I'm going to whore out some John Stuart Mill again:

[jpgray]

The worst (personal attack) which can be committed by a polemic, is to stigmatize those who hold the contrary opinion as bad and immoral men. To calumny of this sort, those who hold any unpopular opinion are peculiarly exposed, because they are in general few and uninfluential, and nobody but themselves feels much interested in seeing justice done them;

...

Unmeasured vituperation employed on the side of the prevailing opinion really does deter people from professing contrary opinions, and from listening to those who profess them. For the interest, therefore, of truth and justice, it is far more important to restrain this employment of vituperative language than the other;

We should respect the outrage of GLBT folks concerning the cowardice of our leaders on gay marriage. We should sympathize with their struggle to earn their fundamental rights. Above all we should recognize the justice of their cause and promote it to the fullest extent of our abilities.

They have faced a tidal wave of bigotry from the "prevailing opinion" of this nation for as long as it has existed. They have -earned- the right to be pissed off. Criticizing or belittling that outrage seems to me just about the worst possible use of a progressive's time.

Support and understanding for this outrage has nothing to do with renouncing or trashing Obama/Biden. On the contrary it has everything to do with promoting their victory. If that victory should occur, however, we need to stand together to demand courage from our president to do what is right. The act of putting off justice for the sake of political expediency should outrage any true progressive.

[JeffR]

1. K & R

Best post on the topic all day.

[jpgray]

8. Thanks

I thought combining JSM with the word "whore" would get attention, but as you can see I'm pathetically self-kicking my thread via replies. :dunce:

[JeffR]

9. Might work.

Deserves the kicks.

[Phredicles]

2. Before there was Jon Stewart, there was John Stuart Mill;

he wasn't nearly as funny, but he was a great man. And this is a good example why - excellent post.

[jpgray]

7. So far ahead of his time he's still looking back on ours

Which is exhilarating and depressing all at once. :P

[PeaceNikki]

3. K&R and I will quote the fine junior Senator from Wisconsin:

(on gay marriage and the amendment to ban same-sex marriage in WI)

"Gay and lesbian people in our country are fighting a mean-spirited movement to harm them and to discriminate against them, I stand with them against that movement, and I’m proud to stand with them."

[jpgray]

6. Feingold kicks ass.

:patriot:

[liberalmuse]

4. Why should gays have any allegience...

to anyone who wouldn't acknowledge that they had the same rights as everyone else? They, and anyone else capable of introspection knows you don't really choose who you are attracted to. I do believe that Obama and Biden are capable of evolving. McCain and Palin? Not so much.

[jpgray]

5. Because of the sucky binary exclusivity of our system, and the enormous power of the executive

Horrible answers? Don't we all know it. I can completely understand if you disagree with me on this, but my philosophy in going to the voting booth will be to do the least harm possible. In this election, that means voting Obama/Biden. They're the best chance, as I see it, to gain -any- ground on a score of important issues. This even includes the baby-step forward they would represent in promoting civil rights.

[GeorgeGist]

10. There is the other side ...

which you conveniently neglect for political gain; capitulation to the "prevailing opinion" is equally outrageous.

[jpgray]

11. I fully agree--sorry if that wasn't clear

The whole point Mill is making there is that, in the interest of truth and justice, outrage and frustration is far more understandable coming from those pushing -against- the prevailing opinion. Outraged polemics are on the contrary -far- less justified when coming from the prevailing opinion. That's why I wish DUers would support and sympathize with the frustration of GLBT DUers on this issue.

[kath]

12. My favorite John Stuart Mill quote is this one:

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."

[jpgray]

13. :-D

It's always befuddling to me how any reasonable person could condone a backward-looking, anti-progress ideology.

[terrya]

14. Thank you, jpgray. Recommended.

What John Stuart Mill wrote then and what you wrote now is thought provoking and timely. Thank you.

[jpgray]

15. Shouting down the outrage coming from victims of bigotry just isn't something I want to see on DU

Especially if it's supposedly for reasons of political expediency. We don't need to bully or harangue anyone on this board to vote Obama/Biden, or shout down any and all criticism--virtually everyone is on-board with the ticket! I swear, people sometimes treat this board as though DUers would reject Obama should any criticism of his policies not be met with constant hypersensitivity and insult-slinging activism. That's just not the case--valid criticism of the ticket's policies (gay marriage!) should be supported as fully as possible. People need to realize that such critiques aren't some sort of Obama-destroying insurrection which needs to be stomped out, but are instead fully justified frustrations that deserve our sympathy and fullest support.

Thanks for your wonderful thread on this, by the way! :hi:

[terrya]

16. Kick

Because:

1) This is an excellent post

2) I wanted to kick it

3) It's a absolute delight to see jpgray posting here after a too long absence.