Challenge to DUers: THIS IS THE ATTITUDE YOU'RE FIGHTING AGAINST

[Nikki Stone1]

Do you want to win this election?

Do you want to prevent Sarah Palin from stealing away the women's vote that Democrats count on?

Then you'll need to counter the following argument in a POSITIVE WAY. No calling people stupid or racist or ugly or silly. Or bitch, or the c-word, or any other anti-female slur. Or any anti-male slur. (so "dickhead" is out.)

Your voter, let's call her Mrs. Smith, has read the following article and believes it. She's voting for Palin as a result. YOU need to be the persuasive Democrat that changes her mind. What would you say?

Here is the article:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/06/INB312NP3M.DTL

(You're not going to like it. But remember, it's out there and has to be countered. How do you counter it? I'll put my answer up sometime later on.)

...Whether we have a D, R or an "i for independent" after our names, women share a different life experience from men, and we bring that difference to the choices we make and the decisions we come to. Having a woman in the White House, and not as The Spouse, is a change whose time has come, despite the fact that some Democratic Party leaders have decided otherwise. But with the Palin nomination, maybe they'll realize it's not up to them any longer.

Clinton voters, in particular, have received a political wake-up call they never expected. Having watched their candidate and their principles betrayed by the very people who are supposed to be the flame-holders for equal rights and fairness, they now look across the aisle and see a woman who represents everything the feminist movement claimed it stood for. Women can have a family and a career. We can be whatever we choose, on our own terms...The rank bullying of the Clinton candidacy during the primary season has the distinction of simply being the first revelation of how misogynistic the party has become. The media led the assault, then the Obama campaign continued it. Trailblazer Geraldine Ferraro, who was the first Democratic vice presidential candidate, was so taken aback by the attacks that she publicly decried nominee Barack Obama as "terribly sexist" and openly criticized party chairman Howard Dean for his remarkable silence on the obvious sexism. Concerned feminists noted, among other thinly veiled sexist remarks during the campaign, Obama quipping, "I understand that Sen. Clinton, periodically when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal," and Democratic Rep. Steve Cohen in a television interview comparing Clinton to a spurned lover-turned-stalker in the film, "Fatal Attraction," noting, "Glenn Close should have stayed in that tub, and Sen. Clinton has had a remarkable career...". These attitudes, and more, define the tenor of the party leadership, and sent a message to the grassroots and media that it was "Bros Before Hoes," to quote a popular Obama-supporter T-shirt.

Virtually moments after the GOP announcement of Palin for vice president, pundits on both sides of the aisle began to wonder if Clinton supporters - pro-choice women and gays to be specific - would be attracted to the McCain-Palin ticket. The answer is, of course. There is a point where all of our issues, including abortion rights, are made safer not only if the people we vote for agree with us - but when those people and our society embrace a respect for women and promote policies that increase our personal wealth, power and political influence.

Yes, both McCain and Palin identify as anti-abortion, but neither has led a political life with that belief, or their other religious principles, as their signature issue. Politicians act on their passions - the passion of McCain and Palin is reform. In her time in office, Palin's focus has not been to kick the gays and make abortion illegal; it has been to kick the corrupt and make wasteful spending illegal. The Republicans are now making direct appeals to Clinton supporters, knowingly crafting a political base that would include pro-choice voters.

Remember, no yelling, no namecalling.

A positive message.

[Fresh_Start]

1. Palin says she's against pork....

but she lobbied for pork and celebrated pork and applied for more pork per capita than any other state. What does that tell you about Palin? She says one thing and does another.

Palin says she's against waste in government. But she applies for tens of thousands of dollars from her own state government to pay for her when she's living in her own home. Apparently words and actions don't need to be consistent in Palin's worldview.

[Nikki Stone1]

2. Link?

Thanks

[BeFree]

10. You need a link?

Are you clueless to what the poster wrote: that Palin is a hypocrit?

If you need a link, I suggest you study up.

