The campaign mistakes of Kucinich and how to set him right

[cryofan]

DK's best moment in the campaign so far (IMHO) was in the Sunday debate when he read from notes the mega-multimillion dollar salaries of the HMO executives. If he had been doing that from the beginning, I think his campaign would be further along than it is now.

His mistakes included publicizing the Internet date thing, his veganism (maybe for San Francisco, or some similar place, it would be OK). Also all the offbeat causes he supports have caused people to avoid voting for him.

Dennis's most positive aspect is that he is a genuine economic populist. He should be attacking corporations and their loopholes and scams. Their is tons of evidence out there to show this. He should be citing average tax payments for rich people and comparing them to how much working class people make, not talking about his veganism and similar frivolities.

His campaign manager is supposedly a "transcendental kinesthesiologist". That tells me a lot right there.

I call for Dennis Kucinich to fire this "transcendental kinesthesiologist" right now, ditch the effete and dilettante air his campaign has taken on, and roll up his sleeves, and "get solid" once again with the middle and lower class voters of America who could care less about his chankra, his veganism, his aura, etc etc., and go after the rich and their tax loopholes.

I want him to tell us how he is going to double the income tax rates of those with incomes above 200-300K/year.

I want him to tell me how me how he is going to cut the regressive payroll taxes for low income workers (say for those making under 20K/yr) and remove the ceiling for the payroll tax (from its current ceiling of 84K or whatever).

I want him to name names of HMO execs and CEOs and their outrageous salaries and tell us how he is going to put them out of a job by putting into place a universal single payer healthcare system (he already did that Sunday, but he should do it every chance he gets).

[picus9]

1. DK's biggest mistake is running in the first place.

I know there those of us out there who like what he has to say, but c'mon we need a reality check about this guy. He can't keep any of his promises he has made up to now, I don't mean that as any personal jab at the man, I mean it on a fundemental civic level.

The other day he said the first thing he'd do is repeal NAFTA. He can't! it's an international treaty ratified by the congress, I fear those who back DK are uninformed.

[redqueen]

2. How many times have we been over this?

I hope someone has a link to an old thread where it's discussed ... I sure don't have the energy to find it.

[picus9]

3. What is appealing to you about DK?

I don't mean personality, I mean his policies, I just want to know.

I mean, the guy bankrupted a city for Jebbas's sake!

[goodhue]

7. wrong

Cleveland was never ever bankrupt. It went into default. Again, this has been rehashed over and over but folks still ignorantly repeat factually incorrect anti-DK memes ad naseum.

[Tinoire]

14. So Picus

Just which Democratic candidate are you backing? Your talking points are a bit surprising and leave me to wonder how closely you've been following our candidates.

[genius]

16. The previous mayor bankrupted the city. The loans the other mayor

took out (which left the city in a bankruptable state) were only pulled as an extortion move to try to get him to sell the city-owned power company to a private corporation. I wouldn't want to vote for someone who could be black-mailed. He's a hero.

[genius]

17. DK's the hero who saved the residents of Cleveland hundreds of millions of

dollars. The people of Cleveland are voting for Dennis. So don't libel their hero.

[jsw_81]

59. Speaking of libel

Last week a Kucinich supporter told me that Dean was being controlled by "powerful Jews" and that Kucinich was the only real American in the race. Was that libel?

[cryofan]

62. Well, now that explains the

...two huge bodybuilders in yarmulkes I saw walking on either side of Dean the other day....

[Ficus]

74. yes

and I as a Kucinich supporter would have set them straight.

[Constitution]

82. So far Kucinich has been accurate in everything he's said.

So if he said that about Dean, which I doubt, then it is probably true.

[genius]

18. He could have a more effective campaign.

His campaign manager is just too inexperienced. He needs someone who knows what he or she is doing.

[diamondsoul]

25. Not at all true.

Dot Maver is an excellent manager, thank you. She knows what she's doing and she does a first-rate job at it, WHEN she's allowed to actually manage something. Some things she isn't given the power to control because Dennis has his own vision for how it ought to be done. I submit that Dennis and Dot each share a bit of the fault for problems, but I can deal with those problems.

