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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:20 PM
Original message
Why I decided to support Howard Dean (long)
Hello Folks,

A friend wrote to me. She asked me why I had come out in support for Howard Dean for President. She has been considering her options and is not quite in anyone’s camp yet. Since she knew I only decided recently to support Dean, she wanted to know what “tipped it” for me.

This is what I told her:

The real thing I disliked about Dean in the beginning was that he wasn't Gore. I am still angry about 2000; it was a defining moment for me. After years of abuse, being labeled as un-American and immoral because I was a "liberal", to have such a perversion of our electoral system happen (and to watch the party stand by and let it happen and then blame Gore and say he shouldn't run again...to hear certain key figures in the party say it in public) was more than I could tolerate. For me nothing was going to ever heal that except that Al Gore, who I have admired since the late 80s, would be President.

I thought I could write Dean off. I saw him as a centrist (he is, kind of...more on that later) an unknown from a small state who wanted to be President. A particular supporter of his campaign showed up on the message boards at DU.com and annoyed the hell out of me. She talked about Dean in every discussion no matter what the subject we were discussing. I was determined not to jump on that band wagon. Then others, people who I liked and respected, came out for him and I wondered what they were thinking. They seemed to be supporting him because he was a "fighter". I thought they were looking for a big brother bully to beat up the mean republicans. I didn't want that. I wanted to beat up the republicans myself. I was angry and mean enough to do it and I was turned off by what I perceived were a lot of other people sitting bitching on message boards and looking for someone to fight for them.

As time went on I kept hoping some candidate would say or do something to spark my interest. (I didn’t to watch the debates, so how was I going to hear them?) I figured if no one did, I would go to the voting booth and vote for whomever was the nominee in November. I would basically just sit out the campaign. I was so depressed about the whole deal. After working to get Rendell elected, I couldn't believe I was going to just go along and not be involved. Finally Wesley Clark said something that appealed to me. I don't even remember what it was, but I thought "well at least he will be inoculated against the idea that bush is this great military leader. Maybe he can catch some swing voters with his image".

Then Al Gore endorsed Dean. I thought, "You have got to be kidding me. You want me to support People Powered Howard??? You know Al; maybe this is where we part ways. Maybe you really did always have lousy judgment. Maybe 2000 really was your fault... People Powered Howard, who do they think they are fooling with this slogan? Sorry Al, but Clark seems to be a liberal with the momentum and the image to beat bush".

Then I realized Clark was indeed image and not much substance. I wondered who was behind him. I wondered if he was a candidate looking for a party. I decided that was a chance I was not willing to take. He might be everything he says, but I have no way to judge and I am not comfortable with that.

So, loving Al Gore the way I do, and knowing my assessment of him and the 2000 election was not wrong; I went to Dean's web site. I read the articles and the blog. I started to realize that centrist (kind of) as he was, Dean was also a populist. This is a big deal for me. I admire populists. I don't know anyone who fits the category of liberal or conservative perfectly. Look at Kucinich, he votes against abortion rights all his life, changes that stance and then votes for the flag burning amendment and some bill which allows for trying children as adults? (Why Dennis?) I decided that I could live with supporting a Liberal/Centrist Populist and indeed be very happy about it.

I saw that when Dean says "look this legislation is not perfect, let's get this passed, we will fix it later", he means it and he fixes it later. My impression is that people may get mad at him and they may disagree with him but they trust that he means what he says. He is a social liberal and that is a good thing. He does have a good deal of support from the GLBT community because of the Civil Union legislation he passed. I believe Brian_Expat when he talks about his experience in VT during that whole period. I do not believe Dean was forced to sign the civil union legislation. I think he honestly re-evaluated his thinking and evolved as a human. This is what we expect from each other as human beings and yet we attack it in politicians.

I read this quote by Bill Clinton ....."I'd also like to say that whatever it is that Howard Dean knows -- or whatever it is that he eats for breakfast every morning -- if I could give it to every other Democratic office holder and would-be office holder, we would immediately become the majority in the Congress and we would have about 35 governors.
I have to tell you, I think a big part of it is just producing for people, actually doing what you say you're going to do at election time."-- Bill Clinton, 12 November 1997



Here is the big thing: When you sign up to work for Dean’s campaign, you immediately have something to do. You have an endless possibility of ways to get involved. You don't have to wait months for a campaign office to open. You don’t have to then try to get someone to give you phone calls to make or envelopes to stuff. You don't have to wait for a call from some 25 year old, with a brand new degree in Political Science, to ask you to show up as background for the next photo-op. When someone on The Forum asks you what you think, they give a damn what you say.