[BlooInBloo]

13. The poster isn't really trying tol help.

[BeFree]

15. And you are?

Just what are you doing?

There are way too many people here protecting Palin, or are just ignorant. They need a LINK!

It's what I call "Land of the free and home of the brave"... Free to ignore reality and seemingly brave enough to go around acting like nothing is wrong.

[BlooInBloo]

16. Uh.... I was talking about the original poster.

[BeFree]

21. Well

That helps. You weren't very clear.

Yep. The OP'er was just pissing on us and telling us it was raining. Eh?

[Pamela Troy]

39. No, the OPer has a good point, though one that may be a little too sophisticated for some here.

[BeFree]

43. deleted repeat

[Pamela Troy]

45. No, see, to a reader who actually can parse complex sentences and concepts,

the OPer is not trying to "protect" Palin at all. The OPer has cited a fairly sophisticated defense of Palin, and asked DUers to consider how they would counter this defense in a sophisticated manner, i.e., one that goes beyond, "You're just a big ol' right wing doody head and I'm NOT GOING TO LISTEN YOU FILTY REPUG!"

Think you can calm down long enough to manage that?

[BeFree]

47. Well

So, do as the OPer asked and counter it. Instead what do you do? Attack me.

So, are you calm enough to do so? I doubt it. Nor sophisticated enough.

[Pamela Troy]

52. Boo friggin' hoo. You posted a supremely inane response to a good post

and mean ol' me called you on it.

Cry me a river.

Yes, I do have a response. And like most well-thought-out responses to questions like the OPers, it's not being written on the fly.

If you want to read other examples of my posts, check out my blog.

[BeFree]

63. Screw your blog

We are here and now. And here you got nothing. Palin is a lying cheater republican. Can you say that?

[Pamela Troy]

66. Sure, I can say "Palin is a lying cheater Republican. And I have.

Can you say anything more sophisticated, or are you more into mantras than actual political thought and argument?

[BeFree]

44. Oh dear

A low blow. So tell us Ms. Sophisticate, what IS the point?

Because from what I've seen, the OPer is protecting Palin from the evil DUers!

[Nikki Stone1]

48. Thank you. I appreciate that.

I am actually writing an essay on this subject and I wanted to see what others thought were important points about Palin,

[Nikki Stone1]

49. Thank you. I appreciate that.

I am actually writing an essay on this subject and I wanted to see what others thought were important points about Palin,

[Fresh_Start]

18. you should get a new crystal ball, yours is defective

I was trying to help. I'm sorry that talking about facts didn't fit into your plan.

[BlooInBloo]

20. #13.

[Nikki Stone1]

77. You

have mail

[Nikki Stone1]

78. You

have mail

[AuntPatsy]

28. That is more than obvious

[Nikki Stone1]

46. Excuse me, Bloo in Bloo, but you are wrong and you do not speak for me

Thank you.

[Balderdash]

27. If every one could dial back the instant outrage for

a moment... I think the OP is trying to get us to learn how to teach skeptics about Obama and the Democratic platform. A link for the hypothetical "others" edification. Can you dig it?

[Fresh_Start]

17. links

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080903/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_earmarks (PORK)
http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN3125537020080901 (PORK)
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/9/9/31743/81433 (PER DIEM)

[Nikki Stone1]

72. THANK YOU!!

Thank you!

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. Tammy Bruce voted for Bush is a Faux News Contributer

Defends John Bolton, writes for News MaX.......... Need I say more?

[Pamela Troy]

40. Which is why she's being posted as an example of what needs to be COUNTERED.

Do you understand what the word "countered" means in this context?

[Nikki Stone1]

50. THANK YOU * THANK YOU * THANK YOU For GETTING IT!!

This is what we are FIGHTING! I am trying to figure out the best counterarguments for this. I am writing a LTTE for a local paper and I am trying to figure out what the best arguments are against an article like this.

[BeFree]

51. So counter it already !!!

Because it looks like you are here just to keep us evil DUers off Palins ass.