I don't disagree that Dennis should be getting more "meat and potatoes" with the people he's courting, that's absolutely true. Even so, as a titled volunteer, I really HATE the continued assertion that the campaign had anything to do with publicizing of the internet date thing except opening the winner and Dennis up for press contact when they met. The campaign was in NO way responsible for the publicity up until the actual "date" took place, that was solely the work of Politics NH and done without any approval from the campaign staff or even Dennis himself. He was kind enough to live up to the promise made by Politics NH without his having agreed to it, and for that I say he should be commended for just being decent to the women who entered that ridiculous contest.

Dot Maver is not the problem and does not deserve to be fired.

[genius]

33. So why are so many Muslims who should support Dennis turning to Dean?.

Dean is more pro-Israeli and DK is the most neutral of all the candidates. Could it be that Dot Maver was involved in something that upset a lot of Muslims and caused many to switch from the best candidate for their cause to any alternative they could find?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[genius]

37. Dennis is fine. However his campaign could use improvement.

The question is do we want him to win or to sit back after he loses and talk about why he would have won if we had had the courage to discuss how his campaign could be improved?

[AnAmerican]

38. Why assume the campaign needs changes?

I am telling you, from someone who is very involved, that the campaign is stronger now than at any time prior. Things are all pointing in the right direction. I do want him to win, I have devoted most of the past 8 months towards that goal.

Iowa and New Hampshire will end up surprising alot of folks.

Don't be so quick to assume that Dennis will not be in this all the way through the Convention (and quite possibly beyond...his chances are no worse than anyone else's at this point).

[genius]

39. I've also worked hard to get Dennis the nomination and I also think

he'll be in till the end.

However, the campaign is not being run in a way that does him justice. I've seen a lot of major mistakes by Dot and they concern me very much. I want him to win and not just do well.

[revcarol]

4. NAFTA is just another treaty.

Five minutes after taking the oath of office, he could, by executive order, sign a document giving notice that we are withdrawing from NAFTA.And 60 days later, we are OUT of NAFTA, and have a chance to have bi-lateral trade agreements that benefit both parties and have workers' rights and environmental protections in them.

This is one of the powers of the PRESIDENCY.

I, for one, want to stop the Rio Grande from being a sewer from Mexican pollution.

If he says this is the first thing he will do, this is the first thing he will do. A man of his word.

[goodhue]

5. wrong

Maybe you should learn a little about treaty law before you criticize DK supporters. Treaties are entered into by the executive and confirmed by 2/3 vote of the Senate. But treaties can been withdrawn from by the executive pursuant to the terms of the treaty.

In the case of NAFTA, it is Article 2204: Withdrawal, which states that "A Party may withdraw from this Agreement six months after it provides written notice of withdrawal to the other Parties. If a Party withdraws, the Agreement shall remain in force for the remaining Parties."

This could be done by the president unilaterally without consent of Congress. So if Kucinich were elected US would be out of NAFTA by June 2005. But as Kucinich routinely points out such a withdrawal could be challenged as illegally under the WTO, which is why the US must withdraw from that agreement as well.

This has been rehashed ad naseum yet know nothings continue to belittle DK on this point. It is DK's supporters who are informed, others seemingly not.

[Mairead]

6. You should check your facts.

I'd start by reading up on NAFTA, specifically the 'withdrawal' clause.

[Tinoire]

12. I fear you need that reality check you're talking about

You may want to just sit back, read, observe, and discuss before making such sweeping pronouncements.

Do a little research into Presidential authority concering NAFTA and other treaties- that way you won't come off as needing a reality check yourself.

And surely Picus9, your first clue that he is not incorrect, should have been that none of the other candidates or commentators have brought your point up. I wonder why that is :shrug: Maybe they're all as uninformed as we are :shrug:

[redqueen]

15. Heh. They're informed, alright.

And they're keeping their lips zipped on the subject.

And that tells me all I need to know about their stance on the issue.

[adamrsilva]

31. DK is right about things, but totally unrealistic.

He says stupid things like "I'll be able to get the votes of conservatives because I oppose the Patriot Act."

[Nadienne]

32. Conservatives

(or at least, republicans)

Don't want government messing with their lives. The Republican party is the party of limited government. That's why they tend to favor lower taxes.

[revcarol]

8. He STOMPS all over corporate shenanigans,

promotes accountability to stockholders and to the public, wants regulation of corporations in the public interest...etc. ad infinitum.

