I totally went off on two Republican women in a restaurant today.

[AndyA]

I had dental work done today, so I don't exactly feel wonderful, and while standing in line at a restaurant to take out food, two women in line behind me were talking about how scary things were with the economy right now. One commented she had never seen a time when things were worse.

Then the other said that John McCain mentioned that Barack Obama's statement that he might delay his tax increases was just proof of how damaging Obama's tax hike would be to the economy.

That's when I let loose.

I turned around and told them that they probably didn't like McCain's tax hike plan, either. They said he was going to lower taxes, and I told them, NO, he is going to start making people pay taxes on any health benefits they receive from their employer. And I told them to check it out for themselves if they didn't believe me.

Then I told them that McCain couldn't be trusted because of his involvement with the savings and loan scandal. I told them to look up info on the "Keating Five." Then I mentioned how McCain used his office to cover up his wife's misuse of regulated drugs, which she was stealing from her charity that she set up as a cover to hide her abuse.

The women were shocked. I told them they wouldn't hear about this on the news, because the conservative owners of the media in this country had been covering up for Republicans for decades, and that there is no such thing as the liberal media. It's all a fallacy.

I could tell they didn't believe me, so I asked them to name a liberal television anchor, radio host, etc., and they both named Olbermann. One of them also said Rachel, but I can't remember her last name.

Then I asked them if they knew of any others. They didn't. So then I said, in contrast to the two liberals we know of, there's Rush, Sean, Dr. Laura, Glen Beck, Tucker Carlson, Joe, etc., who are all conservative. Then I asked them how was it that the liberal media had so few liberal hosts, and an overwhelming number of conservative hosts. They had no answer for that one.

I told them they should research on their own instead of believing what they heard on the news, because it was propaganda and that the media's corporate ownership benefited more from Republicans in office than Democrats.

I left by telling them that the deregulation policies of the Republican Party, going back decades, were responsible for what we're seeing today, and that if McCain was elected it would be four more years of the same thing we're seeing now. Then I reminded them that on Monday McCain was telling us all that the fundamentals of the economy were OK, and that when someone finally told him they weren't, he changed his story. Just like he did about offshore drilling, and all the other things he's flip flopped on.

And I reminded them that his VP nominee is a documented liar, and that she continues to lie to our faces, even though it's been widely published that she's lying.

In the line several people back was a girl who was nodding her head in agreement, and one of the guys behind the counter said he agreed with me.

I don't know if it did any good, but it made me feel better. I'm so sick of Republicans!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. What a great rant!

K&R

You did just exactly right!

:patriot:

[FrenchieCat]

2. You GO!

I'm giving you a hi 5!

[Lefty48197]

3. DON'T GIVE THEM HELL!!!

Just tell them the truth and they'll think that you're giving them hell!

Excellent job, AndyA. Keep up the fight.

[tblue]

4. Good for you! I woulda done the same thing! We all should.

[HelenWheels]

112. Confront them

For too long the Dems have played nice. It's time we stand up and speak the truth. Good for you.

[Doremus]

5. BRAVO! We can't be silent any longer!!!

[fascisthunter]

6. Misinformed Folks who are Convinced their info is Legit

its's the ONLY reason the Republican Party exists.

[codjh9]

7. I love it, man! A big electronic high-five to you! I rarely let myself go at 'em like that.

[WCGreen]

8. A tip of the hat

and a place on the greatest page...

[liberal N proud]

9. The only problem, They will never check it out themselves

They are too lazy to check facts. They only listen to the talking heads and do what they tell them.

But it sure feels good to put the il-informed in their place.

[jazzjunkysue]

10. I did the same at school today: "The market would crash regardless of the party

in charge."

That's all I need:

"Actually, the republicans have hacked away at regulations, through their lobbyists, who are actually writing laws now, and that this was a deliberate, systematic, intentional plan to rob the market and trash the economy.

They knew the road led here and they ran down it, knowing this was at the end."

She shut right up.

[codjh9]

13. That's their pathetic response to criticism, complaints and truths pointed out re:

their side: 'everybody does it', or 'they're all crooked', etc. That's what my aunt & uncle will say if someone points out that a Repub. politician is a liar/crook. What a cop-out! (Besides it not being true).

[quakerboy]

22. The problem is that there is just enough cross over

to make it believable. 90% of R's are corrupt. Say 10% of D's are. Then, Technically, both sides have done it. At least, enough so to convince those who are uninvolved that there is no safe way to go.

I am hearing it from my family all the time now. They are still voting, but they have none of the enthusiasm that I would hope for from generally progressively minded people in the current age.

[codjh9]

86. Right - our side isn't totally perfect either. But I bet that the VAST majority of

political, religious and business 'leaders' who've been caught lying, stealing, embezzling, with prostitutes, drugs, or whatever in recent years are REPUBLICAN... and I'd love to scream that at my Repub. relatives.