[Pamela Troy]

55. Like I said, check out my blog if you imagine I'm a Palin supporter.

[BeFree]

59. Then just stop.

If you can't counter it here and now, then you got nothing. Just like Palin who is a hypocrit, your words here are just blowing smoke meant to obscure the truth.

[Pamela Troy]

62. I've already posted my "counter."

What "truth" do you imagine I'm trying to obscure?

[Nikki Stone1]

85. BeFree, please be polite to people on my thread.

If you have nothing to add, then go to another thread.

[wvbygod]

4. A womans world is best seen, understood and described by a woman

Identity politics works well when the voters identify with whom they are voting. This does
not exclude their gender. There are many people with internalized sexism who may never
understand this simple fact.

[Fresh_Start]

24. I see women as varied

with different life experiences.

Some have never worked out of the home, others are workaholics.
Some live for children, others have no desire for children.
Some love quilting: others love to run marathons.
Some clean their homes, others hire someone else to clean.
Some wear dresses and put on makeup before they leave the house, others wear jeans and go barefaced.
Some work as teachers or nurses, others work as roofers and electricians.

I don't see us as matched bookends.
I relate more to the individuals deeds and character than to their X-chromosome.

[AuntPatsy]

5. Tried that already, it didn't work, but the name calling sure worked for the repugs..

[Pamela Troy]

41. Because it was not countered, and by that I don't mean namecalling back.

[secondwind]

6. There must be a typo on the author's name, maybe it should be "Tommy" and not Tammy,

as a woman, don't hear a woman's voice at all in this entire article.

I am 61 yrs old, and I remember when true feminism came to the forefront, when we wanted equal pay and equal rights, and yes, the right to choose was right up there.

Palin does not believe in equal rights, her record is atrocious when it comes to the Alaskan Native American people.

Palin does not believe that a woman knows what is best for her and her family when it comes to reproductive choice.

If Palin becomes VP (and by extension, a President), she will take women's rights backwards at least fifty years.

This woman is soo very ambitious in a "get out of my way" manner, that she simply hasnt had the time to even be a bit humbled by having a handicapped child, or having a young daughter in a family way. She appears to care about no one except her own ambitions.

God help us.

[protect our future]

8. Now that's an excellent post, secondwind! n/t

[secondwind]

9. I can't see women flocking to that ticket, other than that "Evangelical base" (I still

can't believe that religion is a part of our electoral process.)

We need to prevent ideologues from taking over our country.

[Nikki Stone1]

86. Actually, McCain is up 12% with women from last week--that's the Palin effect.

And they all can't be evangelicals. THAT's what worries me.

I heartily agree with you that religion has NO place in politics.

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. The author of the SF article is a right wing hack

voted for Bush and supports Bolton.


I love your post BTW!

[Balderdash]

29. We know that all ready but how would you

counter that bullshit without being disrespectful, no name calling. Change their mind, convince them that Obama is the change we need!

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Balderdash]

33. What is your deal?

I was agreeing with you numbnuts! You were right about who wrote the article and you come back and slam me like you have turettes or something. Is that really all you have? Maybe you're just not smart enough to convince someone without having to resort to being a bully, if so you won't be winning any elections for anyone.

[Pamela Troy]

42. No, it's pretty obvious that you don't.

Maybe you should take the time to actually read it? And if the word "countered" is unfamiliar to you, perhaps you should look it up.

[Nikki Stone1]

54. Please do not disrespect people on my thread, Ichingcarpenter

We DO need to counter this. Have you read the latest polls? McCain Palin is now 12% ahead in the female vote--and that is since Palin's was nominated. It's Palin that is attracting them and Palin that needs to be countered.

[abbiehoff]

7. As women go, Palin is pretty macho

Surely McSame could have found a more qualified woman for the ticket.
I think we should be relieved that he didn't; he chose a total disaster.
That will become more and more obvious as the election approaches.