But NO ONE will report this because he wants media reform, and they don't want to give up their golden goose.

Check his site http://www.kucinich.us for the list of groups he would send his AG after, for violating anti-trust laws.

He is the WORST NIGHTMARE to greedy corporations, and we wonder why he doesn't get press.

MY BAD: withdrawing from NAFTA is 6 months, not 60 days.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. Yeah, what all these people said

is why I've volunteered to be a precinct organizer for Dennis for the Minnesota caucuses, March 2.

[cryofan]

10. he should have NEVER given them the opportunity to talk about,,,,

...things other than his primary anti-corporate, pro-progressive, social safety net message. Of course, they want to marginalize him, but he never should have given them the chance by even responding to questions about his veganism, an internet date, anything have to do with alternative healing, or anything of that nature. He allowed them to marginalize him, and I say his campaign manager should be fired for it. DK should have a press conference detailing his new approach, etc.

[redqueen]

11. Not bad ideas

Call his campaign and tell them.

[goodhue]

23. well

I don't think the stuff you are complaining about comes from Dot but rather from Dennis himself. Dennis talks about whatever he likes and I doubt its a matter of letting him talk about this or that. Dot's great and does not merit firing. I concur that some more experienced campaign operatives would certainly be useful in Cleveland and Des Moines. But the campaign is truly grassroots, so it doesn't really lend itself terribly well to professional operatives. In any event, the glass is half full methinks.

[diamondsoul]

24. THANK YOU, Goodhue!

I was about to come to Dot's defense myself. People don't seem to realize Dennis is his own man and his staff are essentially advisors.

People, the bottom line is Dennis is NOT handled in any way shape or form. He'll listen, but if he disagrees, well, he's likely to opt to do things his way instead.

Now that's not to say he doesn't listen to valid criticism or reasonable explanations of why he should do or not do something, it's just that he's not likely to be swayed by doomspeak or imperative statements. Give him a reason and you've got a chance to make your case, but say "Dennis you should do this..." with nothing to back up the assertion and you may as well just not speak at all. He listens, but he has to be reasoned with, not commanded.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

20. great point..."He is the WORST NIGHTMARE to greedy corporations"

That is the main reason he is effectively ignored by the media. He is a threat to their system of dominance.

TWL

[OhioStateProgressive]

13. you do have very good points

I have stated many times that I wished the old impetuous Dennis would resurface

but the old impetuous Dennis probably wouldn't be recognized by the Dem party, just as he wasn't until 1996 when Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Dick Gephardt met with Dennis and decided to support him against Martin Hoke

[catherineD]

19. Yeah, the campaign manager is why I checked out the Draft Clark

movement. I made similar suggestions but it was clear others, including my fellow kucitizens, didn't see it that way. And the more I read about Clark, the more amazed and impressed I was. Hope you'll investigate him yourself, someday.

[cryofan]

21. a kick for firing DK's campaign manager

[AnAmerican]

34. Your entire argument is flawed.

Dot Maver is responsible in no small way for the success the campaign has had since she was brought aboard. No, she is not "professional manager". All the more reason I love working with her.

As far as your spouting off about things of which you have no firsthand knowledge. I cannot stop you, nor do I wish to.

Please, continue to expound and prove to all of DU that you really don't have a clue.

[cryofan]

46. This is not laying blame, not in the real sense, only in a media sense

I am sure she did her best, and I and all of DK's supporters appreciate her efforts, but the fact is that the media has been allowed to paint Dennis in a certain way. And the results are the poll numbers we now see.

It's about manipulating his image as presented by the media. By getting a new campaign manager, one who is NOT a transformational kinesthesiologist, or a feng shui designer, or a spirit channeler, etc (I exaggerate for effect, obviously) he may be able to depict his candidacy differently. And he may be able to connect with more voters using this new image.

[AnAmerican]

47. Well...you can wish

For Dot Maver to be removed, but I have to say, it is not going to happen. WHy would Dennis remove a person who has led the way in recent months. Months that have seen fundraising climb, campaign morale climb, media finally begin to pay attention. Dennis is excited about the race, his staff is, his supporters are.

You may not know this but there has been a huge difference in the campaign since Dot took the reins over. The change is palpable, the reason is that there is a renewed effort on everyone's part to win this thing.

