To all of the people who opposed this because it only bailed out Wall Street.....

[RollWithIt]

I've got news for you, I'm not a member of Wall Street, I'm a small business owner. Both my 401k and my employees (that we match) just dropped a further 4.3% in less than 5 hours of trading today. My mutual fund investments are basically toast. My lines of credit (I am in retail) are scheduled to be withdrawn effective October 6th by four different creditors (I am profitable but it doesn't matter.)

So keep on cheering an economic collapse. It will be you without a job soon enough if this keeps up much longer.

[grantcart]

1. Keep hanging on many of us understand your position and have been through it

[tridim]

8. Keep hanging on to what?

The OP is saying he will have to shut his doors in a week. This will now happen all over the country to thousands of businesses both large and small.

The house GOP just destroyed America.

[firedupdem]

81. Can you repost that great explanation you gave the other day as to

how this entire things works? I didn't keep it...I'm a newer DU'er and you really made me understand!

[ginnyinWI]

2. you're right.

People who oppose helping Wall St. survive are shooting themselves in the foot. Anyone with retirement investments, anyone who wants to take out a loan, anyone who wants to use credit for anything is affected.

[Medusa]

7. People don't get the impact of this

they are that ignorant, both Dem (I'm sorry to say) and GOP.

They won't be able to buy cars. They may find their credit cards cancelled. Forget about buying a house unless you have absolutely flawless credit (few do). Forget any credit for your company. Forget expansion for your company. Forget raises, bonuses and oh yeah that 401K? Gone. That's what's at stake. Face it, the Wall Street types have cash stocked away, the average American does not.

[ellacott]

3. I understand

There's no guarantee that all of our jobs can meet their payroll. It's been very frustrating hearing the all the people against it and not offering an alternative.

[RollWithIt]

9. Well, I can tell you this, if something isn't done by the middle of next week....

I'll be forced to lay off at least 6 of my salesman on the 7th. And probably shut down one of my underperforming stores to create cash flow for the other 2 because I can't operate on credit and will have to raid into an unused operating fund.

[ellacott]

28. My goodness. I hope it doesn't come to this for you.

I'm hoping my job can meet payroll this week. Many don't understand the ripple effects.

[DJ13]

4. This bill helped Wall Street

The crisis originates on Main Street.

You cant get well by treating the symptoms while ignoring the cause of the illness.

[tandot]

5. Not everybody here is cheering

I'll join the unemployed in January unless I find another job. I am afraid that jobs will be hard to come by in the next couple of months.

I hope my ten-year-old Toyota Corolla will make it without breaking down. I don't even know if I could get a loan to buy another car.

[lala_rawraw]

20. focus on something...

if this is so damn important, then why all the added bells and whistles for corporate executives and extra power for the Executive? why? surely, something this serious can stand on its own, with out this, no? why does it have to pass as such and only as such? because we are in a hurry? well then, perhaps if the Congress actually used this crisis to PROTECT you and me, and all of us, then it might make sense. but they are not doing that, are they? why?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MyNameGoesHere]

10. I just didn't want to own stocks in lehman, wachovia, Wash Mutual

that are issued by the gov. I would rather have free health care, excellent infrastructure and education.

[blondeatlast]

18. You may not feel it now, but in a couple of months are you going to be secure in your job?

If you are in the private sector, you better be ready. If you are a student with loans, you better prepare to drop out.

Wanna buy a house or car? Don't make me laugh...

I can't feel sympathy with your ignorance of what just happened.

Edit: byw; the lack of a functioning economy means a terrible hit to the tax base. You can forget your idyllic scenario after that.

[MyNameGoesHere]

30. I don't need any of that stuff.

I need food and shelter. I know how to acquire and i will be fine. But thanks for throwing the ignorant statement in there. See you listed things people want. You are going to have to figure out what you actually need.

[blondeatlast]

44. So you don't care if you have a job or not. Got it. nt

[MyNameGoesHere]

53. No i don't.

I grew up hunting, fishing, and farming for my food. I had no indoor plumbing or electricity. The house and property are paid for. I can still do all those things and survive. See it's not about money if it gets that bad, it's about survival. And yes i think i still know how.

