The supposed "big" story if picked up will work against us

[AllentownJake]

The media will come off as going on a witch hunt of Cindy McCain after she fessed up and sought treatment. Any actions done by McCain will look like he was trying to protect his wife from jail so she could get help and he looks like Sir Lancelot protecting Guieniverre.

The narrative will change into the supposed witch hunt on Sara Palin and the backlash will be that the media and the democrats hate women and will do anything to tear down strong smart women. Only a few % of women have to buy into that nonsense and its President John McCain. John McCain looks like a strong supportive protector and the media and democrats look like the dragon.

Let the story die. Don't push it. Its a giant trap for us.

[atreides1]

1. You're Right

Truth is far overrated, and it should be concealed every time.:(

[sufrommich]

2. It's a fifteen year old story that is political minutia

to all but political wonks at this point.I doubt you'll hear anything about it other than chatter on a small corner of the internet.DU was on def con 3 for this?

[Teaser]

3. EVERYTHING IS TRAP!! DON'T MOVE ANYONE.

It's all a trap. That's why we can't win. Because everything is a trap.
And we always get trapped. It's better not to fight at all. That way we're sure to win.

[Lex]

7. LOL. Freeze or we all die.

typical, eh?

[AllentownJake]

26. Sometimes its smart not to jump on everything

[Teaser]

31. oh pleez, this place counsels against jumping on anything

would republicans jump on this?

[AllentownJake]

45. The reality for republicans and our reality

is two different things. It doesn't take a PHD to figure that out.

[Changenow]

16. If Obama helped Mitchell conceal

drug addiction and narcotics theft, the Republicans would view it as off limits too I"m sure.

[AllentownJake]

19. We both know the double standard

Its mostly based on race and it sucks. Sorry reality is Michelle would be a junkie and Cindy would be someone who had made a mistake and needed help.

[AllentownJake]

21. Sometimes pushing something is bad

not all the time. Normally I'm all for pushing things. This story is not one of them.

[gateley]

4. I don't think it's a big story, and doubt if the media will, either.

There's no proof (documentation, etc.) other than a man's journal and opinions. It might get a passing nod, but there's nothing there to really sink their teeth into - so I'm thinking it would be short-lived.

[City Lights]

5. So obstructing justice to help his wife avoid going to jail is admirable now?

How many people are sitting in jail because they didn't have similar ELITE connections like McCain?

Fuck the hypocrites!

When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty!

[AllentownJake]

11. Doesn't matter

Protecting your mate is genetic. You can't unhardwire evolution with logic.

[treestar]

6. It will look like the McSames abused their position

And show that McSame will do the same stuff in the WH; just like Boosh, Darth and the others.

That he has no respect for the law but only for personal gain.

Any emphasis on cindy hurts him. She just does not look like a First Lady. too flashy.

[AllentownJake]

13. Nope

It will look like he tried to protect his wife to the undecided. Most men will say they would have done the same thing and most women would wish for a man who could protect them if they had a "problem" and would support them.

Its evolutionary and hard coded into our genetic make-up.

[treestar]

33. I can obey the law on my own

and if I disobey it, I expect to take the consequences. I don't expect some man to come and "protect" me by gaming the system or abusing his power in it. I don't see where I would be entitled to that.

Though your cynicism may be justified, when it comes to the average voter.

[onenote]

41. "Though your cynicism may be justified, when it comes to the average voter."

And that, in the end, is really what matters.

I don't think most DUers are saying it doesn't matter to them that McCain covered up Cindy's drug use and may have abused his power. They're saying it won't matter -- and wont' be seen that way -- by the average voter, who will hear something like: McCain helped cover up Cindy's drug use" and everything else will be just so much noise. They'll hear the lead and that won't sound so outrageous to them. They'll never get to the meat of the story. They hardly ever do.

[AllentownJake]

48. Yes and your on here

I'm not talking about you. Like it or not the phrase he "protected his wife" will play in alot of households.

[tandot]

8. I actually agree with you on this one.

Unless we have evidence that Cindy is abusing drugs NOW and McCain is currently abusing his position to threaten and silence people.

[uppityperson]

9. McCain breaking the law for his wife is fine? For some, perhaps.

[AllentownJake]

18. That's not the way it will be spun

He protected his wife so she could get help. You'll hear that over and over and over again.

[uppityperson]

23. Thank you for your concern. I am going to tell this story to my "undecided" friends and talk with

them about it. Perhaps they won't take his breaking the law, his abusing his powers so lightly.

