"I'd rather have no plan, than this plan"

[Heather MC]

Sen. Shelby on Rachael Meadow.

Once again I think he is right
Rachael asked some awesome questions.

Are the Republicans trying to set the Dems up to side with Bush.

The problem is the Paulson plan. Maddow said the just picked the 700 billion amount because it was a quote "Large Number"

Shelby also admitted the Congress is not knowledgeable enough to make a decision about the economy.
Which is why he has a list of 200 economist saying this is a bad idea.

Shelby Also said, we don't want to rush to judgement we have gotten into trouble doing that in the past.

[earthside]

1. Shelby Has Got It Right.

If Congressional Democrats have any brains ... they will let the conservative Republicans kill this crappy bailout plan.

[Heather MC]

4. I pray they do, we are being sooo railroaded

Bush has been hiding out for months, then all of sudden he pops up to steal 700 billion for he and paulson's friends
I call bull shit!!!!

[MichDem10]

12. Shelby is WRONG! Market WILL DROP tomorrow!

The market operates on emotional swings. The news from Washington that the repukes have walked out on talks will have a devastating toll on the market on Friday.

[Barack_America]

2. But what is HIS plan?

That's what I'd like to know.

If it's this bullshit "let's give tax breaks and deregulate other industries so they'll bail out the financial industry" House Republican plan, my answer is an emphatic "fuck no!"

[Heather MC]

3. I think the Monkey running the country, took a bad situation and made it worse

I think Our markets could have survived until at least after nov 4th and we found out Bush was out Obama was in. However, now that our retarded President has gone on National TV claiming dire straits, and McLame fake ass campaign suspension, and the injection of party politics into the process

We now have to do something. But I am sorry this ain't it. They don't even know why they came up with 700 billion, that just pulled a number out of the air. I think they need time to talk to non partisan economist. look the people on Capital hill, don't know jack shit about wall street. Instead of spending a week talking to Paulson, they should spend the next week talking to non-partisan economist, and create a plan based on some facts and fingures and not just a "large number"

What Paulson did, is what you do in a lawsuit, you ask for a really big number that you know you don't have a chance in hell to get, in the hopes they will at least meet you half way.

Bush tried to work up a public frenzy to make the congress go faster, just like he did on the IRAQ WAR VOTE. We shouldn't do this. Not like this. Ed Rendal just called it Rape
and that's what it feels like we are about to get fucked

[TxRider]

22. It's insurance.

He wants us to issue insurance on these bad loan backed securities. The failure of th insurance on them is what caused this, go look up credit default swaps...

That insurance would give those assets real values, and make them liquid.. It would bring in revenue in the form of premiums from Wall street to back their shaky securities..

Problem is this, insurance is risk wagering, and there's a decent chance we would end up having to pay out. That means Wall street would get the money in trade for a few premiums and walk away with it leaving us holding the bag.

At least with Paulsen's plan, we're buying assets that do have some value, and lucky for us JP Morgan just established precedent on valuing those "illiquid" "unable to value" assets when they bought WAMU's mortgage backed securities in that buyout.

Congress just need to see their methodology for valuing them and what price they paid. JP Morgan isn't going to buy them to take a bath, they intend to profit on them.

[seabeyond]

5. japan had same issue with their banks 2001, 2002. google it. they did the same thing

their economy is healthy. they got all and more back from the buyout.

[Heather MC]

8. Japan's economy is healthy because of the US

They sell us all their crap, they do make great cars.

Who buys american made goods outside of America??

We buy Drugs from Swizerland, it helps subsidize Switzerlands free healthcare
We but Cheap crap from China and Japan

We buy cars from Germany
and Oil from the Middle East

All of those countries are thriving economically right now

Who buys from the US
How can we strengthen our economy if we don't start selling crap in the open markets that's made in the US?

[Statistical]

9. US Exports in 2007 were $1.7 TRILLION .... thats a lot of "nothing" (n/t)

[Heather MC]

13. Now can you subtract that number from how much US dollars leaves

the US and goes to Foriegn Markets
if we are spending more than we are keeping
then it is nothing no matter how big the number

[seabeyond]

14. so you didnt check it out to see that their banks were in the same condition

and the results they had? what my husband did do was take the time to investigate some anyway

[Heather MC]

15. I found out from the CIA

that Japan has googobs of money 2 Japan $ 212,800,000,000 2007 est

America not so much 188 United States $ -738,600,000,000 2007 est.

Did Japan start their bailout from a point of being over 700 trillion in debt?
I don't know really school me
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-fact...



Current account balance
Date of Information
1 China $ 360,700,000,000 2007 est.
2 Japan $ 212,800,000,000 2007 est.
3 Germany $ 185,000,000,000 2007 est.
4 Saudi Arabia $ 100,800,000,000 2007 est.
5 Russia $ 76,600,000,000 2007 est.
6 Switzerland $ 72,840,000,000 2007 est.
7 Norway $ 63,660,000,000 2007 est.
8 Kuwait $ 52,730,000,000 2007 est.
9 Netherlands $ 50,930,000,000 2007 est.
10 United Arab Emirates $ 41,670,000,000 2007 est.
11 Singapore $ 39,160,000,000 2007 est.
12 Sweden $ 37,990,000,000 2007 est.
13 Taiwan $ 31,700,000,000 2007
14 Algeria $ 30,580,000,000 2007 est.
15 Iran $ 30,470,000,000 2007 est.
16 Malaysia $ 26,050,000,000 2007 est.
17 Hong Kong $ 25,460,000,000 2007 est.
18 Libya $ 24,280,000,000 2007 est.
19 Qatar $ 23,440,000,000 2007 est.
20 Venezuela $ 23,230,000,000 2007 est.
21 Thailand $ 14,920,000,000 2007 est.
22 Belgium $ 14,640,000,000 2007 est.
23 Canada $ 13,260,000,000 2007 est.
24 Finland $ 11,270,000,000 2007
25 Indonesia $ 11,010,000,000 2007 est.
26 Austria $ 10,040,000,000 2007 est.
27 Azerbaijan $ 9,010,000,000 2007 est.
28 Iraq $ 7,802,000,000 2007 est.
29 Argentina $ 7,438,000,000 2007 est.
30 Brunei $ 7,101,000,000 2007 est.
31 Angola $ 6,747,000,000 2007 est.
32 Philippines $ 6,351,000,000 2007 est.
33 Chile $ 6,050,000,000 2007 est.


