FYI for GLBT community

[IndianaJones]

there are a few of us that feel bad about the way you are treated by our party.

the "wait it out and things will change" line

the "there are more important issues now" line

the "you are not winning people to your cause" line

i'm straight...i'm married. so I don't really understand what it is like to be denied basic rights in that regard. I think we will look back on this period in our history and be embarrassed.

Obama/Biden are much better on this issue than McCain/Palin. Thats not good enough, and I don't blame gays for being angry. Our party is lucky to have you on our side, despite relegating you to a second class status.

[jonnyblitz]

1. I have always noticed your posts on this issue, often times you

have been the first to bring things up or point things out in a thread. yup, I notice and appreciate. :hi:

I also *get* your snark when others take you literally.

[teenagebambam]

2. Thanks, Indy

I usually don't feel the sting of second-class citizenship on a daily basis, but today for some reason....well, not for "some" reason, it was because of a few threads congratulating the Obamas on their sixteenth anniversary, and well, I've been "married" for sixteen years too, only not REALLY married because I'm not "allowed" to call it that....anyway, thanks.

[goodgd_yall]

3. Thanks, Indiana

I appreciate you not buying into the usual "lines" we're given.

And I agree---decades from now, the people minimizing our concerns will look like ignorant fucks.

[racaulk]

4. Thank you, IJ.

I truly wish everyone in our little online community were as empathetic and supportive as you are. :pals:

[justiceischeap]

5. As a member of the gay community I'd also like to point this out:

Senator Joe Biden to make featured remarks at the Human Rights Campaign National Dinner this Saturday

http://www.hrcnationaldinner.org/

For someone who doesn't care about the gay community he has a funny way of showing it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. thank you. i hate the straight condescension and dismissal of our concerns

:loveya:

[IndianaJones]

11. as a minority, I know exactly how that feels. nt.

[Beausoir]

7. K&R.

[JuniperLea]

8. Well said... I agree...

I'm straight too, but mostly I'm an empathetic human being.

[AlCzervik]

9. and seeing so called progressives saying it's a "Pet issue" or saying "You're selfish"

that really pisses me off. the Constitution should not be amended to take rights away from people. Gay Marriage is not a "Special right" it's an "Equal right".

[PeaceNikki]

10. Word. K&R for equal rights.

[blue_onyx]

12. Great post

I agree. As much as I know that politicians have to be against "gay marriage" for politic reasons, it still bothers me. It helps if they reach out to gay voters, maybe going to rallies or events meant to support gay rights. I hope Obama will do things to help the gay community (other than appointing progressive judges) but I'm worried he may not, out of fear it may hurt him when he runs for re-election in 2012.

[enigmatic]

13. yep

:thumbsup:

[unfrigginreal]

14. Second class my ass

The only party that has taken up for LGBT issues is the Democrats. It's a pretty huge step for them to advocate EQUAL RIGHTS for gay relationships. Too many gays are not being practical about this at all. Reminds me of when the screws were turned on Clinton by the gay community to force a full out gays in the military option. It was a stupid political move at that time and cost LGBT rights BIG TIME.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. so not having rights doesnt make us second class?

[unfrigginreal]

17. Um...Obama and Biden want to give you rights

is that so bad?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. whats bad and also pathetic is that apparantly you cant define second class citizen

blacks could drink water and ride the bus too.

[unfrigginreal]

22. FAIL

Blacks were segregated from the white population. You are comparing apples and oranges. You, for some reason, need a word to signify that you have equal rights. That's just nonsensical.

[yardwork]

24. Here's a news flash. Gay people are segregated, too.

Most states don't allow anything close to equal rights for gay people. I don't care what you call it, I don't have it. I can't marry my partner. I can't civil union with my partner. My state doesn't allow any of that. What part of that don't you get?

[unfrigginreal]

30. If you don't care what it's called...

then you support the Obama-Biden position. That's the whole point. They want to give you equal rights.

