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What Lincoln quote is Palin talking about? Someone help me out here. I think this may be a major

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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 07:53 PM
Original message
What Lincoln quote is Palin talking about? Someone help me out here. I think this may be a major
gaffe.

"Gibson also read Palin a comment she made in her former church — "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God" —and asked whether she thought the United States was fighting a holy war.

Palin said she was recalling Abraham Lincoln's words when she made the comment and said..."


And Gibson screwed up by not asking her what quote she was referring to.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. This one
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right”
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Well shit then she got it all wrong, because she implies that God is on our side with that statement
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Lincoln repudiated a "God bless America" theology
Repudiating a "God bless America" theology that ignored the nation's sins and culpability, Lincoln urged all Americans to reflect and repent. As Garry Wills emphasizes, "Lincoln mourned for the South, instead of denouncing it" and "mourned for the North, instead of celebrating it." As did many African-American Christians, Lincoln emphasized forgiveness and trusted that God was accomplishing his purposes in the midst of people's affliction.

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=2264&dept_id=581907&newsid=19297684&PAG=461&rfi=9

German soldiers in World War II wore belt buckles that read "Gott Mit Uns" (God With Us), but was he? Islamic militants who kidnap and behead Westerners claim to be acting in accordance with the will of God, but are they? Everyone, especially those who commit violence against other human beings, seems to claim to have the backing of God (perhaps in recognition of how wrong the violence is, they feel the need to have the highest possible authorization), but they can't all be correct.

Although it took time, other Christians in America came to the same realization as Lincoln. How could theology be rational and Christianity be reasonable if powerful, intelligent theologians could come down on both sides of the ethics of slavery? If the authority of the Bible were obvious and supported by nature, then wouldn’t it be obvious whether slavery were just or not? Whereas previously the truth and reasonableness of Christianity was simply taken for granted, questions about slavery forced American Christians to take seriously the possibility that they were wrong in how they understood theology, revelation, scripture, and their religion.

http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/10/31/weekly-quote-lincoln-on-god-and-politics.htm
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. No, she doesn't. Read it.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Palin misquotes Lincoln just as McCain and Rightwingers do
Lincoln rejected the idea that God was on anyone's side.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Exactly - that even in the Civil War it was likely God was not on either side, that he had his own
Edited on Thu Sep-11-08 08:51 PM by yellowcanine
purposes. So I will stick with my assertion that Palin is misquoting Lincoln. Besides, we don't actually know what quote she was referring to so we have to take the whole of Lincoln's statements on the question of God's will - and clearly in that context Palin is full of it.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. That's a good quote. humble. And has nothing to do with her arrogant statement.
She's uncoachable.
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Jay Landsman Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. John Edwards said the same thing in 2004
I didn't believe the quote when Edwards said it back then. See this thread for a discussion on the quote: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=257x8314
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Probably some muddle
about the Gettysburg Address the GOP doesn't want to offend the South with by going into the uncomfortable context

...or maybe she got Abe confused with Lincoln Rockwell.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. or maybe Elmo Lincoln, the first Tarzan from the silent movie era
Edited on Thu Sep-11-08 08:16 PM by aint_no_life_nowhere
McCain still raves about his performances in the early 20th century.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. I wish she and the other idiots that think themselves statesman
would remember this one

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1859), p. 376.

I think this may be what she was referring to and that is why Gibson did not push for more.

"The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party - and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Meditation on the Divine Will" (September 2, 1862?), pp. 403-404.

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noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. I sneer at those fundies who quote Lincoln..
they think he was one of 'theirs.'

Lincoln, altho he knew the Bible as literature,
never belonged to a church. He didn't 'get' it.
He was a wise man.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ummm...
She was NOT quoting Lincoln...these fundies believe it IS a holy war against the Muslim extremists...she's CHA...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. The great anarchist Bakunin had something good to say about Palin's GAWD
Jehovah, who of all the good gods adored by men was certainly the most jealous, the most vain, the most ferocious, the most unjust, the most bloodthirsty, the most despotic, and the most hostile to human dignity and liberty - Jehovah had just created Adam and Eve, to satisfy we know not what caprice; no doubt to while away his time, which must weigh heavy on his hands in his eternal egoistic solitude, or that he might have some new slaves. He generously placed at their disposal the whole earth, with all its fruits and animals, and set but a single limit to this complete enjoyment. He expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge.

We know what followed. The good God, whose foresight, which is one of the divine faculties, should have warned him of what would happen, flew into a terrible and ridiculous rage; he cursed Satan, man, and the world created by himself, striking himself so to speak in his own creation, as children do when they get angry; and, not content with smiting our ancestors themselves, he cursed them in all the generations to come, innocent of the crime committed by their forefathers. Our Catholic and Protestant theologians look upon that as very profound and very just, precisely because it is monstrously iniquitous and absurd. Then, remembering that he was not only a God of vengeance and wrath, but also a God of love, after having tormented the existence of a few milliards of poor human beings and condemned them to an eternal hell, he took pity on the rest, and, to save them and reconcile his eternal and divine love with his eternal and divine anger, always greedy for victims and blood, he sent into the world, as an expiatory victim, his only son, that he might be killed by men. That is called the mystery of the Redemption, the basis of all the Christian religions. Still, if the divine Savior had saved the human world! But no; in the paradise promised by Christ, as we know, such being the formal announcement, the elect will number very few. The rest, the immense majority of the generations present and to come, will burn eternally in hell. In the meantime, to console us, God, ever just, ever good, hands over the earth to the government of the Napoleon Thirds, of the William Firsts, of the Ferdinands of Austria, and of the Alexanders of all the Russias.

Such are the absurd tales that are told and the monstrous doctrines that are taught, in the full light of the nineteenth century, in all the public schools of Europe, at the express command of the government. They call this civilizing the people! Is it not plain that all these governments are systematic poisoners, interested stupefies of the masses?

God and the State (1871)
Mikhail Bakunin


http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/godstate/ch01.htm
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Lincoln? God?
-- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. I pretty sure
Sarah is pretty sure Lincoln was one of those founding father guys, ya know.
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