[aggiesal]

89. I said the same thing to a lady in line at the store today ...

She wouldn't buy it, until I mention that in 1999 in
a partisan vote 54-44, the Republicans stripped any
regulations that were placed on the financial institutions
calling it, modernizing the financial institutions bill.

Sen. Byron Dorgan stood up in 1999, and said that this bill
will increase the chance that taxpayers will have to bail
the financial institutions out in 10 years.

He lied. It only took 9 years!!!

Then she said, "We need to drill for more oil. Haven't
you heard about supply and demand?"

I told her, it doesn't matter how many oil wells are drilled
there are only a limited number of refineries, that they
can't produce anymore gasoline. Beside, the oil companies
already have thousands of oil wells capped that they're not
using. Why do they need more?

She walked out of the store!

[ckimmy57]

99. Good God, we could

take out billboards in every damn city and state and they still wouldn'nt get it through their fucking thick skulls about the drilling. As my husband says, "you couldn'nt change their minds with a ball bat. All they know is drill drill drill.

[codjh9]

100. Give 'em hell. I'm tired of (too often) being silent...

[barbtries]

101. way to go!

that just made me laugh :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[LiberalFighter]

129. And we need to build new refineries is bullcrap...

cause the oil companies are the ones that shut down the ones they did have so they could operate with minimum number of refineries. It helps their bottom line cause then when they have to do maintenance or their are weather related conditions they can increase the price.

[aggiesal]

143. That's correct. ...

The oil companies removed about 100 refineries since the 70's (I'm guessing)
and don't have plans to build any new refineries.

This is a complete scam. When they want to raise prices, they
just shut down a number of refineries for maintenance.

[lostnotforgotten]

11. Excellent - I Wish I Was There To Back You Up

EOM

[ContinentalOp]

12. You're awesome! I just get really worked up...

and start rambling incoherently.

[barbtries]

102. my tongue ties up

unless i'm preaching to the choir or bitching in my living room. sometimes, arguing with loved ones. strangers, i shrink. wish i didn't but i do.

[progressivebydesign]

14. Good for you. You sounded as though you did it with respect.

I can tell because they were conversing with you.. not scurrying out as fast as they can!

today in a very liberal bookstore, one of the clerks was talking about how "someone told me the other day that scientists are working on a big new theory on global warming, and that humans couldn't have caused it, cuz we're too small!!" and that she "didn't know what to believe anymore" After my jaw came back from the floor, I told her that the person who gave her that info also believed that if they drove past Russia they'd fall off the face of the earth.. a "flat earther" I educated her on the 90% + scientists who agree Man is doing this.. and the handful of others have been paid for by the Oil industry. Luckily the other clerk chimed in to back me up on that. Scary shit when people are so uninformed.

[pipi_k]

87. Oy...we're too small, huh????

Well then I'll bet this person never heard of something even smaller than we are


these things can cause all sorts of mischief, like flattened cities, death and destruction beyond imagination, nuclear winter, etc.

atoms...

nahhhhh...they're "too small"



ugh. stupid people. I just want to hit them.


:mad:

[progressivebydesign]

110. ya, that was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard!! n/t

[donco6]

15. You go.

It's been way too long that these idiots have been allowed to believe this crap.

[DebJ]

16. You go!

[NewJeffCT]

17. Great job

I'm surprised they knew Rachel Maddow even.

[mwb970]

45. Unless they were thinking of Rachael Ray.

Was it around lunchtime?

[anneboleyn]

121. snort! "YUMMO!" n/t

[Raine]

18. Job well done!!!

:yourock:

[knixphan]

19. Of course it did good, are you kidding?

AndyA, I salute you!

:patriot:

[KathieG]

20. You did great! They hate facts...the truth hurts, glad you put it out there!

:yourock:

[vanderBeth]

21. I hope you got them to take a second look

at the FACTS.

[Muttocracy]

23. gold star for you! nt

[Owl]

24. Good on 'ya AndyA!

[MichDem10]

25. Bravo!

:applause:

[Cha]

26. This is not the time to stand silently by while

lies are being tossed around in the air.

Thanks Andy!

[Kahuna]

27. Bravo!!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[jimlup]

28. It won't flip the republicans...

They'll find another excuse to think John McSame is their savior. But it may move some undecided who hear the conversation. That's why it is important to keep your cool. Sounds like you definitely did. Great Job!

