1. Most Americans are against the bailout. 2. It will most likely go forward anyway -

[gateley]

with all the key players supporting it (Obama, Biden, McCain).

How do you think this might affect the voter turnout?

My feeling is that more Democrats would stay home out of disgust and anger, than Republicans.

Please disabuse me of this notion.

[msongs]

1. what if all this speculator's reward welfare money was invested in alternative energy instead?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Green for Green.

I like it.

[pnwmom]

51. That wouldn't do anything to solve the liquidity problems. n/t

[Selatius]

2. It's a possibility, but we won't know until the new bill is presented and shown to us all.

Depending on what is in the second bill, people might be happy or very upset.

[gateley]

23. Well, to be honest, I don't think that those who are against

any bailout will find much to be happy with regardless of what's in the new bill.

And I want to say, personally, that my vote won't be affected, regardless of my feelings (which are still flip flopping!), so I hope this doesn't come across as me bitching about the bailout, because that's not my intent. Rather, just asking which side you guys think might be more angry and stay home.

[leftofcool]

3. If it goes forward, I will probably stay home

I have not made up my mind about that yet, waiting to see what happens Hubby has already switched to the Green Party, concluding that both candidates suck raw eggs

[Labors of Hercules]

8. not to be snarky...

But this response is precisely what I would expect from you.

narrow.

[leftofcool]

26. Why, because I think both candidates have sold us down the

river?

[1corona4u]

9. If you stay home, and mccain wins, you will never forgive yourself.

[leftofcool]

19. Perhaps. My vote will depend on this Bill

I may also switch parties. If I do, it will be to the Green Party.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[1corona4u]

28. ...

*ignore*

Ahh...much better.

[SIMPLYB1980]

36. Welcome to ignore. You're only the second person to go there.

[Raineyb]

59. Like you weren't always looking for an excuse not to vote for Obama. n/t

Regard

[DevonRex]

73. She made up her mind not to vote for him a long time ago. This

is all a ruse.

[DevonRex]

72. Oh yes she will. I remember her posts from here and

on other sites when people here linked to them. She'll jump for joy if he loses.

[sharp_stick]

13. If you stay home, it's over

perhaps you don't care but I personally will do anything to keep Sarah Failin from office. I dont' care if the Congressional Democrats squat down and take a shit on the floor of the house or on whatever pet project I may like I will not allow myself to be a part of another Republican administration.

AFAIC anybody that even suggests they will stay home should.... you can probably fill in the blanks, I'm done with it.

[RichGirl]

18. That really makes sense...

The bailout is bad, but why not add to the suffering and put a great big McCain/Palin cherry on top! I really wish extremists would think about what "message" they sent in voting for Nader in 2000. In retrospect that message was "I'm stupid!"

[Justyce]

22. You must not have children or you would care more about

what this election means for their future. Well, I do have a child, and common sense dictates that any Dem is better than any Repub, especially on issues relating to the economy and war, so I would ask that you please re-think your decision. The stakes are far too high.

[blondeatlast]

44. Word, word, word. My son can't face a future with McCain.

We already may have to move out of the country for my husband's job. If McCain wins, we are gone and probably not coming back.

I don't want to go, but it's my kid above all.

[maseman]

38. If you stay home then you shouldn't comment about politics on DU

[Democat]

58. Forget the economy and think about the Supreme Court and war!

Do you want people dying in a war in Iran? Do you want a right wing Supreme Court for the rest of your life?

There are more important things in life than money.

[TexasObserver]

67. That'll show McCain, won't it?

Are you insane?

[Forkboy]

70. There's a shocker.

[Curtland1015]

4. Make no mistake, Obama is going to get attacked on this either way.

If the bill passes it will be "Obama is stealing your money!"... if it fails it will be "Obama showed no leadership and caused the bill to fail!"

I'm 100% positive that the Repigs already have both ads made and waiting to go. The only sticking point I see is if Obama votes yes and McCain votes no. Then he'd have a point to pounce on.

[gateley]

15. Yes -- they'll both (and Biden) get attacked either way.

It's not the ads I'm worried about. I'm thinking of the people who have already made up their minds to vote for Obama or McCain.

This issue created a citizen uproar the likes of which we haven't seen previously. If this passes, many people will feel we have been 'let down', or that our leaders 'sold us out' or 'the little guy is taking the beating for the big guy again'. Whatever their reasons against this, Reps and Dems, for some reason I just get the feeling that we, more than they, would be more angry and therefore might just refuse to go vote.