When I talk about this campaign having enthusiasm and energy like you have never seen before, I mean it. You see? I don't have to wait for or expect someone to beat up the mean republicans for me. I can put as much effort and energy as I can muster into fighting the Right-wing all by myself. It is up to me.

This Dean campaign is not “politics as usual”. It takes a certain type of person, with a certain type of courageous "all or nothing" attitude to stand up and say what is unpopular before anyone else says it. I am not talking about the way Lieberman says what is unpopular with democrats, to get swing votes, and figures we will have to vote for him anyway. I mean the kind of unpopular that is not about what is "right" or "left", but instead is about what is true.

I am not worried about "gaffes". If everyone was waiting to pick apart every word I spoke the way they do Dean/Gore/Clinton/Others I would have to go around with my mouth taped because I couldn't be elected to dog catcher. This game of “Gotcha” that some candidates are playing is ugly. Yes Dean "attacked" at the beginning during the debates. I didn't like it and I let him know. I doubt he ever saw my e-mail but I wrote. But when I think back there was nothing as personal and vindictive or destructive as what is being thrown at him now.

The thing is that he was right in what he said. We were waiting for a democrat to stand up and say “the Emperor has no clothes”. Gore said it, but he wouldn't run. Dean said it and he will run the kind of campaign Gore would have liked to run ("the people, not the powerful"), the kind Gore ran towards the end of his election. That campaign made Al Gore the winner, but we all know what happened in the long run. Dean’s campaign is the kind of campaign Gore would have run this time if he had not been (I am convinced) publicly and privately told he would not get any support from the party.

I too see a divide in the party, a struggle between the new democrats or DLC and the old time liberal wing. I see Dean bridging that gap. He may be a liberal/centrist but he is no “go along to along to get along” DLC stooge.

The recent attacks on him are mean and personal and WRONG. Where are the other candidates going with their rhetoric? It's “outrageous” that Dean says there was no middle class tax cut because we have lost more than we gained? It's “outrageous” that he is making a judge look at his office records and decide through the legal system what should be considered personal and private? It's “outrageous” that he said the courts should decide on the guilt or innocence of Osama Bin Laden? It seems to take very little to outrage some of these guys. The fake outrage, from other candidate’s supporters, on DemocratiUnderground.com has been ridiculous and it reflects the fake outrage of the candidates they are supporting. Their tactics have been, to me, reminiscent of the right wing.

I always wondered what my somewhat high IQ was for. It certainly didn't make me a good student. I have always struggled with higher math and science. I can't spell to save my life and I do not memorize names and dates without a massive effort. I am certainly no writer. For all the vocal talent I have and the ability to reach an audience, I am not a good musician. Any music theory I ever learned left my head within weeks of learning it.

But I am great at directing, teaching, performing and charming people (at the very rare times I feel like it). Animals and children love me even when I ignore them. I am all intuition and sensory perception. It's not what I would have chosen, but it's me. I guess this is the purpose for my intelligence, to know what to do with the knowledge or feelings I intuit. For instance: these characteristics makes me a good actor, director and teacher. I know what the actor, student and audience needs, I get sudden flashes of insight which tell me how to help them get where they need to go. It comes naturally.

That same intuition tells me that Howard Dean will be the next President of the United States (with help from us). My intuition tells me he is running the kind of campaign which is exactly right for the place we are at now. It is exactly right at this time in history. Yes, it really is "People Powered" hokey as that sounded to me at first. I perceive (as well as see evidence) that Howard Dean is growing as a human being and leader to fill a void in leadership that needs to be filled. I believe that the times do often make the man or woman.

His imperfections/faults are less than the sum of his attributes. I do not think that any of the other candidates has the particular set of skills or strengths needed to both win the office and to be President. Several of them have proven they do not have the guts or judgment to do the right thing when it really matters.

I could be wrong, but I have to go with my strength, my intuition and my sense. They have served me well more often than not.

Ches

To those of you who have bothered to read all of this, thank you.
Bash away! :7
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wonderful post ! Please post it to the Dean Blog !
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 01:27 PM by Hoppin_Mad
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed post - one of the best I've ever read on one person's personal journey of 'Discovery Dean'

Well done !

-edit spelling-
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. I am planning on doing that
I have no idea how to post it there. I guess I will find out.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was just fantastic! I agree that you should post it on the Blog! You gave me chills!
:yourock:
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. no need for bashing...many people are in your shoes...taking the time
to review the candidates and make a decision.

I'm reviewing the candidates as well (and do favor Dean) and want to help whoever I end up supporting.