[Arugula Latte]

30. Right, you never know what will spark something in a person -- even a stray comment.

I'll never forget when I was a kid in California, about nine or ten years old, there was some proposition on the ballot in the mid-70s that had to do with funding more nuclear plants. The people in the town I lived in were basically conservative, and all I saw was "Yes on Prop. X" bumper stickers. Then, one day, I saw one loan sticker on an old beater car that said "No on Prop. X." I was surprised and I asked my Dad why someone would be against it. He told me that some people were worried about the environment -- the first time I'd ever heard that mentioned. That sparked something in me; I knew intuitively that the person with the "No" sticker was on to something, and that I'd been given a twisted, one-sided look at the issue. A few years later Reagan was elected, I saw through the propaganda about him and knew instantly that he was my enemy and I would forever stand for everything Reagan was against.

[1corona4u]

29. Good job!!

We do need to stay in their faces. If they are talking about it in public, it's fair game.

[sunnybrook]

31. go on with your bad self!

You should have a paid job in the campaign! Workin' it!:woohoo:

[jzodda]

32. +1 for you!

I love it!

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EndElectoral]

35. So much for GW's "ownership society" quote below

"We're creating... an ownership society in this country, where more Americans than ever will be able to open up their door where they live and say, welcome to my house, welcome to my piece of property. - President George W. Bush, October 2004

[TankLV]

152. Yeah - THEY keep the profits and gold, WE get the BILL and trash...

but WE "all" "own" it!!!

[XOKCowboy]

42. I see no facts in your post

If you know this to be the gospel truth then prove it. While you're at it explain why for the last 8 years all we've heard from Republicans was deregulate and privatize everything. What we're seeing now is the result of that policy. You can try to pin this on the Democrats but you guys have had the White House for the last 8 year and the Congress for the 6 of the last 8 years. This is YOUR crisis and everybody knows it.

[bikoman]

57. Facts

Fact: Fannie Mae and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac) own or guarantee about half of the U.S.'s $12 trillion mortgage market.

Fact: Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac gave loan guarantees to Countrywide and other lenders to provide low-income housing in impoverished areas which historically vote democrat.

Fact: Fanny Mae CEO Frank Rains pay was based on profits - he was paid over $90M while CEO.

Fact: Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac were out of control providing easy money through questionable loan purchases and making guarantees on bad loans from Countrywide and Washington Mutual and other lenders without regard to risk. Since Fanny and Freddy were willing and able to buy these stinky loans it enabled and encouraged the mortgage industry to take more risk and sell more and more creative loan packages to uneducated borrowers and speculators.

Fact: Bush and Republicans introduce bill in 2003 to reign in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and mandate federal governence and oversight.

Fact: This bill was opposed by Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and other democrats who feared a reduction in low-income housing loans to their constituency. From the NY Times article:

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Fact: The bill never got out of the Banking Committee as it was killed by the ranking member Chris Dodd in 2005.

Fact: Chris Dodd and Obama were #1 and #2 recipients of campaign contributions from Fannie and Freddy to the tune of 100’s of thousands.

Fact: Ex-CEO Frank Raines is now one of Obama’s economic advisors.

[Muttocracy]

60. Fact: GOP controlled Congress 1995-2007. Fact: Pres. does not introduce legislation in Congress.

[bikoman]

64. more facts

Fact: When a bill is introduced in the Senate it may be referred to a committee where they can approve it, they can modify it, and send it back to the chamber it came from, they can sit on it and kill it with inaction. This one was killed by the Chairman of the Senate banking Committeee Chris Dodd.

Fact: Chris Dodd recieved preferential loans for Countrywide Financial during the period when this bill was in committee.

[Muttocracy]

65. Who was chair of that Cmte in 2003 (the date you cited above) - NOT a Dem. nt

[bikoman]

71. what killed it

Correct - what killed the bill was the insistence by the democrats to set aside 5% of Fanny Mae's portfolio for affordable low-income housing - a provision that would be subsidized by the profits of Fanny Mae. This was unacceptable to Republicans who claimed a siphoning of profits would create an unsound business model. By this disagreement the committee was unable to come to a consensus. It was a bi-partisan failure to pass a Republican sponsored bill - politics as usual. Democrats and Republicans are unwilling to allow the other party claim credit for good, effective legislation unless it's weighed down with earmarks and amendments to benefit the constituency of their respective party. An the fact that Chris Dodd was a member of the Banking Committee at the time and the ranking democrat, who was recieving preferential loans from Countrywide, and was the #1 recipient of campaign contributions from Franny and Freddy didn't help create an atmosphere of common purpose.

The point is that McCain was a cosponsor of this bill and warned of economic disaster if no action was taken. The democrats focused on a small percentage of their constituency and decided that affordable low-income housing was more important than the big picture which you can see happening now before your eyes - a financial meltdown, recession and massive unemployment which effects all Americans.

[verges]

81. Back it up.

Provide links.
Provide evidence.
We need more than just your word on it.
That's the way things work around here. You have to prove statements.