[Hippo_Tron]

64. Good for you, the other 99% would rather use markets to survive rather than subsistence farming

So I really don't see any reason why we should determine policy based on what you want.

[MyNameGoesHere]

90. Well you can keep your fake money

and tell me how many loafs of bread that is going to buy you.

[blondeatlast]

68. So it'[s all about YOU. Got it again. nt

[Daphne08]

11. I understand. My widowed mother has been putting money

away money for her retirement for 30 years. She has scrimped and saved, and she still lives in the same house they bought in 1948.

I'm terrified for her!

My youngest son works for a small business, and I'm terrified for him.

I think many here don't really understand.

[VolcanoJen]

12. Exactly. How are small businesses supposed to meet their payroll...

... if the credit market locks down and they can't get advances when struggling?

This isn't just a Wall Street crisis, people. YOU MIGHT NOT GET PAID THIS WEEK while the GOP plays Lucy-and-the-Football.

THINK!! For gawd's sake!!!!

[Zookeeper]

13. Frankly, a lot of this is over my head, but I suspect that much of...

the anger over bailing out Wall Street is the thought that the soul-less, greed-mongers will walk away unscathed from the mess they've created.

Is a bail-out necessary? Yeah, I guess, but the taxpayers better end up with something to show for it and the over-paid execs should be cut-off at the knees.

[Bryn]

14. Hang in There

There is still hope for you and people like you and us. They need to get their priorities straightened out first. There will be another vote after more discussions/meetings.

Chaos before the Order

[Doityourself]

15. I'm losing money minute by second! ugh!

[ContinentalOp]

16. Nobody is cheering on economic collapse. We can still fix this.

Is this market crash anything but Wall Street reacting to the fact that the no-strings-attached handout isn't coming their way? Paulson set this crash up by creating the expectation that the money was coming.

[DefenseLawyer]

19. Actually there seem to be lots of people cheering on economic collapse

Look around.

[lala_rawraw]

21. no one should be cheering...

what they should be doing is demanding a responsible course of action from their members of Congress. why is it this or nothing? we have the power right now because it is our money they want. is it not about time we made some demands?

[ContinentalOp]

I have been reading every thread I can find on the subject and I don't remember anybody...

cheering the idea of a full scale economic collapse. Maybe a couple people said "let it all burn down" in the heat of the moment or something but that was an emotional reaction to what was a really fucking bad bill.

[lala_rawraw]

17. Spare me, mkay?

You do get that there are people here who don't have money to pay their bills and some who are homeless. Yet it is these people who have to help with their money? There are other ways of dealing with this crisis and surely, a bill to help people such as yourself should not require unlimited power and golden parachutes, should it? Should it?

[melody]

22. Do you want to keep the little money you DO have?

That's what we're talking about here -- the little that you DO have is at risk. Do you want to eat?

[lala_rawraw]

29. That is not what we are talking about here...

Surely something this important should require a responsible course of action, should it not? If we are at a point where blackmail for our money is delivered in the lovely package of eat or give it up, then we are truly screwed. But as I see it, right now we have the power and it is about time we made some demands before we allow our money to be used. People like you need to make some demands. People like me. All of us. We hold the money and we won't let this pass until we get a responsible course of action that not only protects us from these thugs, but also addresses the urgency of need that the citizens of this country have after 8 years of being robbed and then told to pull ourselves up by our boostraps. Don't become frightened. Get motivated and demand what is your right to demand. Hold your ground.

[melody]

33. The hell it's not -- that's EXACTLY what we're talking about!

Have you READ anything about the situation? I was against the bailout a week ago until I READ about it and talked to people who know about this.

[lala_rawraw]

57. you are not reading me correctly...

i believe that something has to be done, no question, but it has to be responsible and fair.

[Spider Jerusalem]

26. Are you fucking STUPID?

ARE YOU?

The proposed bill that just got voted down had OVERSIGHT and a provision limiting executive compensation! You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what you're talking about, and therefore any opinion you may care to venture on the subject is worthless.

