Biden supports “the second amendment and the right for New Hampshire residents to own guns”

[jody]

Biden Says Hillary Might Be A Better VP

After Biden received a question on gun control, telling the crowd that he supported the second amendment and the right for New Hampshire residents to own guns, Porritt emailed, “This ticket has the worst record on second amendment rights of any ticket in modern presidential history.”

Presumably Biden’s latest statement on supporting RKBA repudiates the Dem platform call to reinstate the assault weapons ban that is a bait and switch scheme to ban semiautomatic firearms.

Biden during the primary campaign said “I’m the guy who originally wrote the assault weapons ban.” It’s at the 0:55 mark of the YouTube clip below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9aIb-IplqY

Biden’s statement re RKBA follows Obama’s promise to Virginia voters, "I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I will not take your handgun away."

See DU thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7006499

[1corona4u]

1. And your point for posting this is?

It's a hot button topic, surely you know that.

[jody]

5. "hot button topic" and it's a divisive, polarizing issue that Obama and Biden are discussing in most

of their speeches and forums with voters.

[1corona4u]

10. Yes, and you could have put it in your original thread...

but you chose to start a whole new thread on it. Good point about them discussing it though. That's where it belongs, not here. DU'ers aren't the only eyes on the board, ya know?

[jody]

12. Biden made his statement today and Obama yesterday. n/t

[Redstone]

2. Was there EVER a politician who didn't pander? Especially to the Gun Nuts?

Business as usual, right there.

Redstone

[jody]

7. Some politicians pander to Gun Nuts and others pander to Gun Grabbers as you know. n/t

[appal_jack]

9. Upholding the 2nd Amendment is not pandering...

Upholding the 2nd Amendment is not pandering. Like all Amendments to the US Constitution, the 2nd is the supreme law of our land, and all public servants and other recipients of tax dollars have an obligation to see that Constitutional principles infuse the day to day operations of our government.

Authoring the Assault Weapons Ban was pandering (to a shrill minority no less: witness the Democratic Congressional losses of 1994), but I'll gladly forgive Joe & Barack for their past mis-statements regarding the 2nd Amendment. Given that they are saying the right things now, our job as citizens should be to hold them to their current promises.

-app

[jody]

11. "our job as citizens should be to hold them to their current promises."

:thumbsup: :toast: :applause:

[Mojorabbit]

35. You mean law abiding people`

who believe in the second amendment of the constitution?

[sandnsea]

3. Working for the opposition again?

:eyes:

[Tejas]

48. Still pushing Republican-based Brady policies?

Sarah, Josh and the rest must be proud of you.

DC lost the Heller case, get over it.

[gateley]

4. What was your reason for posting these links and this story?

Just curious, although I think I know the answer.

[jody]

See #2. n/t

[tularetom]

6. He's wrong about Hillary but right on about RKBA

I think Obama's campaign has wised up and started to back off their previous position.

[gateley]

14. He was defending Hillary after a person in the audience said some negative

things about her.

[TheKentuckian]

8. Gun nut here and I openly implore EVERYONE

to arm up.

The greatest deterrent to tyranny is an armed population, and we're on the wrong side of the tyranny.

A Democrat with a concealed carry takes off the bluster from these idiots.

[gateley]

13. IF I understand their position, we can have rifles, shotguns, handguns,

even semi-automatics, right? But no AK-47's or things like that. Is that accurate?

If so, are those what are termed "assault weapons?"

And if the OP actually listened to Biden's speech today, s/he would realize that Biden KNOWS the second amendment and has every intention of protecting peoples' rights under it. :eyes:

[jody]

16. Biden's position on RKBA is summarized at OnTheIssues

Joe Biden on Gun Control
• Keep assault weapons ban; close gun show loophole. (Apr 2007)
• Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
• Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
• Voted YES on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
• Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
• Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
• Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
• Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record. (Dec 2003)

[gateley]

17. Thanks -- but I need further clarification.,

Namely, what constitutes an "assault weapon".

[jody]

19. Please read the DU post below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7006499&mesg_id=7018565

[gateley]

22. Okay - sort of.

Can you just TELL me what constitutes assault weapons? I'm really not into this enough to follow the links and read the debates.

