White Women

[Labors of Hercules]

Are a majority of white women seriously going to support McCain/Palin simply because Sarah is a white woman?

Are they seriously stupid enough to vote for someone who will do everything in her power to undercut what women need in this country? (A strong voice of feminism in leadership, the right to choose, equal pay, support for working mothers, a departure from a self-destructive patriarchal model of society, etc. etc. etc.)...

Sarah Palin is a doggedly ANTI-WOMAN woman. McCain picked her simply to accomplish his pathetic political ambitions, and it is amazing to me that she would appeal to ANY self-respecting woman, far less a MAJORITY of them. :eyes:

By creating a 20-point swing in the polls, are these Women acting irrationally? Because I KNOW they are smarter than this.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/mccainobama_women_shift_with_p.html

A word on Sarah Palin from a true feminist:
http://apostate.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/palin-as-an-insult-to-feminists/

[AspenRose]

1. I hope not

But you know, I'm sure the media and the GOP would be MORE THAN HAPPY to fan those 'scary black man' sparks to bonfire heights.

[liberalitch]

10. Don't you mean uppity?

Now how can a rep from Georgia NOT know that that is one of the many anti-black code words?
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/04/georgia_gop_congressman_calls.html

[AspenRose]

21. Oh, yes

"Uppity elitist," to be precise! :thumbsup:

[EstimatedProphet]

39. Because he never had to use it

All the blacks arund his parts know their place. They don't get uppity.

[liberalitch]

45. Ba dum....

...Crash!
We'll be here all week!

[EstimatedProphet]

49. .

[seabeyond]

2. i dont believe that ONE poll. i think it is what they did with the puma during dem

convention. a story where there is not a story.

[EstimatedProphet]

3. No

It's early yet

[Clio the Leo]

4. nope

The conservative "values" white women might but not those of us with good sense. CNN poll showed today (sorry, dont have source, just take my word for it) shows Palin is doing better among men than among women.

Which is exactly how I called it a week and a half ago.

I love it when I'm right .... or left rather.

[chitty]

5. As Matt Lauer put it this morning.......

"She has created a sisterhood........"

:puke:

[LibraLiz1973]

26. How funny. Over on MSNBC they said the same thing.

Guess they are pushing that meme pretty hard.

[TwilightGardener]

31. They're trying to start another "traveling pantsuit" sisterhood thing, to keep

the race close. Ridiculous.

[Born_A_Truman]

37. Not with this old sister she didn't!

[liberalitch]

46. Us Alpha dembitches....

know better!
Hey that's a great title for us over 40 fem-dems!

[demokatgurrl]

58. I love it! We should get some buttons made. n/t

[DeschutesRiver]

53. Not with this old white sister either

I don't understand this. I am old. I am white. I am a registered independent. I am far from stupid. I support Obama.

What would make me suddenly decide to vote for McCain? Are they saying that white women are so stupid that they would switch to McCain simply because he put a pair of breasts up there on stage beside him? Because short of that, there are not yet any facts delivered by Ms. Palin to flesh out where she stands on any issue; nor answers to the apparent untruths that have been well documented now.

She appears to be without qualifications; and worse, refuses to answer legitimate questions that come with follow-ups. Per the McCain campaign, she is studying for those questions and the upcoming debate by using flash cards like a third grader. Per her church, she may speak in tongues, may believe the earth is 6000 years old and at the least wants that taught like an actual science in the classroom, and given some of the clips showing Ms. Palin speaking in church, she may not capable of understanding or adhering to the separation of church and state. If a stranger, or even a father rapes his own daughter, that child will be forced to bear the child; does Palin think the rapist should have parental rights? It is NOT farfetched to be having such concerns, and thus the need to be asking hard questions with in depth follow-ups.

And I haven't even touched the lack of economic understanding demonstrated by the freddie/fannie comments, or the lack of foreign affairs understanding to the point that we are told by the McCain camp that "well, AK is next to Russia". In fact, there are so many questions about so much stuff that even if she began seriously answering today, there is no longer enough time for voters to get a fair shake at fully vetting this woman. Of course, maybe her penchant for firing people unjustly will result in Troopergate taking her out.

So these poll results indicate nothing other to me than the fact that if true, us white women suddenly went stupid overnight because of a pair of breasts and a shrill voice to boot. I don't think the polls are acurate.