[WinkyDink]

46. Along with 9/11, the Drowning of NO, and some crime somewhere, right? Why don't YOU look it up:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/23/business/23hedge.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Here's another newsflash:
The McCain campaign has also faced questions about the role of campaign co-chair Senator Phil Gramm as a McCain economic advisor.
As a Senator, Gramm spearheaded a massive effort to deregulate the financial markets.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5039253&page=2

Try re-reading that last sentence.

[Egnever]

74. right

one bill makes it the dems fault. Meanwhile.....

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-onthemedia18-2008sep18,0,123172.story

Bloomberg reporters Alison Fitzgerald and Christopher Stern found that Obama's record on economic reform was "thin" and that McCain now pledged to become a regulator although he "has spent most of his quarter-century in Congress advocating deregulation."

The Bloomberg reporters detailed how the Arizona senator supported deregulation of the financial services industry in 1999 while, at other times, opposing greater controls on derivatives trading and other measures.

[Gamey]

92. Even if the bill had gone through....

...there still would have been no meaningful regulation to avoid what happened anyway. From bikoman's NYT article:

"And it does not alter the implicit guarantee that Washington will bail the companies out if they run into financial difficulty; that perception enables them to issue debt at significantly lower rates than their competitors. Nor would it remove the companies' exemptions from taxes and antifraud provisions of federal securities laws."

[LiberalEsto]

109. quack

[LiberalFighter]

130. Troll

[EndElectoral]

34. Great !! Next time ask if they make< 250K,If so tell them Obama'll cut their taxes more than McSame

[obamacon]

36. Not helpful

I really don't think butting into other people's conversation to contradict them is going to change anyone's mind.

[TooRaLoo]

38. It does when they're given the opening to check into the facts.

Enjoy your stay.

[Vektor]

40. It is always helpful to school a misinformed Republican dumb ass.

And if the cold, hard facts don't change their "minds" then chances are, they never had minds to begin with.

[WinkyDink]

53. Better than slapping them upside their fool heads.

[Greyskye]

67. you're right

Everyone should simply stay home and eat marshmallows.

Public political discourse is for losers. :eyes:

[GoneOffShore]

95. Marshmallows and triathlons

A tasty combo.

And pizza. Cold, hard pizza.

[redqueen]

134. It's a civic duty. (nt)

[David Zephyr]

37. Good for you. Democrats have been enablers while Republican talk loudly in public about their cult.

Fuck them and get in their faces and the more we do, the more they will know that they'd better shut the fuck up.

[treestar]

54. Amen! We are sick of them using politeness to set the agenda

They use the virtues of the Democrats to take advantage. They turn virtue into vice and vice into virtue and then claim to be moral.

They know they are being rude by discussing it in public, because they know someone might disagree. Then they use the fact most people are too polite to argue to get a soapbox.

Jerks.

[WinkyDink]

56. Last election I was on a Casino bus to AC. Old guy starts loudly praising Dubya. I was NOT

going to sit for 3 hours listening to THAT.
So I turned and said, "9/11 was on BUSH'S WATCH!"

End of his noise.

[Muttocracy]

61. perfect. nt

[samuraiguppy]

39. Good 4 you!!!!

[City Lights]

41. Awesome job, Andy!

:yourock:

Hopefully the information you provided will cause them to look into things themselves rather than swallow what the squawking heads on TeeVee feed them.

[AndyA]

43. I really am fed up with people not seeing the obvious.

They listen to Rush like the words coming out of his mouth are straight from Jesus Christ himself! They are so willing to overlook the shortcomings of Republicans, but if a Democrat has a hang nail, well...they just aren't fit for office.

I'm sure the two women in line were very nice people, but I only hope one or the other of them remembers what I said, and will check it out for herself. I suspect she'll be horrified when she discovers she's been lied to intentionally. I honestly think the thing that had the most impact on them was my question as to why the "liberal media" had so few liberal personalities. If this were true, we'd have a lot more Keith Olbermanns and Rachel Maddows than we do Rush Limpballs and Sean Insanitys. I think that fact really made them start to think.

I wouldn't want anyone to risk a confrontation with people, as you just don't know what kind of a nut job a person might be, but I do feel we have to speak out whenever we can to let people know things are not as they've been told by the media.

I think the fact that I didn't feel good contributed to this, but I've seen a few long time Republicans in my red state turn Democratic over the past few years, and it shows me there's hope for some of them.

[ANewDawn08]

44. Is Guantanamo Bay the answer?

Okay, maybe it's a touch extreme, but there's a lot to be said for shipping all Republicans to Guantanamo just so sane Americans can live in peace. What do you think?

