Wesley Clark, no-show at first 2 debates of 2004 - why?

[helleborient]

Wesley Clark is the ONLY candidate other than Al Sharpton to skip both the Des Moines Register and NPR debates. Why??

Even Joe Lieberman, who abandoned his Iowa campaign long ago, is showing up at both debates.

Is Wesley Clark scared of the Midwest?

[unfrigginreal]

1. It's supposed to make him seem above the others

after all he was a 4 star general, why should he have to answer questions along with a bunch of politicians?

[creativelcro]

82. Because he will have to every freaking minute for the job he's running for

It shows that he knows he's toast. He's given up.

[Racenut20]

2. That inferance and question is so dumb I can't wait to see all the threads

[helleborient]

3. So what would you say if George Bush were skipping debates? (n/t)

[SahaleArm]

4. Shaking at the thought of an NPR debate on a Tuesday afternoon...

Don't know - maybe he's campaigning in New Hampshire. Got a link or a source to missing the NPR debate? Does he need to be in Iowa for a radio debate?

[helleborient]

5. NPR this morning said all but Sharpton, Edwards and Clark are expected

Maybe Clark will change his mind at the last minute like with the New Hampshire debate if he fears skipping will be worse than showing up.

[SahaleArm]

7. On a radio debate - Why can't that be done remotely?

If not I can't see any reason for him to travel to Iowa when he could be in NH campaigning.

[helleborient]

8. I don't know - ask Clark

He is the one not showing up. Maybe they have offered the chance to not be there in person.

The reality is every other candidate except Sharpton has been at one of the two debates this year - Wesley Clark has not.

He is not the only candidate not seriously campaigning in Iowa - Joe Lieberman isn't either - so that doesn't hold water as a reason.

[SahaleArm]

10. Why should he waste time in Iowa?

You haven't credibly answered that question.

[helleborient]

Because a national candidate should run a national campaign...

Not simply run in the South and New Hampshire in a desperate attempt to stop one candidate.

Also, the debates give people across the country the opportunity to see candidates face to face. Wesley Clark is denying that opportunity in exchange for running a regionally based campaign.

[SahaleArm]

16. Iowa defines this? NH, SC, OK, AZ, NM, MI, TN, WI is national

Iowa does not define national.

[helleborient]

19. The debates are nationally broadcast...

Assuming that since they take place in Iowa they are only about Iowa is absurd.

[SahaleArm]

22. NPR 2-4 pm should be huge n/t

[HFishbine]

24. I was looking forward to it

Especially since I had submitted a question for Clark.

[helleborient]

25. Clark won't face questioning...that seems to be it (n/t)

[SahaleArm]

30. That must be it - That's why he was on MTP and Hardball n/t

[helleborient]

33. Clark won't face direct comments and questions from fellow candidates

That is different.

[SahaleArm]

36. Has he been to other debates? Yes.

Were they productive? No. Is it worth flying to Iowa for a radio debate? No.

[helleborient]

38. Yes, Wesley Clark wants to be a calculated politician...and avoid

Situations that he doesn't like.

Yep, he's learning fast the wiles of the politician.

[Jack_Dawson]

66. LOL - Is this all you guys have?

Clark is rising in the polls - deal with it.

[helleborient]

69. Hmmm...has gained 1 or 2 points since October...

He needs to rise a bit faster.

[janx]

18. Was he thinking about opting out of the NH debate also?

I hadn't heard anything about this and can't imagine he would do so.

[helleborient]

27. He was going to skip the NH debate for a fundraiser in NY...

And at the last minute reconsidered.

[KittyWampus]

50. That Fundraiser Had ALREADY RESCHEDULED BEFORE

Clark had already rescheduled once and then had to do it again.

Reality check- Clark has participated in other debates... this is possibly the most petty crap yet.

[elixir]

63. Clark was scheduled to attend NH debate but the date was changed..

When it was changed AGAIN, he moved his fundraiser to make the debate. Get your facts straight.

Also, why should Clark be attending the Iowa debates if he's not competing there? It would be nice but it's not necessary.

[grannylib]

6. He was in New Hampshire; he got more coverage doing what he did

than if he were at the debate, which got pretty low viewer numbers

[helleborient]

9. So stump speeches are better for voters than answering questions?

Sounds like Clark wants to control the environment instead of genuinely face the kind of questioning Howard Dean is.

