I Think Palin has lost the Conservative Catholic Vote

[berni_mccoy]

As many of you know, I'm Catholic. And most of the conservatives I know are, you guessed it, Catholic. And I can tell you that while they applaud Palin's stance on abortion, they do not take kindly to her comments about community service. Many of the parishes in New England are community service focused. Winters get cold up here and most of the charitable housing, food and clothing come from Catholic and protestant Christian churches that are non-Baptist and non-Evangelical. We are practical minded up here and the best way to practice being a Christian is by doing the things that people need. You know, helping your neighbor type stuff. Making laws to get our way isn't necessarily the fore-front of the thinking here (but it is there).

At any rate, Palin's come off pretty negative to my conservative Catholic friends. Her mockery of community service, her statement that she wasn't saved until she was baptized in a Pentecostal church (that has really angered quite a few Catholics) and the fact that she's been caught in so many lies and used prayer's to God to further her ambition. These are all frowned upon, at least in my circles. They are not trusting of her and they are starting to believe that she's just saying things to get elected.

I don't see her song-and-dance routine holding up with the conservative Catholics from the North East. Furthermore, they are receptive to Obama's outreach to Faith. They believe he is indeed sincere in his public statements of faith.

What are the impressions of other Catholics from around the country?

[crim son]

1. For my Catholic inlaws there is no issue other than the abortion issue.

I swear they'd vote for Beelzebub if he promised to abolish abortion. Seriously.

[moonlady0623]

2. You have my in-laws!

I was so hoping this issue wouldn't rear its ugly head. Abortion is nobody's business but the woman's. Oh, and women have always found a way. My in-laws see that flag and go blindly into the dark along with the other sheeples.

[still_one]

7. Even in the case of rape and incest? /nt

[crim son]

25. Yes.

Even if carrying the child will kill the mother, no abortion.

[WA98070]

8. Ask them what separates man from other animals--their immortal soul, God's gift...

With the soul came the ability to choose right from wrong --free will-- another gift from God. The path to righteousness is not suppose to be an easy one. Who are we to vote away God's gift?
They should look into Catholics for Choice.

War kills more humans than abortion.

Good luck.

[crim son]

26. I have been married for eighteen years and am getting a divorce.

Every possible question that could be asked, I have asked. The MIL is arrogant enough to believe that she has been personally contacted by Jesus, and that she has a special purpose to her life (mainly, to make mine miserable, heh). IOW, she's batshit crazy as are they all.

[rwheeler31]

3. What you do no want help. this woman is crazy.

[FrenchieCat]

4. I think the Jewish vote is out of the window as well for McCain/palin.....

Seems they are not appreciating her Jews for Jesus friends!

[still_one]

6. I hope in Florida they realize that she work for buchanan in 1999 /nt

[FrenchieCat]

9. I'm sure that they soon will know......

don't you worry bout that. :)

[WA98070]

11. He's Saint Patrick of Washington to them now.

[karynnj]

28. I agree

The more that is known, the moderately positive, for a Republican, view of McCain will likely disappear.

[still_one]

5. I would hope so. My roomate in my first year of college was Assembly of God

and in pretty straight terms he told me because I was Jewish that I would burn in hell unless I accepted his religion

gee, what a "christian" thing to say

His views on Catholics were not particularly kind either

[sandnsea]

10. He worked in Catholic parishes

"The US Conference of Catholic Bishops has operated the Catholic Campaign for Human Development, its domestic anti-poverty and social justice program, since 1969. In 1986, the Bishops issued Economic Justice for All: Pastoral Letter on Catholic Social Teaching and the US Economy, which said, "Human dignity can be realized and protected only in community." Senator Obama worked in several Catholic parishes, supported by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development, helping to address severe joblessness and housing needs in economically disadvantaged neighborhoods of Chicago."


http://www.catholicdemocrats.org/news/2008/09/palin_attacks_catholic_communi.php

[cap]

32. correction: Obama has worked for Catholic Campaign for Human Development

Obama is heavily influenced by St. Augustine

[madeline_con]

12. Our Catholic neighbor said he was voting McCain/Palin because

of the abortion issue. He said a lot of people will have to answer to Jesus for killing all those innocent babies.

My husband asked, "What about the war? Don't we have to answer to Jesus for killing all those innocent Iraqis?"

He drifted home...

