Kerry, Bush I, and Bush II

[liberalmike27]

http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20040106/D7VT0PP80.html

This paragraph is particularly funny: In a recent focus group conducted by one of Kerry's rivals, Iowa voters said the staff shake-up defined Kerry's campaign for them. Officials familiar with the focus group, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the voters suggested they were taking a fresh look at Kerry - in part due to TV ads in which he promises to fight special interests.

*******end***

Kerry, being tied to the Skull and Crossbones, the most revered group at Yale, who are at the least a nepotistic power and business interest sharing group, at most a war-mongering world-control group, is going to fight "special interests." I find that absolutely hilarious. Being connected and indebted to one of the most powerful group of 800 or so of the richest most powerful people in all of America, seems directly in conflict with Kerry fighting special interests. It would seem, that this is an incredible conflict in interests, since the very charter of the group requires the members--forbidden to even discuss the group in public witnessed by Kerry's abrupt dismissal upon Tim Russert asking a question about his bonesman status--to work toward lifting all the other groups interests up, and that is quite special. Both Bush presidents are also members, Kerry was tapped in 1966, the current Bush in 1968, not so far apart. Fifteen are tapped from each class-year at Yale.

Clearly, Bush has served these people, both directly and indirectly through his actions, and the huge tax cut he gave this elite group of millionaires and Billionaires. Will Kerry feel the same level of loyalty to his rich influential friends? He certainly showed it in his Meet the Press appearance, by refusing to discuss his membership, and all that this entails. Just the fact that this group of 900 or so members could possibly occupy both major party positions in the presidential election, shows what power and influence this secretive cabal of world influence, wields over the reigns of power in this country.

[seventhson]

1. ANY QUESTIONS? Answers can be found here

http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc808.html

with lotsa very cool links to impress your friends and your freeper relations!

[blm]

2. Get real. Kerry exposed more Bush corruption than ANY lawmaker

and more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history. Almost everything we now know about the BFEE comes from Kerry's investigations and diligent pursuit of BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning.

You think the Bushes are happy about Kerry exposing all THIS?

A Full Service Bank: How BCCI Stole Billions Around the World
by James Ring Adams, Douglas Frantz (Contributor), Jane Chelius (Editor)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671729128/qid=1043078199/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-0326214-5431272

False Profits: The Inside Story of BCCI, the World's Most Corrupt Financial Empire
by Peter Truell, Larry Gurwin (Contributor)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0395623391/qid1043078199/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-0326214-5431272?v=glance&s=books

The Outlaw Bank: A Wild Ride into the Secret Heart of BCCI
by Jonathan Beaty, S. C. Gwynne (Contributor)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679413847/qid=1043078199/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-0326214-5431272?v=glance&s=books

Dirty Money: BCCI: The Inside Story of the World's Sleaziest Bank
by Mark Potts, Nicholas Kochan, Robert Whittington (Contributor), Nick Kochan (Contributor)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0915765993/qid=1043078199/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/002-0326214-5431272?v=glance&s=books

Banking Scandals: The S&Ls and BCCI (The Reference Shelf, Vol 65, No. 3)
by Robert Emmet Long (Editor)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0824208420/qid=1043078199/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/002-0326214-5431272?v=glance&s=books

The BCCI affair : hearings before the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations of the Committee on Foreign Relations, United States Senate, One Hundred Second Congress, first session
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0160372550/qid=1043078199/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/002-0326214-5431272?v=glance&s=books

Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) investigation : hearing before the Committee on Banking, Finance, and Urban Affairs, House of Representatives, One Hundred Second Congress, first session
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0160376653/qid=1043078199/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/002-0326214-5431272?v=glance&s=books



From the congressional report on BCCI, all of which relate to what happened on 9-11 and everything else going on in the world of the BFEE.

Kerry's questions:

These questions are still to be answered in the investigation of BCCI in the United States.

1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.

2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.
\
3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.

4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al- Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.

5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.

6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.
7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British

investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.