Making snide comments about Dot is not constructive nor effective. Dennis hired her because he knows she can (and will) do the job.

Let the professionals run to the other campaigns. Dennis is different. I am a rookie to political campaigns, as is most of Dennis' staff and volunteers. We came together to support him. We (and Dennis) are running a campaign that is unlike any other that I can remember.

We don't rely upon highly paid "professionals" or "consultants" who would most likely try to cast Dennis as something he is not.

Dennis refuses to play that game in order to win. He will win based upon who he truly is. And he will win based upon the character of his supporters and staff. I consider myself extremely lucky to be working with these people. They are real, they are honest, they are determined.

It is because Dennis is not "just" a politician that he draws people to him who generally have not been involved in campaigns before.

I was working a Food Co-op before Dennis declared, others were housewives, retired individuals, factory workers, artists or "transformational kinesthesiologists". I for one do not care one bit what someone did before coming to the campaign. If they do their work to the best of their ability, I welcome them. As does Dennis.

Changing horses at this point is not only unwise, it is un-needed.

[cryofan]

51. "WHy would Dennis remove a person who has led the way in recent months"

No offense, but "led the way" to what, exactly? Except for one poll, DK's poll numbers have actually gone down since early in the fall. And that is really saying something, because he was only getting about 3%, and now he is getting 1-2%.
Those poll numbers are the results, and not much else really matters right now.

[AnAmerican]

54. Hmm

Must have missed national poll that had Dennis at 5%.

Polls aren't everyhting btw...neither is the biggest war chest.

What matters is votes....the first ones ares still a week and a half off.

People seem to forget that in the media frenzy of who's leading, etc.

You obviously have your opinion that the campaign is in need of a major shake-up. Sorry, but most supporters I talk to do not share that gloomy outlook.

[GregorStocks]

75. Yeah - that's why I'm in his campaign

And I'm only 13. And I have heard of at least one other kid my age helping out - becuase they BELIEVE IN HIM. And let me tell you, getting a thirteen year old to believe in ANYTHING, let alone something which seems to affect them as little as politics, is quite amazing.
</rant>

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. "name names of HMO execs and CEOs and their outrageous salaries"

Totally agree with your post 100%! Thank you very much, I hope DK is listening!!!

[cryofan]

26. I know that a LOT of people are listening.

about a year or so ago, I came up with the idea that there is a loophole for Bill CLinton to run for VP with his wife Hilary as Prez. THe constitution does arguably allow for such an interpretation. As my first post on DU (I think it was 1st), I proposed that he do so.

About a week or so later, I was watching CSPAN and Bill Clinton came on and talked about various matters. One of the things he talked about was my idea! He shot it down, saying it was against the spirit of the Constitution/Amendments.

[LuminousX]

27. Agree strongly on the campaign manager...

I don't agree about the veganism and the date thing though. He never shoved his veganism down anyone's throat. He wasn't making nasty comments about the ranch/beef industry or anything like that which would truly be a self-inflicted wound.

His campaign manager never capitalized upon his moments of greatness. After the Move On primary, DK's campaign should have had an intense focus on fundraising. I think DK's supporters were/are the most ready to be active. I remember here in Chicago getting flyers from only two campaigns, Dean and Kucinich. Among my eclectic group of friends, Dean, Kucinich and Kerry are still the top choices. I think the campaign manager just never knew how to run a national campaign.

[goodhue]

28. well

The move on primary was in June and Dot became campaign manager at beginning of September, so I think your critique is off base in that regard. I don't disagree that some things could have been done better but I'm kind of confused why this is being laid at Dot's feet rather than the candidate himself and the others he relies on.

[cryofan]

44. It is not a question of laying blame

It is a question of winning the presidency. And something has to be done. I see no indication of DK coming up enough in the polls. He is polling at 1-5%.

Campaign managers get fired or demoted all the time. It is often a question of refocusing the campaign partly by manipulating the media. It doesn't mean the person skulks away in disgrace.

But just getting a new campaign manager is not really going to be enough, anyway. There is really only one issue that DK can use to his advantage right now, and that is the one issue that no one in the Presidential race seems to want to touch: immmigration...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. the date thing is the first time he got any press

It was kind of clever I think, but he needed to take the opening and run with it - I'll give him a B for taking advantage of the opportunity. But cryo's right - he needs to connect with regular America's culture more, and forget about pushing "lefty" culture at this point.