Again, next day, another neighbor stopped by, our Catholic neighbor was there. I started in about how well the "Say no to sex" education program worked for Palin's daughter. He stomped off across the yard and went home. :eyes:

[RiverStone]

21. What is it with these people that walk blindly in lock-step?!

I'd like to tell your neighbor to try and think for yourself sometime....

He knows not why he does, he just does. :mad:

[kath]

13. It kills me that so many Catholics have gone over to the Repugs in the past few decades -

pretty much because they've become one-issue voters over abortion.
(I was raised Catholic, now atheist)
I remember the days when most Catholics voted Democratic, because the Dems stood for things similar to the *social teachings* of Christ and of the Catholic church (he never taught about abortion, BTW) -taking care of the "least of my brothers" etc, also Catholic social teachings about the rights of workers, etc. Both of my grandfathers were union organizers in the '30s and '40s, devout Catholics, and devoted Democrats. My parents and extended family have continued to vote Democratic, but obviously many other Catholics have thrown post-birth humans under the bus.
To get all in a lather about the rights of fetuses, then IGNORING the lives of the poor and downtrodden and the average working family makes no sense to me.

I remember that old song from "Guitar Mass" back in the late 60s, early 70s -- "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, That you do unto Me".
It sure would be nice if more Catholics would start looking at the big picture.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

14. A friend of mine is a moderate Catholic

who tends towards the conservative on social issues, but he is fiercely against the Iraq war and despises the Chimp and Darth. He is a regular contributor to Catholic charities. Have yet to talk to him about Obama, but this is not going to sit well with him one little bit.

[Booster]

15. I was at the YMCA today for water exercise class. I was talking

to an elderly lady while we were dressing and the election came up. She whispered I'm just so afraid McCain is going to win. At that point I pulled my T-shirt out of the locker and showed her the Obama/Biden logo on the front & her face lit up and she said oh good. She said she had to whisper because her husband was a leader in the Catholic church and how is was a shame she had to whisper she was for Obama. I got dressed and went outside and another lady was sitting on a bench and she said "I love your shirt. If my sister was here she'd give you a big hug". I'm thinking the elderly are getting it and aren't being fooled one bit by McCain or Palin. It was a good day.

[Breeze54]

16. There are also manyJewish and Muslim's that help the poor in New England

BUT I have no idea what different faiths think about palin.

I used to be Catholic but now I'm just amused ....

I will accept your take on her as not being acceptable.

Makes sense to me seeing as how she's a RRW protestant!

I'm pretty sure she's not acceptable by many.

[Bush Lies]

17. Snubs Catholics

Yep, originally a Catholic then she gets Saved as a Charismatic. Pretty offensive to Catholics. Their faith just was not good enough I guess.

[Prefer]

22. BINGO! Catholics are not SAVED in her world

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6991469&mesg_id=6991469

[rufus dog]

18. Help me out Bernie

Is it common for Catholics to pray for their own personal gain. For example I know a good many Evangelical Christians who pray for more sales/more clients. To me it just seemed strange and self focused and want to get your viewpoint.

[WA98070]

19. Yes, but it's wrong. We're not suppose to. That's why we all add, "Thy will be done."

[berni_mccoy]

20. It's one thing to pray to stay gainfully employed. It's another to ask members of the church...

to pray for an Oil Pipeline as she did. And it's wrong for her to say she's on God's mission to be Mayor, Governor, Vice President, etc. That presumes she knows what God's will is.

[eridani]

24. Not at all

Your more ethically sophisticated Catholic kids who want a pony or an iPod are always careful to pray for help for the world's starving children and make me a better person first.

[sandnsea]

41. Pray for forgiveness and self-improvement

I was never taught to pray for material things, not ever. My aunt is the most Catholic woman I know, prays for the babies in purgatory and everything, probably votes Republican because of abortion... and never ever prays for "stuff" or guidance on material things. When she had a leak in the basement, she called a plumber. Prayer never crossed her mind.

[Punkingal]

23. Not all of them vote abortion.

My 82 year old mother-in-law and father-in-law are very devout Catholics, but they always vote for the democrat, and they despise Palin. I already checked with them.

There is hope.

[samuraiguppy]

27. my gf

is catholic kind of--she has only gone to church a couple of times in the 6 years I have known her--but she considers herself Catholic.

She will be voting Obama--YAY.