8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including
the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.

9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich
remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.

10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political
figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.

11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.

12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.

13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.

14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.

15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.

16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.

17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.

18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.

19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.

20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.

from: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/24appendic.htm

AND MORE:

From "The Outlaw Bank", pp.119-121, by Jonathan Beaty and S.C. Gwynne, Random House, 1993:

"...Kerry and Mueller duelled politely over whether the plea bargain with BCCI in the Tampa money-laundering case was a giveaway. Mueller insisted that the Justice Department had won a major victory. He also disputed any charges that his department had not proceeded vigorously with further investigations, and he ignored Senator Kerry's attempt to bring up the subject of the missing tape of Blum's interviews with the former BCCI bankers who talked about political payoffs and BCCI's secret ownership of First American. When Koppel tried to point out that the assistant attorney general had not answered the Senator's question about the missing tapes, Mueller ignored him too and bragged that BCCI's offices in Florida had been shut down as a result of information the Justice Department provided the Florida banking regulators.

Kerry was beginning to sputter, and Beaty, outraged enough at Mueller's deceptive tactics to forget that he was on national television, jumped in. "But Mr. Mueller--I'm sorry, but the senator is quite accurate. You may have provided the reason for shutting down the bank by convicting it of money laundering, but then a very high-level person in your own department turned around and asked the State of Florida to keep this bank open, despite the fact that your own prosecutors had testified that drug-money laundering was a policy of the bank and that it wasn't a matter of employees taking some kind of independent action. When you plea-bargained out, you let the bank go and took the low-level employees, which is kind of in reverse..."

...Koppel <...> broke it up and turned to Time's charges that U.S. intelligence agencies employed BCCI as a means of funding covert operations and asked if that might have had something to do with the Justice Department's limited response to evidence. "That is absolutely incorrect...there is just no truth to the allegation and unsupported allegation that the intelligence community is in any way trying to shape or stop this investigation.," Mueller stated...

..."Mr. Mueller," Beaty cut back in, "we haven't made the accusation that this has been shaped by the intelligence community. All we have tried to do is point out the stunning lack of curiousity and aggression on the part of the Justice Department."....

[seventhson]

3. Nice Talking Points Memo But WHY then did he CLEAR BUSH?

With all that corruption why was Bush NOT nailed and prosecuted.

You seem to forget that Kerry's investigations were cowritten with a Republican and that NEITHER of the reports recommended prosecutions of Bush or named Bush as a target for further investigation.

In other words, all that expsoing of corruption and greed and illegality and Kerry never laid a FINGER on Bush.

so...


Bush WALKED!

And Kerry let him walk....


Why should we expect anything different from him in the future when he has SWORN his allegiance to his fellow Bonesmen , he is STILL a Bonesman, and he CONTINUES to observe his OATHS of Silence and Loyalty to the ORDER of Skull and Bones!


I like what Alexandra Robbins says in here interview linked above: NO Skull membersshould be allowed such power as the presidency!

[blm]

4. He DIDN'T clear Bush.

That's one of the untruths that Kerry detractors perpetuate. The Dem leaders pulled Kerry off the Senate committee because they said he was "too hot" and Kerry then went on to IranContra which he exposed and turned over to an Independent Counsel who you KNOW never cleared Bush and Reagan and in fact, Bush1 pardoned most of those who were set to go to trial.

In fact, when it appeared that the Senate was going to let much of BCCI drop, Kerry turned over his subcommittee info to Robert Morgenthau in NY to have him prosecute it through his state.

Here's more on that from the executive summary:

Acting on information provided him by the Subcommittee, New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau began an investigation in 1989 of BCCI which materially contributed to the chain of events that resulted in BCCI's closure.
Questions asked by the District Attorney intensified the review of BCCI's activities by its auditors, Price Waterhouse, inEngland, and gave life to a moribund Federal Reserve investigation of BCCI's secret ownership of First American.