[jody]

24. OK, very short answer from H.R. 1022

From H.R. 1022

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.
(a) In General- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:
`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:

`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:
`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;
`(ii) AR-10;
`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;
`(iv) AR70;
`(v) Calico Liberty;
`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;
`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;
`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;
`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;
`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;
`(xi) M1 Carbine;
`(xii) Saiga;
`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;
`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;
`(xv) SLG 95;
`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;
`(xvii) Steyr AUG;
`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;
`(xix) Tavor;
`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or
`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

`(B) The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:
`(i) Calico M-110;
`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;
`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;
`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or
`(v) Uzi.

`(C) The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:
`(i) Armscor 30 BG;
`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;
`(iii) Striker 12; or
`(iv) Streetsweeper.

`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a threaded barrel;
`(iii) a pistol grip;
`(iv) a forward grip; or
`(v) a barrel shroud.

`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--
`(i) a second pistol grip;
`(ii) a threaded barrel;
`(iii) a barrel shroud; or
`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip;
`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).

`(K) A conversion kit.

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

(b) Related Definitions- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(36) Barrel Shroud- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.
`(37) Conversion Kit- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a semiautomatic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
`(38) Detachable Magazine- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.
`(39) Fixed Magazine- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.
`(40) Folding or Telescoping Stock- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.
`(41) Forward Grip- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.
`(42) Pistol Grip- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.
`(43) Threaded Barrel- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.

Note the bold text gives the Attorney General authority to ban such popular semiautomatic firearms as the Remington model 1100 with over 4 million in use.

[gateley]

27. Honestly, I really appreciate your effort and fully support your position,

but none of this MEANS anything to me. I don't know one gun from another --
But is this where the disagreement lies? Different opinions on what constitutes an assault weapon?

Okay. So in my tiny mind, I know there are handguns, including semi automatics. In know there are rifles and shotguns (although I don't know -- or need to know how they differ). THEN, there are weapons like the police and military have, which I'm lumping into the "assault weapon" category. Am I simplifying this too much?

From my perspective, citizens should be allowed to own weapons for self defense, hunting, etc., but not the "mow them all down" types that I equate with the police and military.

[jody]

29. I understand your dilemma. First "assault weapons" are not automatic, they are semiautomatic.

There are between 54 and 80 million law-abiding gun owners in the U.S. out of an electorate of over 200 million. Over 122 million voted in the 2004 election.

The definition in H.R. 1022 bans popular semiautomatic firearms used for self-defense and a myriad of sporting purposes.

The problem is some groups want to ban all semiautomatic firearms and have used not so covert bills later laws to ban popular firearms.

The original Assault Weapons Ban lapsed because those who wanted to ban semiautomatic firearms were unable to show that the AWB had any effect on reducing crime.

[MercutioATC]

32. Fully automatic weapons have always been restricted.

(fully automatic = 1 trigger pull empties the magazine.....semi-automatic = 1 trigger pull per shot)

What the AWB covers are semi-automatic weapons that look scary. They're mechanically no different than normal firearms used to hunt or target shoot, they just look different.

[MercutioATC]

28. An "assault weapon" is any black gun that looks scary to the average soccer mom.

Yes, the bill is THAT poorly written.

[Malidictus Maximus]

45. what constitutes an "assault weapon".

Kind of like what constitutes 'Good Music'. Pretty much whatever definition that suites the person advancing a position.
*MY* definition: A full automatic (fires as LONG as trigger is pulled) capable, rifle caliber weapon usable by a single person (as opposed to a 'crew served' heavy machine gun)
Other definitions:
-any rifle commonly issued to soldiers, FN=FAL, M16, AK-47 (NOT available as a civilian weapon)
-any civilian variant of the above, including and/or distinguished by features such as semi automatic operation (fires each time the trigger is pulled), detachable clips, pistol -grips or some combination of those.
-+Any semi automatic capable weapon
-any scary looking gun

[Howzit]

46. I think this may help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30

[appal_jack]

26. The AK's that citizens can buy are just rifles.

AK-pattern rifles available to regular citizens here are just medium power semi-automatic rifles. They are not particularly accurate (practical range of 100 to 200 yards: if I were to use one for hunting, I would keep it <75 yards given my limited shooting skills and experience).

AK's may look 'scary' to some, and most can accept high-capacity magazines (>20 rounds), but they are rifles still, not some horrible other class of weapons. I appreciate the design for its simplicity, its durability, and its practicality.

The results of the criminal or negligent misuse of ANY firearm can be horrible. I am a firm believer in gun safety training and the denial of firearms to violent felons.

When Joe Biden says that he will not attempt to take the rifles of peaceable citizens, he ought to know well enough that his statement covers civilian AK's just as much as it covers Browning A-bolts.