[a kennedy]

47. You go guy!!! (can I say that??)

Good for you, and doesn't it feel great to get it all off your chest!! You made me proud!! :hug: :patriot:

[Geek_Girl]

48. It sounds like you did a great job schooling them

I usually just loose my cool and end up sounding like an idiot.

[Mad_Dem_X]

49. Good for you! People need to be educated.

Some folks believe whatever Faux News tells them. If we have a chance to educate them with the truth, we should do so! :applause:

[krkaufman]

50. You seriously kicked a**. Great work. All irrefutable facts. n/t

[Vinca]

51. Great rant. Sometimes it just has to come out. nt

[harun]

52. I think you did great and should probably run for office (n/t)

[PassingFair]

55. Progress. At least we HAVE Olberman and Maddow now!

5 years ago, when I got into a drunken argument
with a Freeper over the "liberal media", I, too,
pressed her to name a "liberal news-person", she
thought about it for a minute or two and then
SPAT out...



"Katie Couric"!

[DangerousRhythm]

58. Hell yeah!

Awesome rant, and now if they are capable, they have something to think about. Someone has to shatter that carefully constructed "reality" sometime... glad you could do it so well. :)

[Rambis]

59. Our daycare person asked me....

If Bush was personally responsible for them losing all their retirement money in AIG? I said yes! It is John McCain and the deregulation hawks that got us into this mess. There is no oversight- I don't expect government to solve my problems and look after me but I do expect someone smarter than me to monitor the underlying financial bedrock of America.
This crisis has been coming and I am not expert but I knew this could not go on. Unfettered greed, corruption and huge bonuses come on! Something had to give-

[polichick]

62. Good for you! I've started telling people they'd have to be brain dead to vote...

...for those criminals again ~ that gets their attention.

[femrap]

63. Good for you!!!

Nice is over and we all need to speak up!

[nini]

66. I think we need to start carrying around that graph that shows the tax plans ..

.. and proves Obama's plan will help out people more.

Just shove that in their face and let them see if for themselves.

[Greyskye]

68. Posted outside my office cube.

I've opened the eyes of a number of people with this chart.

[DevonRex]

69. Oh, I just love you!!! Thank you. It's time we ALL started speaking

up instead of cowering.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

132. I know NO Dems who cower.

And we've been speaking up for the past 8 miserable years...

[redqueen]

135. You must not live in a red area.

Some of these people are not only hostile, but vindictive.

Vindictive as hell.

[Marnieworld]

70. You're my hero

I always get too emotional to be coherent and remember everything. That was phenomenal! :applause: :woohoo:

[pleah]

72. Bravo! They may not listen but, damn doesn't it feel good to at least

try to break through the shell. At least they blinked.

:applause:

[WillyT]

73. You Get Today's Harry Truman Award !!!

I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. - Harry S. Truman



BRAVO !!!

:applause:

K & R !!!

[Frisbee]

75. You sexist pig!

If you haven't learned from the McCain campaign that questioning a woman on anything, regardless of how right or wrong they may be, is sexist, well you just haven't been paying attention. I expect you to go back to that same restaurant at the same time every day until they return and you can apologize to them. The nerve of some people! :sarcasm:

[skooooo]

76. You go, Andy!!!

:bounce:

[bdamomma]

77. AndyA you did good

it is always amazing when you tell these people the facts they don't have anything to say. Most of them just don't know, sad, because those people who are in denial will be running to us.

[Johnnyheadstone]

78. I had a similar experience today...

Not quite that good, but a similar situation happened to me while at the tailor today....I also used to discussion about the economy to point out that I was having a suit tailored.....because I was looking for a job since I was recently laid off...

If we all keep it up (and great way to make the point about the "Librul Meedya" BTW!) then hopefully they won't be able to steal it this time....

Can we call them Rephucklicans yet?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

79. W00T !!

:toast: Cheers, for standing up for the truth.

[Politicalboi]

80. Good for you

I try telling my brother about what's going on but he gets his info from Faux Noise. Then he brings up Rezko and Wright and Ayers, Muslim (AKA) he's black. For the most part if people haven't seen the difference between the two by now they ain't gonna see it. There's still hope that some will see the light.

[DangerDave921]

82. Honestly -- it was none of your business

They didn't do anything other than talk amongst themselves. And you decided to go off on them. Sorry, I can't really get behind that. If I was standing in line at a restaurant with a friend talking between ourselves, and somebody up ahead in line started lecturing/yelling at me, I'd be like "get the f--k away from me."

[GoneOffShore]

97. If you don't tell them, they'll never consider any other point of view.

Hey, I don't like proselytizers but I like fools even less. And it hardly sounds like the OP was "lecturing/yelling" at anyone.

Besides, this IS America - We intrude on other peoples conversations all the time. It seems to be in our genes.