[SahaleArm]

12. What questioning? --- Open your records? No. n/t

[helleborient]

14. The courts are working on that and those who read news know that...

George W. Bush was called a wimp when he didn't want to debate.

[SahaleArm]

20. Courts are working on it while the AG of VT is working against it...

Not impressed with that response or the lame Bush analogy.

[Renew Deal]

26. Dean just has to ask

and they will release them. Instead he is hiding behind his AG friend.

[SahaleArm]

29. Dean won't have a leg to stand on against Bush, Cheney, and Enron...

Until he releases the records...

[helleborient]

31. Change the topic when Clark looks bad...

Good strategy.

[SahaleArm]

32. No I posited the typical Lieberman to Dean Q&A - You responded n/t

[robbedvoter]

34. Running out the clock on the records, uh? reminds me of sumptin'

[readmylips]

13. Sounds like Clark is still doing the repig wool-over-your eyes...

ala boosh and ahnnold the pig.

I was born a democrat, cannot vote for half-ass republican like Clark.

[Lefta Dissenter]

56. That's funny,

there's a different candidate who reminds me more of ahnold. "I'll release my records after I'm elected... just not enough time now, no sireeeeeee, too busy campaigning!"

[helleborient]

70. Lie after lie about the Vermont records...

It is in the hands of a judge now...deal with it, or lie about it. That's all you've got.

[KittyWampus]

51. Stump Speeches? Clark Does About 5 Min. Stumping & Hours Answering Queries

Get some facts behind these increasingly shrill accusations, please.

Clark typically takes about 5 minutes to make an opening stump speech and takes the rest of the time answering questions.

This is obvious to anyone who has seen his Town Hall meetings broadcast repeatedly on Cspan.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

17. it doesn't enhance his credibility

as a Democrat to skip a bunch of debates, even the little tiny NPR Tuesday debates. His main weakness is his lack of any record actually fighting for Democratic values. This isn't helping.

[KittyWampus]

52. He's Attended Several Debates Already

I'd say his newest Tax Policy shows his commitment to fighting for Democratic Values.

Too bad the NYTimes couldn't give his proposal its own column... they combined it in an article that also talked about Kerry's something or other...

The proposal is radical & progressive enough to deserve mention.

[Lefta Dissenter]

57. two is a pretty tiny 'bunch'

and he had opted out of the televised debate because he had planned to be home for the birth of his first grandson. He had missed the birth of his own son when he was in Vietnam... Some people wouldn't know about that, though... too busy skiing.

[Dogfolks]

11. Time and money

He's forgone Iowa in order to concentrate his efforts in NH. He wants a decent 3rd or - hopefully - 2nd place there, and then it's off to the south, where he will do really well.

We should all thank our lucky stars that someone like The General wants to continue serving our country.

[helleborient]

15. His service ends at the Vice Presidency - if not top, nothing

If he can't have the top spot, the general won't serve the country in the 2nd spot.

Apparently his service has self-imposed limitations.

[Dogfolks]

58. No need to talk about VP spot now

What would you think of any candidate who said at this point in the festivities "Yes, I'll take the #2 spot"? He or she would be toast, and would certainly never be nominated for VP.

They're all running for the top spot. Nobody should be expected to tip their cards on VP until the race at least STARTS, or maybe - if we can just be a little more patient - until it's ACTUALLY OVER.

[helleborient]

71. It's not about yes...it's that he absolutely refused....

Of course, since he has changed his mind a number of times in the past, even about which party he supports, he might change his mind.

[jmaier]

76. That is

a silly comment. Has Gov Dean said anywhere that he would support a VP postion? Kerry? Gephardt? Enough said.

[KoKo]

21. Maybe his campaign managers are positioning him as the "dark horse?"

Let the other candidates debate, have the sleeping public say "they're boring" and then Clark comes in as the "unknown" somewhere along.

It might be an interesting strategy. He got in late so he doesn't have alot of money. Maybe this is the way he can make the most impact for the buck.

Outside of DU the American public doesn't know much about him. Actually the average Cable or Reality Show viewer doesn't even know who Dean is.

