Clark taking the "high road"?

[mzmolly]

I heard Clark wasn't attacking other candidates, and then I saw this:

"Over the past few days, the other Democratic candidates have begun to say that they believe Mr. Dean is unelectable because of his beliefs. The most outspoken of them is General Wesley Clark, who on Sunday ruled out the possibility of joining Mr. Dean as a vice-presidential candidate and said that his opponent's lack of foreign-policy experience would make him a poor candidate against Mr. Bush."

"I just don't believe that, at this time in American history, the Democratic Party can field candidates who can only represent the education, health, job and compassionate sides of the party," Gen. Clark said in an interview with NBC..." ~ January 2004

It seems Mr. Clark is not above politics as ususal?

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Read the quote again

It's not a slam. It's a fact. It's hopelessly naive to believe the Dems can field a candidate with zero foreign policy experience and win a general election during this time of fearmongering and "terror alerts".

I'm sorry Dean supporter, but it is not a personal slam.

[mzmolly]

5. Oh when Wes slams it's "truth" and when the others mention Wes's

vote for Nixon/Reagan/Bush 1 it's nasty politics. In-teresting.

[Jack_Dawson]

8. Molly, stick to the topic at hand

the quote you produced is not a personal attack on Dean. Re-read it when you get a moment.

[mzmolly]

12. Oh, a new definition of *slam* I see...

:eyes:

[Jack_Dawson]

17. Eye-rolling aside, where is the slam? Doh! There is none.

But thanks for playing...

:toast:

[mzmolly]

22. When a Democrat who is running for President calls another Democrat

A loser
A Republican
A bastard

no matter how thinly veiled, it's a *slam*

DOH - Thanks for Playing :toast:

[maddezmom]

23. and when did Clark say these things about Dean?

[mzmolly]

43. He didn't say the last two.

I was giving an example.

[maddezmom]

47. ok

but I disagree with the first. :)

[Bread and Circus]

69. He didn't call Dean a loser, you did...

and I wonder why.

[mzmolly]

71. What's the opposite of win again?

See post #48 for more on this subject.

[Bread and Circus]

79. the opposite of win is lose, but that doesn't mean Clark called Dean...

a "loser". We all lose from time to time, even
Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Ali - that doesn't
make them losers.

Here are three congruent sentences:
Michael Jordan has lost a basketball game.
Michael Jordan is not a loser.
Michael Jordan is a winner.

---

Again, Clark didn't call Dean a loser, you did.

[mzmolly]

84. Saying Dean will lose, is calling him a loser.

"Dean can't win" = Dean will lose.

I didn't call Dean a loser, in fact he's my choice for President. :hi:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/12/15/clark/index.html

[Bread and Circus]

108. hmmm...

"Saying Dean will lose, is calling him a loser." -mzmolly

It seems you are very creative.

[Clark Can WIN]

112. You did call Dean a loser, Clark did not. He did not in fact single out

Dean. You did and the interviewer did.

He gave an opinion: "I just don't believe that, at this time in American history, the Democratic Party can field candidates who can only represent the education, health, job and compassionate sides of the party,"

First of all notice candidates .......... plural.

Second, I am willing concede that this does apply to Dean if you are, but it is still an opinion, hardly the distortions and outright lies Howard Dean has peddled about his fellow candidates.

[Turkw]

83. By that thinking any candidate that says they will win is calling every

other candidate a loser.

[mzmolly]

88. A better way for Clark to say he will win, it to say

"I will win." or "I'm the best candiate to beat George Bush." It's a little less personal that way. I don't recall Clark saying Kerry can't beat Bush, or Lieberman or Gephardt, or ???

[Clark Can WIN]

115. He didn't name any names here either

He said "candidates". That would be the plural form of candidate so unless Dean has gone Sybil on us he shouldn't take it personally either. It's an opinon.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

95. It's not issue-related. Since when should we care that a candidate

voted for a few Republicans around 20 years ago.

[retyred]

114. delete

[MR. ELECTABLE]

7. Here's a quote for you

It's hopelessly naive to believe that the Dems can field a candidate with ONLY foreign policy experience and win a general election.

I'm sorry Clark supporter, but it is not a personal slam.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

11. Clark also has a masters in economics, and is a Rhodes Scholar

I don't see him as having any problem there. They always say that it's the foreign policy that's hard to learn - but that the domestic policies come much easier.