[Nikki Stone1]

56. I think her machismo is part of her selling power. We need to show that she may LOOK strong but she

doesn't really stand for strong women or the strength of women as a whole.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nikki Stone1]

57. "The Democratic party is not misogynistic and compared to the republican party

EXACTLY. But unfortunately, many Democratic women were left with the impression that it was due to the unchecked sexism during the campaign. We need to counter this, and I think the only real way to do it is with the platform.

As far as you accusations against me, I remember a time when you were a staunch CLinton supporter and went after everyone else in the same unthinking way you are now going after me. You change your tune but not your dance steps.

[cali]

64. Wrong, dear. I never supported Clinton for prez

though I did defend her against sexist and egregious crap. I was attacked by all sides. Making shit up is your strong suit. How Palinesque of you.

Oh, and YOU did indeed compress several paragraphs into one to avoid DI rules. That's completely dishonest. C'mon, compound your dishonesty and tell us all it was an accident.

[Nikki Stone1]

68. Cali, I do not have time to do a full search, and I wasn't here for the latter half of the primary

season, but you did strenuously defend Clinton and I remember your saying that you supported Clinton. It was a major change when you decided to support Obama, When I have time, I will go through all the threads. But right now, I will say this: "making shit up" seems to be your strong suit. It certainly isn't writing intelligent prose or actually writing something that can help the situation. I offered you a dare, and you ignored me. If you expressed yourself better, perhaps you wouldn't have to go attacking me all the time.

[cali]

75. Nope. And I don't mind doing a search to prove you wrong.

Here's a post of mine from October 7th, 2007.

cali (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-04-07 11:04 PM
Original message
Although I don't support Hillary Clinton, all the folks claiming she's
no different than a repuke, are driving me a little bonkers. So I've been researching her votes and positions. No, I still won't vote for her in the primary, but at least my decision will be based on facts. Anyway, here's a bit about her environmental record:


Got that, dear? I say unequivocally that I won't support her in the primaries. I said it hundreds of times. I criticized her and defended her as I saw fit. I'm honest about my opinions. Unlike you I don't make shit up.

And yeah, I've written many substantive, issue driven posts like the one I quote here.

I do call people on their dishonest crap. You don't like that. And I understand why you don't.

[Nikki Stone1]

79. You would rather criticize me than do anything to help.

Why are you so angry? What have I ever done to you, other than point out the obvious, which is that you'd rather bitch than make things better?

And, yes I did take you for a Clinton supporter. You had me fooled. :) Congrats!

[cali]

80. whine, whine, whine. You get called on your dishonesty and go on the attack

hardly original. You spend all your time defending PUMAs and attacking people who don't agree with you. try stopping the whining when you get caught.

[Nikki Stone1]

83. So to ask you questions is to whine? You little definer you!

And if you are implying that I am a PUMA or a troll and that I don't intend to vote Democratic, then you are wrong and you slandering me on this board. I assume that others feel that way, but people often shoot the messenger. As long as I thought Obama was winning this thing, I wasn't worried. But more Republican administrations are not good for teachers, or haven't you heard. It also is very damaging to the students I teach. So before you take out your inner anger and frustration on ME, and possibly get me banned because you are having a very bad day, rethink it. You have a brain, or so you've shown on other posts. I know you're not stupid. So use your brain. Women are being fooled by this pick of McCain's and I am worried that we are not going to be able to stop the hemorrhage.

If you want to be petty, be my guest, but know that that's ALL you're being.

[cali]

92. I'm not calling you a PUMA. I said you defend them and you've

made it clear you have some sympathy for them. I don't. So no, I'm not slandering you. I called you on your sneaky move of compressing many paragraphs into one to get around the DU rules, and that seems to have set you off.

And I agree with those who say we're NEVER going to convince the Tammy Bruce types. Ever.

I intend to counter the move of women to Palin/McCain by continuing to phone bank and committing to going to NH several more times. And frankly, the onus is chiefly on Obama and Biden. They're the ones who have to find a way to get more white women on board.