It's going to take this type of effort to overcome the brainwashed people looking for TV to tell them "how to think".

It's going to be interesting.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Dean's Management Style is the Key
It's a bottoms-up populist campaign, not just a matter of rhetoric. That's what generated the excitement, contributions, and effectiveness of his volunteers.

It's right out of Theory X or Up the Organization. And it's unbelievably important.

Sometimes candidates change in mid-stream and believe they have to be front-office institutional types. I hope Dean does not do this. I think he's smarter than that.
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stinkeefresh Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I couldn't agree more. this is key.
I love the candidate, but I ADORE the campaign.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
73. Ribofunk, I don't think it is possible
I don't see the basic philosophy of the campaign changing. It really has not taken off in my part of Pa yet. I see a lot of room for growth and I am exicted to be a part of it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. No bash.
It was a good explanation for your feelings.

I just don't believe Dean's populism is real because he just opted to be one for this election.

I believe in longheld principles that have been well thought out over time as the strongest foundation for a person's character and trust someone who is not afraid to run on those principles.

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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. Like those of John Kerry, who loves offshore tax shelters?
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 04:18 PM by Scott Lee
Ooops, forgot. He's the tireless warrior against corpo corruption.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
70. Be truthful. It will set you free.
Sorry, your guy is the biggest corporatist in the race, but, smearing Kerry with a transaction he voluntarily cleared up in 1983 will never turn him into a corporatist.

Maybe you are supporting the wrong guy since you support someone who governed for 11 years as a corporatist. The outrage towards Dean's corporatism that you are holding inside must be choking you.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for writing this
it is a great read - and I now a lot of people wo agree with you 100%
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. nice post, Cheswick
I always enjoy reading detailed personal accounts of why someone has chosen a particular candidate.



Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. This part:
"My intuition tells me he is running the kind of campaign which is exactly right for the place we are at now. It is exactly right at this time in history."

This is probably the most succinct part of your letter. It is also probably the most prophetic.

Howard Dean is going to be a historic president. The very attributes that "scare" people about him are those that will serve him well.

Happy 2004.
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Pavlovs DiOgie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
69. You hit the nail on the head!
N/T
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. No bashing here, either

A very well thought out and articulate post detailing why you chose the way you did.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Excellent post Ches.....You really thought "this thing out."
And I applaud you for that Yes, Dean is the man that can beat Bush* and turn this country around.

Very good post.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Very well said!
Very much worth reading and rereading.
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Turkw Donating Member (521 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. you should be inspired by the candidate you support, good for you
I'm inspired by the one I do. The goal is to make this a better country and save it from Bush.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. Nicely said Ches.
You put your thoughts into words very well. While I came to Dean in a different manner (and as an Independent who had zero involvement in politics before 2000), I too, am sickened by Lieberman and Kerry at this point. What in Zeus's name are they thinking saying Dean can't beat Bush????? What will they do if he wins the nomination? Sit in a corner and cry? They both should be kicked out of the party. You will never hear a Republican say one of theirs running could not beat the opposition.

And while I know this would be political suicide, I wish Dean would just look Lieberman in the eye and say (in response to one of his wild lies) "Poor Joe. I guess you're pretty jealous that Gore endorsed me, not you."



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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sorry to disagree.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 02:31 PM by Skwmom
"Then I realized Clark was indeed image and not much substance." Oh that empty headed self-made man and Rhodes scholar. Clark is the real deal and a man of extraordinary substance.

"I wondered who was behind him." People fed up with politics as usual and looking for a proven leader to get this country back on the right track. People who consider integrity and trust more than just words to throw around on the campaign trail.

"My impression is that people may get mad at him and they may disagree with him but they trust that he means what he says." A lot of people I know have the opposite reaction. They don't trust a word he says. When someone constantly changes his position and is constantly dishonest, who knows when he is telling the truth.

"This Dean campaign is not “politics as usual”." Once you take off the "empowerment" wrapping, the Dean campaign is the same old "politics by deception" which is destroying this country.

"It takes a certain type of person, with a certain type of courageous "all or nothing" attitude to stand up and say what is unpopular before anyone else says it." Mr. Panderer? Who tries to imply his brother served in the armed forces when answering a questionnaire, who says he was always against the war when he is on the record supporting a unilateral attack against Iraq. Dean wanted to tap into the anti-war anger so he told them what they wanted to hear. But if you really do your research, you’ll see Dean was hedging his bets which is why he is on the record contradicting his “anti-war” stance.