[Jack_Dawson]

13. Actually he had 2 or 3 masters degrees and speaks 4 languages

I'm thinking questioning his intelligence/capabilities is a losing proposition...

[mzmolly]

28. How bout questioning his integrity and lack of experience on the domestic

front...I'd say that's legit.

[Jack_Dawson]

34. It would be except...

Bush has been muddling through for 3 years not knowing anything AND remaining an idiot.

Clark's positions are already much more clearly defined and intelligent (www.clark04.com), his IQ is at least 50 points higher than chimpy's, has proven leadership experience and whatever he doesn't have experience in, he will learn and appoint the right person - just like all great leaders.

[mzmolly]

40. But I'm not interested in another dolt...

I prefer to examine the record before appointing someone to the top job.

However, I wan't to "stay on topic" as you suggested earlier. I was making a point about Clark being a typical politican *which he is allowed* but many Clark supporters seem unwilling to admit just that.

[Jack_Dawson]

42. by calling Clark a dolt you reveal your ignorance

C'mon MzMolly...do your homework before you post. I mean really.

[mzmolly]

45. Now now Jack, I never called Clark a dolt...

my what a double standard we have.

[Jack_Dawson]

46. "I'm not interested in another dolt" - MzMolly

I know...somebody hijacked your computer?

:toast:

[mzmolly]

50. Jack, my claim is Clark *may* be a dolt, but we don't know for sure

as we haven't seen him in the political arena before. Sorry if that was over your head. I meant not to imply that Clark is a dolt, but that Clark *may* be a dolt.

:toast:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

123. Then I guess you've checked out your candidate's record. Pretty scary...

Truly bush-lite.

[maddezmom]

36. ok go ahead

won't be the first time you've done that before.

[Turkw]

58. Here is an account of his character and integrity

Very moving story:

http://ellabella.forclark.com/story/2004/1/6/182850/1804

If you don't like his postitions, fine, but don't put words in his mouth or question his integrity with out proof.

[mzmolly]

62. Send it to Hugh Shelton.

He has a question about Clark's integrity. I remain unconvinced either way.

[Turkw]

78. Shelton should give specifics, then answer why he praised Clark during

the same time that these issues supposedly came up, or publicly apologize. Anything else is cowardly.

[Bread and Circus]

82. Yeah, Hugh Shelton is my idea of a judge of character.

Not!

I'd rather think for myself.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

92. Sorry , but Clark is the honest one - your candidate lies every time he

opens his mouth. Your candidate will say or do anything to get elected.

You are listening to a guy (Shelton) who "acts coy" and won't explain what he is even talking about. He's lifelong friends with another candidate - is working on the campaign for that candidate. Might I also add that if this candidate get beat by Clark in South Carolina - his campaign is over.

Shelton is the same person who played "politics" with Clark in the military and lost. Oh, and let's see - he used to "rave" about Clark (said things about how much integrity Clark had). Is this the guy that we're supposed to be listening to?

Oh, and several other soldiers backed up Clark, saying that Clark was smarter, had a better personality than most of the other soldiers and THAT's why there was some "grumbling" about him.

[mzmolly]

97. "I" am not listening to Shelton...

I said Shelton questioned Clarks integrity. I have my own reasons for questioning Clark, but I won't mention them here as they are off topic.

"Clark had a better "personality," so they grumbled about him? :eyes: So says who? Clark?"

[kerry-is-my-prez]

129. Barry McCaffrey, Col. Douglas MacGregor, Prather, General Shalikashvili

The list goes on and on....

http://bottlerocket.forclark.com/story/2004/1/3/19256/49752/#1
Ret. General Barry McCaffrey attributes the tension to the fact that Clark "...was way too bright, way too articulate, way too good looking and perceived to be way too wired to fit in with our culture. He was not one of the good ol' boys." Yet McCaffrey has high praise for Clark, stating "He is probably among the top five most talented I've met in my life. I think he is a national treasure who has a lot to offer the country."

In the same article, Army Colonel Douglas MacGregor says "There is this aspect of his character -- he is loyal to people he knows are capable and competent." "As for his peers, it's a function of jealousy and envy, and it's a case of misunderstanding. General Clark is an intense person, he's passionate, and certainly the military is suspicious of people who are intense and passionate. He is a complex man who does not lend himself to simplistic formulations. But he is very competent, and devoted to the country." It is telling to note that Clark's naysayers in this article remained anonymous."