[yardwork]

35. I don't give a hoot what they call it. However, I don't speak for anyone but myself.

Just because I don't care if they call it marriage or not, and you don't care, doesn't mean that other people don't have the right to care.

Equal rights is equal rights. There's no reason for the government to be involved in marriage at all. Call everyone's legal unions "civil unions" and leave marriage to the churches. That will solve it.

[unfrigginreal]

37. As I said, you agree with Obama-Biden

What's the beef?

[yardwork]

47. My beef is with the way you are expressing your opinion about this.

You're using a lot of insulting terms and you're making generalizations.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. using cutesy internet words doesnt make your argument any better

seperate but equal is the essence of second class citizenship.

[Liberalboy]

43. I had to move to another country

because I couldn't get married, I couldn't get hospital visitation, I couldn't make medical decisions for my spouse; because I could be fired in my former state (at will) simply because I am homosexual, and denied housing and denied assistance. When I open a magazine, or watch a TV show it's a big deal when they mention "gay" people; we are not part of the mainstream - we are vilified and segregated for simply being who we are. From being denied entry to clubs and associations, to donating blood, to serving on the PTA, or even being a teacher, minister, or counsellor.

Please don't preach to me about apples and oranges when it comes down to it the fact that separate but equal is not equal

[Book Lover]

36. *Recognize* not "give". NEVER "give"

These are rights we are born with - no government can grant them, only can grant recognition of them.

And the dem ticket does not want to recognize the right of GLBT people to wed people of the same sex; they advocate the "separate but yet somehow still equal" civil union idea.

[yardwork]

23. It's a huge step for our party to advocate equal rights? That's pathetic.

Sorry, I don't accept your condescension.

[closeupready]

29. STFU. What do YOU know about being gay?

NOTHING. :mad:

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ieoeja]

32. You want to know what was stupid politics?

The Democratic Party *owned* the southern vote. But that LBJ just had to go and sign the Civil Rights Act. He even *knew* it was going to cost our party big time. He came right out and said it would cost us!

But it was the right fucking thing to do. And we would all be a whole hell of lot worse off today if he had not.

[IndianaJones]

33. excellent. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. ...:

:applause:

[racaulk]

39. THANK YOU!!!

:applause:

[Zuiderelle]

15. Thank you. This is the kind of response I was hoping for. Not berating, not insulting, not flaming

just understanding.

Thanks.

[MisterGamut]

19. Here's my solution

The government should get out of the "marriage" business altogether. People who go to a judge or JP or mayor or ship's captain should be joined in civil union. Period. And civil union should be available to any two people who want in regardless of seual orientation. People who go to church for their union, should be "married," and all of the rights of civil union should apply, and each church should be allowed to determine for itself who they will marry.

It's democratic. It's liberal. It's conservative. It's libertarian.

It's the perfect solution to a non-problem.

[yardwork]

20. Thanks. I appreciate it.

One would think that with the world crashing around them, some people would have better things to do than work to deny basic human rights to other people. But, so it is.

One day a lot of people will be embarrassed to admit that they voted based on issues like gay marriage.

[RedLetterRev]

21. Bless you

and my partner of 13 years and I appreciate it. Indy, it means a LOT just to hear it. More than you realize. Not to fear. I'd rather be a second-class Democrat where I'm at least noticed and courted, than a persona-non-grata repuke where they'd just take my money, my vote, and still burn a cross on my yard. Ja'know? There's a world of difference even in that much sentiment.

Right now, I'm worried (a lot) about getting the rest of our Constitution back whole again. Without that, my right to marry won't mean a whole lot. A married slave is still a slave. I want habeas back, I want an end to corporate spying, my constitutionally-guaranteed rights of assembly, dissent, a free press again... all that. And then, yes, by damn, I want the right to marry.

Ain't none of us free until we're all free.