SKIPPING TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST


175Ireland $ -11,690,000,000 2007 est.
176Poland $ -15,480,000,000 2007 est.
177India $ -19,350,000,000 2007 est.
178South Africa $ -20,560,000,000 2007 est.
179Portugal $ -20,890,000,000 2007 est.
180Romania $ -23,130,000,000 2007
181France $ -33,390,000,000 2007 est.
182Turkey $ -38,030,000,000 2007 est.
183Greece $ -43,700,000,000 2007 est.
184Italy $ -47,250,000,000 2007 est.
185Australia $ -56,200,000,000 2007 est.
186United Kingdom $ -136,200,000,000 2007 est.
187Spain $ -145,600,000,000 2007 est.

188 United States $ -738,600,000,000 2007 est.

[Heather MC]

16. Hey there did some reading and ummm...

Japan didn't come to this decision in a week
they put a committee together to find a solution
they used the US bailout of the Savings and Loans as a model

We are making a hasty decision with zero research
that's not smart
that's John McCain's way

http://www5.cao.go.jp/zenbun/wp-e/wp-je01/wp-je01-000m2.html

[seabeyond]

17. well hell, we could use both our experience with savings and loan and japan

it sounds to me like obama at the least, i would imagine others have been discussing this for a while.

i was listening to young turks. he said that two repug x secs and a dem sec are voting for obama because.... one repug x sec said obama called him a good year ago and has been asking him questions. what he thinks. what needs to be done, ect... doing his homework. i think that at least the dems are aware of what is happening and what needs to be done.

i am not sold on all this anyway. i am jsut not. everyone lies, i dont know the truth from the lies. bush about burned me on all that with iraq. i cannot be too strident on my argument for this. i am hearing from enough people that it has to be done, yet repugs play games. to get no capital gain tax for two years. what is that crap

but i thought you ought to have the info on japan (it assured me a tad) because i have seen more than one of your threads.

[Heather MC]

18. I just believe that making a financial decision based on desparation

is always a bad decision.

they need to consult someone other than Paulson and other congress people who don't know a thing about Wallstreet and economics, or even understand what we are dealing with.

All Congress really knows is that all their rich friends are running out of money and can't afford to fly them places for free anymore

[seabeyond]

19. i had to hunt this video down

and i dont do that often anymore cause i was on a repug/dem site once. i would put all kinds of effort into gathering info for it to simply be dismissed. so i almost never put the energy in it any more

but, lucky i was able to find this video, that again, reassured me a bit. this isnt an out of blue decision i dont think. i hope not anyway. i can understand why you would feel burned on rushing thru. iraq. patriot act. we have seen this too much with bushco

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=197289&mesg_id=197289

[Heather MC]

23. I watched the Video

I know Obama has a handle on this
but he really shouldn't be a direct part of this legislation
right now, and he can't sit in the room and talk to these idiots

But we will see what happends tomorrow
g'nite

[Ilsa]

6. I wonder if they are setting up the Democrats for the massive

failure of the economy next Spring if nothing is done. It could get bad enough to keep the democrats out of the WH for a number of election cycles.

[scheming daemons]

7. I love you Heather, but you are wrong..... this deal fails, the nation falls into Depression

within 6 months.

[Heather MC]

10. I am not saying don't do the A bill, but not this one

the base of this bill started from a 3 page propsal filled with some odd demands
I don't think CEO's should get any compensation with tax payer money

the Amount of Money came from thin air, and then Bush pushed this doom and gloom to force Congress to rush it through. It's like the Iraq war push

I would like to see someone take the reigns and introduce a propsal that has some serious thought behind it, with a real foundation of where the proposal came from
complete with why ask for the amount they need as in after doing market research blah blah blah

And with the help of these economist this is our proposal blah blah blah

No here pass this I wrote it on toilet paper after spending the night in jail.

The problem with picking an amount out of their asses which Rachael Maddow basically reported they did, it doesn't address the full problem, it may be more than 700 billion
it may be less, there was not research done on this amount

Tomorrow when the markets open if the dow falls 300 to 600pts or more
then I will sing a different tune


and btw
I love you too!

PS Hover tried this just before the Market Crash

[jberryhill]

20. Question...

This stuff is not my strong suit.

If there is no guarantee that this 700 billion ransom won't do what it is supposed to do, what is the cost of fixing what breaks rather than trying to stop it from breaking?

It has the feel of WMD in Iraq with Paulson playing the part of Colin Powell, IMHO.

[Cha]

11. I agree with this republican Shelby..

is he always a straight shooter or just now?

[Maven]

21. Fuck him, and every other Republican who double-crossed and sandbagged the Dems

This WHOLE THING was an elaborate con-game to make them look simultaneously like they were saving everyone's asses and doing the people's bidding.

It was a fucking CON.