"I am not worried about "gaffes"." What you call gaffes I call getting caught talking out of both sides of your mouth and acting like an angry little bully because he hasn't gotten his way. He is mean spirited and vindictive(hmmm who does that remind me of ….).

"This game of ??Gotcha” that some candidates are playing is ugly." So exposing the truth about Howard Dean is ugly? I call ugly unfairly smearing and lying about the other candidates. I call ugly the same old dirty politics campaign that Howard Dean is running. He didn’t hire Gray Davis’s dirty campaigner for nothing.

"Yes Dean "attacked" at the beginning during the debates. I didn't like it and I let him know." It doesn't seem like he took your advice. Dean is still attacking, and what you call vindictive and destructive I call doing an end run around the Dean campaign of deception and the corporate media to get the truth out about Howard Dean before the primary is over, NOT after. The Dean campaign describes Dean as a straight shooter which the corporate media repeats without question. I say the truth is a beautiful thing. I hope the other candidates set the record straight.

"The thing is that he was right in what he said. We were waiting for a democrat to stand up and say “the Emperor has no clothes”." We can't do it with a Democratic nominee that has no clothes. How are we going to expose the truth about George Bush and wake up a sleeping populace when the other side will be exposing the unsavory truth about Howard Dean?

The fake outrage, from other candidate’s supporters," My outrage isn't fake. I can't stand slimy, lying, hypocritical politicians. I don't care if they do put a D after their name.

"Their tactics have been, to me, reminiscent of the right wing." We have criticized the republicans and Bush for doing things that Dean has done. However, many Dean supporters still blindly support Dean (and this type of behavior is the same behavior we criticize Bush supporters for). In addition, the way the whole Dean campaign is run reminds me of Carl Rove tactics.

"His imperfections/faults are less than the sum of his attributes. I do not think that any of the other candidates has the particular set of skills or strengths needed to both win the office and to be President." After having to suffer through 4 years of Bush, we don't deserve a president that is the Democratic version of George Bush. If Dean was to get elected I guess people wouldn't have to tune into Jerry Springer any longer, they could just tune into Washington DC. There are MANY other candidates who have a better chance of beating George Bush (and not destroying the Democratic party at the same time) and who would make a MUCH better president.

"I could be wrong, but I have to go with my strength, my intuition and my sense. They have served me well more often than not." My intuition and sense have served me extremely well. I have a very strong track record and one thing I'm sure of, I'm not going to blow that track record based on my assessment of Howard Dean.

On edit. Bashing? What do you call "Then I realized Clark was indeed image and not much substance?" This reminds me of Dean - it's okay to say things about the other candidates but if you hit back it's bashing.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Are we talking about the same Howard Dean?
I mean--seriously--you cannot back up these claims:

A lot of people I know have the opposite reaction. They don't trust a word he says.

"This Dean campaign is not “politics as usual”." Once you take off the "empowerment" wrapping, the Dean campaign is the same old "politics by deception" which is destroying this country.
My response: People I know (in the real world, not DU) who don't back Dean disagree with his policies, they don't call him dishonest

However, many Dean supporters still blindly support Dean (and this type of behavior is the same behavior we criticize Bush supporters for). In addition, the way the whole Dean campaign is run reminds me of Carl Rove tactics.
My response: Karl Rove tactics--gimme a break. Dean hasn't launched any wars.

It doesn't seem like he took your advice. Dean is still attacking, and what you call vindictive and destructive I call doing an end run around the Dean campaign of deception and the corporate media to get the truth out about Howard Dean before the primary is over, NOT after. The Dean campaign describes Dean as a straight shooter which the corporate media repeats without question.
My response: The idea that Dean is a product of the corporate media is a huge stretch


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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. Yes
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 05:09 PM by Skwmom
"I mean--seriously--you cannot back up these claims:" "Take a stroll through the DU archives. Again and again and again Dean says one thing, the record says another, etc.

"My response: People I know (in the real world, not DU) who don't back Dean disagree with his policies, they don't call him dishonest." Many people I know in the real world think Dean is dishonest.

"Karl Rove tactics--gimme a break. Dean hasn't launched any wars." There are numerous similarities starting with dirty push polling against other candidates, having his campaign do the dirty work while trying to act like he has nothing to do with it (his trying to disavow knowing what gets sent out in his dishonest mailings against other candidates).

"The idea that Dean is a product of the corporate media is a huge stretch." Even the ABC Note (which has been one of Dean's biggest cheerleaders, has noted what a free pass Dean has been given. He states something and it's taken as gospel. He's a straight shooter, he will have 2 million people at $100 a piece and on and on. They are finally starting to expose the truth in bits and pieces but only because they are so certain the Democrats are going to play right into their hands and deliver Dean as the nominee.