Instead of providing $700bn (£380bn) upfront for the treasury to buy distressed mortgage-related securities, Congress will initially only make half the money available with the rest contingent on future oversight.

This staggered disbursement was pushed heavily by New York's Democratic senator Charles Schumer and means that politicians can now refer to the plan as a slightly less eye-watering "$350bn rescue".

Paulson, who was criticised last week for seeking "monarchical-style" unchecked powers, will face four different levels of scrutiny - by a congressional board, an independent inspector general, the government's audit office and through judicial review.

In perhaps the most significant change, taxpayers will be "guaranteed" full repayment of the bail-out fund from financial institutions once the economic crisis eases. The mechanism to make this happen is far from clear although one idea is for a 2% tax on financial firms after five years if the program is in deficit.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/28/wallstreet.marketturmoil2

The rescue would only be open to companies who deny their executives ``golden parachutes'' and limit their pay packages. Firms that got the most help through the program - $300 million or more - would face steep taxes on any compensation for their top people over $500,000.

The government would receive stock warrants in return for the bailout relief, giving taxpayers a chance to share in recipients' future profits.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7835356

[Doityourself]

31. Bingo..the ignorance is astounding.

[lala_rawraw]

32. have you actually read the whole thing or just the cliff notes?

and stupid is one thing i am not, but by all means, resort to foolish emotional outbursts that mean nothing and accomplish nothing.

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. Then wilfully ignorant.

Which in practice is no different than stupidity.

[Doityourself]

45. BINGO AGAIN!

[Just Visiting]

47. Oh please

Read the bill, especially the part where it talks about WHO make up the Oversight Committee.

It's a joke - just put in there for the evening news sound-bite.

No teeth at all - if there were, the CEO's and the lobbying arms would kill it.

There are loopholes in that thing big enough to drive a bus through.

[PVnRT]

Stop with the facts

It's much better for them to pretend that this is something it's not.

[lala_rawraw]

56. have you actually read the whole thing or just the cliff notes?

and stupid is one thing i am not, but by all means, resort to foolish emotional outbursts that mean nothing and accomplish nothing.

[SIMPLYB1980]

23. K&R!

[femrap]

24. The Federal Reserve has flooded

the markets with cash. Banks have been given billions of dollars, but they still are not loaning to anyone. What makes you think they are going to loan to you after more money is printed???

Can't you put your 401K dollars into a money market fund, a Gov't fund, or a high quality Corporate Bond fund. Most mutual funds offer these in their family of funds.

And did you ever think that maybe this is their plan all along? And just wait for the October Surprise!

[melody]

25. I don't think these people realize that their ability to survive is at risk

They think they're all punishing the "evil rich people" when they're cutting off their own noses, etc, etc.

[girl gone mad]

"These people"

have had their ability to survive put at risk by 20 years of corporate excess.

[melody]

37. So has mine -- and now your ability to survive is in even greater peril

If you're living hand to mouth, I mean utter economic blight is ahead of you. No home, no food, eating out of garbage cans.

[girl gone mad]

65. PANIC!!!!!1!

I think you would do well to head straight to the doctor and request a prescription for ant-anxiety medications.

[lala_rawraw]

58. apparently

we are "these people" sadly, this is what it has come to. as though "these people," us, have no clue about losing a job or having no health care or losing a home. apparently, when you and i both log off, we will be going to our mansion in our limo.

[girl gone mad]

27. Do you believe that stock market gains should be..

guaranteed by the government?

[seabeyond]

34. yea... fat cats, and hard workers and people saving for retirement, you got yours

rollin eyes.

i am getting just sick

i hear ya

hubby started with a company a year ago. i havent trusted wallstreet since 2003 but with new job he started putting all he could in 401k for retirement. it is ONLY about 12k that we will lose

i guess we will be one of the lucky ones.

as long as there isnt a run on the bank with our cds

people are such assholes

[Just Visiting]

36. No one is cheering an economic collapse

Excuse me for jumping in here, as I just registered here for the sole purpose of bringing another point of view to what has happened.

This deal, if passed, would do NOTHING to solve this problem. NOTHING. What it WOULD do is exacerbate the problem to a degree that few here can even fathom.