[AllentownJake]

24. Fine and when they hear the other side

Don't be surprised when they pull the other lever and think your a jerk.

[uppityperson]

27. Which other side?That he broke the law, abused his power to

protect a drug abusing, drug addicted wife? When so many people we all know have had to deal with drug abuse effects, including sending loved ones to rehab and jail?

And they want him to run the country and think I'm a jerk for pointing out he broke the law, felt enough above the law to not have to do what he should have?

Not my friends. Thank you anyway.

[AllentownJake]

28. What other side is there to Sara Palin blatantly lying everyday

Yet we still get the presentation. I'm sorry there is reality of the media and the way we wished it was.

Other side he was protecting his wife.

3 words simple fore people to understand and sympathize with. Your complex arguments of laws will drop like a rock.

[onenote]

43. If your friends think the way you say they do, why are they still undecided?

[uppityperson]

71. They are actually repubs, trying to break away from voting repub.

They call themselves "independents" but aren't. They are looking for reasons to not support Mccain/palin and to support Obama/Biden. The questions surrounding 9/11 have been a big factor in this, not knowing who to trust since mrbush/etc has lied so much.

Every little bit against Mccain or palin will help.

[bunnies]

10. So lets not bring up the Keating 5 either.

Its even older... so... forget it.

A little lying, cheating, corruption and abuse of power never hurt anyone. :banghead:

[AllentownJake]

15. Keating 5 fine

He gained financially from that.

This looks like he protected the mother of his children. Sorry Genetics trump logic in this case and the people who you need to convince will not dig deeper than I would have protected the mother of my children from jail.

[bunnies]

20. So its OK to break the law as long as your "protecting" your wife?

I call bullshit. Further... he wasnt protecting her, he was covering his OWN ass. He got her a passport so she could smuggle drugs into and out of the country. Anyone else would go to prison for that. Its bullshit.

[blm]

12. Mccain has claimed for years he didn't know about it. If he didn't know about this serious a matter

going on in his own house, how can he be trusted with OUR HOUSE, our nation and the world? What happens when we have WH officials COOKING THE INTEL BOOKS to start war with Iran? Will Mccain not 'know about it' the way Bush supposedly didn't 'know about it' until it's too late?

[AllentownJake]

17. Sorry

This story appeals to our genetic wiring. You protect the mother of your children from threats. Logic won't help us with this one.

[blm]

22. And use your entrusted power to protect the lie? This story goes against what he claims about

himself, that he is willing to sacrifice his comfort and safety for transparency and accountability.

You're wrong. Many a family has had to seek the HELP of law enforcement to deal with troubled family members. Including my own family.

[AllentownJake]

25. Yes and if the media was fair

the logical version would come out but instead you'll have a "debate" where protecting his family is heard over and over and over again.

End result John McCain is a protecter.

[treestar]

29. Is it really that simple? There are other aspects being brought up here

Most of us do not get to break the law for that genetic wiring, we just suffer the consequences. It would be unfair if they get to "look good" for breaking the law.

I also don't think Cindy is very sympathetic. She's a wealthy woman and looks it. She's a homewrecker, etc. One's first impression of her is not as a mother. The thought of her as First Lady is pretty jarring; they've let Failin' look like the First Lady - remind people it's Cindy.

[blm]

46. And a working class mother with drug addiction would probably lose custody of her children in very

PUBLIC WAYS, and the GOP activists in that town would make SURE it was plastered in the news and claim it was Democratic policies that led to her drug addiction....like Gingrich did with the woman who drowned her children after years of being molested by her Republican stepfather.

[Butch350]

14. yawn...

[Waiting For Everyman]

30. Then why didn't Lancelot CHANGE the law for ALL?

There's nothing noble about that. McC was in a position to CHANGE it, and didn't. Why didn't he get healthcare funding for treatment instead of jail time? Answer: b/c it was only about him and his personal circle, and his reputation. Screw the public. Stifle the whistleblower.

It's elitist at minimum. It's personal use of power - that's the theme of the moment... Troopergate? And other firings?

Put that with the money issues... Palin's pork barrel and McC's lobbyists and Gramm's damage to the economy. Pieces add up.