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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. You cite no specific evidence
The burden is on you. Cite saying one thing and doing another. Cite push polling.
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picus9 Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. What about his Vermont documents???
Dean has attacked Bush for not being completely forthcoming with various things: corporate ties, 911 info, and Iraqi war. (I can find these attacks if you like, but they are fairly common Dean rhetoric)

How can he make those claims with a straight face when he pre-emptively locked all of his files away in some remote Vermont outpost?
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Thanks for helping me prove a point
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. If this was supposed to be a Howard Dean love fest
then the original post should not have made derogatory comments about other candidates. The Dean campaign (and it appears his supporters also) want to be able to slam others while getting a free pass.

Dependable? I guess compared to Howard I am dependable (but then again who wouldn't be considering how often he flip, flops and flips again on a wide variety of issues).
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. feel free to comment
I did say bash away. :7
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. you'll not be disappointed I see.
*yawn* Boringly predictable though, no? ;-)

Julie
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MaggieSwanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
52. Amen, skwmom! n/t
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think you are a pretty good writer
Nice work, Cheswick. Beautifully expressed and a pleasure to read.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. thanks C
I appreciate what you have said. I usually feel like I have to be the perfect host on my threads and answer everyone. I am going to try not to do that this time.

I do appreciate all the comments from everyone, in agreement or not!
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Welcome to the Dean Team!
I too supported Al Gore and was disappointed when he bowed out. It took Howard Dean 4 months to win my support and even after I signed on, I didn't realize what a superb candidate he was and what a super campaign organization he had. Dean does learn from his mistakes and evolves.

The final trigger that sent me to Dean was Dean's April 2003 op ed in Commondreams.org. He actually quoted Al Gore's Sep 23, 2002 anti-Iraq war speech, which was a great speech for us in the anti-Iraq war campaign.

When Al Gore called MoveOn.org to host his 2003 speeches, I had a feeling that Gore was testing out Dean's populist base. The last MoveOn.org speech Gore gave was great and he used a couple of Dean's signature stump speech lines in that speech and that is when I knew that Al was leaning Dean and would eventually endorse Howard. I just didn't know when Gore would endorse Dean.

As a former Gore supporter and current Dean grassroots leader, I'm psyched that both politicians I support are working together.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hi Larkspur
I was heartened to read Bradley's remarks today. I wrote this post yesterday. I was gratified to see that Bradley shares some of this same thinking.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. I confess, I am the one that asked
I also have another close friend on the board that was very much in Dean's court, still is, and has talked to me..I respect her opinions immensely.

I asked Cheswick because I was moved by the fact that she was NEVER solidly in Dean's court and had many of the same issues I had..that is the really poor behavior of SOME of his supporters and not just their poor behavior with anyone who DARES criticize Dean but their HORRIBLE behavior and name calling concerning Democrats with much more liberal credentials. While NONE of the candidates should be above criticism, the manner in which some will bash LONG term Dem's over SOME decisions and IGNORE their history, while embracing some DEM'S and IGNORING their negative history (ala Byrd) really bothers me.

I am MUCH more comfortable with the knowledge that Dean MAY win the nomination having had this exchange with Cheswick. I still have my issues with Dean but I know she came to her decision very carefully and with a great deal of consideration of the other candidates.

I don't have many criticisms of Clark and have now read his web-site, and do like his policy considerations.

I WISH Kerry would have started out on the right foot with a better campaign and frankly still support him as well.

My first choice, Senator Graham, unfortunately did not have the "sex appeal" one needs to raise the funds.

I am STILL bothered by the really poor behavior of SOME Dean supporters and their very OBTUSE debate tactics (if you can even call them debate tactics) but I have long said the left needs to harness the energy of their less reasonable, fanatical participants much like the right has used the anti-abortion fanatics to accomplish their ends.