From Col. Charles G. Prather IV: "The most brilliant and gifted officer I've known. I have never been more impressed with an officer's talent and dedication...should rank with men like Douglas MacArthur." ||

From General Shalikashvili: "...outstanding commander...quick of mind and an extraordinary strategic thinker."
Quote from Times: He said General Clark would not have been promoted repeatedly if most of his commanders did not agree. || I guess we can see the real reason why Clark got the job Cisneros wanted.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

130. Oh pulling a Shelton, eh? LOL!

n/t

[Clark Can WIN]

120. Clark actually has more experience with domestic issues than Dean

Or at least equally valuable experience with certainly more people than there are in little Vermont.

The military is made up of CIVILLIANS and their families.

He had a budget, and from this budget he had to make sure that everyone had adequate housing, medical care, the kids had good teachers and books, the roads were maintained and the commisaries had everything from peppercorns to pregnancy tests, and a thousand other details to see to. This budget had to stay balanced too.

He also expanded day care, continued education, domestic violence and equal rights programs and more.

[Bread and Circus]

72. You're right it's not, it's an opinion of possible fact (as U see it).

Kudos to you -- you helped disprove the original
post.

ergo, Clark didn't slam/bash/insult Dean.

Also, Clark's right on -- so you might want to thank him
in advance for lending his insight.

[Cheswick2.0]

90. I guess he thinks it's time to cut the compassionate nonsense

and let a REAL MAN command the troops!

[jmaier]

93. I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time, Cheswick

but you no doubt notice that in the quote he used the term "who can only represent ... " that in no way denigrates the importance of health care, education, compassion, etc. Clark's position all along is that if you can't knock Bush/Cheney off of the national security pedestal they have with the electorate then you aren't going to have any chance to push a compassionate liberal agenda from the White House.

It makes sense to me whether or not you think Wes Clark is the guy to do it.



Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[metisnation]

67. Totally

If you research my reponses he on DU you will note that I have been a Dean supporter for awhile and I like his opposition to war in Iraq. But I do now believe that Wes has pointed out a critical point. We need some diplomacy skills here so we can get out troops safely out of Iraq. From what I can tell this man has dignity and honor...not that Howard doesn't either. I will vote for Howard if he makes it out of the primary, however I think Wes is the better man for the job. Let face it he has foreign relations experience, is able to make sound wartime decisions and he is after all from the south. Dean was right on the money in trying to appeal to the southerners and that all his flag statement was about, Clark will appeal to swing voters. thoughts?

[_NorCal_D_]

2. Could you provide a link?

[mzmolly]

15. Sure

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040106/DEAN06/International/Idx

Link above...

[_NorCal_D_]

29. LOL

This is so tepid, it couldn't even be called criticism. Clark even acknowledges Dean's perceived domestic expertise.

"I just don't believe that, at this time in American history, the Democratic Party can field candidates who can only represent the education, health, job and compassionate sides of the party," Gen. Clark said in an interview with NBC. "We have to be a full-spectrum party. We have to deal with the challenges facing America at home and the challenges facing America abroad."


Contrast this to what Lieberman has to say about Dean:

Lieberman: Dean Will 'Melt' Under GOP Attacks
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A39714-2003Dec29?language=printer

"I've got some news for Howard Dean," Lieberman added. "The primary campaign is a warm-up compared to what George Bush and Karl Rove have waiting for him. . . . He's going to melt in a minute once the Republicans start going after him."

Clark is certainly taking the high ground.

[mzmolly]

31. LOL

is right. Lieberman is known to be a typical politician, which is why the quote you noted is not noteworthy.

Clark is campaigning, and I'll give him that. But I think calling someone unelectable is a low blow, and fodder for Rethugs. Especially when your saying it about the front runner.

[_NorCal_D_]

35. I would love to see a credible link

where Clark states that Dean is unelectable.

[mzmolly]

39. He said "Dean can't win"....

does that count?

