, and you might get someone to tell you your face that they will vote the way you say they are "supposed" to...but in the end, people are ALL ALONE in the booth.

Your specious arguments just inflame third-party sympathetic voters, and these are the ones we need. Democracy is NOT about the obligation to vote for any specific party, it is the freedom to use your vote to speak your voice. In theory, anyway.

It actually doesn't matter how much stupid shit you post on DU; it's hubris to think DU will significantly affect any large numbers of swing voters. But I will tell you this, you better adjust your nanny attitude when talking "in real life" with swing voters, or it will be YOU sending them to vote McCain, or vote Klan as you put it :eyes:

[barack the house]

15. I don't feel the poster is guilt tripping anyone it's just the logical reality of ever seeing a>

prgressive government. Anyone can reject or accept his theory but for me it makes complete sense. A third party is not going to get us anywhere as fast as an already developed party. The remainder third parties deal in a lot of cyncism too which isn't constructive in itself. It is a unshakable optimism that will get us out the other side.

Barack Obama " The road will be long our journey difficult."

[Runcible Spoon]

17. yeah the road will be fucking long and the journey difficult

because our leaders keep capitulating on Repuke agendas over and over and over and over. I can totally see why people want to vote third party for someone who actually represents their interests, I really can. The fact that third parties aren't viable is a problem with the SYSTEM, not with the people who support them. Now, I'm a Democrat, but I'm not going to run around calling anyone who votes third party a clan sympathizer. That's just fucking stupid.

[chicagoexpat]

20. & u can walk that road w/ people who are allies on issues r u can walk it w/ the Klan, ur choice

[Runcible Spoon]

21. you need to get rid of your fucking stupid straw man.

you have more in common with the Klan than I do. Fucking idiotic.

[chicagoexpat]

34. Ur Klan allies aren't made of straw, they're standing right beside u

[Hutzpa]

26. Excuse me, but you do not sound

like a Democrat, stop deceiving yourself, for your information...
you not sound like a Democrat or think like one.

Just go back and read your post.

[Runcible Spoon]

27. our Democrats don't sound like Democrats lately.

I'm not the one with a fucking Kool-aid addiction. :eyes:

Ciao.

[Hutzpa]

28. The fact you used that terminology

exposes you, Kool-aid is a term the Republicans used on
Obama supporters, now, if YOU were a Democrats you would
understand exactly what is going on as oppose to creating
unnecessary noise about the DLC who have been somewhat
responsible for most of the caving Democrats did to Republicans.

You seem to be happy with that method of governing, being owned
by the Republicans, basically selling us out whenever the
opportunity arises, that the trait you're displaying.

[Runcible Spoon]

32. no, if you had any grasp of reading comprehension...

you would see I am VERY FUCKING UNHAPPY with governing by BOTH PARTIES. I am a Democrat. Accusing me of being a Repuke is against forum rules, not to mention rhetorically shallow and lazy. I have shouted against corporate ownership all over these boards and in real life, and for some half wit dumb shit to accuse me of loving corporate greed is just ridiculous.

BTW, Kool-Aid drinking can be applied to just about fucking anything. Bravo for your fierce investigative skeelz; I've really been a covert repuke OP and haven't been caught since I joined in 2002. :eyes:

[Hutzpa]

35. half wit dumb shit...eh!!

grasp of reading comprehension,

bravo! :applause:

Your display of ignorance is duly noted.

You sure do sounded like a misguided missile, just reading your post
makes me wonder why are you still here? with all these anger you're
generating, what I would do is to remove myself from here if I can't
see the objective, but, I don't think you have it in you to do that.

This is from your post;

VERY FUCKING UNHAPPY with governing by
BOTH PARTIES. I am a Democrat.

YOU a Democrat :wow:

Thats the mark of a selfish, pathetic human being who sees everything
not like them as EVIL, you need a time out from DU, maybe with your
DLC buddies, because all I see from you is disruption.

CHANGE IS COMING, BETTER GET USED TO IT!

[Runcible Spoon]

36. MY DLC buddies?

I'm sorry, are you fucking brain damaged? wow.

[Runcible Spoon]

5. umm,,,,Wellstone is dead.

tragically that leaves about 4 real progressive Democrats in the party. :sigh: Pushing change from below is going to be extremely hard. Only harge scale civil disobedience and protest is going to change anything.

[eridani]

10. There are more. I mentioned Wellstone because of Wellstone Action

That is a campaign training school founded by his sons in memory of their parents and sister. Progressives desperately need organizations like this. They have three tracks--one for working on campaigns, one for being a candidate and a third for issue organizing.

[barack the house]

16. I feel your pain pal but you keep that optimism going strong it is the antidote to what we have now.

[eridani]

29. No alternative. It's like being in a plane with failing engines

The crew alwasys stays calm and runs through every corrective drill that was in their training. And the plane lands safely, or it doesn't. Either way, they have done their professional best. We have no alternative but to do likewise and hope for the best.

[No Elephants]

9. Voters are way too apathetic. These days, it also seems that posting often replaces taking

action IRL.

[eridani]

11. Highly alienated judging by my canvassing experience

It's true that the trashing of the New Deal has resulted in government doing way less for ordinary people. Belief that people should BE the government is way down as a result. Part of our task is recreating a citizen culture to replace (or at least get as strong as) the "taxpayer" and "consumer" culture.

[Runcible Spoon]

18. why SHOULD voters care, I mean really?

there was an overwhelming response to the bailout. Beltway chummery won out anyway, and what did we get? More pork.