[Nikki Stone1]

94. Your implication was clear, and you need to watch the accusations

I am member in good standing, I do NOT believe in voting outside the party and never have. I have sympathy for the PUMAs only because I remember the primaries and remember that this board made me so sick I couldn't post (except an occasional anti-David Horowitz thread--he's my own special project.) Even if I didn't have sympathy, it is simply good politics and good strategy not to throw away our own, our votes, our chance of winning. You can't count on "new" voters in the same way as you can count on probable voters.

I do believe we CAN influence the Tammy Bruce types because they are victims of an image game. Go back to the article earlier this week by George Lakoff in the Huffington Post. I don't have the link, but I know it was posted here as well. THAT is the game: change the image. If women believe that Sarah Palin is Annie Oakley with a gun and her 5 kids in tow and shooting breakfast--like the old frontier women--they will see that as a feminist image, an image of strength. It is the IMAGE that has to be countered. And that will take some doing and that is what I am trying to do. And what we really needs are signs of weakness: Asking for earmarks is a sign of weakness (not self sufficient). FInd out that her husband interferes with her job as governor is a sign of weakness: it means she doesn't run her own show. We have information and emails to that effect. THESE are the kinds of things I am looking for.

Phone banking is good, but trying to talk people out of media images with reality is difficult if you haven't fought the image. And I agree with you that the onus is on Obama and Biden. They need to do an outreach to white women and they need to be able to do it without resorting to Hillary--that will seem like weakness and like the wrong candidate is running. I'm sure the GOP would love that.

Any ideas?

[Pamela Troy]

82. The OPer's point, Cali, is to find a way to counter those lies.

[Nikki Stone1]

93. I don't think she cares, Pamela

She has decided that she hates me for some reason and that's enough for her. What she needs to realize is that hating me is one thing; accusing me of lying about who and what I am is another. If she implies that I am a troll or PUMA or anything like that, I will alert on her because these things are against the rules. And it would be especially unfair in my case since I want the PUMA voters BACK WITH US and not voting for other tickets.

[chicagoexpat]

14. Developing arguments is fine, but rarely used -- do some REAL WORK to affect the election outcome

ONLY real work will help Obama get elected. Contact your local campaign office and volunteer on a weekly basis.

Blogging and e-mailing and posting to forums is NOT "real work", it's only VIRTUAL work that doesn't help the campaign at all.

REAL WORK consists of (but is not limited to):

general office work at campaign HQ

donating money to the campaign

donating other resources to the campaign (spare room for an Obama Fellow, food, office supplies, etc.)

registering voters

phone banks

canvassing

helping at campaign house parties

writing letters to the editor (see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6999716 )

[Nikki Stone1]

87. See that last thing on your list?

That's what I am trying to do. I thought I could get some help here. But some people took my challenge as an attack because they didn't understand.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Tammy Bruce is a RW sack of shit, pretends to be a former Democrat, now

declares herself an "Independent Conservative", says that Obama "hates America" on the radio, etc. I would no more heed her words than I would Ann Coulter or Lynn Cheney.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. Meet Tammy Bruce *************BUT SHE'S NOT A PUMA!!!!!************

Meet Tammy Bruce, a columnist for the reliably right-wing NewsMax.com and a television pundit who voices the conservative position on everything from the death penalty to the Pledge of Allegiance. Her new book, The Death of Right and Wrong: Exposing the Left's Assault on Our Culture and Our Values, has blurbs from Laura Schlessinger, Sean Hannity, and G. Gordon Liddy.

Bruce rails at the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) for its boycott of sponsors of Schlessinger's television show; yet in 1990.