[_NorCal_D_]

41. Certainly,

but I still want to see a credible link. B-)

[mzmolly]

48. Salon credible enough for you?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/12/15/clark/index_np.html

"Clark made his strongest statement to date about why a Dean-Clark ticket is a bad idea. Clark, who says that he's uniquely qualified to go "toe-to-toe" with President Bush on security issues in 2004, said that whether he's on the ticket or not, the Democrats can't win with Dean as their presidential candidate."

"Contacted about Clark's comments, Dean campaign spokesman Steve McMahon offered only a brief response: "We think that will be up to the voters to decide."

I would tend to agree

[maddezmom]

53. I agree, too

it's all going to come down to the voters. If your guy gets more votes, he wins and vice versa.

[jpgpenn]

61. Sure, truth matters

Dean Can't win!

[mzmolly]

68. Wow, did I just stumble across Free Republic?

:shrug:

Watch Dean win!

[Clark Can WIN]

125. No he did not say "Dean can't win" YOU DID

Perhaps it says something about your inner fears? <Freud off/>

[MidwestMomma]

139. Don't think there is such a link

See my post 131 below about how the Clark quote in the original post has been taken out of context. Hope that helps.

[Bread and Circus]

87. Is Dean entitled to the nomination and above criticism?

"Especially when your saying it about the front runner."

-mzmolly


--

Especially?

Especially?

Did I hear that right?

You mean we have to...absolutely have to...give Dean
special treatment? Because he IS the front runner?

--

I can't believe that is the attitude.

[mzmolly]

96. Well it's one thing to say it about a candidate who is polling at 1%

but who'd dare do that?! I don't think front runners, should be calling other front runners "un-electable" it's too much fodder for Bush.

"Even Democrats think Dean is un-electable..." I can hear it now.

Yes, you "read" it right familydoctor.

[Bread and Circus]

105. Well I guess all 8 are guilty when they failed to raise their hands

in the Ted Koppel debate.

I actually think it would have been cool if Clark had
raised his.

Nonetheless, no one here has to kiss Dean's ass (yet).

[Clark Can WIN]

128. Dean has given the republicans all the fodder they need and more

those of us speaking against Dean are merely trying to avoid the 4 years of * that would surely follow a Dean nomination.

If you are crying and complaining about the incredibly mild comment you based your post on - how on EARTH do you expect Howard to stand up to the whithering firestorm of attacks in store for him by team Rove?

Many Democrats DO think Dean is unelectable, and you know what? He did it to himself with his mouth. No big conspiracy there.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

134. This after Dean calls him "Bush-lite." How this can even compare....

Dean and is just waaaay too sensitive. Just wait til Rove gets his mitts on him.

[maddezmom]

3. and I agree with him

do you have the link?

[flaminbats]

86. Of course, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

And the tower of Babylon was built to reach heights of heaven.

[Democrats unite]

4. If this is all you have to offer for Clark attacking Dean...

Nuff said.

[mzmolly]

9. Calling Dean a *loser* who can't beat Bush is staying above the frey?

hmmmm

[maddezmom]

14. where's that quote?

this is politics and it's going to get a lot nastier on all sides. That's is what I've been saying...I don't think Wes is above, but he hasn't been hitting full force yet.

[mzmolly]

30. Thanks for being more reasonable than many of your Clark peers.

:)

[Democrats unite]

33. To abd we can't get that from Dean supporters!

eom

[mzmolly]

51. I seem to recall a few Dean supporters congratulating Clark supporters

on an endorsement recently? ;)

[jmaier]

65. Yep

So do I and quite a few of us -- Clark supporters -- are quick to drop a congratulatory note on a key endorsement or 'broke the bat' thread for Dean as well.

I think we can compliment each candidates successes while still supporting our candidate and pointing out valid differences. That is pretty good politics to me.

[_NorCal_D_]

16. What?

Where on earth does Clark refer to Dean as a loser? :shrug:

[Democrats unite]

32. Her we Go with the Spin!

Where does Clark use the term loser?

I won't worry about waiting for a link, I know it won't happen.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

144. He didn't call him a "loser" - quit being so sensitive...

n/t

[oasis]

6. C'mon, Clark didn't initiate the discussion on Dean's "electability".

You don't run for office and just answer "yes" and "no" to questions.

[mzmolly]

37. I think he did initiate it, in a round about way... but my point is that

Clark is not above attacking other Dems.

It doesn't get much lower than "he can't beat Bush."