[Hepburn]

32. Well....

....I am thinking this:

Everyone wishes to help a family member in trouble ~~ especially one who has a substance abuse problem. However, doing it in the wrong way by being co-dependant hurts and does not help the family and most certainly does not help the person with the substance abuse problem. Denial and aiding any addiction by covering it up is NOT a good value to inflict on one's family. It would appear that McCain wished to help his wife ~~ which, of course is a good thing. Too bad he was ineffective to the point of most likely causing more damage by covering for her...and too bad he had to do this by abusing the power he held as a U.S. Senator to do the cover up.

That is how I see it.

[AllentownJake]

39. Yes and your here

ask yourself what your attention span is if your still "undecided"

[Hepburn]

44. I have no clue what the attention span is of all undecides....

...I have two of those as friends and they both have different issues.

[DemocracyInaction]

34. So, I take it you all admit we are losing?

Come on...why are we grasping to find something..anything..and all the usual stuff I've heard from years about "stories" that are going to "blow the door off this thing". Our door got blown off. We can't admit it. None of these things matter as long as the sheep are off like a stampeding herd to see Ms. Superstar Palin. Yeah..we have problems and somebody better think of something a hell of a lot better than this blip on the radar.

[AllentownJake]

42. Its tied

and people are being stupid because they thought the GOP was going to roll over and die for them.

[NYC_SKP]

35. That's ironic. So we should STFU. THAT will show them! I say BS:

If he did wrong he needs to be called on it.

It doesn't have to be by the campaign.

Who's to say that our shutting up isn't just the kind of complicity they are hoping for?

I for one won't cooperate with this bizarro idea of letting the crimes just go quietly along.

:patriot:

[AllentownJake]

40. About this.

Yes we should shut-up. It does us no good and is to easily turned into 3 words repeated over and over again.

[liberalpress]

47. In a world

where the MSM were unbiased, people understood the issues and spinmeisters wpn't bend the story to make MCain a Hero for bravely protecting his family, I'd say push it.

In our world whee Democrats are so unbelievably Godless and evil that would smear a good Christian man like Brother John for nobly risking his career to protect the beautiful and faithful wife he adores...

Well, you get the picture

[goodgd_yall]

36. I'm not going to predict what effect this story will have on people

It depends on the details. What was the nature of the abuse of power? There is the sympathy thread in it---what would YOU do if your loved one was caught stealing medication---but then, on the other side is the interference with a law enforcement agency. How bad that interference was can trump the sympathy angle. I'm thinking of the undecided voters and the "leaning" voters---the effect on them. McCain's supporters will support him no matter what.

[amborin]

37. Concentrate on FACTS and ISSUES....they're KILLER

let the story go

it's a TRAP

ISSUES.....ISSUES...ISSUES


many voters are uninformed

[StopTheNeoCons]

38. I agree with Jake

this story is too old and too convoluted to gain any traction, I think the buzz about this story was over-hyped and should have been soft-pedaled rather than shouted from the rooftops as it was.

[rateyes]

49. He was trying to protect his political career. Sounds like he checked Cindy

out of the hospital against doctors' advice when she overdosed. Cared more about himself than he did her, IMO.

[progressivebydesign]

50. After reading more details, it's not about Cindy directly. It's Johns abuse of power.

That is definitely a story. I misunderstood the story, now I see that it's more about John's abuse of power and lust for control that drives this story and makes it more important.

If there is a coverup, and laws were broken, then I have no problem with it coming out. I'm tired of being afraid of our shadows, and I'm tired of posts warning us to back off. Since none of us know each other, we have no idea where these warnings are coming from...

[demo dutch]

51. but it's ok to demonize Michelle right????

[liberalpress]

72. Look

The diffference between us and republicans is we have a concience, a moral compass, a sense o right and wrong.

Sure go ahead. Anything to win, right?

Ot's winning that's important. Lie. Cheat. Steal. Fuck your friends. Anything it mtakes to win. If dear old Mom gets in the way, fuck her too. Winning is everything. Have to embarass and politicize your kids? It's OK as long as you win. Gotta kill somebody. Go ahead as long as it results in a win.

There's a word fpr people who think like that.

Republican.

[demo dutch]

76. laying nice nice, has not ever won us the presidency! and that a fact

[liberalpress]

79. I'm just saying

You can choose:

Be Republican if you want. I don't care. Me, I'm a Democrat.

[TheZug]

52. WATCH OUT--EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD IS A ROVIAN TRAP!!!!!

[WinkyDink]

54. I know!! I should have kept track of these posts.

[AllentownJake]

55. anything that gets us off talking about

Price of gas, state of the economy, loss of allies...is. Unless the magic bullet Alzheimers rumor ever surfaces.