In The Death of Right and Wrong, she argues not only that the Boy Scouts of America have a constitutional right to ban gays from their ranks but that their anti-gay policy is commendable, since having openly gay scoutmasters would expose boys to the risk of molestation. (She does not mention that the Boy Scouts' policy also bans openly gay teenage boys from being Scouts.)


http://www.reason.com/news/show/28859.html


*************BUT SHE'S NOT A PUMA!!!!!************

[TwilightGardener]

25. Thanks--that should clear things up for people who think this is a valid editorial.

[Nikki Stone1]

90. Tammy Bruce self-identifies AS A FEMINIST. That is why she in particular needs to be countered.

:kick:

[Balderdash]

36. We KNOW it's a right wing editorial

How woulld you counter the bullshit in the article to win someone over for Obama? God damn it y'all, try a little reading comprehension.

[Nikki Stone1]

60. Yes, this is Tammy Bruce and she appears in the SF Chronicle this morning, a major paper

Women are up 12% for McCain/Palin. How do we counter this? All you are doing is attacking the messenger. Stop it, and think about votes.

[Nikki Stone1]

88. But she identifies as a "feminist" unlike other RW women who don't

That is why she is particularly dangerous.

[EstimatedProphet]

22. OK, here's an attempt:

There is a point where all of our issues, including abortion rights, are made safer not only if the people we vote for agree with us - but when those people and our society embrace a respect for women and promote policies that increase our personal wealth, power and political influence.

It is not valid to believe that Palin is necessarily a choice that engenders respect for women, just because she is a woman. Her record clearly speaks otherwise. Palin doesn't even attempt to project respect for Hillary Clinton, and has publically called her "the bitch." Not a shining example of feminist ideals...

Yes, both McCain and Palin identify as anti-abortion, but neither has led a political life with that belief, or their other religious principles, as their signature issue.

This is simply not true. Palin has consistently let anti-choice principles be her guiding belief, to the point that she has enacted abstinence-only policies in Alaska, and stated that abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape or potential life-threatening harm to the mother.

In her time in office, Palin's focus has not been to kick the gays and make abortion illegal; it has been to kick the corrupt and make wasteful spending illegal.

If this were really the case, then explain why she supported the Bridge To Nowhere until it became politically untenable, and even after coming out against it, still took the money from Washington for it? Why also has she padded her travel allowance by taking per diem payments while staying at home? these are not the actions of a fiscal reformer. they are the actions of a corrupt politician.

The Republicans are now making direct appeals to Clinton supporters, knowingly crafting a political base that would include pro-choice voters.

This statement is meaningless. So, now that the repubs have cynically employed a candidate who is only on the shallowest surface pro-woman - only because of her gender - than this signifies that they intend to now completely turn the party philosophy towards egalitarian goals, when just 2 weeks ago they were still the party of Old Rich White Men? How can you expect someone to take a statement like that seriously?

[Balderdash]

31. Excellent!

I especially liked this part:

"This statement is meaningless. So, now that the repubs have cynically employed a candidate who is only on the shallowest surface pro-woman - only because of her gender - than this signifies that they intend to now completely turn the party philosophy towards egalitarian goals, when just 2 weeks ago they were still the party of Old Rich White Men? How can you expect someone to take a statement like that seriously?"

[Shine]

53. Great job, EP

:applause:

[Nikki Stone1]

61. EXCELLENT!! (Do you mind if I borrow this for a LTTE?)

Fantastic points.

[EstimatedProphet]

97. All yours - go right ahead

[moriah]

26. I consider myself a feminist as well.

I was very saddened by the reaction of not just ordinary voters, but the mainstream media as well, to Hillary Clinton's candidacy. The Women's Media Center put out a very powerful video that I hope every person will watch, and feel as saddened and disgusted as I did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-IrhRSwF9U

I also likely earned a place on several ignore lists for calling people here out on the hypocrisy of people who believe that a woman can have a career and have a family and do well at both to suggest that Sarah Palin is a bad mother, or will be a bad VP, because she has a very young son with special needs.