I can think of at least TWO candidates who have figured out how to make use of this and Dean is one of them. More power to him. :D

Thanks, Ches...and more to the point...thanks for putting this in my INBOX..NOT as a post but as a note to a friend who really wanted to know.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. you are welcome
There has been so much anger and bashing. I admit to falling into the trap of being a smart-ass and coming back with snarky comments. I had hoped this would be a very different experience for all of us. But for whatever reason we seem to be on this ride for the next several months.
I can tell you that I know many good people who are just as upset with other candidates supporters as you are with some of us. I wonder sometimes at what will happen to DU when this is all over. There are several people in other candidates "camps" who I very much look forward to working with when we finally have one candidate.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. If the behavior of *some* Dean supporters is a big issue to you,
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 03:49 PM by Lisa0825
then how do you feel about others when you see Dean and his supporters being bashed by them here as well? I like both Dean AND Clark (though Dean is my #1), and I won't judge either one by any supporter. I do get angrier when I see some anti-Dean posts by Clark supporters than vice versa, because I favor Dean, and probably notice those more easily, but I honestly made a conscious decision not to let that interfere with what I felt about Clark himself. In addition, as I hope some people have noticed, I have often popped into Clark posts, and made complimentary posts, and have also posted my frustration when I see a Dean supporter bash Clark. I think actually that more Dean supporters like Clark than the other way around, so I would bet we bear the brunt of the anger more than ya'll do.

I'd just like for the Dean and Clark camps to get along better, because whatever happens, we're going to need each other eventually.

JMO, no offense intended.
:hippie:
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I really hate all the vitriol
legitimate questions on a cadidate's past and policies are fair game, but I think many DU'ers do not see the forest for the trees.

I would not be the LEAST surprised no matter WHO gets the nomination to see propaganda used against our nominee that was created right here at DU.

I've been pretty consistent on the matter.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks Cheswick for sharing that. I think you express what many of us
have gone through, not knowing where to go after Gore. And, in particular, your experience about trying to work on other campaigns where you wait for someone to phone you for weeks or get called by a 25 year old poly sci graduate asking you to participate in a phot op!

I just went through that where I live with a candidate. We have been left out by our Party Machine. I had such a bad experience in the 02 Mid-terms I really didn't want to participate again except in the ways I do it through DU, on my own with e-mail, fax phoning.

I think what Dean has done is channeled an energy that's been looking for an outlet. The "Machine" that didn't support Gore has gotten a wake up call. Dean isn't my "Dream Candidate." But, I think he's got the guts and inner strength of character to survive the dirt that will be thrown at him and his campaign. His folks seem to have learned from what happened with Gore... and,they started early and have been better organized. I think he will make it...but the Repugs will make what Gore went through seem like a tea party before it's all over. They've gotten stronger and meaner since 2000. It's going to be a "bumpy ride" to quote Betty Davis!


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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. I always respect others who
think about their candidates and support their candidates for good reasons. I obviously came to a quite different conclusion so it's interesting to learn what a Dean supporter sees in him. Thanks for the insight.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
25. Why my opinion of Dean has recently changed..
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 03:45 PM by flaminbats
When Dean began his campaign it was centered on the idea of populist driven politics. But Dean also had not yet been infected with this tax-cut frenzy, which is destroying the very heart and soul of our party. He was the candidate with the best health-care program IMHO. And although he opposed the war, he saw our need to repair the damage our nation had done by first supporting Saddamn..and later while taking him out of power. Dean really got my hopes up with his very thoughtful health-care plan, and proposal for a commission to look into abolishing the Electoral College..and supporting IRV.

If Dean backs away from this plan to destroy Social Security and his opposition to cuts in military waste, I will gladly join his campaign. But if he insists on slashing the payroll tax when our nation has a half-trillion dollar deficit and just a few years before the babyboomers begin retiring..this is something which I must carefully reconsider.

Cutting the payroll tax will ultimately make Social Security more vulnerable to even greater cuts in benefits and eventually to the privatization frenzy. It will hurt those seeking to earn Social Security credits needed for disability or retirement, and I shall oppose any who propose this, regardless of their partisan affiliation!
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. You really should go to Dean's website and read his positions
Dean has no intention of destroying Social Security. As for the military budget, Dean doesn't want to cut the budget, but he instead plans on reallocating where some of the money goes...including toward renewable energy research and development. As a Vermonter I can tell you confidently that if there is waste in any budget, Dean will get rid of it. If there is a more cost effective way to do anything, he'll find it and save money. He's great at that. It would really be a shame for you to not support him over something you have heard about him that simply isn't true.

www.deanforamerica.com

Look for the issues pages.