-app

[Citizen_Penn]

18. Well, what caliber will it take to halt an elephant?

just curious -

never bought a gun before.

[Hangingon]

36. I don't think that is much of a test.

The famous old White Hunter Caramojo Bell killed several elephant with a 7mm. Lots of British soldiers who went off to Africa after the Great War killed lots of elephants and other big game ruining their crops with surplus SMLE .303 rifles. What you have to do is be able to hit the correct spot and have the cods to stand there and do it. Elephant poachers use AKs to kill elephants simply because it is what they have. They have it because it is cheap. Professional hunters usually use a much larger caliber rifle. The guns costs thousands and ammo is very expensive.

[iverglas]

49. heh heh

[WinkyDink]

21. Because you just can't have enough gun deaths in the U.S., I say!

[jillan]

15. I know! Biden and Obama should tell everyone they want to take their guns away

so that way we could be sure to lose the election!!!!11!!!

What a great idea!!!111!

[LeftyMom]

20. Gun crazies and their threads go in the gungeon.

Bye! :hi:

[jody]

23. Why do you imply Obama and Biden are "Gun crazies"? They are simply supporting one of our rights

along with others enumerated in the Constitution.

[gateley]

25. Oooh. Slick. nt

[Blue_Tires]

30. i hope this gets some traction among borderline voters

because it's not like the nra won't still paint them as 'gun-grabbers'

[jody]

31. I hope it gets some traction among DUers who oppose RKBA that Obama and Biden support. n/t

[Hangingon]

37. I hope it gets some traction too.

The attitudes on this board worry me. Obama and Bidens can say anything now and change later.

[tularetom]

33. You gotta do a better job of 'splainin these terms

It's obvious to me that a lot of posters here do not understand the difference between automatic and semi automatic firearms.

A semi automatic: (1) fires one round each time the trigger is pulled (2) ejects the empty casing from the chamber after firing and {3} inserts a new casing into the chamber after ejecting the spent one.

An automatic continuously fires ejects and reloads as long as the trigger is held down.

Here is a visual that explains it better:

http://www.hunter-ed.com/id/course/ch2_actions_semiautomatic.htm

[GoesTo11]

34. If I wanted a Republican, I'd vote for one.

Stop with the Democrat apologetics. This is just responding to Republican libel. Don't even spend time talking about stupid guns. Talk about the crap they've been doing and will do to this country. Including their destroying any semblance of civic responsibility in presidential elections.

[jody]

38. Apparently you oppose the efforts Obama and Biden are making to win votes in swing states like PA,

MI, OH, FL by promising voters they will protect the natural, inherent, inalienable/unalienable right to keep and bear arms enumerated in the Second Amendment.

I assume you know that Bill Clinton, Gore, and Kerry have stated that the perception among voters that Gore and Kerry were gun-grabbers were major factors in their losing in 2000 and 2004.

Obama and Biden apparently recognize that and are reaching out to the 54 to 80 million gun owners in an electorate of over 200 million.

Obama and Biden finally got the message.

[GoesTo11]

39. I oppose the defensive posture of responding to R slurs

I also didn't like it when the Democratic senate kept passing Bush's war funding and whatever other nasty bills he wanted just to show that they love the troops. Whatever.

[jody]

40. Your statement "If I wanted a Republican, I'd vote for one" implies that it's not Democratic to

support the Second Amendment.

That's contrary to the 2008 Democratic Party Platform that says "We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans' Second Amendment right to own and use firearms."

[NashVegas]

41. Someone Here On DU Has a Link to a Blog In Their Profile ...

And in that blog, there's a post pointing out the holistic connections of all the rights guaranteed by the constitution. Taken as a whole, it points out, all these rights add up as an in-our-face reminder: The Government is NOT to boss us around. Too few people understand this concept that was laid down.

[jody]

42. Excellent point. The concept of natural, inherent, inalienable/unalienable rights is the only

protection a minority, even a minority of one, has against the tyranny of a simple majority of votes under a pure democracy.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

43. Biden is a good man. Quit stirring shit about him in the GE.

[jody]

44. What's your point? Clearly Obama yesterday and Biden today are dealing with a divisive, polarizing

issue RKBA that apparently in their opinion is important in swing states.

[Tejas]

47. You're not in Kansas anymore

I don't care if he's jesus-of-Washington, keep shoving AWB's in peoples faces and he'll get critcized for it.

[Top Cat]

50. I don't see what the problem is....

Biden reserves the right to change his mind... I'm confused what is your point?