[Turkw]

23. He is not campaigning in Iowa, Hello- he has been to several debates and

will be to more in the future. The visceral hatred is disgusting. You would criticize him for helping injured people in a vehicle that went off a mountain road. YOU know he did that once, putting himself at risk.

[helleborient]

35. Yes, I know, we're not supposed to criticize a war hero...

Do you criticize George Bush, Sr.?

He was a valiant war hero, too.

Visceral hatred? Clark is my number two.

I just find it insulting to the electorate that Wesley Clark refuses to answer questions like the rest of the major candidates. It does sound wimpy....or it smacks of nasty political calculation.

[Turkw]

75. He has answered every question put to him, he made changes in his schedule

to be in the debate, twice, then it changed again. And more importantly, he answers questions from the voters, us the people in the street, does so at every event he goes to now, I believe, certainly did it at the events I was at.

If you are going to criticize him, do it for something real and not a non issue like this.

[Killarney]

28. Hasn't this been covered 2,000 times already?

He's not campaigning in Iowa. The reasons have been gone over again and again.

[helleborient]

37. Joe Lieberman isn't campaigning in Iowa...but is debating...

Why is Clark wimpier about this than Lieberman?

[SahaleArm]

40. Good for Lieberman - Maybe he'll take another whack at Iowa n/t

[helleborient]

42. Lieberman is many things, but not a wimp in this campaign (n/t)

[SahaleArm]

48. I guess you found a new candidate, congrats n/t

[maxr4clark]

43. Lieberman won't win Connecticut

much less Iowa, no matter how many debates he goes to. Lieberman is going to the debate to slam Kerry and Dean, that's all he seems to do anymore.

This is a decisive action by Clark. He decided not to campaign in Iowa so that he could focus on New Hampshire and the Feb 3 states. He's shown up in debates; he reached the national audience on Hardball and Meet the Press. He hasn't shown any interest in attacking the other Democrats, which is all that happened at the Iowa debate anyway. Not going to Iowa to debate was a strategic win for him, especially if it helps him take second away from Kerry in NH.

[helleborient]

44. So will you call it decisive or strategic when Pres. Bush avoids debates?

Or will you use a double standard...

[SidDithers]

49. If he skips a one on one debate vs Bush when he's the nominee...

Then you'll have a valid point. Not participating in a 9 person slagfest, in a state you're not even contesting, is just smart campaigning.

Sid

[returnable]

55. Bingo!

By the way, go Sabres :hi:

[KittyWampus]

54. Lieberman Can't Pay His Own Staff

And desperately needs any exposure he can get.

Clark is not only NOT desperate... he's Dean's main challenger.

[Racenut20]

39. U R trying to be what is commonly called a "Sh*t disturber"

[helleborient]

41. I'm trying to ask why criticize Bush for avoiding debates...but not Clark?

One afternoon somewhere other than Iowa will make or break Clark's campaign?

If so, he is really skating on thin ice in his campaign.

If it's avoidance...then why?

[LoneStarLiberal]

62. Moreso Margin of Error Than Thin Ice

Avoiding debates in a General Election is a very different beast from avoiding debates in a Primary Election, particularly in a field where finishing one place above the pack or finishing in the middle of the pack could make a huge difference in whether you live through Super Tuesday or have to throw in the towel before Super Tuesday.

It's not so much a matter of thin ice as it is margin of error. Clark has a far more complex decision matrix to consider than Dean. An extra stump speech here and an extra day on the ground there could precisely be what tips the balance in his favor versus Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, and Lieberman.

[zulchzulu]

45. It is a good point

If it was any other candidate, it would be brought up as an issue by the other candidates.

Imagine if Kerry or Dean sat out on a couple of debates. Would no one mention it?

Um....

[TexasSissy]

46. He's not running in IA. I haven't heard anything about the NPR.

I'm not familiar with those debates, either. Never seen one. Maybe that's why he's not participating in that?

I think he has a game plan and is focusing on that. He got in too late to do anything and everything that the others do. He has to be focused on where it counts most.

[helleborient]

47. We Dems. have consistently attacked the Repubs for avoiding debates

But when it's Wesley Clark...it is a game plan and good strategy?

Sounds like a double standard to me.

