NPR DEBATE - Live Thread

[janx]

Listening, anyone?

[Fleshdancer]

1. I'm right here with you Janx n/t

[brainshrub]

2. I am now. Here's the link:

Here is the link: http://www.npr.org/programs/specials/debate2004/index.html

[maddezmom]

3. I'm listening to NPR

but at the link I have it's the news. What link are you using?

[janx]

4. Wait a minute or two...

Just the usual news. Before the news, they mentioned the debate.

[maddezmom]

6. thanks :)

[Fleshdancer]

5. the debate will be on after the news report n/t

[Fleshdancer]

7. I can't stand that voice: "support for NPR....."

He sounds like he's burping the entire paragraph

[janx]

8. Here we go...Conan's on.

.

[creativelcro]

9. YUP. Clark declined... Another bad move

He figured the radio won't show his godly, martial, profile, so, why bother going?...

[Fleshdancer]

11. Why would Edwards skip??? n/t

[creativelcro]

12. Perhaps they are campaigning desperately....

person to person, kind of thing.... Dunno...

[janx]

15. That makes no sense to me.

But skipping any of the recent debates makes no sense. PBS and NPR.

[creativelcro]

18. I agree... They are not making sense..

But at this point they've got nothing to lose...

[janx]

33. I wish they were in on it.

It's a different audience, somewhat, but it's still a national audience.

[TLM]

102. I think Clark and Edwards are bothing running for VP now.

[Don Claybrook]

10. Streaming audio available

My local affiliate doesn't carry TOTN, so I'm listening online:

http://www.npr.org/
Then click on NPR Live Coverage of the Debate, near top-center of page.

[janx]

13. Interesting that they started out with Gep and Dean.

!

[Fleshdancer]

14. Constitutional ammendment for campaign finance?

I want tougher campaign finance rules, but should we create a Constitutional ammendment for it? Hmm. I'm not sure about this one yet.

[janx]

16. Yeah. That might be a little over the top.

!

[janx]

19. I kind of like this radio debate. Very different presentation.

The audio is very clear.

[Fleshdancer]

17. wooohoo Kucinich!

early education. Did you know that Bush wanted to cut Kindergarden programs in TX?

[creativelcro]

20. Lieberman go to hell!

Religious my ass...

[brainshrub]

21. Liberman sounds like a Baptist Republican preacher. (nt)

[Hoppin_Mad]

22. Liberman " The US is the most religiousely observent country on earth"

What fuckin planet is he on ?

[creativelcro]

24. Right... Why doesn't he join the Taliban ?

Religion and capitalism are opposites. No matter how you BS it...

[Fleshdancer]

23. I disagree Lieberman

It's not the discussion of religion I disagree with, it's the notion that only ONE religion (maybe two) are the only ones worth discussing in this country. If you bring a wide variety of religions to the public square, I'll be a big fan of discussing the subject on a national level.

[Fleshdancer]

25. no to star wars program. good Gephardt.

[Fleshdancer]

27. I agree Dean. Bush made big mistake by screwing UN

[Don Claybrook]

26. Gep sez

he'd get rid of programs to R&D/produce nuke weapons, and would get rid of Star Wars-type plans.

Not my favorite candidate, but good statement.

[creativelcro]

28. Whoo Hoo... No brainer...

[Fleshdancer]

34. Would Kucinich eliminate programs?

Military spending. Good one. I agree but we as Democrats need to explain how much we spend on the military and what exactly should be cut. To say we should cut military spending makes some people believe cutting the essentials...soldier pay, armor, etc.

[frank frankly]

153. that was great to hear

he was very clear that mini-nukes and star wars was TERRIBLE

good for you, dick!

[janx]

29. Dean and the U.N.

Rock and Roll!

[creativelcro]

30. DK: pentagon = corruption.

Could not agree more...