[AnAmerican]

35. The current campaign manager

Dot Maver, came on long after the Move-On vote. She has only been aboard for a few months. She helped the campaign in ways you cannot understand. From bringing a can-do attitude tot he process and getting rid of people that were not doing their jobs to the best of their ability.

Here we are...on the eve of Iowa and New Hampshire. The campaign is strong, fundraising is up, morale is up.

Seems to me (someone who is working with her regularly) that she has done a very good job. I am very happy she is a part of the team.

The race is still going on....the voters will start deciding in a few weeks. Do not be surprised at the results.

[Desertrose]

42. I agree with AnAmerican...Dot is pulling a lot of stuff

together that we don't know about. The campaign is growing and learning very quickly.

Are there things that need changing/teaking...no doubt....it is a growing living changing thing of its own and especially as new people come on board and others move on.

I really feel some amazing things will happen with Iowa & NH...and then of course...don't forget Dennis has HIS own ideas about things!

I am proud that DK's campaign has a heart as big as Dot's in it. Dennis' campaign is really about heart...thats how he connects to get his progressive message out!! People usually understand when someone is coming from the heart...it makes a difference....


:hi: AnAmerican...hey,is Kevin there yet??
:loveya:
DR

[AnAmerican]

43. Hey DR.....Kevin arrived today

Glad to have him here :) I have heard nothing but good things about him.

[Desertrose]

45. Cool...yeah, he's special for sure

and he has a great deal of energy & input.....Glad he's there safe & sound. :)

Tell him we miss him & :hi: :loveya: for me...I need to connect with him sometime, too.

:grouphug: and hope all is well with you and ...........ahem :wink:

Peace,
DR

[iowapeacechief]

49. Raising expectations?

Or lowering them?

You said: "The race is still going on....the voters will start deciding in a few weeks. Do not be surprised at the results."

Meaning what, for Iowa and New Hampshire?

[AnAmerican]

56. My post was simply stating

Do not be surprised at the results in Iowa and NH, Dennis will be doing better than you think.

[spychoactive]

52. thanks for everything kunich kids!

i am sure we are headed in the right direction, i fail to see how DK would ignore any constructive criticism re: his campaign...

i'm just glad this thread stayed as positive as it did...again another feather in the collective cap of us kucinich kids...

dare to dream

vote your conscience

one love
spike

[genius]

73. LuminousX, if Dennis wins Iowa, will you consider switching and

supporting him?

[revcarol]

29. He should focus on what he is THE BEST at.

He is the BEST at:

--having a viable solution for the U. S. to get out of Iraq and leave the Iraqi oil for them.

--making corporations accountable

--the best for workers, better even than Gephart in some ways

--media reform

--universal health care(with CMB), that's care, NOT "insurance"

--domestic security (with Kerry)

--calling out the liars in the Bush administration(not as shrill & not getting as much press as some)

--the best for public education from pre-school through college

--the best for making sure jobs don't get shipped out, and for making corporations pay their taxes, not move to a foreign country to avoid taxes

--fairest tax plan, will aid these, our brethren in the lower and middle income groups

AND SO ON!!

[redqueen]

40. And we should focus on getting the word out!

Too many don't know what the heck he's about, or worse, believe the lies about him. We have to change that, fast! God knows the mainstream media won't bother.

[Rainbows]

77. Good List Add One More ...

He is the only candidate to warn America young and old about the coming 'Draft', if we do not bring our troops home. This issue alone if used well would enlist and register a lot of young votes, and maybe their parents as well.

[MaggieSwanson]

41. It's a shame that until Sunday's debate

you had never heard Dennis speak on the salaries of HMO executives. I can assure you, he has been doing it all along, but the media's blackout of him has made it difficult for the message to get out.

As to the "internet date thing", a website NOT related to the Kucinich campaign started a "Who Wants To Be First Lady" contest after Dennis' remarks in an interview regarding what he would look for on a first lady.
As an honorable person, Dennis took the winner out on a "date", but refused to turn the whole thing into a salacious TV event and stuck to breakfast and conversation.