However, contrary to the idea that she has not used her position as Governor to advocate her beliefs about abortion, when the Alaska Supreme Court overturned a law that would have made teenagers get their parents' permission before obtaining an abortion she decried the decision as "outrageous" and attempted to appeal -- an appeal that would have cost the state money, not saved them money. We aren't talking about "parental notification", which the Court said likely would be constitutional, but parental permission. Her decision to attempt to appeal this ruling says quite a bit when you remember that in the gubernatorial debates she said that she would force her daughters to continue a pregnancy if they conceived as a result of rape.

In response to this, she said that she supports a constitutional amendment making it a requirement that a minor's parents consent to an abortion -- so that the next time a law like this is passed, it can't be overturned as unconstitutional. Additionally, she asked for help from pro-life groups to "reshape the judiciary".

She also supports measures to deny benefits to same-sex couples -- she vetoed a law that came to her desk that would do so because she was advised it would be overturned by the Alaska Supreme Court, but said she wants a constitutional amendment to ban benefits to same-sex couples.

Maybe I'm alone here, but talk of "reshaping the judiciary" makes me truly terrified of what this person would do if they were in charge of picking nominees for the Supreme Court.

Her record of advocating for women isn't that great either. Organizations have been very saddened about Sarah Palin's failure to advocate for other issues for women besides choice. She refused to act on requests to raise SCHIP funding, even though Alaska had a 7 billion dollar surplus. She refused to provide state support to homeless shelters that accepted women and children, and also cut funding to Covenant House, a shelter for women and pregnant teens.

Even though Alaska has been known for the very low instance of female judges, when Sarah got to pick a person for the Alaska Supreme Court, she chose a trial lawyer with absolutely no previous judicial experience -- a male by the name of Daniel Winfree. If she was going to name a person to the Supreme Court who had never sat as a judge before, why not choose a woman? There are many female trial lawyers who were as qualified as Mr. Winfree.

But guess what? The Alaska Right to Life group praised her pick -- I'm guessing he's pro-life as well. I find that incredibly disturbing, because if she will appoint people to the judiciary based not on experience but on their pro-life stance, that shows she is putting her personal beliefs ahead of doing the best she can for the people she governs.

I can't vote for a person who will put the praise of an anti-choice group before the good of her people.

[Balderdash]

32. Your post is awesome too

Way to go after her policies!

[Nikki Stone1]

65. This is great moriah

You have mail.

[Solomon]

34. The original poster is posting Tammy Bruce?

Tammy Bruce for godsakes. Do you know this is DU? Why are you posting this garbage here?

I am so tired of you. Why don't you just take your threats and go vote for McCain?

Damn. Tammy Bruce. For godsakes.

Got two words for that tripe. Clarence Thomas.

[Pamela Troy]

37. Uh, you DO understand that Tammy Bruce is being posted as an example of what needs to be COUNTERED?

Right?

[Balderdash]

38. Did you read the OP at all?

If you did, try again because you missed the entire point.

[Nikki Stone1]

89. Tammy Bruce self-identifies AS A FEMINIST. That is why she in particular needs to be countered.

She's worse than having the Coultergeist or Malkin write an article.

[LittleClarkie]

35. But that is Palin's signature issue

She's very proud of her anti-abortion stance.

[Nikki Stone1]

70. Exactly. Thank you

I need the link to her governor's race-the debate when she said she'd make her daughter carry the fetus to term if her child was raped.

[Pamela Troy]

58. I cannot think of a more foolish and dangerous approach than to support a candidate

on the assumption that he or she doesn't "really mean it" when they describe their aims and their beliefs.

[Nikki Stone1]

69. Excellent point

And thanks for playing defense today.

[Nikki Stone1]

76. And

you have mail

[GreenEyedLefty]

67. I don't think being a woman alone is worthy of respect.

Not only that, I don't believe being on a presidential ticket elevates anyone to a position that is above criticism, even a woman.

Lest anyone think I am sexist, I am also a woman.

[Nikki Stone1]

71. I agree with you.

Is there a way to make that argument without sounding judgemental? (Not that you do, but I am trying to find the most effective way to say it.)