The problem lies, as most know, with what is known in financial circles as "toxic" debt. What this is is simple - I'll use a mortgage as an example. Bank A holds a mortgage ORIGINALLY valued at 500K on its books, but due to the present economic mess is now only worth 300K. What the banks want from the government is FULL CREDIT for the 500K - in other words they want the taxpayers to OVERPAY for the privledge of fucking them over in the first place. (Oh, and anyone who thinks the poor sucker who for once in his/her life finally saw the American dream of home ownership within reach and grabbed for the brass ring is at fault is delusional). Not only that, but they also want safeguards that say if they fuck it up again (which they will, for greed and bottom-line thinking can not be legislated away) they'll be protected again.

Now, the ONLY way to grant this giveaway (it is NOT a bailout) is for the government to literally print money to cover it - we're talking TRILLIONS here. The 700B is a joke - ANYONE even close to the financial industry knows this problem is 10 fold what the government tells the rabble. When this happens (simply put) the rest of the world takes notice of a DE-VALUED currency. Not trying to make light of the damages caused here - but in this case fuck the U.S. - look to Europe. You put this much fake money into this economy and Europeans will run, not walk, to make the Euro the new standard. When that happens there will be hyper-inflation here like you can't begin to imagine and you can wipe yourself with the U.S. dollar for all that it will be worth. Remember, we have an import/export gap that is borderline insane within the parameters of a "functioning" economy, the European/Far Eastern banks will not allow themselves to be hitched to this anchor, and more and more overseas lenders will pull the plug long before they take the fall (save for Britain, but that is a story for another time).

Please folks, as difficult as it is look BEYOND your 401K. What will happen if this bill passes will DESTROY this economy. At least now there is a chance to get through a depression, and perhaps with some type of leadership re-invent the CCC from years back and get a manufacturing base back into the U.S., which is mandatory if this economy is to be saved.

The bill HAS to die. The bailout HAS to die. These institutions HAVE to fail. The consequences are too dire if they are allowed to be propped up.

[seabeyond]

40. YES there are people cheering it on. n/t

[Just Visiting]

43. Maybe they just see the big picture?

And know that the ONLY way to implement meaningful reform and to fix the problem is to let these firms go under?

[seabeyond]

48. i certainly understand the concept. i also see people losing their retirement, college fund and who

knows what will end up happening. not something to cheer about and gotta be a selfish/stupid sick prick to not have empathy. cheering is so inappropraite.

the big picture can also knock them on the very ass.... to not have any trepidation abou thte future is simply assine. i dont do assine or stupid well.

celebrating is ridiculous. somber, serious, .... yet a belief is another

[Just Visiting]

51. I can see that perspective

My point is simply that the alternative will make what is happening now look like losing a $2 winning lottery ticket in the wash.

Short-sidedness is often its own worst enemy.

[seabeyond]

54. it is EVERYBODIES guess. this has only begun. to say absolutely

that if that 700b is given,... then what it is worse than the alternative? we dont know what will happen if the 700b is not given, only a guess the 700b is given we dont know what will happen there. we would have a little better guess cause japan went thru this. also it is not a lost 700b that all opponents state. all could be paid back. a profit could be made. or we could get half. who the fuck knows. but it isnt just handing over 700b.... and i never hear anyone clarify that

[Just Visiting]

59. I wish I could share your hopes

but I can't.

The U.S. is bankrupt. It is swimming in debt, and now it proposes to solve a manufactured on-purpose crisis by printing funny money.

I know it won't work. The 200 economists who came out against the giveaway know it won't work.

There will never be profits for anyone save those who caused the misery in the first place.

Japan, as you know, tried everything including NEGATIVE mortgages before it realized what had to be done, and thankfully (for it) it had a manufacturing base and stable I/E ratio to work with. This country has neither.

It will be a bloodbath if they give them the money - a never-ending outlay of worthless money, backed by NOTHING save for a house of cards stock market that is just biding time before it too is exposed for the gigantic fraud it is.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

[iheartmulletz]

73. Did you see that recent documentary "I.O.U.S.A?"

It just came out and has info from the spring, but even then described exactly how dire the situation is. Omigod, I am wondering about inflation because even though I don't have a house (or a job, for that matter), inflation affects us all.