Cheswick, wonderful post. You've discovered what I've known since Dean's campaign began. He's going to win and he's going to go down in history as one of the greatest presidents this country has ever seen. If he serves the country just half as well as he served Vermont this country will be at the best we've ever seen it. :)
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I hope I will support him...
but now the power is in his hands! Does he want my support or not, does he plan to slash the payroll tax or not? Hopefully this is just a rumor, but I checked with some close personal friends on his campaign staff who say that he is indeed considering such a plan. If he decides against this sad plan, I say Dean is showing wisdom and would gladly support him..
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. From what I understand this is what he wants to do...
He wants to raise the payroll tax limit to make sure that Social Security stays solvent. I've never heard him mention slashing the payroll tax. The only mention I've ever heard him make of it was in a way that would bring more money into Social Security. I also heard him make a vague mention of doing something that would supplement Social Security. It sounded like some kind of universal retirement plan, but I can't recall any details or what he referred to it as.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. I think it can't hurt to go to the forum and express what you have said
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 04:31 PM by Cheswick
It can't hurt for them to know how important different issues are to different people. I don't know if every word gets read. In general I think it does and I do beleive you can send and e-mail to his staffers. I did.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. Bravo!
Wonderfully done! Thanks for sharing your journey. I especially appreciate you taking the time to write it.

Very nice Cheswick. :toast:

Julie
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. Hi, Cheswick!
I, too, was bitterly disappointed to see Al Gore drop out, particularly because it seemed to me that the reason was that he would get no support from the party establishment. After some of his speeches last fall before he declared he wasn't running again, I got the impression that he really understood what he was up against and had really learned some things that would have made him a better president than he would have been otherwise. I was also dismayed to see him trashed on this forum as having "too much baggage" and then seeing any talk of drafting Gore eagerly stamped out here as well. (Kind of ironic considering that someone else beloved on this board was drafted as well). I didn't hold out like you, however, because Dean was the only other person currently in the race who was saying the same things Gore had been. When Gore endorsed Dean, it reaffirmed my previous support for Gore and my impressions that he really understood what the Democrats were facing, both internally and against the Republicans.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I am a stubborn stubborn woman
I don't let go of things easily. :7
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PAMod Donating Member (651 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. Welcome to the fight, Cheswick!
Having been a Dean supporter since the beginning (the day Al Gore stepped aside), I could not understand why everyone was not stampeding to the Dean campaign.

I learned alot from your well-written description of your personal journey. I'm glad we're on the same side.


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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thank you for sharing your journey with us
I also came to Dean when Gore decided not to run, and for many of the same reasons.

"When I talk about this campaign having enthusiasm and energy like you have never seen before, I mean it. You see? I don't have to wait for or expect someone to beat up the mean republicans for me. I can put as much effort and energy as I can muster into fighting the Right-wing all by myself. It is up to me."

Well said!



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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
39. It is Dean's to pull off
He's running because he is outraged at how the Bushistas have plundered and mislead our country. He's the guy who made it "fashionable" to speak honestly about "a popular wartime president*". He's energized an enthusiastic movement and run one hell of a campaign.

He has taken buckshot in his ass from just about every body. He has survived feeding frenzys by his fellow candidates. He's been picked to pieces -- and he just keeps gathering steam. He is showing strength and resiliency.

It's up to him to win it. If he can pull it off, he deserves our respect and whole-hearted support.

I have myself switched from backing the Doctor to backing the General, but that does not mean that I have written Dean off at all, or that I have withdrawn my support of his Presidency. I am still watching him with great interest, and wondering yet again if he's really going to be able to pull it off. He just might.

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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. If You Are Smart
What took you so long to come home? lol Just kidding, great post, thank you.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. LOL
Like I said, sometimes I have no idea why a person with my IQ is so dumb! Mostly I am just stubborn as hell.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
43. excellent, and I agree
This Dean campaign is not “politics as usual”. It takes a certain type of person, with a certain type of courageous "all or nothing" attitude to stand up and say what is unpopular before anyone else says it. I am not talking about the way Lieberman says what is unpopular with democrats, to get swing votes, and figures we will have to vote for him anyway. I mean the kind of unpopular that is not about what is "right" or "left", but instead is about what is true.

I got on board with Howard Dean during the first speech I saw from him, I believe it was the speech he made early in 2003 before the California Democratic Committee or something.

Dean to me is a perfect mixture of my ideas, which I believe are compassionate, yet practical. I don't need soft, feel good rhetoric-I need action NOW! I LOVE the way Dr. Dean speaks the truth, even if it hurts him. I am black, and have noticed the way other candidates are trying to put this racist label on Dean. Its a bit insulting to know that some candidates would try to exploit the sensitivity of blacks on this issue (it would be very easy for me to get on board and decide that Dean is racist and/or out of touch based on some of the things I have read on here).
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Love your sig line
In my fantasy world (well one of them) after Doc wins the election (and I sing the national anthem at the inauguration)and chooses CMB as VP or Attourney General or even Director of Health and Human services. I would love to work with her.
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
48. Thank you, Cheswick.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 05:21 PM by FubarFly
That was a wonderful and heartening read. Dean's grassroots organization is not a gimmick, and should not be dismissed as so. Many of us who felt outrage over the betrayal of Al Gore by our party's leadership, are now reinvigorated and are channeling our energies towards a positive end. Dean has unfailingly treated his supporters with a mixture of humilty, pride, and respect. While it is unfortunately all to easy to go into a bunker mode trying to defend Dean from an endless wave of assaults, fair or otherwise, it's important to be reminded of the human side of the equation once in awhile. It's posts like yours that help reinforce the belief that we will truly take our country back.