Personal disclaimer: I'm STILL flip flopping on it, but am pretty much resigned that something will pass soon. This won't affect my vote.

And you bring up a fascinating scenario -- what if Obama votes 'yes' and McCain votes 'no'. I hadn't even thought of that...

[sharp_stick]

20. Dupe delete sorry

dupe

[sharp_stick]

21. Well being as the Democrats

have said probably 10,000 times now that unless McCain votes for the package it won't pass I'm thinking that if McCain votes no the package will fail.

[sharp_stick]

17. Of course they have

what would you expect? Obama is also probably ready for whatever McLame does with this, it's not some little Rovian trick it's plain old American politics and it's the same every four years.

[glowing]

37. They already did, when they thought the bill would pass, the RNC had the attack

ad up and going on Monday.. Then it was a NO-Go, and it was obvious they were going to attack any way they felt they needed to..

Sorry, but McCain looks like the biggest chump in all this mess.. suspending the campaign, then surrogates and himself taking credit for leading the bill thru.. then, it didn't go because of his piggies.. so, exactly how is he to lead when his own party doesn't listen to him?

[Epiphany4z]

5. who knows but I wouldn't sit home

if we hand them 700 billion, I want Obama to be leading on this. If McCain gets in the money will just poof disappear no hearings will be held, subpoenas will be ignored, no regulations will be changed and it will just be as ugly as it can get.

[1corona4u]

6. Most americans are not against it anymore.

Every poll I have heard about in recent days suggest that people are starting to get it. I was watching Prime News yesterday, and they were taking calls. The interesting thing was, that those who called in against the bill, had boiled it down to it NOT affecting them, and that congress should not do it. The expert they had on there spent a great deal of time letting people know that it WILL have an affect on all of us if something is not done.

I had a Forbes article that had the actual number at 46 against, and 45 for, IIRC. So half of the people are ok with it. No one wants it really, but something must be done.

Do I think this will hurt Obama? No.

Oh, and I have not seen the new version though, so not sure what changed in it.

[leftofcool]

10. This new bill is a repuke bill and if Obama votes for it,

it will hurt him in the long run.

[1corona4u]

12. I don't agree with you.

I don't think people are going to stay home and not vote. We have a better chance at cleaning upo DC with Obama, and I will not stay home and allow mccain to win, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would.

[leftofcool]

16. Everyone in my family has switched to the Independent Party

except me. They did that after Obama voted for the FISA Bill. Hubby switched to the Green Party, along with almost all of his co-workers, except for the ones wheo were already repukes. Of course, our votes won't make a damn bit of difference since we live in a mostly blue state anyway. I think lots of Dems are just disgusted.

[1corona4u]

25. Every vote should count. I'm not wasting mine.

I'm and Independent, and I'm voting for Obama.

[blondeatlast]

46. Love that deep caring felling you have for the future. I like the Greens on a local level; but this

is the WORLD.

[RichGirl]

29. Yes...it will hurt him BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU!

With a McCain presidency the whole country will be hurt by PEOPLE LIKE YOU!

Why not just ask yourself, what do I gain by not voting or voting for Nader? By voting for Obama I gain a good possibility that things will change. A vote for Nader will gain ZERO, NOTHING ZILCH. He lost all his respect and influence by putting ego above country. If he loses it for Obama he will be the asshole of the world.

[SIMPLYB1980]

7. If they stay home becasue of this we deserve to lose.

I don't think my fellow Democrats are that stupid, but I've been wrong before.

[Silent3]

34. "We" don't deserve any such thing.

I'm not into collective punishment or collective blame. If I have to suffer a McCain presidency, and God forbid a Palin presidency, there's no way *I* deserve that, nor most of us at DU who would suffer for the stupidity of others.

Fortunately the odds of an Obama win look great right now, no matter what happens with the bailout bill.

[RichGirl]

41. What kills me is that they are almost as proud of their ignorance as the freepers.

With a sinking ship, most of us try to jump into a life boat, as imperfect as it might be. But the Nader people proudly grab the anchor!

Just to be fair, I don't think they are stupid. It would be easier to deal with if they were. They are very smart, but get so caught up in being "right" that they don't see what is best.

[SIMPLYB1980]

45. That's basically how I see it to.

In the real world sometimes you have to give up a little of your Idealism in order to make anything work. Bless DK for his spirit, but that is why he will never be President. He can't do that.