[DangerDave921]

104. Sure sounded like lecturing/yelling to me

Just like I would hate it if some RW fundie started in on me in public about how I need to find Jeezus and save myself. Keep it to yourself.

[GoneOffShore]

118. Whatever.

:eyes:

[redqueen]

136. Most people would appreciate being informed that they're being played for suckers.

Guess you'd rather be ignorant. Oh well.

[snake in the grass]

140. Normally,

I'd agree with you but in this case it wasn't like they were debating who has the better basketball team. The fact is, the Republican party is infested with criminals (real ones, not hyperbole) who are pursuing policies that will finish off what little is left of this country. With that in mind, it is not an option to leave them be, but an obligation to confront them at every opportunity. Are you willing to risk your future and that of your family for the sake of being polite? I sure as hell am not.

[DainBramaged]

148. Of course you wouldn't, and their bizarre opinions would be spread among the others in line

If you don't have the balls to step up to the plate and defend your principles, step aside and let others with conviction do it for you, but don't hinder free speech, that is why the Conservative media dominates the airwaves, people who stay silent while they pollute the minds of the weak.

[DangerDave921]

153. Great

So let's say you're sitting in restaurant eating dinner, and another patron decides to stand over your table lecturing you on Jesus and the need to save yourself. Would be OK with that under the principle of free speech?

Of course you would not like that. And why? Because you're minding your own business and the other person is being an intrusive ass.

[DainBramaged]

155. YOU are completely wrong

you don't know who I am, and if you did, you'd know I'd stand up and go toe to toe with idiot who tried to proselytize to me. And I interrupt Reich wing ass holes all the time.

Thanks for your assumption, but you made an ass of you not me.

[Cathryn]

83. You're my hero!

Seriously. So many times I wish I had the balls to speak up in a public place as you did. Great job!

[scytherius]

84. Very nice

I find that I no longer sit quietly. I speak up often and loudly. We have tolerated these people FAR too long. And there are many more of us than them. They ahve just been much louder . . . until now.

[truedelphi]

85. Thanks gretly. I wouldn't say that you went off on them.

It sounds like you were extremely detailed and extremely patient with them, enough so that they discussed your remarks with you.

When I hear people say things like they did, I just want to throttle them. So I admire what you did.

Even if you opened the doors in their mind, the big firewalls that most Republicans have erected to avoid hearing the truth, then you've done a good thing.

And you also provided extremely needed relief for the person behind the counter who agreed with you - they probably aren't allowed by management to passionately discuss all the inane remarks they hear.

[EnviroBat]

88. Republican = National Fascist Party.

It's time to get rid of them all.

[Barrymores Ghost]

90. K&R and drinks on the house!!!

That was a thing of beauty, amigo. BRAVO!!!

[jeff30997]

91. "name a liberal television anchor"

I'm surprised that they didn't name Oprah. :sarcasm:

[orleans]

93. maybe...maybe not

you might have just made them a little bit dumber

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4011775

"Bullock and others have also shown that some refutations can strengthen misinformation, especially among conservatives.


"Reifler questioned attempts to debunk rumors and misinformation on the campaign trail, especially among conservatives: "Sarah Palin says she was against the Bridge to Nowhere," he said, referring to the pork-barrel project Palin once supported before she reversed herself. "Sending those corrections to committed Republicans is not going to be effective, and they in fact may come to believe even more strongly that she was always against the Bridge to Nowhere."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402375_pf.html

[felinetta]

94. I Can Relate

I know I'm thoroughly disgusted with Republican crap and when I hear anyone try to defend anything any Republican says, I snap at them. I'm even shocked at how fast I answer back. I don't t give them a chance to say anything because I know it will all be poison and garbage. Enough!

[johan helge]

96. Good work, AndyA! (nt)

[barbtries]

98. GAWD i wish i'd been there!

high fives to you - i honestly don't think i would be that brave. that is GREAT.

[frylock]

103. knowledge is power..

good on ya!

[BlueKansan]

105. THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO CONVERT PEOPLE

You don't GO OFF on people -- espsecially when they are having their own conversation and you decide to butt in. You DO NOT GO OFF on people who think differently than you do! That's a surefire way to build walls between you and the other side.

You insinuate yourself into the conversation.

You ask why they feel the way they do.

You respect their opinion.

You share your opinion and let them know what facts back it up.

You let them know it's not always easy to weed through all the B.S. to get to the facts.

You tell tham about FactCheck.org and Snopes as places.

For God's sake, be respectful. That's what Democrats are supposed to do!

Leave the ranting to the Rush Limbaughs of this world.

[DangerDave921]

116. we are in the minority here.

I feel the same way. Someone accosting me verbally in a public place, uninvited, is most definitely NOT the way to make me think about your side of the issues.