[Thomas Jefferson]

48. You are very much on point. I too fear he could lose the nomination over

the way his campaign is being run and he deserves to win. I notice the ones with the strongest concerns seem to be strong DK supporters who are comparing what could be with what is. I may actually get flamed for this by some people on the same side who don't realize that this issue is the difference between his winning and losing and that someone needs to bring the problem to DK's attention.

BTW, what I'm saying is nothing new. It's already been said by other DK supporters here. It's pretty common knowledge and I've received the information on the complaints discussed below from people who quit the campaign because of a concern about the direction it is taking. To pretend that these issues don't exist and not figure out a way to solve the problem will only hurt DK's chances.

While his campaign manager has had some successes, she has cost him a lot of support and money. She has no national campaign experience and doesn't even realize it when she's damaging his chances. She canceled a speaking engagement with a very lucrative ethnic group at the last minute in a way that left most of the participants feeling insulted and suspecting that some kind of prejudice was involved. Dennis probably has no idea how much damage was done. Reportedly his volunteers tried to contact him but the manager reportedly isolated him from anyone trying to tell him about the public relations risks of the cancellation. Reportedly a great many people who attended that event made comments to the effect of "He's lost my vote." Additionally, one of the former paid DK staff members (someone who still has a lot of influence with the campaign manager) has made all kinds of statements to the volunteers indicating that the goal is not to win the Presidency but to influence the other candidates. It's obvious to anyone watching Dennis that his goal is to win the Presidency. He should make sure his paid staff is on the same page.

The campaign manager ignored and insulted hundreds of volunteers by approving the appointment of a coordinator who had falsely told everyone in the campaign he had changed his registration from Republican to Democrat and by effectively giving him authority over work the Democratic and Green volunteers were doing. He was appointed to handle an area that already had a very successful full volunteer team that he had previously indicated a desire to eliminate. The volunteers found out that he lied about re-registering and were mostly initially more upset about the number of times this guy lied than about anything else. Dot reportedly knew this guy had lied about being a Democrat at the time she approved the appointment. She was also reportedly aware that his background might reflect badly on the Kucinich campaign and could get the campaign into trouble and make it look bad. Hundreds of Democratic and Green volunteers who had brought people to events and who had come close to guaranteeing Dennis that county quit as a result of that move. Word is the volunteers are still working on their own outside of the campaign. So new people are continuing to hear about Dennis thanks to their efforts. Their issue is with the campaign and not with Dennis. The new coordinator (who has alienated the local Democratic Party) has had some successes. He's found a handful of strange people who are willing to do whatever he wants in return for appointments. These are also individuals who are frightening off new potential volunteers. People have gone to Kucinich club meetings and never wanted to go back, indicating that the meetings are more Republican in nature than Democrat. One person complained to me that some convicted felon called her house late one night with demands on behalf of the new coordinator and that the content of the phone call made her family feel threatened. The insanity of this is that Dennis is the most Democratic and the most honest candidate on the ballot and his campaign is doing a disservice to him.

In contrast to the Dean campaign which has trusted its volunteers to write letters to all kinds of people, talk show hosts, news stations and so forth on their own, the volunteers on the Kucinich campaign have been told they could not be trusted to write letters unless they were willing to follow prepared guidelines. There is a fear that people might not know how to write appropriate letters. Many people wanted to write letters to talk shows to encourage them to invite Dennis and were told "no" and that getting a million amateurish letters could only hurt Dennis. While Dean's a lousy candidate, he's not limiting his grass roots and preventing them from being grass roots. The Kucinich campaign needs to learn the importance of grass roots efforts from the Dean campaign.

Dennis would make the best President of all the candidates. He will probably do much better than expected in the primaries. But he could landslide to an enormous victory if he told his campaign manager to trust the grass roots, stop alienating large groups of people and remember that he is running for the Democratic nomination.

Dennis may not know how messed up certain aspects of his campaign are. Someone needs to tell him in time to fix the problem.

[AnAmerican]

55. Complete unadulterated crap

Let me disect a few really good examples;

"She canceled a speaking engagement....." No she did not. Dennis made that call due to a scheduling conflict.

"the manager "reportedly" isolated him from anyone trying to tell him about the public relations risks of the cancellation"

Dennis is not "isolated". He is very in tune with every day activities. He would see right through any attempt to shield him.
Let me count the number of times you use the word "reportedly"..3 times in one paragraph. Obviously is some is reportedly true, then it is true beyond the shadow of a doubt, right??

