Dean Hasn't Got a Prayer in Dixie

[Karmadillo]

Pinkerton's comments about the fading of the United States' classical civic faith are worth reading. The LA Times requires registration.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-pink6jan06,1,436125.story

Dean Hasn't Got a Prayer in Dixie
By James P. Pinkerton

<edit>

Explaining his clumsiness, Dean said, "I am not used to wearing religion on my sleeve."

But by using those particular words, he piled verbal klutziness on top of religious clumsiness. A proud Christian would be unlikely to admit wearing religion on his sleeve, because ostentatious devotion is directly condemned by Jesus. In Matthew 6, Jesus denounced "hypocrites" who turn praying into showing off.

Instead, Jesus commanded his followers, "when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen." And so one might wonder: If Jesus disdained showy prayer, how would he feel about showily praying politicians?

In fact, in a country full of many faiths — and of many people with no faith at all — the public's business is best conducted by those willing to keep their own beliefs close to their hearts, but never on their sleeves. That's what the founders had in mind when they created the American republic. For the most part, Washington, Jefferson & Co. were believing Christians, but for their political inspiration they didn't look to Moses or Jesus but rather to the pagan Greeks and Romans — and also to theological radicals such as the Freemasons. That's why early American public buildings look like Greco-Roman temples, and why there's that Masonic pyramid on the back of the dollar bill, and not a cross.

That classical civic faith has faded. Today, candidates clamber onto the Born Again Express. And Dean will never catch up with Bush, who said in 1999 that his favorite political philosopher was Christ.

more...

[giantrobot_2000]

1. ...

Take the last train to Clarksville and I'll meet you at the station..."

[bluestateguy]

2. Winning the Conservative White Vote

You take away the white male vote in 2000 and Al Gore wins in a landslide.

[HFishbine]

3. Is this about the south?

Or are you extrapolating based on some stereotype of southerners?

[DemDogs]

4. Dean getting used to the Southern "mileau"?

In the Iowa debate Dean said something about getting used to the Southern mileau. Mileau is a word people read and understand in the South. It is not a word that is used in conversation. That gaffe was emblematic of the reason that Dean will fail in the South. He doesn't speak the same language: on values, on faith, on race, and even in words.
This is important, too, because we need to win states in the South and midwest.

[HFishbine]

6. More southern stereotyping

"We don't use too many big words, ya'll. We don't know what milieu means, but at least we can spell it."

[colonel odis]

15. thanks for the sterotypes

while i had my tongue down my sister's throat this morning, i set down my dale earnhardt moonshine jug long enough to peek out and see my next door neighbor's "dean for america" sign. sorry. gotta go! hee haw re-reruns are on you, know.

dr. dean will do just fine down here.

[DemDogs]

24. Southerners don't have as much pretense -- this was a compliment

I live in a college town in the South. The academics know how to use the English language -- and they see that Southerners know how to use the English language too. But they don't use it to impress. They use it to communicate to everyone around them.
Some people think they impress by using words that not everyone who hears them will understand. Some doctors do it. Some lawyers do it. They think it elevates them. Southerners see it for what it is and we don't like it.

[Anaxamander]

20. LOL! I'm a southerner and I've never heard of "mileau"--I think you mean..

..."milieu."

And, yes, I can pronounce it too. They offer French even in southern high schools and colleges, you know.

[demnan]

5. This is a great subject

I didn't read the entire article (everytime I register on one of those things I get more spam) but I certainly recognize the pattern. In the sixties JFK never mentions religion although his discussions of civic duty took on an almost spiritual intensity.

I think so many people have been convinced that government is evil that they feel no civic duty anymore. Thank you talk radio.

On edit: I don't see what this has to do with your title, however.

[Karmadillo]

8. Sorry for the lack of clarity. I edited the post

to show the title of the thread came from the article. Also noted registration is required (as far as I can tell, I haven't gotten any additional spam since registering).

[helleborient]

7. Dean leads a number of polls in the South...Clark is nowhere in Midwest

So...why is it Southern candidates always assume candidates from outside the South can't do well there, but they can do well outside the South? Regional hubris?

Anyhow...I've seen polls showing Dean leading in Virginia, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida...with Clark leading in one poll in Oklahoma, one of his neighboring states.

Clark is nowhere in Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois...why is he not running a national campaign?

Why is he skipping the first 2 debates of this calendar year - even Joe Lieberman, who abandoned his Iowa campaign, is showing up for the Des Moines Register and NPR debates...Clark seems to be running scared and only doing serious campaigning in the South.