[WinkyDink]

58. The electorate is not as averse as you might think to "trivia".

[Barack_America]

53. Still have to disagree. He yanked her out of a hospital when she overdosed...

(or nearly overdosed) to take her to a more "discreet" location.

That fact alone demonstrates that it was HIS best interests, not hers, that he had at heart.

Overdosing on pain medicine is serious business. She should have been left in the hospital.

[JuniperLea]

56. Bullshit

I'm tired of the concern. This is about John McCain abusing his power, period. I'm tired of being told to shut up. This story will not die.

[onenote]

60. this story died 14 years ago. Or last february. take your pick

Here's something from seven months ago that basically tells pretty much the same story, including the intimations of abuse of power. And its quoting an article from 1994. Even has Gosinksi's journal entries. Sorry, but this story is going nowhere. That doesn't mean that McCain didn't abuse power etc etc. It means that this story has been out there and has never gotten traction in the past and I doubt it'll get traction now.

http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php?topic=66574.0

[JuniperLea]

63. If it truly died, we wouldn't be seeing it again...

It takes on a whole new importance since this man is now running for POTUS.

[onenote]

66. how much are we seeing of it again?

Not much as far as I can tell.

[JuniperLea]

68. It keeps surfacing and then being scrubbed...

It is about JOHN McCain's abuse of power... Cindy's drug abuse is a secondary story, afaic. The abuse of power is the key issue.

[onenote]

69. and its still old news

Not saying his abuse of power isn't a significant concern. Of course it is. But the reality is that its been brought up before and it doesn't get anywhere and it won't get anywhere this time either. Its a he said/she said story with what will be labelled a "disgruntled ex employee" on one side and a guy who was trying to cover up to protect his wife on the other. McCain/Palin supporters won't give a rat's ass about it -- will claim he's the victim, just like they always do. VOters who know what kind of person McCain is and what kind of president he'd be -- they're against McCain already. The die-hard repubs are going to be with him no matter what. Those in the middle -- this story might make a difference, but its mostly going to be noise to them -- a headline about McCain, Cindy's drugs, his doing stuff to keep her nose clean. THey'll never make it to the second graph of the story where the details are. They'll stop at the repug denial and the "disgruntled ex employee" label. Sad, but almost certainly true.

[JuniperLea]

70. Being all "Debbie Downer" about it doesn't help...

We need to push, not sit back and whine about how things aren't going right.

[onenote]

73. not trying to be a debbie downer. suggesting we focus on what will work

rather than on stories that have been put out there in the past and haven't gone anywhere.

[siligut]

57. I agree

Without the media to drum it in and surround the story with negative connotations, this will go nowhere. Not like Ducacus’ wife’s alcoholism; did she really drink nail polish? How do we know that? The “liberal” media.

Nope, going to have to go a whole new route if we want to inform America of anything. And it will have to be a lot bigger than stealing a few drugs, years ago.

[Ichingcarpenter]

59. To quote Palin: 'THANKS BUT NO THANKS"

I question who 'us' really means.

[AllentownJake]

61. If you want to question my creds as a democrat or Obama supporter

I'd be more than happy to share them with you.

What are you doing for Obama?

[Aloha Spirit]

62. Completely agree. I would rather see the media get frothed up about the oil scandal.

From an entertainment perspective as well.

[glancingthefuture]

64. Agree.

[anonymous171]

65. THIS ELECTION HAS BEEN ONE BIG TRAP! OBAMA SHOULD WITHDRAW!

[NYC_SKP]

75. OMGZ...yure write!!!! TRAP RUN.......oooooo nooooo too late!

LOL

:rofl:

[flamingdem]

67. NOTE: Lots of "urgent" posts about this topic. Possible psy-op to distract from more damning news?

The way this is being orchestrated by some posters on this site seems insincere or at least very different from the way other stories have "broken" here.

[AllentownJake]

74. If you think I'm Psy-Ops

Than shame on you.

[R. P. McMurphy]

77. "I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat. " - Will Rogers

:eyes: Sinecure leans against the wall and watches the pie-fight.

[1awake]

78. I agree Jake,

Why do so many people here seem to have such difficulties to see things in ways beyond their own views and leanings. And its not a Rovian trap.. its one of our own making.. like so many others.