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Could we please stop demoralizing potential campaign volunteers?

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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:35 PM
Original message
Could we please stop demoralizing potential campaign volunteers?
Edited on Mon Aug-30-04 01:18 PM by troublemaker
When you see posts like "this looks bad" and "I'm worried" and "the Kerry campaign is blowing it" it's not helpful. There are thousands of people who don't post here but do look to DU for inspiration. Why demoralize them? The Kerry campaign is not going to do anything different because some people at DU trash them, so what is accomplished?

And we really are getting negative beyond all reason... case in point: Last Thursday there was a much anticipated CNN/GALLUP poll coming out. Many people at DU were talking about how Kerry would be down 8-10 points. The poll was released and Kerry had picked up a point since the last CNN/GALLUP poll. Yet that poll quickly provided fodder for doomsday posts.

Why? The man picked up a fucking point during a month we ran NO ads and were subjected to an unprecedented national smear campaign with the full backing of the national media.

I could write a book on what I think is fucked up about the Kerry campaign, the candidate, the media and the voters. But the fact remains that John Kerry will be elected with a popular vote margin of at least 5 points. That was obvious four weeks ago and it's just as obvious now. Kerry's 44% core support is MORE SOLID THAN BUSH'S BASE. (Between one half and one third of Bush supporters think the Swift Boat liars are... well, LIARS.)

I don't think much of the people around Kerry, but at least they are pros who understand the basics of campaign dynamics. They had NO expectation of being ahead in mid-September. None. (Blowing resources leading into the Republican convention would only add to Bush's convention bounce. Stories released in August would be buried, etc.)

And even if I am full of shit and Kerry is doomed... before posting fear-filled messages, please consider the effect you have on others. There's a scene in FULL METAL JACKET where they are in Vietnam discussing stories for the military newspaper and Joker is making cynical suggestions about reporting the bad news about Vietnam. The editor asks him something like, "Joker, this paper is for soldiers already in Vietnam. Do you think reading that story is going to help any GI make it back home alive?" The point being that the grunts in the field reading the paper had no practical options other than defecting to North Vietnam, so why wreck their morale? It will not help them survive. A similar thing comes up in the Vietnam movie TIGERLAND. An instructor who has seen Vietnam first hand tells a group of recruits that he knows a lot of them question the war. He says he will he happy to discuss the politics of the war with any of them who are still alive in a year. Same brutal point... they are going to Vietnam either way, and since they have no options, dwelling on the negative will not help them survive.

(I chose those examples because I was and am a big supporter of the anti-war movement. But if I had been in Vietnam even I would have preffered good news while I was in country.)

Aside from expressing one's ego, what real world effect do negative posts serve? If the Kerry campaign spends all their time taking our advice it would be different, but they don't and they are not going to start. That's the reality. So grousing serves no possible real-world purpose other than demoralizing other people.

I prefer to die in bed at home, not in a concentration camp. So, given those things we cannot change, what helps us survive?

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veteran_for_peace Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Additionally
I believe that their is going to be a backlash against the Bush Administration for the lies that they are telling through the Swift Boat Liars. I think that you will see things turn around very soon.
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hear, hear!
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. your post worries me
j/k

I know exactly what you're saying. Letting our emotions be swayed minute-by-minute by every miniscule tidbit of election-related news is like day-trading.
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you for writing this.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you. I would add one thing.
Almost everyday the campaign puts out http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases">multiple press releases. For instance so far today they've put out this one:
Edwards Outlines Fundamental Differences on National Security

These are TOOLS for us to use. This is the message the campaign is trying to get out. If you want to help, read these and develop your own talking points - spread the word. Reacting to the Bush campaign's talking points is a lot less productive and helpful.



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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. No discussion unless its cheer leading?
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. that's not what he said at all. Whimpering is not discussion
Saying "I'm scared" at every insignificant piece of news is not "discussion".
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. For the duration, yes. IMO
Many have chosen to be negative. I have chosen to criticize them as thoughtless. You have chosen to question my criticism. Fair enough.

I would love a forum where we could discuss the campaign knowing that our discussion could have no ill effect on the real world, but until the election that forum does not exist.