When we've won the battle of restoring our Bill of Rights together -- and it's gonna be a beeyotch -- betcherass I'm going to be clamoring again for a full and equal share of the marriage pie. I'm stickin' my IOU in now :D

:grouphug:

[tandot]

25. I was cringing as soon as he said it yesterday.

I am straight and married. My husband saw it a little bit differently. He said that the way Biden phrased it, he (my husband) considers our marriage to be more a civil union. We had my sister-in-law deputized to marry us and we had a civil marriage ceremony, as opposed to a religious ceremony. It almost sounded like Biden wanted to tie the word "marriage" to a religious ceremony.

I wish that question wouldn't even be asked. This is one of those wedge issues used by the Republican party. I am sad that so many people are still opposed to same-sex marriage.

We live in CA and the new marriage license now state "Party A" and "Party B" instead of Bride and Groom. I am confident that Prop 8 will be defeated.

[RoadRage]

26. A straight married female here to K&R..

The GLBT community always seem to get the short end of the stick on this.. you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Obama is far better then McCain, but he's also certainly far from perfect on this issue.

[No Elephants]

27. I hate having anyone treat gays unjustly. In fact, I hate anyone treating anyone un-

justly. I will fight for equal rights for all people until I die. Our party is far from perfect, but I believe it to be so much better than the Pubs. That does not, however, mean that I do not want our party to keep striving for perfection, especially in human rights.

[closeupready]

28. For once, I appreciate your post.

:hi: I agree with you 100%. :)

[LynneSin]

38. I have to agree

Biden played the safe thing last night. Right now these debates aren't for the decided voters but all the undecideds out there. And unfortunately an answer that would be deeemed acceptable by us could end up being a campaign ad targeting conservative voters in some of these new swing states we're seeing on the map.

What Obama will do is ensure that we have fair judges on our bench because ultimately rights for gays will NOT be decided by Congress but by our judges

[foxfeet]

40. Thanks for your support, Indy.

I've been at this for 35 years now-- I was a member of the founding group of the then-Gay Liberation Front at Purdue in 1973. I've been out in all my jobs, out to my family and straight friends for many years now. I'm in a 23 year-long relationship. We got married in Oregon in 2004 (after 19 years together). My personal view is that there should be civil unions for all for the purposes of benefits and privileges extended by the government. Any who also want a religious marriage could do so as they choose. At this stage of my life those benefits would be helpful, e.g. my partner having right of survivorship for SS benefits. It steams me that Britney Spears can have a 15-minute marriage and still qualify for the more than 1000 benefits attached to marriage.
I'm so used to our concerns being thrown under the bus that it no longer surprises me. And yet, I'm confident that we will at some point be accepted as full human beings. Support from people like you is much appreciated.

[frickaline]

41. k&r

[Liberalboy]

42. Thanks IndianaJones

Sometimes the simple act of acknowledgment can make a person feel that much better. This gay man, thanks you.

[Prophet 451]

45. I've never understood this about the USA

Here (Britain), we have domestic partnerships but they carry the exact same legal rights and responsibilities as civil marriage. By and large, people don't care. Oh, there's still a few reactionary clergy and fringe bigots but the great mass of people don't give a damn unless they're personally involved. The only difference is the word and most people on street level have called it "marriage" since the beginning anyway.

We have gay people serving openly in our military. In fact, one of the very first same-sex marriages here was between two women serving in the Army. Effect on the military has been nil besides the need to build a few more married couples quarters.

On some level, I can't help wondering if this lack of basic respect is due to the gay community themselves. Oh not for "pushing too hard" but for not pushing hard enough. Gay people are trying to win their rights through lawsuits and public opinion and that's very noble, very civilised but I can't help wondering if we would have had more action if we'd seen a few riots, a million-man march, a pink triangle spraypainted on the Whitehouse gates, that kind of thing. Gay people are being very good-natured about things right now but if you don't listen to people while they're being nice, they will eventually stop being nice.

[LeftCoast]

46. Thanks...that's very nice of you to post this

It means a lot!

:yourock:

[Secret_Society]

48. Thank you