I don't care how good it makes you feel.

[AndyA]

119. I disagree.

They were being loud enough that most in the area heard their conversation. Had it been obvious they were having a private conversation, I probably wouldn't have said anything, but that was not the case.

No one will ever be converted if we keep quiet. Silence is a form of approval, to some. I wasn't rude or disrespectful to them, nor did they get defensive with me in return, but enough is enough.

Your being respectful will force the rest of us to 4 years of McSame. Now is not the time to be tight lipped.

[BlueKansan]

137. I still disagree with your rant

You will never EVER sway people over to your side by getting aggressive on their asses. You finesse them. I don't care how obnoxious and ignorant they are -- you finesse them. You listen to them. You respect whatever they say, no matter how FOS they are. When you think they are in a mood to listen to you, then you tell them your side.

That's diplomacy. You were not in their conversation. They did not attack you. Your way was a preemptive strike. So don't be surprised that they didn't greet you with flowers and candy, and don't go bragging about how you told off some McCain supporters. You sound like Bush.

No one is suggesting we keep quiet. Look at our candidate, how thoughtful, measured and calm he is in the face of verbal attacks. Take a leaf out of Obama's book.

[AndyA]

154. We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

I've tolerated 8 years of Bush because of people like this. They've had a much larger impact on my life than I've had on theirs. I do believe I made progress with them. I think they're going to check on some of the things I pointed out to them. At the very least, I've given them reason to doubt some of what they've been told.

And judging from the other responses to this post, thankfully, you're in the minority here. Keeping quiet has allowed our rights and liberties to be removed from us. I made no preemptive strike, if anything it was a reaction to 8 years of abuse under the Republican regime. Now is not the time to keep our mouths shut. To do so is to put McSame/Palin in the White House.

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing..."

- Albert Einstein

Thoughtful, measured, and calm on our part will lose this race, which is why Obama is now beginning to strike back, and the 527s have been given the go ahead to run ads. We must confront those who would put the same people back in the White House for another 4 years.

You should be cautious at DU when making accusations like "you sound like Bush." It's not a compliment, and is borderline against the rules. This thread has lasted longer than the conversation it's about, so I think it's time to let it drop into the archives. I'm glad I did what I did, and I will probably do it again under the right circumstances. The price we'll all pay for our silence is just too horrifying to comprehend.

[lelgt60]

106. You did the right thing...they did the wrong thing

I don't know how loudly they were talking (clearly loud enough for you to hear), but I personally think it rude for someone to inflict their political views on others in a public place UNLESS they are willing to accept that someone might respond with a discussion. They know they're not in private.

It sounds like you responded in a totally appropriate and possibly beneficial way - both for them and for others that might have heard. Had you not responded, others would have only heard their side.

This is exactly what we should do, not as another poster suggested "get rid of them". Convert them and others around them.

[AZBlue]

107. I went off on a couple in the grocery store last week.

The woman picked up a copy of a magazine (can't remember which one) that had a picture of Palin on it and the headline, "What's She Hiding?" She repeated the headline, tilted the magazine cover toward me and laughed a little, so I figured she was no Palin fan. I responded, "With her? Quite a lot, I'm sure."

To my surprise she answered, "Oh no, not her. She's such a straight-shooter!"

To which I couldn't hold back: "Well, I'm sure she and McCain would like to hide the fact that she billed her state for 312 nights when she didn't travel any more than from her home to her office. And I'm sure they'd like to hide the fact that she abused her power repeatedly as mayor and then as governor. And they'd probably like to hide her support of aerial shooting of wolves, a practice 99% of hunters would like to see outlawed. And they probably don't want you to know that she actually did support the bridge to nowhere and is lying when she says she didn't. And that's just for starters."

Their jaws dropped and I went on with my shopping, feeling pretty satisfied.

[mehrrh]

108. two women

Good for you -- I hope it made you feel better. More importantly, I hope you made the two women rethink their positions.

[NikolaC]

111. Awesome Rant

They needed to hear it. It's sad how many people out there continue to buy the talking points regardless of what is happening in their own lives and right in front of their eyes.

[valerief]

113. Tres Rantabulous!

:rant:

[Hestia]

114. I just went off on somebody here at work too - he's been trying to get me to rent his house

a dump, and have been telling him no thanks, but he still drops by to say hi. I was watching the stream of Obama in NM, and this guy says, man the country will be totally off track if Obama gets elected. :mad: I practically shouted "HOW?" He said the military will stand down if he is elected and Obama will totally desert them...:mad: I said since the repug's have totally trashed this country, what we need is a 180, not more of the same; a totally different direction!!! He backed out of the door and said bye!

Man, I have started really correcting everybody, I don't care where I am! Enough of the nonsense!