[starchimes]

6. I don't agree with this. I for one am voting for Obama.

My mom and sister are also voting for Obama (they both voted Republican last time).

[Phoonzang]

7. What can you say....people are f'ing stupid.

Makes me want to start looking for alternatives to democracy. :crazy:

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

8. Just a little OT on the subject of Palin as anti-woman

I don't think she is anti-woman for HERSELF. Indeed, she has availed herself of all progress that women have made in the last 20-30 years. The real problem with Gov. Palin, IMHO, is that she is against all other women availing themselves of the progress. Hence, she is a 'selective' feminist.

[meow2u3]

15. She's one of those phony, right-wing babies

You know that kind: those who were for affirmative action until they turn against AA the moment they get in power. It reminds me of the thirsty woman who after she has her fill of water, pees in the bucket so no one else can drink it.

[moez]

9. Here's my opinion....

For which I fully expect to be flamed.

When you frame your question the way you did ("are they seriously stupid enough..."), it does nothing but help McCain / Palin. Many women (my mother and many of her friends included) went through the years being passed over for jobs for non-job related reasons (i.e. perceived family reasons, or anything else NOT related to the job). Also, they spent more than their share of time listening to men diminish their thoughts and opinions at work (i.e. "are they seriously stupid enough...").

What my mother and many of these other women are seeing is a woman going through the same thing that they had to deal with over and over and over. Palin is being bashed for being a working mother, for not being able to "handle" the job, and myriad other non-specific "issues".

We need to address the actual issues and leave the other crap alone. Talk about Palin's views on reproduction rights, her weakness on foreign policy experience, or ANYTHING else that is actually germaine to the actual job. Every time she gets blasted on these other issues, we're practically handing her another vote.

And, to answer your question, I don't believe that these women are "irrational" or "stupid". I think many of them are not as plugged into the daily blogs and news as many here are; with that, they are striking back at what they perceive as unfair treatment aimed at Palin. It's a gut level reaction that will stop only when we begin to focus on issues and leave the other shit alone.

Flame away.... I'm leavin'.

[Balderdash]

29. Awesome post and right on!

NT

[Labors of Hercules]

33. THANK YOU!!!

It was my intention to cause a bit of a flame up with those words and appreciate you calling them out.

Can you forgive my little attempt at reverse psychology? :loveya:

[progressivebydesign]

34. actually, they should be incensed that an unqualified woman is being promoted instead.

Cuz frankly, the same damn media and others TRASHED Hillary because she wasn't young or pretty enough for them, and wasn't deferential, and yet had more experience than most candidates. She was forced out and treated like hell for being a woman, and yet Caribou Barbie comes along and she is scantly qualified, perky, and younger, so she is embraced by women? Obama, Biden, and McCain, all have children -- but is it the actual birth canal experience that somehow gives you a special qualification? Or is it a certain amount of children?

Amazes me that women would actually ALLOW the Bush era to continue destroying our COuntry and the world, just because they think they identify with a "working Mom" Please.. we're ALL Working Moms, doesn't make us qualified to lead the nation. I think the media and marketers have done a GREAT disservice to women in the past decade by making the idea that being a working Mom somehow makes you more capable than anyone else, or more special. We all do what we do, and we all have things we overcome. It should not give anyone license to skip the requisites to leading the free world.

I would love to ask these women.. so how does your identification with her FIX THE ECONOMY? They are pissing away the entire planet's survival because they read too many women's magazines.

[saracat]

43. Some just don't get it and that could cost us an election'

This quote says it all;

"I would love to ask these women.. so how does your identification with her FIX THE ECONOMY? They are pissing away the entire planet's survival because they read too many women's magazines."

It is condescending and patronizing. I do not support Palin. I think women's real and justified anger is being turned against their own interests . But many women are supporting Palin only to send a message. I think this is the wrong time to take that approach but implying they are stupid when in fact many of them are PHD's, doctors, lawyers ,educators, and scientists is not going to be scoring you any points nor will it get you any votes.

Many of these women do not see their vote as "making a difference" in this election. Some are reinforcing that statement everytime they say the women can be "replaced" Many women see themselves as having been discarded and treated with disdain after having fought their entire lives for equality.Calling them "selfish" when many have spent their lives dedicated to the betterment of others doesn't wash either.