Optimism won't get shit at this point. You know what will get people politically active? When they are hungry, homeless, and angry. I doubt politicians will want to see what that looks like....

[magdalena]

12. I am working for and supporting Obama this November

because he inspires me and genuinely fills me with a great deal of hope for the future of this country.

However, if for some reason he does not get elected and in 2012 we end up with a DLC fuck as nominee, be it HRC, Edwards, Kerry, Gore...any one of them - I will certainly be supporting an independent or third whose political philosophy is more aligned to mine and will probably be done with the democratic party (unless they produce more Feingolds, Kucinichs, Boxers). I am a progressive and the past two elections I feel my vote has been hijacked because the democratic nominees were the only viable option to keep Shrubs from getting elected. I become more and more cynical of the DINOs and the DLC, I feel like they are merely repugs that have infiltrated our party and turned it into "repug-lite".

I want to vote for someone who is not afraid to fight for the politically "unacceptable" issues like medical marijuana, gay marriage, euthanasia, etc etc etc. No one votes for progressive third parties because most people are unaware of their existence. Those of us that are aware feel like we cannot support them or we will suffer the "dire consequence" of having a repuke in office. Lack of our support perpetuates the public ignorance of the other options available to them. This country has stagnated and is now crumbling. If Obama can't win this election and get things back on the right (read:left) track, its going to be high time I start supporting those that I feel will.

[eridani]

13. Obama tilts very heavily to DLC on a lot of issues himself

I'm not supporting him because of his stand on issues (way too conservative for my tastes), but because he is one hell of an organizer. And that organization, which has included working very effectively with state Democratic parties, is the key to getting more progressives moving through the pipeline. Only when that happens can progressive candidates mount effective primary campaigns against DINOs.

The reason people don't know about progressive third parties is that none of those parties ever make serious efforts to talk to people other than themselves. It costs $35 dollars to get an elections department voter registration list for one state legislative district in my state. With that, and a couple of volunteers who know something about building a voter ID database of likely supporters, a third party candidate could build a reliable list of connections that could be used from year to year. Not a single third party candidate I personally know of has ever done that. They don't care about where precinct boundaries are or finding people to be at least nominal Precinct Committee Officers. This is not an impossible task. Milwaukee's last SOCIALIST mayor left office in 1961, ferchrissakes!

I despise Palin, but she is where she is today because she wasn't too stuck up to run for PTA as her first elected office when GOPAC advised her to do that. For some reason, progressive third party people seem to be. Street cred in actual governance (however local) and demonstrated competence at organizing are the only way we are going to get candidates with national streed cred.

[Runcible Spoon]

19. I hate to break it to you, but Obama is no better than the other DLC fucks on the vast majority of

issues. :evilfrown:

[magdalena]

33. I do realize this.

I know he is more conservative than what I would typically look for in a candidate, but I admire his persona. He is intelligent, competent, and has a personality that is unusually inspiring and intoxicating to many people. I personally feel that it is "OK" to compromise voting on issues alone this election. Part of the reason I am supporting him is because he is a black man. I think it would be beneficial to get past our country's history of only having white males elected to the presidency...to set a new high water mark so we can begin to evolve beyond that. Even though I do not care much for HRC, if she were our candidate I probably would have voted for her for the same reason. And of course I feel they are both better than the alternatives this year.

[barack the house]

14. Exactly the jounrney has just begun it will be bumpy but with determination this will get done. >

We've got to focus to what is a 30 year cause to repair a very broken system. If it fails to be repaired it is only our negligence that is the cause. Keep our eyes on the prize we are getting places just the successes go ungung. First we get through the door then we begin to purge the dead wood and plant new trees, but the fastest route to a progressive healthy congress is through the Democratic party.

[chicagoexpat]

22. Meet ur allies in the fight, burniing a light for u to see along the way

[RepublicanElephant]

23. i've felt this way for a long time.

why can't progressives take over the dem party like the neo-cons took over the gop?

you sure can't do that by voting for third parties!

i posted a little rant the other day about good progressive like amy goodman spending too much time on nader and mckinney... while more than implying that there's no difference between dems and repubs.

kucininch had to remind a democracy now! correspondent in denver that we need to FIX the democratic party, not tear it down.

the sad reality is that we have a national two-party system. i wish we had a parliamentary system, where third-, fourth-, fifth-, even sixth-party legislators would have a realistic chance of developing national public policy.

until then, the democratic party is the best, most REALISTIC hope we progessives have!

[eridani]

30. I've come to that conclusion after being an independend leftist for most of my life

I changed in 2004, when I saw the difference between what Kucinich asked of me that year and what Nader asked of me in 2000. In 2000, Nader asked me to campaign to get him into the presidential debates. In 2004, Kucinich asked me to join my local party organization and talk to my neighbors. That changed everything, and I've since become one of those yellow dog party loyalists. At least in general elections. In primaries I'm often in feral cat mode.

[Jennicut]

24. 3rd party = helping Repthugs Sorry but it is true

Most important lesson of 2000 besides the fact that Rethugs steal elections is that Al Gore would be about the same as George Bush. What utter nonsense. Obama is far more progressive and far better then McLoser will ever dream of being. McLoser thinks that government has no role. Obama thinks it plays a vital role.

[liskddksil]

25. Obama 2008

But in 2010 in we throw out all the DINOS in safe districts, with primary challenges.

[eridani]

31. Provided we get more progressives into the pipeline holding local offices n/t