[janx]

61. Nor could I. n/t

[creativelcro]

31. Music?

[creativelcro]

32. WTF?

[janx]

36. Fast break or something.

I didn't understand it either.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

37. well npr doesn't have corporate commercials.

they are taking a break by playing some music

[brainshrub]

35. That's Dean on the drums & Clinton on the sax.

Kucinich was on the piano. :D

[creativelcro]

38. LOL

[janx]

39. HAHAHA!!

Yer funny!

[creativelcro]

42. Wait until after July 1st and all hell will break loose in Iraq

if the US pulls out...

[Fleshdancer]

40. Finally Kucinich is given the chance to elaborate on his plan

to get the UN in and the US out.

[janx]

41. Yep.

He did well with that one.

[creativelcro]

43. agree

[Fleshdancer]

44. Dean: al-qeada in Iraq now so pulling out would be too dangerous

Rove is driving the time table for the Iraqi Constitution.

[janx]

I love it when Dean makes fun of the Iraqi National Council--

the group we installed over there.

It's very subtle, but he's making fun of the fact that we practically hand-picked the members.

[creativelcro]

45. Geppy: WMD. He's in a tough spot

[janx]

46. YEP.

He sure is. He's dancin'

[brainshrub]

47. I feel bad for Gep,

but he's makeing excuses for supporting Bu$h on the war. He's a good man...but he should have known that Bu$h was lieing.

[Fleshdancer]

48. Gep: Everyone thought Saddam had weapons. (what about the CIA Gep?)

Now the intelligence is wrong? I'm confused.

[brainshrub]

51. He thought the Iraq war was going to be popular

and didn't have the guts to stand up for what was right.

[creativelcro]

53. I agree... He was the politician....

He has too many favors to give back... He's been there too long...

[adadem]

105. But

we don't know what those in Congress were given or shown that was classified...I give those currently serving the benefit of the doubt on this. They should be able to trust the intelligence they were given despite who the president is. This is not an apology for them but I think we need to be reasonable here...for those currently serving.

[janx]

49. CMB!

"...this admistration HAS no credibility..."

!!

[creativelcro]

50. Discussion on new polls

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56553-2004Jan5.html

[creativelcro]

52. Kerry, get a flu vaccine, man... :)

[janx]

54. Or a hot toddy or something.n/t

[Fleshdancer]

55. Pakistan. Friend or Foe?? Kerry: complicated.

assasination attempts on Musharaf (wasn't he the general who overthrew the Pakistani govt. in a military ku?)

"We can be tougher on Pakistan". I agree.

CMB agrees too.

[janx]

58. Good questions.

I like this.

[creativelcro]

60. Good debate so far.

[creativelcro]

62. Gep, say it: miserable failure

[janx]

64. It's about time somebody talked about Pakistan...

Saudi Arabia talk would be nice too.

[creativelcro]

66. Lieberman cut off... Audio degrading

[WillyT]

56. Is That Satan Gargling In The Background, LOL ???

Wassup with the audio???

:wtf:

[creativelcro]

57. yup, satan gargling listerine

[Fleshdancer]

59. Dean: Bush refuses to deal with N. Korea. N.Korea will do what

Pakistan is being accused of and is a big National security threat. (seems common sense to me)

[Fleshdancer]

63. Gep: Admin. did bad job stopping Saudi hate schools (I'm paraphrasing)

I agree with this.

[Fleshdancer]

65. Where do we get off telling others what to teach in their schools?

Interesting question.

Gep - because they're teaching/promoting terrorism. We need to take a hard stance against this. Good answer Gep.

Lieberman - Fanatic Islamic Terrorism is the most dangerous thing in the world. (how does Saddam fit into this Lieb?)

[ShimokitaJer]

69. Can you imagine a TV moderator asking that question

I'm really liking this debate.

Note to self: Lieberman seems to think all terrorists are Islamic

[janx]

74. This is not really a debate so far, but it's the best discussion

I've ever heard between these candidates.

[brainshrub]

75. I think this is the best debate so far. (nt)

[Fleshdancer]

77. I agree. this is an incredible debate!

[janx]

94. It almost makes you want to grab a cup of hot tea or a beer

and sit around with them.