[Cheswick2.0]

13. he seems to be running for Cheney's job

He says he won't be Dean's VP (as if the "offer" was made rather than the possibility talked about). He isn't running a national campaign, so what is he running for? I'm kidding about Cheney's job. We all know he is a loyal democrat after all.

[Cheswick2.0]

9. have this guy ever read the bible?

This verse quoted is about prayer. I don't remember Dean saying he was going to Pray out loud in the temples. Using that verse against religious people is a tired old argument and dishonest. It is rebuking a certain group of people (the disciples) at a particular point in time. He was telling them not to be hypocrites like the pharisees.

Here is something else he said to them, this quote is from Mark 16:Verse 15

He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

and here is another one:
Matthew 5:15-16


Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

****************************************************
In conclusion, don't make a display of your personal prayer(corporate prayer is of course communal) as if that proves you are better than others and have a direct connection to God. Do go into the world and talk about what you believe.

So before people who don't believe in the bible try to use it for their own purposes (I think that might be called hypocrisy)they should really study it.

On edit: the original poster took out his/her comments about Christians keeping their religion undercover.

[Karmadillo]

16. Incorrect. I removed nothing from my post. On edit, I added only

the title of the original article and a note registration was required by the LA Times.

[SayitAintSo]

10. Jefferson was not a Christian...He was a Deist - BIG Difference

There were other Deists as well, Franklin and others. The RW Christian Coalition lie about this fact often. They like to say our country was founded on Christianity becuase all the founding fathers were Christian - not so.

But to the other point ... Yes I believe - Dean hasn't a prayer in Dixie !

[Cheswick2.0]

11. no he was a christian

he attended church weekly. He was called a deist by other more fundamentalist christians of the time.

[helleborient]

12. There is long-standing controversy among historians...and no consensus

As to whether Jefferson and Franklin were really Christians, or some other representation of faith. Deists and Christians are not mutually exclusive either.

Both Jefferson and Franklin have been co-opted and claimed by multiple sides in religious debates in the past...these two posts about Jefferson are simply continuing the long-standing controversy.

I have seen nothing to indicate without doubt that Jefferson was either Christian or not Christian - his own writings are inconclusive and unfortunately he's not around anymore to ask.

[Cheswick2.0]

14. he went to church and served on the board of Elders

I think that is pretty conclusive. Like most of us he had very mixed feelings about what he believed and what it meant.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

18. None of our candidates can out-pander Bush when it comes to religion

And I'd really hate to see them try. If this means that they have no chance in the South, so be it. Hopefully Southern voters will be thinking of more earthly issues come the general election.

[Hep]

19. When trying to learn about politics in the south

I always go to the LA Times.

[SeattleRob]

21. I think we'll all be surprised...

Do not count out Dr. Dean in the south. Bush has a huge albatross around his neck - his record. He will try sugar coating his record, and "shaping" the debate on issues like Gay marriage and the flag. It will not work. Southerners, like all Americans do not like the direction George is taking our country. The military rank and file personnel is also very pissed off. Do not believe all the propaganda you hear from the corporate media.

The republican pollsters are not idiots and they know their boy Georgie is in trouble.

[PATRICK]

25. Bush's negatives not enough

Simply put, Dean has to crave out his own majorities down South if possible, and most people by temperament are not emotionally tuned or comfortable with Born Again types. That is only kowtowing to current political machine strength and fear of the irrational. I think if Dean blows by the issue it can't be any worse than by simply being a Northerner. It's about the majority and fresh air. It's about ignoring the unwinnable in the small stuff. Kennedy took some of the South with charm, his Veep and MLK, but not all of it and his problems at that time may have been worse in public opinion. It's about strengths not weaknesses. For his breezy aplomb does Dean have deep enough appeal nationally? That's what primaries are for and if a primary "win" paints a false picture I hope we can figure that out, but that is yet to come.

Nerves of steel, knees of jelly. Wake me up in June.

[BurtWorm]

22. This is another simplistic misreading of a Dean statement.

And another grandiose pretension to understand "the Southern mind" and how it will react and recoil as one to Dean's open courtship of Southerners. It remains to be seen how Dean's advances will be received in the South. He seems to be doing fine in South Carolina, anyway.

[otohara]

23. Do dah, do dah

I will pray that the white southern male will vote for the future of his children vs the ego of his white self and his organized church