[Turkw]

74. It doesn't get much milder than "he can't beat Bush" It's his opinion

Some agree, some disagree. By your logic, thinking that he did initiate it makes you as bad as Clark, you have an opinion that others disagree with. He didn't say he was a bad person, he didn't call him a republican or Bush-light, things that candidates have said about Clark. Clark really has taken a much higher road than all the other candidates.

[oasis]

81. It is the opinion of some that Clark entered the race because he believed

that there was no one in the entire field of candidates who could beat Bush. So one could argue that the General thinks none of them are electable.

I'm a Kerry person, but I kind of see Clark's late candidacy as a stop Bush measure than an effort to discredit Dr. Dean.

[mzmolly]

99. My sounds like the dude has quite the ego.

;)

[Clark Can WIN]

132. Dean has no Ego issues?

Huh. His behavior speaks otherwise.

[deminflorida]

10. He only speaks for the majority...

you'll find that out on Feb. 3, hope you can just live with it, however.

[Ivote]

19. LINK

www.brevardforclark.com

[mzmolly]

20. dup

*

[mzmolly]

21. The "majority"?

How kind of Wes to speak for the "majority". :eyes:

Polls would indicate Wes speaks for a very few.

[jmaier]

18. That's pretty mild

for an "attack." It's really silly to think that a candidate isn't going to try and portray themselves in a better light than their competition -- it is an election for pete's sake.

Gov Dean made his bones early in the campaign by pretty constantly haranging his opponents on policy differences, philosophy differences. I think attacking the DLC and saying that folks like Gephardt, Kerry and Edwards were coopted by George Bush, etc. ranks a bit higher up on the negative rhetoric scale than anything Wes Clark has said or hinted at in his comments thus far.

[Scott Lee]

24. Sounds to me like Clark showing us he's Candidate War again

I wonder if anybody vets Clark statements for him?

With the quote you post, he practically says to Dean "Hey nobody wants a guy who can fix all our domestic problems. They want a general."

What a doofus.

[Jack_Dawson]

25. LOL uhhh...yeah

That's pretty much the conclusion any rational-thinking adult would come to...

:eyes:

With logic like that, I need to start :beer:

[mzmolly]

56. LOL

:hi:

[oasis]

98. "doofus" ? Top of his class at West point and Rhodes Scholar.

Expect a call from your Mensa buddies on that one.

[Scott Lee]

145. And when it comes to running a campaign - a doofus

Although I'm sure he did great at Westpoint drills. Especially the "Speedo Lance Attack" maneuver.

[BootinUp]

26. Yes, He Is

Basically, you show some quote from an unknown person which is BS, then you show a CLark quote that is nothing to complain about AFAICT. What's up with that mzmolly?

[KittyWampus]

27. Uttering The Truth- Dean Has No Foreign Policy Creds- Isn't Attacking

It sucks if you're a Dean supporter but it's just the truth... accept it.

Give them the Truth and they THINK it's hell.

My favorite example of a Dean supporter with a chip on shoulder complaining that Clark's attacking Dean when he's only stating fact:

Someone over the radio jokingly asked Clark about a skiing contest with Dean. Clark responds by stating the fact that while Dean was skiing he was recovering from wounds gotten in Viet Nam. One Dean supporter said this was OBVIOUSLY Clark calling Dean a Draft Dodger. :D

[mzmolly]

57. Oh, I don't think it's hell

but it would appear some Clark supporters do.

Has Clark ever heard of 'advisors'. Why on earth does he think our foreign policy agenda is more important then our domestic needs? Is he buying into Bush fear mongerering? :scared:

Allow me to restate that which I have an issue with.
...."would make him a poor candidate against Mr. Bush."

Poor candiate against Mr. Bush. Seems he's softened his Dean can't win rhetoric a bit, but the message is the same. See the link to the salon article above for more information.

[maddezmom]

76. this is almost funny

nothing against you mzmolly, but the other day someone was saying Clark had no control, he was controlled by advisor's. Clark and Dean are both in control of their agendas and campaign.

<<...."would make him a poor candidate against Mr. Bush.">>

I'm sure Dean would say the same, they are both running for Prez., they both think they are the best in the field.

[mzmolly]

102. I think it's time Dean did say just that...

But I don't really fault Clark, he's not the only one saying this among the candidates. I am just pointing out he's not above these things is all.