[Kolesar]

89. Dear JOE L.: Global warming is the most dangerous thing in the world

Closely followed by petroleum overdependence.
Folks, don't miss the Zogby interview posted upthread
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56553-2004Jan5.html

[brainshrub]

67. Audio is garbly.

WTF?

[Don Claybrook]

78. Are you listening on radio or Internet?

I'm listening to the stream, and just assumed is was a comm. problem somewhere along the line.

Is the garbled stuff happening over the radio also?

[blindpig]

104. radio is fine in SC n/t

[Fleshdancer]

68. Kerry: we should have purchased all xtra nuclear stuff....

I agree

Kerry: Bush is not making world safer (understatement of the year Kerry!)

[adadem]

114. Kerry has said this before.

Would've been smart move when Russia needed the money. Poppy bush in power then.

[janx]

70. Dean - war WITHIN Islam...

.

[brainshrub]

71. Dean's comment about war between radical & moderate Islam is very astute.

[Fleshdancer]

72. Dean: have to make it economically worth while to not teach hate!

Don't buy their OIL!!!!! YES YES YES!

[cjbuchanan]

30 minutes in and this is the best debate yet

They are not attacking one another; they are actually talking about the issues and where they want to take our country.

They are all sounding great in this debate.

Go dems, go!

[Fleshdancer]

73. Kucinich: What kind of credibility do we have to teach PEACE? awesome

Teach peace through example

[brainshrub]

79. Kucinich is doing a great job.

Lieberman sounds like the reactionary he is.

[brainshrub]

82. Is Taiwan really a Democracy

in the classical meaning of the word?

[ShimokitaJer]

84. Sure it is

[ShimokitaJer]

76. Possibility of refusing to buy oil from terrorist sponsor states

Now THAT's an idea I wish I'd hear a bit more often.

[Don Claybrook]

80. Lieberman wants Marshall Plan for Entire Arab World

Funny, I thought we enacted the Marshall Plan after we defeated and took over Germany.

Hmmmm...

[janx]

81. Everybody's coughing for some reason.

Periodically you can hear someone cough.

[brainshrub]

85. I noticed that. *cough* *cough*

I think Dean has the sniffles. He should prescribe himself some drugs.

[janx]

96. Maybe they all got sick in the blizzard.

!

[Fleshdancer]

83. Taiwan wants independence. Who agrees with their right to do so?

Kerry: One China policy. Will not tolerate any invasion into Taiwan though. (not sure what he plans to do if Taiwan declares Independence AND China invades)

[Fleshdancer]

86. Lieberman: stick with our principles. No dependence for Taiwan.

[Fleshdancer]

91. Note to self: ask DUers WHY Taiwan Independence is a bad thing.

[ShimokitaJer]

90. That's a TOUGH question

And they're not doing to badly with it. I hate to say it, but I actually respect Lieberman's answer.

[brainshrub]

92. No! Absolutely not!

Unless we want war with China. But regardless of the threat of war...Taiwan belongs to China.

[ShimokitaJer]

97. Taiwan belongs to China?

How do you figure that? The one country-two systems myth is a ridiculous way of saying Taiwan is already independent in all ways but political recognition.

And everyone says they'll keep supporting the status quo.

[WillyT]

87. Lieberman Has A 'Marshall Plan' For The Middle East ???

Color me :scared: !!!

:nuke::scared::nuke:

[janx]

98. I'm tired of these WWII comparisons.

CAll it something else, Joe.

[janx]

88. Cue music...

.

[brainshrub]

93. Gep on the Cello.

[janx]

95. Uh-oh...tough tax question for Dean...

.

[janx]

99. Kerry's coming after Dean.

Dean calls it "with all due respect...hogwash..."

[janx]

100. Kerry's coming after Dean again.

.

[Demobrat]

107. Did he actually say that?

?

[ShimokitaJer]

119. Lieberman: "tax cuts, dammit!" Dean: "show me the money!"

But I'm paraphrasing here.