But she is one of nine children -- yeah they are THAT Catholic )I think my non-religious influence has been good for her lol!

She just got a call from her sister in Florida (closest to her growing up)--who never pays attention to politics and doesn't usually bother to vote. She is married to a NASCAR loving idiot (usually a nonvoter though)--and it seems that he is all fired up about Palin--so now they are intending to vote for McCain.

I need to find out how the rest of her 8 siblings feel.....maybe I can influence some of them....

her family tends to be liberal about some things and conservative about others. For me it is hard to figure religous people out.

[Patiod]

29. Abortion trumps all (and "no birth control" - also a plus)

She could say in a speech how Catholics aren't saved, she could be (and is) opposite the Catholic church on every other issue (war, death penalty, social justice, you name it) and ALL they care about and ALL they will preach off the alter is abortion.

This is a church completely and totally top-down, dominated by old men. And they are OBSESSED with it.

And the fact that she is also against birth control, which is not widely reported, is also a plus with the church leadership. They will be behind McCain/Palin in a BIG way - they've already promised to deny communion to Joe Biden.

That's why I left.

[mrs_p]

30. link, please

first i heard biden was being denied communion

[Patiod]

33. Denied in Denver but not in Wilmington

http://www.tldm.org/News12/Biden'sBishopWillNotPermitHimToSpeakAtCatholicSchools.htm

"The Associated Press reports that Biden received Communion last Sunday at his local parish of St. Joseph on the Brandywine near his home in Greenville, Delaware. Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput commented to AP that Biden should not present himself for Communion given his public support for abortion."

further...

"In an interview with Bob Krebs, the Communications Director for the Catholic Diocese of Wilmington, to which Senator Joseph Biden belongs, Krebs confirmed that Biden's Bishop will not permit the Senator even if elected Vice President of the United States of America to speak at Catholic schools."

I have a lot of admiration for the social justice teachings of the church, and was actually converted to my present Quaker faith because of all the Midnight Mass Peace Vigils I was dragged to with my mother at my family's Catholic church during the Vietnam war (amazing what a son's low draft number will drive a right-wing Republican Catholic mother to do)

[mrs_p]

42. thanks!

i'm a catholic (even tried the convent), but have been thinking of checking out the friends for many years. using the sacrament for political reasons absolutely makes me ill.

[DangerousRhythm]

31. Ex-Catholic here.

In school, we were required to do volunteer work... community service. Fun times! Anyway, I was thinking about something last night. Now, I'm wondering, any chance Bill Donohue would have something to say about community service? Or do you think anti-abortion views would trump that for him? I know he gets very vocally mad at the slightest anti-Catholic sentiment...

[Patiod]

34. Abortion trumps EVERYTHING for mainstream Catholics

Google "Biden" and "denied communion" and read some of the comments from priests.

Abortion trumps everything.

I understand there are a few, isolated, non-mainstream parishes in some areas that buck the trend and concentrate on the social justice teachings of the church (I'm thinking of St. Vincent's in the Philadelphia archdiocese) but by and large It's All About the Abortions

ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION

Maybe a little about the futile effort to convince families not to use birth control (how many 12-kid families do you see in the pews nowadays?) but still, it's Abortion Abortion Abortion 24/7

[DangerousRhythm]

36. Heh, true. Wishful thinking out loud on my part. :D N/T

[NewJeffCT]

35. I have some very devout New England Catholic relatives

and, it's all about abortion to them, sorry to say.

[mmonk]

37. I don't know. I haven't been to church much since 2004.

[fed_up_mother]

38. Many conservative catholics think the Campaign for Human Development

is a communist plot (or something along those lines...) Or parts of it, anyway.

Conservative catholics won't be swayed from the "pro-life" vote.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. I hope this is true because

I was looking at some discussons on the Catholic Community forum over the weekend and they seemed to have held this woman up like a goddess... I had hoped that they had taken note of her dis of "community organizing" - particularly since what Obama had done WAS for a Catholic group. Maybe some of them are slow to realize? OR... maybe I had just stumbled upon repukes who will only vote repuke and it was a choice of staying home or voting for the ticket with Palin.

[yellowcanine]

40. I don't think she will do well with Methodists and Lutherans either.

Particularly the Methodists are strong on community outreach programs and the value of dedicated young organizers like Obama is recognized. And the holy roller snake handling stuff will be off putting to Lutherans in the upper Midwest.