I am an out-spoken cantankerous smart-ass, and I have a complaint about our standard-bearers that curls my guts into a knot. Yet I have never once commented on it here once it reached a point that I could not possibly change it because now no possible good could come from my criticism, and we are in a 60 day environment where events in the real world are more important than my ability to express myself HERE--in a forum that a lot of new people look to get involved in the election. For the time being, I speak my mind with my friends, but not here on the internet.

We all know who we are voting for, but voting isn't everything. I am unwilling to say anything that might discourage a political neophyte out there from volunteering to knock on doors for Kerry.

That doesn't mean you can't discourage that person. It's a free country and a fairly open forum. Any of us can be negative, and any of us can point out that being negative is counter-productive.

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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. yup n/t
Edited on Mon Aug-30-04 01:17 PM by jonnyblitz
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. nt
Edited on Mon Aug-30-04 01:25 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
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agingdem Donating Member (893 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Agree!
The up-a-point-down-a-point thing is driving me crazy! I called the Kerry campaign to donate money and rant. I spoke to a very nice (patient) man, raved about Bush and his verbal diarrhea, commented on his "miscalculation" comment (I said that a miscalculation is when I'm off a couple of cents when I balance my checkbook. A "miscalculation" is not a thousand lost lives and thousands severely wounded). I said that Bush's "can't win the war on terrorism" was an insult to all those have sacrificed their lives and bodies in Iraq and Afghanistan. I went on to say that the media has to be held responsible for their part in creating this monster (Bush and Company). Believe it or not...I felt better and realized that it's the "woe is me" DUers that have gotten under my skin. No more.
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michigandem2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. I completely agree
all that energy that the naysayers are wasting listening to the media tell us what we know to be untrue can be used to push harder to win this election...
I am fully aware that Kerry will be down next month...but that doesn't mean he is out or that we are doomed...he is a closer...he IS a closer...and i believe he will get it done..
I have my days where I do think things aren't looking good..but then I listen to AAR and read DU or see the protests in NYC..and I feel better...
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted
Edited on Mon Aug-30-04 01:08 PM by Democat
Deleted
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. You are right. My language was divisive.
I was wrong to give in to emotion and thereby divide us. I have changed the headline from "Could we please stop being chumps?to "Could we please stop scaring potential campaign volunteers?"

Thanks for the observation
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Damn, you are too nice - I was getting ready for a fight!
We all want to win - we're on the same team - sometimes emotions get heated. There is nothing wrong with a little disagreement. In the end, we're all working for the same goal.

Kerry has to win this!
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I'm a real prick, so I figure if I can be positive, anyone can.
After the election, win or lose, I plan to unload on some people. And if there was any chance at all that unloading today could make the world batter instead of worse, I would.

But we lack the power to change anything at the top of the campaign. All we can do is to encourage those at the bottom of the campaign. Essentially, each other.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Sorry You Changed The Thread Title Cause Some DU'ers Are Either Chumps
or disruptive... purposely or not.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Agreed, origninal title summed it up better.
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. In other words
don't be a wimp

Bush is a wimp

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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Now I"m really worried
I'll have to wear depends for the next two months...

:(


Lick Laura's Bush - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. I Respect Your Opinion...
However, I think there are too many people here who are highly opinionated on this subject, and they are going to refuse to be silenced.

There was a point when I thought of taking a poll, just to see how many die-hard Kerry supporters were here as opposed to "going with the flow" folks and ABB's.

But I decided not to for pretty much the reason of your post - too negative, and fodder for the other side.

In general, I find the forum.johnkerry.com site to be more positive, supportive and informative on Kerry subjects than this site. As a result, I come here expecting controversy.

Perhaps a general warning is necessary...

This site has DIVERSE OPINIONS that do not necessarily reflect the Democratic Party at-large.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. I liked the unedited version better
Edited on Mon Aug-30-04 01:24 PM by quinnox
I'm getting weary of all the negativity here. Whether it be the typical doom and gloomers or stealth freepers. If it was up to me this b.s. wouldn't be tolerated at all, on penalty of banning. Hey, that's just me though and I don't run DU. But I'm sure there might be a well timed atmosphere "adjustment" coming if enough Duers get tired of this nonsense.
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TheRovingGourmet Donating Member (524 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. Negativity is not good but preparing volunteers for what they
may face and have to deal with is a good thing. Where to draw the line between "fair warning" and general whining can be hard to determine though. :)
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