I suggest we get to work and convince them that their work and dedication can be salvaged and that they must defend the Democratic platform in order to continue the fight of their lives.It is going to be tough for some to believe after what some have experienced but we have an obligation to get them to believe that their vote counts.

The GOP are asking for the women's vote. We should be asking for it as well

[dana_b]

50. your post should be an OP

it's true and women identify with her struggles - not necessarily her policies. They need education on that area without being called dumb.

[moez]

57. Ha!

I just tried it as an OP and now I'm a "concern troll", freeper, moron - you name it!

I knew the flamers were out there.... I guess I just had to find the right place!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7011963#7012431

[emilyg]

52. Excellent post.

[Eyes_wide_ open]

54. Flame? Hell no, I'd reccomend it if I could.

I agree totally, great post

[FlowerPowerToday]

56. I agree with you

"They must be stupid..." If I heard that lament once, I've heard it a hundred times here. That is not going to get us to win over these Wal-Mart Moms.

[Raineyb]

59. I'm about to repeat something I said in a different thread but

their frustrations going through the same things as Palin is a lame ass excuse to vote for people who stand with the people who don't want you to get equal pay, control of your own person, or decent and proper comprehensive education for the nation's children.

There are other groups out there who have gone through horrendous challenges in this country as well yet manage to vote for the party that represents their interests despite the fact that the party takes them for granted then often ignores them until election time. Yet there isn't a great outcry to have their behinds kissed in order to get the vote.

So why are these women different? YOu don't think they're irrational or stupid then why are they deliberately planning to vote against what they believe? Is it spite then? What is it because I can't come up with an explanation that doesn't involve either racism or stupidity and those aren't considered legitimate criticism by some factions around here.

Regards

[Sensitivity]

11. This was an INEVITABLE swing in PO. Only by discrediting PALIN quickly could it have been stalled.

By keeping the PALIN possibility a secret, McCain's team prevented Dems from preparing the kind of quick response that they were able to prepare against Biden. Give them credit for their cleverness, but they understand social psychology and modern propaganda.

It is clear that many of us here don't.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6808814

[blondeatlast]

13. Your sad post fast-tracked it's way to obscurity. I'm proud of my fellow DUers.

I know you love to kick your own posts... :rofl:

[Sensitivity]

19. The "SAD" post was TRUE. Funny how some perfer to lose rather than face facts.

[PATRICK]

12. Some of the harshest personal attacks

seem to have come from women judging issues from their perspective, in many cases(Palin flounders in all of them). I think this will sustain and deepen whereas the fan reaction to the shallow excitement will wane. It is one thing to build on a Palin positive mis-perception and then keep adding lies and mis-perceptions which is the opposite of what happened to Gore. It is shallow and the media does shallow in a certain way too that cannot be sustained if there is too much counter balancing trouble and actual perceptive ill will in the base that needs appealing to.

Family and marital matters. Lying. Extremist on issues. Extremist in religion. Not qualified and a sure let down for possibly the first female president. Detracting from McCain as much as helping. I think we are seeing(among men too to more immature extent from my male perspective) a giddy pendulum swing rarely allowed and little lasting to Dem bounces on truly losing tickets.

Time may be gamed here too but I think, despite the establishment's reluctance to ever call this race publicly, we are nearing the false peak of this campaign, a gimmicky rally for the disheartened and undeserving GOP. This is much larger than the dogged Hillary campaign and Hillary was much better in essence than either GOP occupant of the ticket. Also we have been there with the crucifixion of Hillary's foreign policy experience so that given time for this to sink in, the grossness will sour the gambit, of the insult of taking Palin at all seriously when she truly is going to go from dependent VP non-entity to power lusting incompetent in dangerous times.

You can't expect a rational, extreme good sense result of the long duped people fighting against the entire mainstream(without the help of the Dem leaders most of the way), but it does look like the momentum is in place to win this one. Instead of worrying about nearly squeaking by, we should be indignant that our full MANDATE will be stolen unjustly, insultingly, by sad, arrogant gimmickry and false news broadcasting. We must get back to aiming, and working for the moon.

[Nikki Stone1]

14. And slamming white women as "stupid" gets you their vote how??

Not a good strategy. Spewing very rarely gets you what you want.

[greguganus]

16. At least the op didn't call them bitches. n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

20. And that's supposed to get you votes, how??

You still don't get it, do you.