[zulchzulu]

101. Dean's tax increase is the death of hope to beat Bush

I say his plan is hogwash.

[janx]

106. We can look at it as repealing Bush tax cuts...

or as tax increases. It's like the glass half empty/half full, really.

[adadem]

129. We see it that way

but Conservative Dems, Libertarians and Liberal Republicans don't. We need their votes.

[brainshrub]

103. Why is Lieberman promissing another tax cut?

This is a tough question for Dean. Promissing higher taxes is what lost Mondale the election.

But Dean is doing a great job answering the question. He is promissing that Healthcare will offset the cost.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

108. yeah good reply by dean (nt)

[ShimokitaJer]

112. Lieberman's using the "repeal tax cut = tax increase" deception

I agree that Dean's doing a great job of turning the issue around on him

[Demobrat]

113. At least he's being honest

and not making promises he can't keep.

[BeyondGeography]

109. Kerry slammin' Dean on taxes

using real-world examples of how Dean's plan will cost real people real money.

Same thing Bush will do in the GE.

[creativelcro]

111. You can find as many examples of the opposite. So?

[zulchzulu]

122. Here's some examples of Democrats who wanted to raise taxes...

...while running for President:

Walter Mondale
George McGovern
Michael Dukakis
Paul Tsongas

There are some real-world examples.

[brainshrub]

126. And the way Dean fires back by insisting on a balanced budget.

Appeal to Americans sense of personal responcibility. It will rob the conservatives of taking the high-road of budget & tax issues.

[trogdor]

161. Well, Mondale insisted on this, too.

Had to mention that. Of course, we Deanies also like to hammer home Bush's willful disregard for fiscal responsibility, and turning a surplus into a deficit. Reagan had an explanation for what he was doing that people would buy (tax-and-spend liberals in Congress, the Cold War, etc.), at least in 1984. Bush does not.

[adadem]

134. You're right

Kerry showing why HD plan not good and won't lead to balanced budget.

[WillyT]

110. Notice How Kerry's Complaint Was Against Dean AND Gepahrdt ???

That was a targeted 'Iowa' answer I suppose.

:shrug:

[janx]

115. Kerry is using the term "marriage penalty" ?

Wow.

[creativelcro]

137. I agree with him on that.

The way it is now is just fair four couples. That is not a tax break, damn it. Why should a married couple pay more taxes than the sum of two people making with the same total income?

[adadem]

141. As an accountant

the marriage penalty drives me nuts...totally unfair to singles and GLBT.

[helleborient]

116. Thanks for the play-by-play...

It's appreciated.

[janx]

Dean's kicking backside by telling people that

you can't promise people everything and keep Bush's tax cuts.

[janx]

124. Kucinich has a pie chart!

"It's effective if Howard can see." Yep. He's right there.

Cutting pentagon budget...Dean says we can't cut pentagon budget now.

[BeyondGeography]

158. Dean can't say he'll cut defense

because he knows he's perceived as weak on defense.

[janx]

117. Kerry's coming after Dean again.

.

[Fleshdancer]

118. Economy and taxes. Dean first.

roll back on tax cuts, how can you justify this? Dean: need to balance budget, healthcare, special education. There was no tax cut for middle class because other taxes went up higher. Same taxes during Clinton admin.

Lieberman: Dean wants to tax cuts. Offers biggest break for middle class (according to him)

Kerry: Dean doesn't make sense. Dean adding to burden, not lessening it.

Dean: What John said is hogwash. Middle class gets better deal.

Kerry: People with health insurance can't afford Dean's increase in taxes.

Kucinich: Bush crapped on our economy (I'm paraphrasing obviously). damn, I missed the other stuff. :(

CMB: 80% pay more in payroll tax. burden in payroll tax has gone up. shift of burden from national to state taxes and fees.

Gep: respond to Kerry - we need to help everybody with health insurance. Kerry's policy gets a holiday from SS tax?? (not sure what this means)

Kerry: refundable tax roll credit on a one year basis. Reality - tuition, healthcare have gone up. To increase taxes, it just adds to all the increased taxes.