"Additionally, one of the former paid DK staff members (someone who still has a lot of influence with the campaign manager) has made all kinds of statements to the volunteers indicating that the goal is not to win the Presidency but to influence the other candidates."

Hmmm..private message me if you are so sure that this person (if they even exist) has "alot of influence".

Instead of tearing down in public what the campaign is doing, ever try calling the HQ to voice your concerns? Ever try understanding that the campaign is something much larger than any one person, a person who may be bitter because he/she did not do his/her job and was let go?

Before decide the campaign is not working try talking to folks still involved. Do not limit your conversations with what are in my opinion, malcontents with an axe to grind.

[Albert Einstein]

70. "An American," stop attacking the volunteers and Dennis

Volunteers are not employees and so they cannot be "let go." These volunteers, whom you seek to attack and call "malcontents with an axe to grind," are largely responsible for putting the Southern California Kucinich campaign on the map. These volunteers, which included individuals of all ages, devoted evenings and weekends to the campaign and some even took time off work. Many spent a great deal of their own money printing campaign literature because the campaign could not get them enough literature for all the volunteer work they were doing. They spoke to a great many groups of people about Dennis, tabled every available event and dug deep into their wallets to donate considerable money to the campaign that they could have used in their own lives. A couple of the volunteers passed out well over fifty thousand flyers. Instead of criticizing these individuals and putting them down, you should be praising their selfless work in support of Dennis with no expectation of any reward other than to see the person who had inspired them elected.

The unanimous decision to disband this large volunteer group did not come lightly. There was a major concern that certain elements within the local campaign had the potential to bring about major liability problems for the campaign and anyone connected with it. These concerns had nothing to do with Dennis but with the campaign.

Don't even try to blame Dennis for the cancellation of the C.A.R.E. event. This is not private. 20,000 very upset people were involved. None of the volunteers believed the passing of the buck. The man who stood up to the power company in Cleveland would never have been responsible for anything so insulting to the Muslim Community. The event had been scheduled with a V.I.P. within the Democratic Party four months ahead of time and re-confirmed within a week of the event. Dennis was the headline speaker and much of the printed material at the event discussed Dennis as the cancellation took place after all arrangements had been made. The volunteers who went (including some Jewish volunteers) tried to cover for the campaign but there was nothing they could do to help the situation. People very close to Loretta Sanchez were among those who were very upset and questioned Dennis's integrity and this is probably the reason why he lost her endorsement. Here is how the volunteers saw it. Two days before the event, the then Southern California Campaign Coordinator sounded the alarm that an Arab, who had donated $500 to Dennis in 1998, had been arrested and that it he would look bad if he attended the event or allowed the Muslims to throw him the fundraiser which had been scheduled and confirmed for the day after the C.A.R.E. event. There is no known connection between the arrested Arab and C.A.R.E. Loretta Sanchez, V.I.P.'s within the Democratic Party and the Sheriff didn't cancel their speaking engagements there. At the last minute, the word came down that Dennis had a conflict. According to third hand information, the people whose event he wound up attending felt he should have gone to the C.A.R.E. event instead. Regardless, none of the volunteers bought the excuse and all wanted to know what was really happening. None of them succeeded in being able to contact him to let him know how this could hurt the campaign. It is suspected that the former Southern California Coordinator, who is Jewish, may have used the arrest as an excuse to panic the national coordinator into "shielding" Dennis. One part that troubles a lot of volunteers the former SC Coordinator to a question about concerns regarding the risk of losing the Muslim vote. Her response was "Where else are they going to go?" The comment upset a lot of volunteers and is definitely not Dennis's position. Dennis would never have been behind any of this. Sorry, unless Dennis himself says he was in charge of his schedule that weekend, you are going to have a lot of trouble convincing any of the volunteers who were familiar with what happened that it was anything other than a big disaster brought about by his campaign staff.

[AnAmerican]

71. I would PM you but you can't recieve them

I refuse to have this discussion be fodder for others.

I stand by my statements. And, BTW, I was not attacking anyone. For you to say that I was is nonsense.

[diamondsoul]

72. And it well may have been,

but was Dot the final authority? Does Dot even manage scheduling of appearances? If you're so concerned then...