I honestly was impressed with his ability to refrain from this type of stuff, so I am a bit disapointed. It sort of set Clark apart from the others in a positive way.

Granted I support Dean regardless.

[Clark Can WIN]

133. would make him a poor candidate against Mr. Bush

interviewers words, not Clarks.

[jpgpenn]

80. "has Clark ever heard of advisors"?, ...yes

If you watched MTP this past Sunday, you would have seen Clark state that we have tried the Pres with NO foriegn policy experience but having MANY solid advisors and it didn't work!

"Why on earth does he think our foreign policy agenda is more important then our domestic needs"? He never said it was. Since we are a country at war ( and I don't mean Shrubs war, I mean war against terror and Alqeda ), foriegn policy experience is of the upmost importance. Domestic policy is just as high, Thank GOD Clark is a brillant man both in domestic and foreign affairs!

[Bread and Circus]

91. I guess by all of this you admit Dean has zip foreign policy experience?

Just asking.

[mzmolly]

101. Apparently waging war = foreign policy experience

Dean has not "waged" any wars.

However, I prefer that Democrats define the agenda, rather then try to beat Bush at his own game. I don't want to play "my candidate can beat up your candidate" KWIM?

Tell me about Clarks domestic policy experience again? Won't he need advisors, or is he planning on a one man show?

[Bread and Circus]

104. I guess your "non answer" means yes.

[mzmolly]

117. Wow, look out Chris Matthews

:spank: ;)

Gosh Chris, I answered your question. :P

I am much more interested in diplomatic experience *as it relates to foreign policy* then I am experience with the latest bunker buster.

Night

[retyred]

119. Dean may not have "waged" any wars

but he agreed with those that did!


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Clark Can WIN]

135. Tell me about Clarks domestic policy experience again?

See #120 above please.:hi:

[John_H]

38. LOL! Pointing out the obvious is now an attack?

1)Dean lacks foreign policy experience. Obvious on its face.

2)In the 2004 America the Democratic party has to field a candidate with national security credentials to beat Bush. This is just as obvious.

Dean supporters can delude themselves that National Security won't be the major theme of the general election, but if the Dean campaign thinks those two statements of fact by Clark are attack politics, that is in itself proof they'd never be able to withstand what Rove would do if Dean won the nomination.

[mzmolly]

44. LOL, Clark playing politics is now just some poor guy tellin the truth

is all. :silly:

[Leilani]

52. Do you really think

a governor who can't even secure 1 nuclear power plant in his home state can possibly inspire confidence in his ability to protect the country?

[mzmolly]

59. Cute.... nice spin. Time to shed a little truth on the subject

The nuclear power plant was the responsibility of the feds. Dean plead with 'the feds' to add protection to the plant in question, when they did not, he took matters into his own hands.

Do you really think a General is qualified to 'Govern' our nation? Regarding your question on Dean's ability to inspire, I'll let the record speak for itself, you know, $40,000,000.00 dollars raised, top of the polls and all.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

54. The great thing about Wes is

he tells the truth while playing politics.

Refreshing isn't it?

:-)

[maddezmom]

66. yes

I might have to change my sig line.

[mzmolly]

70. Awwwwe, I'm totally ... like ... touched.

;)

[Lefty48197]

49. Just be sure to spell his name right

when you quote him.

[incapsulated]

55. Deleted

by me.

[Crunchy Frog]

60. I don't think it's an attack

I think it is simply Clark giving his honest assessment of what the party is up against this election, and I happen to agree with it. If Dean gets the nom then I fervently pray that this assessment is wrong.

Clark is an expert at sizing up an opponent, whether it be Milosovic or Bush/Rove, and evaluating exactly where there strengths and weaknesses are, and putting together a successful strategy to prevail over them.

I personally want the person running who has a proven record of looking a crazed dictator in the eye, making him blink, and taking him out.

[mzmolly]

63. Why on earth are we so focused on taking out crazed dictators people?

I've had enough of that shit for a while. If I want to continue to 'take out' dictators, I'll vote for Bush.

[JVS]

73. Because we are a bunch of cowards

and we think that safety will come by taking out dictators. It won't.