Lieberman - these are our people. they're hurting more ever. they need the tax cut, and need more. Lieb has additional middle tax cut.

Dean - some college plan

Kerry interups

Dean - balance budgets. if not, we will not have jobs and prosperity. we can't promise everything without paying for it...that's what Bush does.

[Fleshdancer]

121. Dean: bush made a 3 trillion dollar tax cut

[Fleshdancer]

123. Kucinich: we need cuts in bloated pentagon budget. has chart to prove it

[ShimokitaJer]

130. Kucinich brought a chart to a radio debate?

nt

[zulchzulu]

136. I liked DK's response

He hoped Dean would be able to see the pie chart.

[Fleshdancer]

133. Lieberman: bush passed tax cuts but didn't pay for them.

wants top 2% to pay for cut.

CMB: Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? No. Tax cuts benefits those who need it the least. We don't have tax fairness

Kerry: millions won't be better off tomorrow under Gep and Dean plan. Dean wants to balance budget in a shorter time than Clinton. We don't need to do this on the backs of middle class

[brainshrub]

120. Dean just slammed Kerry!

Amen! We have to balance the budget!

"Cannot have taxcuts w/o balanced budget!"

[zulchzulu]

125. Actually not...

Kerry smacked him hard.

[janx]

127. Well it's true. Most Americans know that.

We're broke.

[ShimokitaJer]

128. Dean sure is saying "I agree with Gephardt" a lot

It's enlightening to see where their policies coincide

[janx]

132. I think they're fairly close on taxes.

Not identical, but fairly close.

[zulchzulu]

131. Are CMB and DK holding hands?

:->

[janx]

Kerry keeps coming after Dean and Conan keeps cutting him off.

.

[zulchzulu]

138. Agreed

Kerry has to respond in 4 seconds to a tax increase issue.

[Fleshdancer]

135. what the hell did Kerry just try to insinuate???

[Fleshdancer]

140. Gep: Howard's stance on medicare won't allow us to beat Bush.

ummm, if we have universal healthcare, then what difference does Dean's position on medicare matter?

[zulchzulu]

142. Will Dean do that in his 9th year in office?

:->

[janx]

149. He'll do it during his ninth TERM...

HAHAHAHA!

[zulchzulu]

160. Why didn't Dean get asked about his religiousness?

[janx]

144. Gep can't be bothered with that.

!

[janx]

139. Oh man...Gep attacking Dean on the Medicare thing again.

...

Another break...

[Fleshdancer]

stupid argument. If we have universal healthcare, why is medicare

an issue?

[janx]

148. It wouldn't be an issue at all. It would be irrelevant.

But Gep has to say something...

[cryofan]

143. Did they ask dean about his switch to a liberal from a conservative?

I had emailed in a question for Dean about how he when he was VT gov, he was all for cutting back on social safety and not for further strengthening of the social safety net, and how could he explain his sudden acceptance of the democratic agenda. DID they ask him?

[Fleshdancer]

147. no

[brainshrub]

145. Id the debate over?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

150. they are having a news update nt

[Fleshdancer]

151. nope. it's two hours long. we're just taking a break

[ProudToBeLiberal]

146. can a moderator start a new thread

this is getting long

[janx]

152. Does a moderator have to do it? We really need one.

This thread is taking too long to load.

[adadem]

154. I'll do it NPR Debate part 2

[Fleshdancer]

155. I'll start a second one if no one has by now

[ProudToBeLiberal]

157. well usually a mod would lock the thread nt

[revcarol]

159. Lost feed.

Is it just my dial-up?

IMHO, Kerry zonked Dean. And they both have to listen to DK, reduce defense budget...that bit about soldiers not getting paid enough was low blow. DK wants to increase pay and benefits for AD & vets. Wish he's have answered that one.

[brainshrub]

156. I just created an NPR thread II

This thread is getting a bit long.

See y'all there!