On McCain: "low ranking monkeys don't look at high ranking monkeys"

[IndianaGreen]

And here's another note from TPM Reader TB. I guess I'm really not sure quite how to characterize it ...

I think people really are missing the point about McCain's failure to look at Obama. McCain was afraid of Obama. It was really clear--look at how much McCain blinked in the first half hour. I study monkey behavior--low ranking monkeys don't look at high ranking monkeys. In a physical, instinctive sense, Obama owned McCain tonight and I think the instant polling reflects that.

So McCain may have given away his status as a low-ranking monkey. I'd never even considered monkey rank.

Late Monkey Science Update: In case anyone's wondering, I looked up TPM Reader TB's page at the University he teaches at. And no doubt about it, he appears to be a genuine monkey scientist, or to be more specific a researcher on social cognition and behavior in primates. I'd link to his page. But readers remain anonymous, save for their initials, until they tell us otherwise.

--Josh Marshall

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[Misskittycat]

1. Obama plays an additional mind-trip on McCain: he calls him "John"

instead of "Senator McCain." That is a subtle psychological signal to the listeners that they are at least "equal" even though one is considerably older than the other.

[DJ13]

2. I dont think it was fear, it was disdain

McCain (much like Bill Clinton) dislikes Obama because the people obviously like him.

Bill knew Hillary's best chance was this year (And he loves her enough to take it personal), for McCain its the same reason.

He wont ever see another chance at being President, and he resents Obama as a result.

[WinkyDink]

15. And here I thought it was "Country First!" Heh.

[BrainStorm]

3. There are lots of reasons for not looking at people. I wouldn't go to the monkey thing.

It's a bad meme for lots of reasons.

[eleny]

7. Right. It was so off notch and that was bad enough

I've never seen a politician act like that. They usually drop animosity during the handshakes, at least. So, to act like that for the entire debate including the hello and goodbye is just plain strange. And I don't want President Strange. Heck, even Nixon could look people in the eye and he was a stone paranoid.

[BrainStorm]

8. My guess is that it had something to do with the bailout argument earlier in the day

I'll bet the fight over the bailout is very, very nasty.

[eleny]

11. It's s clear, then...

One individual can rise above the contention and be more in the moment. The other simply can't.

Despite some people wishing Obama landed some punches last night, I'm glad to be a Dem today.

Btw, belated welcome to DU! :hi:

[BrainStorm]

16. Thanks!

:hi:

[Oak2004]

13. It's scientifically relevant however.

We're primates. And we do an extraordinary number of things other primates (monkeys included) do. That humans are still in denial about our primate nature does not change the fact that Obama acted like a dominant primate, McCain like a submissive primate. And whether we intellectually "know" how primates act towards each other, we instinctively know which of the two looked as if they were in charge.

Scientific facts are not "memes". They're just facts.

[grantcart]

4. McCain interacted with Obama as if he were a Vietnamese Prison Guard

The total lack of interaction.

The inability to engage in any common understanding. Obama went to the "I agree with John" well to often but unintentionally it will become the main issue of the debate.


McCain treated Obama like an object - not looking at him no friendly little jokes at Obama expense.

Reagan did great damage to Mondale by his funny little "I won't hold his young age against him"


McCain was angry and bitter and was facing up to Obama as if he held the keys to his cell, and in a way he does.

[hobbit709]

5. Could be

A lot of our facial expressions and basic behaviors are the same as other primates. Sometimes we can override it but subconsciously the basic behavior comes out.

[Cosmic Charlie]

6. low rankings monkeys also piss on themselves slightly when a high ranking monkey approaches

[Coexist]

10. did we have a pants/crotch-cam last night?

[lurky]

9. A more fundamental point? McCain's body language betrays him.

He just can't control it: Playing with his ring and ogling Sarah Palin, inability to make eye contact with Obama. These are not microexpressions, this is really obvious stuff that our head of state should be able to manage. How is he supposed to stare down Putin, for example, if he can't look him in the eye? How does he expect to negotiate with foreign leaders if they can always tell when he's bluffing?

[crazy_vanilla]

12. you are right, my friend

Maybe he is also embarrassed for having lied for so long and his conscience is catching up with him.

[Motown_Johnny]

14. He said he looked into Putin's eyes and saw a K a G and a B.. but he can't look Barack in the eye?

Maybe when he looks at Barack he sees the word PRESIDENT