[joeglow3]

22. I think s/he was trying to facetious.

[Nikki Stone1]

25. I know. But being facetious with sexist language isn't really the best way to get votes either.

I feel like I am trying to get an elephant to move a half step in the rain.

[Labors of Hercules]

38. It's a good point you make, but I was talking to DU specifically.

and am very glad you called out the language I used as offensive, because it was, deliberately. :loveya:

[joeglow3]

17. Response from head of P.U.M.A.

First of all, don't shoot the messenger as I am simply relaying what I heard.

Last weekend I heard an interview from the head of PUMA on POTIS 130 on XM. He said he and many of his members (which I assume are mostly white women) for 2 reasons:

1. They think women are under-represented in the higher parts of government and see this as their best chance to break the ceiling, and

2. They think the Democratic party needs some reforming (the primary beef he listed was the caucus system). He thinks Palin will shake things up within the Republican party, thereby making it more appealing to voters, thereby forcing the Democratic party to address their concerns.

So, in conclusion, it is more important for them to see a woman as VP than not having all their rights stripped away.

[Nikki Stone1]

23. The PUMA leadership may feel this way. (And they're wrong) But the rank and file

are not all in line. It is those people I am concerned with. The leadership is completely off here. It is no victory to women when a female leader is elected to take their rights away. It's the highest form of betrayal.

The PUMA leadership has its own agenda. But the women who are part of PUMA (and some are women of color) are not nearly so lockstep. For many who have been lifelong Democrats, voting McCain is just impossible. They may vote Green but that may be just as bad.

Here is where Barack Obama can help. I suggest voter outreach in a big way. And not from Hillary or other female surrogates. I mean by the Obama campaign itself.

[progressivebydesign]

35. The head of the "angry women brigade" is a MAN!!!??? That's rich!!

:rofl:

No, seriously, that entire movement was started by the republicans, and some democratic women actually fell for it.

Women are "underrepresented in government", so they fix that by helping the most ANTI-WOMAN candidate get in office? Geez, McCain looks like Bella Abzug next to Palin.

My message to the the head of PUMA: Blow me.

[EstimatedProphet]

42. Quite true

And just how many times do we have to repeat the fact that PUMA is a stealth repub organization before people get it?!?

[joeglow3]

18. Duplicate post

[LibraLiz1973]

24. I am a white woman

And you could not make me vote for a McCain/Palin ticket. They both SUCK.

Your right, she is completely ANTI woman. She turns my blood cold.

[TwilightGardener]

27. I truly don't think those poll demographics are reliable. I would need

to see other stats to confirm. I think Obama lost some women, the ones who vote on emotion and their vaginas, but not THAT many.

[uponit7771]

28. Need to see more polling data now. Blacks wouldn't vote for Clarence Thomas either

[seabeyond]

30. you know, i have been listening to people from day one to say, dont

attack her "real woman" message. that isnt the issue. focus on the real issue. and from day one i have been saying that.... THAT is what you go after. cause that is ALL they have to campaign her on. cause THIS is what you are going to get if we allow the bullshit sisterhood woman shit to go unchallenged. NOW

rape..... rapist bill of rights
rape vicitims pay for rape kits
hubby sits in meetings to make her decision
hubby at all campaign and as much a part of picture taking, wtf
feminist.... not a chance in hell
every parental choice bad

and on and on and on

there is nothing about this woman that is pro woman

[vanderBeth]

32. White woman here-No

Please, we aren't all idiots.

[BlooInBloo]

36. White folks in America have a long and glorious history of voting against their interests.

[Raineyb]

60. So true

And so far it looks like in some quarters that hasn't changed.

It is more than unfortunate.

Regards

[AlphaCentauri]

40. I guess drama queens are taking Mc Same side

is this how those women teach their children to be tolerant?

[joop]

41. I don't have enough posts to post my own thread yet

but I did want to get this out to white women (to tie in with the thread it's in) and any and every woman for comment. Came to me in email last night and I was fast to respond:

Friends, compatriots, fellow-lamenters,

We are writing to you because of the fury and dread we have felt since
the announcement of Sarah Palin as the Vice-Presidential candidate for
the Republican Party. We believe that this terrible decision has
surpassed mere partisanship, and that it is a dangerous farce on the
part of a pandering and rudderless Presidential candidate that has a
real possibility of becoming fact.