[GreenEyedLefty]

73. It *sounds* judgmental because we've been conditioned to

not criticize women because doing so is viewed as sexist. Especially when the critic happens to be a man.

[Nikki Stone1]

74. Yes, that makes sense. Which means it needs to be couched in certain terms.

BTW, you have mail.

[Waiting For Everyman]

81. They aren't reformers OR mavericks, they toe the hard core party line

McCain has changed all of his moderate positions, to line up with the far right platform... on abortion, energy, and taxes. Palin has a history of doing the same.

Palin didn't reform anything. She kept the money from the bridge to nowhere. She attacked Republicans only to make her own name, but she does the same practices... see the ethics investigation about HER, which btw she is trying to derail.

The FBI and IRS brought the corruption charges in AK, not Palin. She's just the opportunist trying to take the credit - something she does very well because she has no scruples.

Who wants to bet that McC will not promote the party line once elected? Why take that chance? He's way less qualified than Obama on National Security and as a Commander in Chief. There's no reason to take the risk of putting the SAME party with the SAME advisors and lobbyists back in power for round three.

McCain will probably be able to pick the next Supreme Court justices if elected... bye, bye Roe v. Wade and choice.

Bye, bye what's left of our economy. He's a Free Trader and all his policies are all for the ultra-rich... just like Bush/Cheney. As Dr. Phil said, how has that been workin' out for ya?

If women/Indies can't grasp that, they have no mind to change.

[Nikki Stone1]

84. You make some excellent points.

I think people are being taken in by the media and the "flash" as it were, and they are not paying attention to the issues. We have to find a way to bring those issues forward.

[renie408]

91. Actually, Palin DID kick gays when she vetoed allowing the partners of

gay Alaska state workers to receive insurance benefits.

[Nikki Stone1]

95. Good point!

Do you know where I can find a link to that?

[demo dutch]

96. I have yet to meet any women who support Palin!

[spelldmilk]

98. My response…

is simple. I am a woman. I have two young sons. I work. I am also completing a graduate degree, which I have been pursuing while I have been a mother and while working. I will be casting my vote for the Obama/Biden ticket. At the Inauguration, the elected individual swears to "protect, preserve and defend the Constitution." Barack Obama is a Constitutional lawyer, I believe that he is the candidate that can best fulfill the Oath of the Presidency. He is a US Senator. He is intimately familiar with the legislative process, on both the state and national level. He sponsored 820 laws in the Illinois Senate, co-sponsored 427 in the US Senate, and has authored 152 bills. He has a proven history of defending the rights of US citizens, and working to effect positive change for them. Joe Biden is a member of the Committee on Foreign Relations and the Committee on the Judiciary. He has been a productive and passionate member of the Senate since 1973, consistently working for the rights of not just his constituents, but of all Americans.

And if they are still awake, they usually don't have anything to say. Just pick a few points that you really believe in, whether it's about a candidate or about governance, and stick to them. Make people think about something different than the shiny thing in the middle of the room. Refuse to get drawn into a personality debate, because the vast majority of us don't know these people anyway, so it's just silly to try and defend or diminish an individual on those suggestions.

It's pointless to get into a school yard brawl, and criticizing Republicans just ends up with venom in my eye, so I learned just to stay positive, repeat the accomplishments of the candidates I support. F+ck'em if they have no sense of humour and are too lazy to form an opinion of their own. I vote, I read and I do care about my country.

Besides, the Republican ticket scares the crap out of me, and it's difficult to think straight in a haze of fear, so I stick to what I know!

[Ichingcarpenter]

99. This shit is over!!! Your crap is now on notice!

You bring in your KITTSs to support this thread to kick it your thread
and continue it, especially the other time when Rachel was on or
news was breaking

Game over..... I tried, you lied.



YOU DIDN'T GET ONE NOMINATION ON THIS THREAD

QUIT SHOWING PICTURES OF YOUR UGLY KIDS.