[RichGirl]

11. A week in politics is like a month.

Hopefully by election day the economy will be more stable and the Michael Moores will quiet down. No democrat with half a brain is going to want to follow the bailout with a McCain/Palin administration. If they do, I think they were always more about their own ego than in doing what's best for the country.

[RichGirl]

14. Also...

I think there are more on the extreme right that hate this bill (they see it as socialism) than the extreme left. That group was never crazy about McCain and are getting very discouraged now, so I think they would be more likely to stay home. I truly believe that the extreme left is a lot smaller and will see that we can't throw the baby out with the bath water. I hope they don't prove me wrong.

[gateley]

39. Well what actually brought this up for me was a conversation I had with my

landlord last night. Definitely going to vote for McC/P, although he would have must preferred Romney to be the nominee.

He (landlord) doesn't feel we should 'bail them out' and agrees that the Dems are gunning for socialism.

But I have no doubt in my mind that he'll go to the polls and cast his vote in November, regardless of how unhappy he is with this bill's passage.

I'm grabbing courage from your words that not that many of us will throw out that baby with the bath water.

[gateley]

33. You're right - regardless of the initial reaction, there will be time to

digest it and take the focus off of ego/sense of betrayal and turn it toward what's best for our country. Thanks for the encouragement.

[cali]

30. Opinion is not a static thing

already there's been a shift in opinion on this. And btw, from what I've seen on blogs, repukes are far more disgusted and angry over this than dems.

[gateley]

40. You're right -- another good dose of reality. Thanks. nt

[SurfingAtWork]

31. I'm waiting until the votes are cast until I go with McCain's supporting it

I think he is going to vote against it and it will suprise everyone. This is too big a potential political gimmic for him to pass up. Espescially if his vote is inconsequential, because it passes by a large margin.

[fugop]

35. I don't know how he can

He's been pushing for the bill - he even pushed for the House one. He backs out now and it just makes him look even MORE undependable and erratic (which is almost unthinkable at this point). I think again it would make him look like a completely ineffectual leader. Perhaps more so, since he actually, you know, is part of the Senate, vs. his posturing with the House.

[gateley]

42. Another DUer upthread mentioned that possibility -- something that

I hadn't even considered.

Thankfully, I'm not on Obama's team, bedause they are smart and consider ALL the possibilities.

[LanternWaste]

32. Within my circle of progressive friends...

Within my circle of progressive friends who are against the pending bill, their excitement for Obama far outweighs their frustration of the bill.

[gateley]

43. Excellent. That's what I want to hear. And what I'll focus on.

I just succumbed to a blip of doubt and unease -- :banghead:.

[blondeatlast]

47. As I told my 'frustrated with the bill' husband--who do you want in charge of oversight?

That's what it comes down to, and he agreed that it could (and likely will) be retooled after January either way. He'd rather have Obama overseeing the fix.

[RichGirl]

49. I think that's the case with most of us.

In fact, in a recent poll of how the public rated Obama, McCain, Rep congress, Dem congress, Bush, Paulson on the bailout...Obama was the ONLY ONE whose approval was higher than disapproval. I don't know how, but he always seems to rise above the fray. Even with all the craziness, he seems to be the voice of reason.

[Curtland1015]

52. It's because he's the only one out of the whole bunch that doesn't sound like he's panicking.

That's my opinion on it anyway...

[LanternWaste]

61. I think that's the reason right there

"Even with all the craziness, he seems to be the voice of reason."

I think that's the reason right there. Sen. Obama appears to be the *only* U.S. politician that instills a sense of hope in the larger segment of the American populace... something that's been missing for a long, long time.

And even as objective as I try to stay when it comes to politics and politicians, I find even myself becoming hopeful and even (on a few occasions) lifted when the good Senator rouses himself..

When he spoke in Berlin some weeks ago, I actually found myself emotionally inspired by a public speaker. And that was indeed a first for me. :)

All this coming from a strong supporter of Sen. Clinton during the primaries. I think we made the right choice. :thumbsup:

[suston96]

48. Most Americans don't know what the bailout - rescue - is about.........nt

[Curtland1015]

50. This. Very much this.

Quite a few of the people I talked to have no clue what it entails. Many are against it, but don't know why. Some are for it, because they see it as something that needs to be done, but still don't know why.

Either way, even if it's an immensely helpful bill, calling it a "bail out" was a bad idea.