Perhaps like us, as American women, you share the fear of what Ms.
Palin and her professed beliefs and proven record could lead to for
ourselves and for our present or future daughters. To date, she is
against sex education, birth control, the pro-choice platform,
environmental protection, alternative energy development, freedom of
speech (as mayor she wanted to ban books and attempted to fire the
librarian who stood against her), gun control, the separation of
church and state, and polar bears. To say nothing of her complete lack
of real preparation to become the second-most-powerful person on the
planet.

We want to clarify that we are not against Sarah Palin as a woman, a
mother, or, for that matter, a parent of a pregnant teenager, but
solely as a rash, incompetent, and all together devastating choice for
Vice President. Ms. Palin's political views are in every way a slap in
the face to the accomplishments that our mothers and grandmothers and
great-grandmothers so fiercely fought for, and that we've so
demonstrably benefited from.

First and foremost, Ms. Palin does not represent us. She does not
demonstrate or uphold our interests as American women. It is presumed
that the inclusion of a woman on the Republican ticket could win over
women voters. We want to disagree, publicly.

Therefore, we invite you to reply here ([e-mail]) with a short, succinct message
about why you, as a woman living in this country, do not support this
candidate as second-in-command for our nation.

Please include your name (last initial is fine), age, and place of residence.

We will post your responses on a blog called "Women Against Sarah
Palin," which we intend to publicize as widely as possible. Please
send us your reply at your earliest convenience. The greater the volume
of responses we receive, the stronger our message will be.

Thank you for your time and action.

VIVA!

Sincerely,

Quinn Latimer and Lyra Kilston
New York, NY
[e-mail]

**PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY! If you send this to 20 women in the next
hour, you could be blessed with a country that takes your concerns
seriously. Stranger things have happened.

******
for reference their site is called http://womenagainstsarahpalin.blogspot.com/ and it's a soul-lifting read. Despite what poll numbers may indicate, this is a collection of real voices connected to other real people.

I'd love it if someone could give it its own thread to keep this buzz up!

[dana_b]

51. beautiful!

I'm going to the site now.

oh, and I'll post it for you.

[wowimthere]

44. Do not buy into that irrational argument that Obama will lose the women's vote to Palin.

The polls are sponsored by CNN, USA Today, ABC, Wallsteet Journal to create perception. David Plouffe is much more trustworthy. He told Wallstreet that their poll was absolutely wrong. Internal polling by candidates are a better barometer.

States that can be stolen are the only poc on the election grid.

[Orsino]

47. They are more likely to support McCain/Palin because Obama is a black man.

I think there are far more racists than there are mutant femi-fascists. Palin may be their excuse, but fear and ignorance are their motivators.

[demo dutch]

48. Chuck Todd said this AM that those polls DO NOT add up .. He stated that

he couldn't see how there's a 20 point swing, and at the same time the numbers overall are tied!

[Eyes_wide_ open]

55. The poll is bullshit

I'm an Independent, white, 50+yrs old woman and I support Barack Obama wholeheartedly. Moreover, with every woman I've talked to the reaction has been WTF? to the Sarah Palin hype. All but one will be voting Obama/Biden, even my mother and my ex's mom, and not one is a Democrat. And that one will come around, she's not yet clear on the issues but I'm working on that, and she knows enough she won't vote for McCain in any case. And no, she isn't racist but comes from the deep south where her family is and they've plastered her inbox with all the bs emails, and gets her news from MSM so I have a lot to counter but the facts will win out.

Even she was flabbergasted by the Palin pick ... and not moved in the least. So, no, I don't think women on the whole will be voting for McCain based on his VP pick. A few perhaps, but not enough to matter. I think those that do would have voted for him anyways, they just needed an excuse and gender bias is more palatable to them than racism.

We need to quit getting so bent out of shape at every little MSM spin and remember what we know. VP picks do not change elections, and while we all have our pet issues and sacred causes, there is one issue that all but maybe 20% of the nation can agree on .. IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID. Let's get our focus back on what will win.

[George_Bonanza]

61. Palin is the Uncle Tom of women

She got where she is pleasing the old boys by not rocking the boat. She is essentially George Bush in drag. Her victory would actually be harmful for women because there will be illusion that gender equality has been achieved, and people may stop being sensitive or respectful towards women's progress in society.