:toast:
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
49. Welcome to the Dean campaign!!!!!
:hi:
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
51. Great Post Cheswick
Good honest explanation.

I'm well aware of that wanting to hear my concerns and goals mentioned by a politician.

I live closer to Dean country, so ol' Howard was not an unknown quantity to me when he entered the race.I was thus already somewhat familiar with his image and performance as governor, both his negatives and his strengths.

I too tend to be more intuitive than logical. And my intuition tells me that Dean is exactly right for this moment. We need a plain-speaking centrist who is also a liberal to bridge the gap that has been widening in recent years. And -- if the truth about Dean can get through the spinmeisters -- I think a lot of people will s that Dean really can be that bridge.



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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Great Armstead!
I am glad to see you reinforce my thinking.
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Oreegone Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
54. Thankyou for sharing your thoughts
I am passing this on at our letter writing party. I am sure it will give some folks some great ideas, as many people agree with you, they just can't express it so eloquently....

GO DEAN !!
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. That is such a compliment!
That is so nice of you! Let me know how it is received.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
57. "Then I realized Clark was indeed image and..."
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 05:54 PM by gulliver
That's a free-floating opinion. You have a bunch of them. Since the title of your thread is "Why I decided to support Howard Dean" I think you owe us a why or two. All you have is a bunch of what's.

Why did you realize Clark was indeed image?

On edit: It is this sort of thinking that gets us in trouble. If all you have is a bunch of free-floating opinions (no rational basis), then the odds are that you're wrong. But hey, you are entitled to free-floating opinions. It's America. Oh it sure is.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
59. Well worth the read...
Thank you Cheswick. :toast:

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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
60. That was a nice read, Cheswick!
Good for you to have found your choice through your intuition (partly).

I also am a very intuitive person, and one who has learned to trust mine because it more often than not helps guide me through my life and keeps me out of trouble.

I feel in my bones that another candidate must be the next Democratic President, but it does not tell me that this will take place!

Whoever the nominee is, let's hope a majority of Americans will vote for him and help us get our country back.

:hi:

DemEx
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
61. Dean == PseudoLiberal CryptoRepublican, here is the proof:
read Dean's own words:


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Thanks for kicking the thread
really. :hi:
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. thanks for kicking the thread!
:yourock:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
64. Well here's looking at you Ches
and every single Dean supporter out there. Though we have had disagreements about Dean, I love each and every one of his supporters (well almost all ;) ) and my reservations of him are tempered by the enthusiasm you guys have for him and the respect I have for you. This respect comes from years of having fought the same monsters along-side you guys.

I am still 100% Kucinich but damn if it doesn't do my heart good to see a bunch of people who were so angry for so long finally have HOPE!

Good luck.

If Dean wins, it's because people like you are behind him.

Cheers

:toast:
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AnnabelLee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
65. I enjoyed reading your post
Your description of how you came to support Dean is very interesting. After reading the replies, I must say I had no idea how many people were "drifting" after Gore announced he would not run--I had always taken for granted that he would not.

*This post certified free of caustic vitriol*
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
66. I think for myself
I do not need Gore or Bradley or Clinton or any of them to influence my decision.

That is what your long piece came down to... "Hey! Dems I like endorsed him! So should I!" If you had just written that, it would been easier to muddle through.

It's embarrassing watching all those old political pros falling all over themselves over a worthless hack like Dean.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. why say it to my face when you can say it behind my back
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 08:18 PM by Cheswick
in a PM to blm or whoever.....

All you really did was KICK MY THREAD! :HI:
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shoopnyc123 Donating Member (997 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
68. I did the same...
not too long ago, after being a Clark supporter. I agree with everything you've said, and, on top of that as a black person, I feel like he has the black community on the front burner.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Hi Shoop
Welcome to DU. I hope we all meet in DC for the inauguration of the next President.
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Zinnola Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
72. Thank you soooo much
from one Dean supporter to another
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
74. A classic that no one should miss
:kick:
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