[ailsagirl]

115. kick

[Shae]

117. Great job, Andy!

All you can do is plant the seeds and hope that they will reach a mind fertile enough to grow in.

:yourock:

[asdjrocky]

120. Nice work here Andy.

It's all about engaging people in the conversation. DU, and your own keen curiosity, has you well prepared for such conversations. Who knows? Maybe you changed a mind or at least plated that much coveted seed of doubt.

[biglefthander]

122. That's How You Do It!!!

"Agitate, Agitate, Agitate." -Frederick Douglass

Dont let the lies and factoids stand for one single second. Call them out, call them to account, call them to defend their indefensible ideas and policies. I salute you! :patriot:

[Barack_America]

123. That was one hell of a rant.

A lot of truth in there. You hit on almost everything. Very well done.

[The Backlash Cometh]

124. Are you small enough to fit in my purse?

[WatchWhatISay]

125. I had a little tiff of my own today with one of those knuckledraggers

Ike burned out our refrigerator thermostat, so we had a repairman in to fix it. I was watching Obama speak while he was fixing it. We'd had an earlier conversation about Italian ovens, which he advised against, so my husband and I figured he was probably a redneck, judging by his comments. When he went outside to get a part, my husband asked me to not get into politics, and I said I had no intention of it based on his attitude - it probably wouldn't do any good.

But then he said he didn't know why I was wasting my time listening to the stuff on TV (Obama's speech), I said "Why, don't you like Obama?". He said no, and then started off on some right wing rant right out of Limbaughland. I interrupted him and said, "Well, then you just need to keep it to yourself", but he didn't. So I repeated myself loudly and firmly. Finally he shut up, and I said "We dont have to put up with that sort of crap anymore."

After he left I realized that he surely saw my Obama poster on the refrigerator door, and he must have known better. I really felt invaded and offended to have someone spouting that crap off in my own kitchen. That's the last time I call that company.

[mnhtnbb]

127. I'd call the company and tell them you won't be calling them again. If they're

stupid enough to think McCain will be good for their business, then they can not have yours.

[mnhtnbb]

126. Good job! I'm sick of Republicans, too.

[PennDem]

128. Well done!

We must all speak out when given the chance. Do not ignore the misguided; stand up, state the facts and tell them to do some research. One by one, I've personally changed some votes by refusing to remain silent.

[RoccoR5955]

131. I wanna give you a "terrist" fist bump!

They got what they deserve. They are sucked into the propaganda, and have been made aware of what's really going on.

Great job!

[redqueen]

133. Well done, you.

:yourock:

[mmm413]

138. Kudos

[childslibrarian]

139. You go!

Good work.:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Mme. Defarge]

141. A true patriot --

Salud! :toast:

[KalicoKitty]

142. Good for you, Andy!!!

:yourock: :toast:




:kick:

[JDPriestly]

144. Good work. Thanks from all of us.

[LiberalHeart]

145. Did they order pork?

[Venceremos]

146. kick

[theodosis2]

147. ENJOYED YOUR RANT ANDY

A similar incident happened to me about the first week in Sept..
I was at my favorite cafe one morning, discussing my latest op-ed with some friends and my daughter who was visiting from L.A.. There were 6 biker dudes in a booth beside us. My kid was reading my op-ed out loud-"I especially like this part pops." She said, "According to a few right-wing talking heads, she was put on the ticket in hopes of getting the Hillary votes, the only thing she has in common with Hillary is a VAGINA. In my opinion she is on the ticket for distractions only, and will probably resign just before the elections. But before she could finish reading the rest of my article, a biker dude jumped up and said as loud as he could--"All my people will vote for McCain because he is a maverick and a bona-fide hero." He ranted on for about 10 minutes with his buddies cheering also; one of the bikers was notably silent and the big guy said. "what do you have to say Johnny?" He replied, "as you all know I'm a rascist therefore I would vote against a black person all the time." Everyone in the cafe began booing these bikers.
Finally i stood up and said, "let these dudes alone this is still a free country." then i asked the big guy this, "I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you watch fox news and uour favorites are insanity Hannity and Bill O'Liely." He sheepishly nodded yes, and I continued to explain the facts about John McCain's voting record his self-avowed heroism.
All these bikers were riding Harleys, and I wish I had excerpts from Obama's scathing speech when he tore into McCain's record on free trade, when John was a senator.
I may have convinced five of these bikers to research their hero a bit more.

[Venceremos]

151. Welcome to DU theodosis2

[quantass]

149. Did you let them know it is a TAX CUT not a Tax Increase (at least for the < $250K crowd)

[DeadElephant_ORG]

150. n...i...c...e

[jody]

156. Is that what Obama meant by "I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they

are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face"?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/17/politics/p185733D40.DTL&type=politics