[Crunchy Frog]

89. Sorry if you misunderstood,

the crazed dictator I was referring to is the current occupant of the white house. I'm not at all interested in foreign dictators, when we have our own right here. My only concern is about who is best qualified to take him out, YMMV on that question.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

137. Think it's a "guy thing." Dean wasn't entirely against the idea either .

n/t

[flaminbats]

64. ahhh yes, the road to hell...

I do know it well!

I still prefer blue devils to red ones, not that a mere mortal would dare to lump them into a single stereotype. :evilfrown:

[Zinnola]

75. Clark broke his campaign promise

to not slam another candidate. I figured the guy had to have SOME flaws..

[jmaier]

77. Welcome to DU

A nice slam post for your virgin comment. You'll fit right in.

:toast:


Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

147. Is it an insult or a compliment? It's a "backhanded insult! - LOL!

n/t

[Lefta Dissenter]

94. So how would you propose

he point out the differences between himself and the other Dam candidates?

Oh, that's right, we're all supposed to unite behind Dean... forget actually voting in the primaries...

Clark has passed up numerous baits by people interviewing him, people who have tried like hell to get him to slam Dean and the others (though particularly Dean). He has NOT taken the opportunity.

However, he does have to have the latitude to point out how he is different (and better than, in my book) the others. By the way, can you post a link for that campaign promise not to point out the differences? I must have missed that quote.

[mzmolly]

103. I'd prefer he say "I'm the best candidate to take on Bush"

rather then name names. However, I'm not that troubled, I just thought Wes was rising above politics as usual. :shrug:

[janx]

100. Have people forgotten this one?

"I didn't have as much practice skiing as the governor did. He was out there skiing when I was recovering from my wounds in Vietnam."

It doesn't really bother me; all the candidates are going to do this, but no one can actually say that Clark hasn't done it.

[mzmolly]

110. Yikes, guess I hadn't seen that one.

:hi:

[retyred]

121. Now that was a slam!

Go Wes!


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Clark Can WIN]

140. Again the painful, painful truth.

[Clark Can WIN]

138. Zinnola you are zippo in your early rounds I'm afraid

There's no there there. It's an opinion. If having an opinion constitues a flaw, they're all hopeless and so are we.

[Scott Lee]

146. Wanna take a crack at that one again?

When a guy swears not to attack other candidates and then does it anyway, that's not "an opinion". That is "breaking one's own word".

You're welcome.

[Cheswick2.0]

85. just as I thought

All his liberal credentials mean jack shit. If he knew much about his newly adopted party he would know we don't have to use bullshit words like "compassionate". It's not an ideal we put on like a campaign slogan,

[Rowdyboy]

107. Are Democrats just barred from using the word "compassionate"

or should we also be barred for acting in that manner? Also interested in your definition of "newly adopted". If a 12 year voting record is insufficient, would 16 do or must we have 20 years of more to be "real"? Just checking in on any new rules that might have been adopted since the last meeting.

[Forkboy]

106. As attacks go

this is pretty tame.

Clark has taken the high road far more than any others.

[worldgonekrazy]

109. No, Clark is the DLC shill

The other DLC shills, the ones that clearly cannot win the nom (Kerry, Lieberman, and Gep to a lesser extent) are attacking Dean while letting Clark remain largely above the fray. Its all part of the strategy. They bring Dean down and put Clark up.

[Rowdyboy]

113. Lets get rid of all those damned DLC'ers

We'll have 15-20 Democratic senators left, and at least 70 "real" Dems in the House. Sounds like a winner to me! :eyes:

[democratreformed]

116. While we're at it,

let's get rid of all their supporters too. That ways, we can kick out most of the Democratic party as well.

[Turkw]

124. But we will be pure, and that is what's important, being politically pure

Not beating Bush and helping the country.

I'll vote for a real leader who will win, there are NO second class citizens in the Democratic party!

[Clark Can WIN]

142. Oh my God and me without my tinfoil hat !!!!!!!!!!!!1

I'm sure kerry, and Gep will be very suprised to find out that they are "part of the strategy" to bring down Dean and put Clark up.

Please tell me you don't really believe that. If you do, you need to take a break from all this dude, get some perspective. Seriously.


:wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat::wow::tinfoilhat:


No offense but that is totally illogical. Try some nice springwater cause that kool aid is going bad.

[Mz Pip]

111. What part of this quote

is inaccurate????

He tells the truth. He does not spin. This is the new politics. :nuke:


MzPip
:dem:

[mzmolly]

118. Hate to cut out on my own thread gang, but my PC time is up and

I'm on dial up.