Ok, I give. Look you have a problem with Dennis or his staff, PM me. Seriously, I've had enough pussy-footing, I'll pass it on to the appropriate people. I skiped the meetup tonight as much as I wanted to go, because I had to contact my Mayor, Governor and House Rep. Some of those contacts have not been fun or even plesant.

I'm in a nasty mood, however if you contact me via PM I swear on my own life I'll do whatever I can to help you, even if it means I never sleep. I'm tired of the whining and nobody else is stepping up, are they? Support, hmmm?

[sandnsea]

50. A realist, not an idealist

I said that all along, his biggest mistake. Much of what he says is just straight-to-the-point facts. We have to have single payer sooner or later. We have to change our trade agreements. We have to have college educations to compete. Our military budget is astronomical and full of waste and hurting the country. This is stark reality. He should have run that way all along.

[spychoactive]

53. if everyone voted their conscience...

and stepped up for the candidate that presents a platform closest to what we all seem to be seeking, we'd all be kucinich kids, and it wouldn't matter how the campaign was run, because i hear SO many people say they agree with him on many, many points, more so than any other candidate...

i relish the thought of him debating the shrub one-on-one

join us!

what could it hurt to vote for someone you actually believe in?

one love
spike

[info being]

69. I share your love. I'm with you.

He would destroy Bush in a debate no none other could.

[tinanator]

57. whacked out fearful haters come together!

poor souls. I never felt so lucky to be me.

[jsw_81]

58. Kucinich is not a serious candidate and has zero chance of being elected

Period.

[iowapeacechief]

60. Not serious?

What's required for you to deem a candidate to be serious?

[AnAmerican]

61. Your post is not serious

n/t

[jsw_81]

63. Actually, it is

I've studied the voting patterns of virtually every state, county and congressional district going back nearly three decades. Trust me, Kucinich has NO chance of being elected president.

[no name no slogan]

64. In the words of the Dean supporters

"POOP".

Don't you have a Clark thread to pollute somewhere?

[Desertrose]

65. *snork*

I'm sorry ...that is tooo funny....

I've studied the voting patterns of virtually every state, county and congressional district going back nearly three decades.

and well....

Trust me, Kucinich has NO chance of being elected president.

sorry...I just don't feel your study of voting patterns makes you expert enough to trust...sorry...
:shrug:

good for a chuckle tho...
Peace
DR

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AnAmerican]

67. Trust me......

The only chuckling I am doing is at your absurb certainity that you can predict how the American voters will vote on a given election day. People have been trying to predict election results since, what, the very first election?, and 9 times out 10 the ones who predict with absolute certainty are left with a big load of egg on their faces. Welcome to the crowd of "I am certain.....".

And btw...I agree with DR...thanks for the laugh.

[Constitution]

80. I think Kucinich will surprise everyone.

I heard a rumor that two newspapers in Iowa endorsed Kucinich and that the Register endorsed Edwards. Is this true?

[Padraig18]

81. 1st question: No; 2nd Question: Yes.

[Desertrose]

68. honey, we are ALL in denial to one extent

or another...

No, I won't chuckle *if* Kucinich doesn't get the nom...but I will be damn sad and worried for my country cause they had a shot at someone who could have turned things around and we were too dumb/sleepy/lazy/blind - take your choice- to take it.

and BTW- Kucinich is no circus....what is your problem with him anyway?
(thats rhetorical- I'm not really that interested )

Peace
DR

[Padme Amidala]

76. His schedule needs to be more certain. The more certain

it is, the larger his events will be. Since the new national staff took over about three or four months ago, his appearances have been "maybe"s and subject to rescheduling. They should try to iron this out.

[Desertrose]

78. This is currently being addressed and...

hopefully in the near future it will be smoothed out.

It is very frustrating for those whoplan to have him and set things up and then are told it won't be happening...but such is the life of grassroots campaign volunteers. It would be nice if there was money for a private jet but when you have to book commerical flights, well, you are at the mercy of those schedules and sometimes you just can't make things happen.

I told Dennis once he needs to clone himself to be everywhere people want him!He laughed and agreed.

But there is a new field director so, as I said, things should eventually smooth out.

Peace
DR

[Constitution]

79. Hopefully you are not talking about the new Southern California

Field Director. He's the one who has caused all this concern.