[Just Visiting]

76. I did not, but someone very close to me did

At a screening with a bunch of folks in the industry who would never be confused with me politically. :)

I was just glancing at the political sections of other websites, and I found a snippet to an article written by Mike Whitney that nailed this whole giveaway charade to the wall. Just read these three paragraphs and tell me why EVERYONE shouldn't be petrified of the ramifications of what many here want.

"Besides, there was no guarantee that the banks would use the money in the way that Paulson imagines. As one Wall Street veteran explained to me, "I don't see one penny of that $700 billion ending up helping the broader economy. I see it being used to prop up share prices so the insiders can salvage as much as possible when dumping their shares".

Indeed, the $700 billion is just part of a massive "pump and dump" scheme engineered with the tacit approval of the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve. Once the banksters have offloaded their fraudulent securities and crappy paper on Uncle Sam, they will do whatever they need to do pad the bottom line and drive their stocks up. That means they will shovel capital into hard assets, foreign currencies, gold, interest rate swaps, carry trade swindles, and Swiss bank accounts. The notion that they will recapitalize so they can provide loans to US consumers and businesses in a slumping economy is a pipedream.

The US is headed into its worst recession in 60 years. The housing market is crashing, securitzation is kaput, and the broader economy is drifting towards the reef. The banks are not going to waste their time trying to revive a moribund US market where consumers and businesses are already tapped out. No way; it's on to greener pastures. They'll move their capital wherever they think they can maximize their profits. In fact, a sizable portion of the $700 billion will likely be invested in commodities, which means that we'll see another round of hyperbolic speculation in food and energy futures pushing food and fuel prices into the stratosphere. Ironically, the taxpayers’ largesse will be used against them, making a bad situation even worse."



I will try and find a link to the rest of it, but this is what I have been ranting about on here most of the day.

[foo_bar]

83. I think I agree with most of your assumptions, but I know dick about macroeconomics

I guess my hand-to-mouth lay question is, how do you establish a new manufacturing base when the Walmarts of the world can get the same goods for 1/3rd the price via indentured/unorganized labor? I suppose the republican answer is to abolish the minimum wage, outlaw unions, and expand the pool of prison labor and migrant workers, while the Dem solution has to be protectionism of some kind, tariffs on Walmart widgets and rolling back NAFTA incentives to outsource? In terms of economic theory, is there something unique about the production of goods for export, or could a hyperliterate technological society (not ours) expand economically as a service economy indefinitely? Or is that postulate the cause of our problems?

[lala_rawraw]

63. then those people are in need of medical attention...

there should be no cheering, no politics, no siding with party. at this point, there has to be ONLY a responsible solution. period! i have yet to see one. Congress is in such a hurry to leave town, that they will pass anything to get out. they can extend their session and they can address this with responsible oversight. they are not. that is the issue for me, not the question of allowing a bail-out, but the question of what kind of bail-out we are going to allow. in the immediate, the 250k plus folks can have their taxes raised to help out the rest of us who have been shouldering the tax burden. surely there is a more fair solution to this, no?

[goodgd_yall]

38. There's a lot of ignorance showing up on the board today

Thanks for describing a real-life situation.

[goodgd_yall]

39. Self-delete: dupe

[mikelgb]

41. I'll take your business off your hands

more than I have

look, I have compassion for for my fellow humans rich and poor, but when you are talking losing 401ks, lines of credit, all this grand stuff that I can't even dream of... it seems you'll be left with what I have

[RollWithIt]

79. Now look here Mister... I worked hard for what I have....

Fifteen years ago I had nothing. I didn't magically inherit money. I saved it. Then I saved some more. I worked and worked and worked. So if your magic solution is to let everything come crashing down around you because you have nothing and everyone should be like you, I actually feel really sorry for you.

[ourbluenation]

87. thats a ridiculous post. as if. say something useful, please. n/t

[rosesaylavee]

42. K & R

I work with the construction industry. Construction and development is slowly grinding to a halt. Commercial projects are being delayed or stopped all together. For some reason, developers don't want to risk not having the financing in place to build.