Night. :hi:

I'll check back tomorrow. :)

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brian_Expat]

126. Hahahahaha

"I just don't believe that, at this time in American history, the Democratic Party can field candidates who can only represent the education, health, job and compassionate sides of the party," Gen. Clark said in an interview with NBC..."

Hmmmm. . . Democrats who are concerned about education, health care, jobs and compassion for their fellow humans need not apply to the Clark campaign I guess. I knew there was a reason I am not a Clark supporter. :(

[jmaier]

127. Brian

that's an ingenuous misreading -- you'll not that he said " ... who can only represent ... "

ZZZzzzzzzz

[MidwestMomma]

131. The Clark quote is being quoted out of context...completely

First of all, who is being quoted in the first paragraph? No link so no idea. I'm guessing it's a network teaser or summary but I don't know.

However, the Clark quote I recognized immediately from his MTP interview on Sunday. The context of the quote is below. Please review the original question and answer. I think this might put a different 'spin' on it.

And please note that Clark starts his reply by saying ANY of the Democratic candidates are more qualified to be president then Bush. Does that sound like he thinks any of them are unelectable? That's the unnamed source quoted above talking, not Clark. Plus, he never even addresses Dean specifically. He response is that the Party can't field 'candidates who only represent'. Once again, it's whoever is being quoted in the first paragraph (whoever that is) that is saying Dean is unelectable and then using Clark's out of context quote to imply that Clark agreed.

Heres the quote and link. I'm sure it won't change the poster's mind but I wanted to make sure this error was corrected for those that did not see MTP on Sunday. Thanks for your time.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3849657/

MR. RUSSERT: General, you had this to say. "Having other people tell you what to do is no substitute for having been there in the arena yourself. ... You need a candidate who's got foreign policy expertise." Do you believe that Howard Dean has the necessary foreign policy expertise to be an effective president?

GEN. CLARK: Well, I'll say this to you, Tim. If George W. Bush is qualified to be president of the United States, then any of the Democratic candidates are more qualified. I just don't believe that at this time in American history the Democratic Party can field candidates who can only represent the education, health, job and compassionate sides of the party. We have to be a full-spectrum party. We have to deal with the challenges facing America at home and the challenges facing America abroad. And that's why I'm running.

[DrBB]

148. Really. What absolute sludge this thread is

There was a time--I swear to god--when DUers prided themselves on going to original sources, checking their facts and getting it right. So here we have a thread based on an unidentified teaser, a thread whose main point is taken not from what Clark said but from how this unknown mediawhore framed it. It's not like it's all that difficult to go to the actual MTP transcript and see if there's any truth to it (as YOU did, and thanks).

And the target of this sludge? Some worthless right wing hack? Nope. It's a fellow Dem and a worthy presidential candidate. Not that this kind of thing ought to be done to right wing hacks either--much better to damn them with facts, which are abundant, rather than gulping down media-generated pap like this.

My GOD people, if you're going to be this droolingly wide-eyed credible toward media spin at this stage in the game, how low is your IQ going to be by next fall when things really get going?

I'm about ready to give up on GD2004. It's fucking toxic. Not to mention ill-informed, vitriolic, self-defeating, and pathological. Guys sound more like Rush Limbaugh than Democrats around here. Adios amigos.

[Renew Deal]

136. That was criticism of Dean's experience, not his beliefs.

n/t

[angee_is_mad]

141. Five Dollars

[in_cog_ni_to]

143. That IS the high road

because it's the truth. We NEED it ALL. We need someone who can represent education, health, jobs, compassion AND FOREIGN POLICY. Clark has it ALL. He is the BEST man for the job. What he said was the truth. Not a bash,
like this is.....THIS is NOT taking the high road----->Democratic presidential front-runner Howard Dean yesterday blasted new 2004 candidate Wesley Clark as "a Republican until 25 days ago" who has become the "desperation" candidate for establishment Democrats. "What you see in the Wes Clark candidacy is somewhat of a desperation by inside-the-Beltway politicians," Dean told the CBS program "Face the Nation."

"You've got a lot of establishment politicians now surrounding a general who was a Republican until 25 days ago, voted for Ronald Reagan, voted for Dick Nixon, supported the war last October."