[MyNameGoesHere]

53. As a democrat i think we should pay corporations to help out people.

It has always worked in the past because we know how altruistic corporations are. So please lets give them more money than 700 billion because as democrats in the end we know that corporations will not be tempted by corruption or greed.

[Overseas]

54. Democrats aren't dumb enough to give up the Supreme Court because of it.

We can rebuild the economy through progressive taxation and other measures to make things trickle UP instead of the Republican way.

But the Supreme Court appointments last a lifetime and we don't want more right wing corporatists in those roles.

[1corona4u]

56. Isn't that the truth...

[tekisui]

55. Obama has carefully explained himself on this.

He is becoming the opinion leader of the party. And, to lead he must have people follow. I think that his explanation is satisfactory. People are upset, but once they understand that something has to be done, and even a bad bill is better than no bill, I think they will accept it.

People were also pissed about the FISA vote, they got over it, and like that vote, they are trusting that President Obama will work his ass off to clean up the flawed bits of legislation.

[groovedaddy]

65. The FISA vote covered a whole different demographic...the opposition to the bailout

is much broader and deeper.
That something needs to be done...how do you prove that? Because "experts" say so? There are other experts saying that the bailout could have many negative effects.

[tekisui]

68. It will have negative effects, for sure.

Inflation, being the most obvious.

It has an inertia, now. I don't think something needs to be done immediately. But, it's heading that way.

[Yellow Horse]

57. Um, folks, Nader is not running as the Green Party Candidate. Cynthia McKinney is.

I wish she would not have done this. But one thing I do know is that Cynthia gets it about the elections and the many ways they can be stolen. I hope Obama does too, but we hoped the same about Kerry and he just capitulated. He caved in while a few people were still standing in line and voting in Ohio. He was so afraid of looking like a "sore loser", John Kerry couldn't even wait until all the votes were even cast. Oh, oh, oh, how I hope that Obama will have the courage to fight for every vote being counted (in the horrible event he has to.)

But even if Obama caves, with Cynthia as a Green Party candidate, I am sure that in any the 24 (or whatever number it is) of states where she is on the ballot line she WILL stand up for a Recount, if need be after the election. Just like David Cobb did in Ohio in 2004.

Otherwise her Green Party candidacy is just sad because this, coupled with that very crazy incident where she hit a Capitol Police officer, will likely take Cynthia McKinney permanently off the national stage as a Congressional Candidate or other office. And Cynthia was so great, such a fearless voice in Congress. :cry:

[Hippo_Tron]

60. Completely disagree, right wing populist libertarians are far more organized than the left

Consider how much more attention Ron Paul got in the primaries than Dennis Kucinich. There will be a marginal number of voters that go from Obama to Nader because of this. There will be a slightly larger number of voters that go from McCain to Barr because of this but probably still marginal.

[chicagoexpat]

62. Please, u kiddies & the RW maggots all whined & had ur say the other day

It's time for the grown ups to get involved.

[FrenchieCat]

63. McCain's conservative base will stay home.

Good for us!

[vaberella]

64. Most people weren't against the bill. It was split 50/50, the nays were just louder.

On other factors, most people don't even understand the dynamics of the situation because the politicans aren't talking to us. All they say is, "It's not looking good and we need this to survive." But they're not giving us the details, what will happen in proper scenario if we don't give bail out. How long will we be covered with bail out? Who are we bailing out? What is going on with the failure in the stocks....how will it directly affect you. It's now little bits of news are filtering through but our President didn't even address but give us either a 4 or 10 minute announcement of shit that he caused in the first place.

The louder people were against it, but it was a 50/50 situation and that needs to be remembered. This bill needs to pass in order for us to have money --- no credit, no money, no spending. It's a circle and we need credit in order to keep that circle functioning...you freeze it and it causes a major hiccup.


Anyway I support any bill and I'm happy majority of what Obama has fought for is in the bill and will pass.

[Political Heretic]

69. You are dead wrong. Only 28% support the bailout plan. SOURCE:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/general_business/only_28_support_federal_bailout_plan

It boggles my mind how some people can write so confidently things like "it was a 50/50 situation" and have absolutely zero evidence to support themselves at all.

[TexasObserver]

66. GOP voters are much more opposed to the bill than Democratic voters.

It WILL hurt the GOP, but I don't think it will hurt Democrats.

[Forkboy]

71. It'll only affect those who were looking for an excuse not to vote for Obama to start with.

Such as the above example in this thread.