I want a candidate who won't wimp out from public questioning.

[returnable]

53. Clark has participated...

...in plenty of these debates. So your argument is a weak one. That he has chosen to bypass these two most recent debates to focus on his campaign in New Hampshire is a move of strategy, not avoidance.

If Clark had skipped every debate up until this point (or if these debates actually offered up something more than a series of rehashed soundbites), you'd have something.

[Kahuna]

59. Both Iowa debates where Clark is not competing..

His efforts are better spent where he can make a showing.

[helleborient]

73. Since he can't make a showing nationally...that is EXACTLY the problem

[LoneStarLiberal]

60. Best Use of Resources

I would personally like to see Clark in the NPR debate.

My guess is that with the big emphasis all the non-Dean campaigns are placing on finishing second in New Hampshire and with the slew of other primaries coming up (Arizona, Oklahoma, South Carolina) that Clark and his staffers felt like his time could be better spent continuing to move up in the standings in New Hampshire and making speeches and appearances in the other early primary states where he is running.

As for skipping out on the Iowa Public TV debate, the only question I have is why would you go? I'm a Clark backer, but I don't think he nor Joe Lieberman had any right to be at that debate. They are not running in the caucus, so they don't need to be in the debate that is a focal point for that caucus.

So, instead of "why not show up?", I'll answer "why show up?" To take shots at Howard Dean, that's why. I mean did Joe Lieberman do anything else with his time in the Iowa Public TV debate other than take shots at Dean? Nope. Up to this point Clark has not fallen into the wider pattern of attacking Dean on everything, though he has maintained a steady criticism of Dean's lack of foreign policy experience.

I feel the reason he wasn't at the earlier debate was that he needed that time to campaign in states where he has a chance; basically, it was his best use of resources, time and geography being chief among the resources Clark has to maximize down the stretch.

Let me know if Lieberman does anything today besides smear Dean. Since that's the only reason he has to participate, that's why he is there. Clark can better spend his time running a campaign based on merits and ideas in states where he is running instead of spending his most scarce resource, time, in Iowa trying to paste Howard Dean.

[kentuck]

61. No. He's being a smart politician....

There was nothing to gain in the Iowa debates. The whole purpose of the debates was to permit the other candidates the opportunity to tear down the front-runner, Howard Dean. Clark was wise to sit it out.

[Nashyra]

65. Actually this thread reveals alot about some Dean supporters

Grasping at straws. Clark takes more questions more often than most candidates. If I recall correctly the last major debate televised wasn't it Clark that was 1/2 hour late to the post debate spin room because he was busy answering questions? If you want to be critical of a candidate at least be intelligent about it.

[helleborient]

72. No show...not there...nada...too too busy in New Hampshire...

Instead of running a national campaign.

[windansea]

64. POOP

my first ever poop post (I think)

ahhhhhhhhhhh...

[Jack_Dawson]

67. Debates are beneath Clark

Whenever Clark is forced to share a stage with lessers like Lieberman, it does him no good. He's above all that petty infighting. Clark is about vision...most of the others are about backstabbing, right-wing talking points.

[helleborient]

68. Clark the elitist...pointed out by his supporters

Yes, I think it is a statement he thinks he is "above" campaigning by answering direct questions...just like Bush.

I'm not looking for an elitist for President.

[jonnyblitz]

74. well excuse us

how condescendingly arrogant. :puke:

[helleborient]

77. Your supporter said it first...not me...just look up (n/t)

[Scott Lee]

81. So "let them eat cake" huh?

Thank you for showing us, with no holds barred, why Clark should not be elected. He's an elitist - exactly the kind of creature the New Democrats and the Dean supporters are trying to purge from this losing party.

[BobbyJay]

78. He did it to piss you off. (nm)

[Scott Lee]

79. No, he's just not a good debator.

It is often touted that Clark was on his school's debate team. If so, it had to be in the capacity as a waterboy, because the guy cannot debate.

He gives longwinded and evasive answers.

His delivery is not convincing, you don't get the impression he's actually talking to you.

Off the cuff, he stumbles, stammers, isn't sure of his footing.

If I were his campaign advisers, I'd have him avoid every debate possible.

[BobbyJay]

80. Dean is maybe the worst debator I've seen.