I am not an economic whiz, but it does appear to me that we need the banks to be able to loan to businesses. Pass the fucking bill already!

[jesus_of_suburbia]

46. They are f***ing idiots.

[LynneSin]

49. I know, folks don't understand that there are many DUers here at risk

I'm not keen on this bailout but I know it needs to be done. And as long as their is protection for us folks here on 'Main Street', an open-book policy for those companies we're bailing out AND no rewards for the CEOs & ilk that put us in this mess - then I'm good to go.

[Just Visiting]

55. Really?

What will you think when the true giveaway costs are revealed? It WILL be several Trillion dollars - without a doubt.

Do you think merely printing money will make it all go away? Will you ever have to try and buy anything with the useless de-valued money that results?

Oh, and without trying to sound mean your belief that there will be no "rewards" for CEO's and an "open-book" policy for companies is hopelessly naive.

The CEO salary structures are TIED to performance - always will be. And you're trying to tell me government officials will make sure they behave? The same officials that have THEIR money tied up in those firms, and who profit when the CEO's do a "good job?"

That's just not gonna happen, and woe is you when you realize it.

[LynneSin]

60. Oh my!!

Welcome to DU

:eyes:

I'm not as naive as you would like to try and make me out to be. I realize that even with all the safeguards intact the corrupted will still find a way to corrupt. But we can't just sit back and do nothing because even though this bailout is for the corporations it's going to be folks like you and me who suffer the most.

[Just Visiting]

67. it's going to be folks like you and me who suffer the most.

No it isn't - that is what I am trying to get across here. We will suffer most if the plan goes through, NOT if we stop it. The problem with folks here (and everywhere else) is that all they can see is what happens to them tomorrow - NOT what will happen to them down the road. Trust me, tomorrow is a walk in the park compared to down the road -if we go down the blank check road. And it IS a blank check -the other "regulation" crap is window dressing - nobody in the financial sector is losing any sleep over THAT silliness.

The U.S. is broke! It has HUGE piles of debt, and now it thinks it can get out from the mess by issuing money (literally) printed out of thin air!

Think about this -if something someone did cost you $1000, but they were in debt to the tune of $50000 and had no income to speak of, would you give them $1000 to re-pay themselves if they promised be real careful next time?

Of course not, but you're willing to do it now because someone has convinced you that if you don't you'll never be able to get weaseled out of $1000 again.

Remember when everyone said we had to bail out Chrysler because if we didn't the auto industry would collapse? Anyone bullish on Chrysler these days?

We just let Lehman Bros. go under - everybody still breathin'?

I thought so.

P.S. Didn't we bail out a bunch of banks a while ago, with all kinds of rules and regulations that everyone promised would never let such a thing happen again. You don't really want to know where the movers and shakers behind THAT fiasco ended up now, do you? :)

[RichardRay]

74. That's it, you just completely los me at 'CEO salary tied to performance'

Horse pucky. CEO salary has absolutely nothing to do with performance, saying otherwise is complete bullshit.

[Just Visiting]

77. Oh mercy mercy me

Would you feel better if I said "CEO compensation?"

It has EVERYTHING to do with it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Many people here are acting like idiots

1) Boy Who Cried Wolf Syndrome--They disbelieve ANYTHING coming out of the admin, even if it is true. If Bush told them they just stepped in shit, they wouldn't believe it without tasting that brown stuff on their shoe. Well, they're gonna have to eat shit now.

2) Ignorance--A lot of little kids here, even the older adult ones. They want the "whole thing" to go down. They're fucking stupid children, but boy can they shake a fist at the sky.

[lala_rawraw]

61. i don't want the whole thing to "go down"

I have yet to argue such a thing. But the bill is irresponsible and throwing more money at people who already stole money from the rest of us is hardly a solution... there has to be a fair share of the burden. The 250k plus have to see their taxes go up right away. The war profiteers have to have their assets confiscated and sold off at auction. There has to be a clause about bringing people to account after this emergency intervention. We cannot be the ones to burden this cost and there is no proof that this will remedy the situation - and if it does, longer than just through the election cycle. There are plenty of responsible ways to handle this, but none of these ways are being discussed. And there is surely not enough oversight, not for that kind of money. It is not about wanting it to go down. It is about a responsible and fair solution, not a fear-mongered one. If the Bush admin was not worried enough to bring this to the table without the bells and whistles, then Congress can forgo their session ending, stay in DC and not be worried about bringing in a responsible solution.

[RichardRay]

84. Why does there have to be a 'fair solution'?

Fair is a human concept we try to impose on the world. There is no fairness beyond what we manage to cobble up between us, and even that is ephemeral.

Trying to argue that a problem must have a 'fair solution' is a great way to get no solution at all.

[lala_rawraw]

88. if you have to ask that question

you are at the wrong forum. really

[RichardRay]

85. Why does there have to be a 'fair solution'?

Fair is a human concept we try to impose on the world. There is no fairness beyond what we manage to cobble up between us, and even that is ephemeral.

Trying to argue that a problem must have a 'fair solution' is a great way to get no solution at all.

[BootinUp]

52. You might want to try smaller banks for your immediate needs

Just a thought, as I read two days ago an executive from just such a bank saying nothing has really changed for them at this time.

As for mutual funds, I have moved all mine into the most stable fund a couple weeks ago and took the hit, but I set future buys 50% in a more risky category figuring it might be good to buy there over the next few months.

[codjh9]

62. I'm with you - I'm not 'rich' but I've got IRAs/mutuals/stocks that are all down

quite a bit, and I haven't even been WORKING the last 2+ years due to being a caregiver and then going through my parents' house, legal/financial/will/insurance crap, etc etc etc.

[goodgd_yall]

66. I JUST found out that

9 long-time employees at my company got their notices today.

Reality check for those with their heads in the sand.

[Just Visiting]

69. and giving away 3 trillion to failed Wall Street firms would have stopped

that exactly how?

[iheartmulletz]

70. I am totally ignorant about this stuff, but may I ask you this?

If you own the business, are you able to cash in the 401ks and give the money to your employees before the bottom really falls out? Well, I mean more than it did today (could you have taken out the money first thing this morning?)? If so, I sure as hell would. Then I would put it in a treasury bond or some other sound place.

[Coexist]

71. I am so sorry - people don't always look closely enough at details,

and go with visceral reactions.

It sucks. I am hoping the morons in Congress can get it together this week and pass something.

[Blarch]

72. good.

Let it all collapse.

[GreenInNC]

75. My job is toast after today

I work for a small family owned engineering and surveying company. We have been hit very hard by the housing bust and tightening credit markets. We are down to two engineers and the other one is the owner, who do you think is the next to go? My job is toast.

Sure this bailout is going to benefit the people who took us into this abyss but it was also going to help us on main street that depend on construction to put food on the table.

[Bucky]

78. I supported the bail out, given the few protections the Dems managed to extract.

You're right that a vocal few DUers are being tacky & class-warfarey about this, damning the consequences. I do seriously think this would be a good time to invest. Prices will be seriously deflated by the end of the week, assuming they haven't already started to climb back by then.

Good luck, Roll.

[1corona4u]

80. I just talked to my sister, and she lost a lot of money in her 401K today.

Many people did.

[chupacabranation]

82. I know. We need to call our reps and get them to pass something THIS WEEK. n/t

[Fractasticlicious]

86. Bring back the Guillotine!

And use it on the fatcats!

[Bluenorthwest]

89. Ok roll,

How about a bit of anger or talk of justice for those that actually did this to you? You are livid at those who have qualms, instead of those that put you in this position. Why is that? Why are you not demanding the heads of the crooks and con men that put good, honest business people like yourself in peril? I think a bit of that would go along way to bring in the opposition. You are soooo very angry at those who don't like the bill, and yet you seem to have no anger at all towards the ones who made the bill necessary. I find that to be stunning. This was done to you. And not by those who oppose this bill. At least the opposition folks are mad in the correct direction. Just a thought.
If I were you I'd be steamed. At the crooks who wrecked the banking system.