The District Attorney's criminal investigation was critical to stopping an intended reorganization of BCCI worked out through an agreement among the Bank of England, the government of Abu Dhabi, BCCI's auditors, Price Waterhouse, and BCCI itself, in which the nature and extent of BCCI's criminality would be suppressed, while Abu Dhabi would commit its financial resources to keep the bank going during a restructuring. By the late spring of 1991, the key obstacle to a successful restructuring of BCCI bankrolled up Abu Dhabi was the possibility that the District Attorney of New York would indict. Such an indictment would have inevitably caused a swift and thoroughly justified an international run on BCCI by depositors all over the world. Instead, it was a substantial factor in the decision of the Bank of England to take the information it had received from Price Waterhouse and rely on it to close BCCI.
>>>>>

[blm]

11. THIS is how Kerry covered for Bush? HAHAHA...BCCI exposed Arbusto

and its connection to the Bin Ladens and the other dirty deals of the Bushes at the time.

From "Questionable Ties: Tracking bin Laden's money flow leads back to Midland, Texas", by Wayne Madsen:

In 1979, Bush’s first business, Arbusto Energy, obtained financing from James Bath, a Houstonian and close family friend. One of many investors, Bath gave Bush $50,000 for a 5 percent stake in Arbusto. At the time, Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, head of the wealthy Saudi Arabian family and a brother (one of 17) to Osama bin Laden. It has long been suspected, but never proven, that the Arbusto money came directly from Salem bin Laden. In a statement issued shortly after the September 11 attacks, the White House vehemently denied the connection, insisting that Bath invested his own money, not Salem bin Laden’s, in Arbusto.

In conflicting statements, Bush at first denied ever knowing Bath, then acknowledged his stake in Arbusto and that he was aware Bath represented Saudi interests. In fact, Bath has extensive ties, both to the bin Laden family and major players in the scandal-ridden Bank of Commerce and Credit International (BCCI) who have gone on to fund Osama bin Laden. BCCI defrauded depositors of $10 billion in the ’80s in what has been called the “largest bank fraud in world financial history” by former Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau. During the ’80s, BCCI also acted as a main conduit for laundering money intended for clandestine CIA activities, ranging from financial support to the Afghan mujahedin to paying intermediaries in the Iran-Contra affair.

When Salem bin Laden died in 1988, powerful Saudi Arabian banker and BCCI principal Khalid bin Mahfouz inherited his interests in Houston. Bath ran a business for bin Mahfouz in Houston and joined a partnership with bin Mahfouz and Gaith Pharaon, BCCI’s frontman in Houston’s Main Bank.
...
Though Bush told the Wall Street Journal he had “no idea” BCCI was involved in Harken’s financial dealings, the network of connections between Bush and BCCI is so extensive that the Journal concluded their investigation of the matter in 1991 by stating: “The number of BCCI-connected people who had dealings with Harken—all since George W. Bush came on board—raises the question of whether they mask an effort to cozy up to a presidential son.” Or even the president: Bath finally came under investigation by the FBI in 1992 for his Saudi business relationships, accused of funneling Saudi money through Houston in order to influence the foreign policies of the Reagan and first Bush administrations.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/25/25/feature3.shtml

[blm]

21. and more...

From the new edition of The Octopus: Secret Government and the Death of Danny Casolaro:

"Recall that Casolaro had only days left to live when he took his friend Ben Mason down into his basement and proudly showed him several photocopied pages documenting contra arms transfers involving Khashoggi and a partner, Manucher Ghorbanifar, as well as the copies of BCCI checks drawn on Khashoggi's accounts. Mason later reported that Casolaro was elated over a source he was about to meet in West Virginia, someone Casolaro described to Virginia McCullough as being involved in guns-and-drugs transfers. And, of course, Casolaro had told his fellow hotel guest, Mike Looney, that he was meeting with an Arab.

"... Khashoggi, Gorbanifar and journalist/Israeli foreign adviser Amiram Nir attempted to persuade (Australian tycoon and Mohammed Al Fayed adversary Tony) Rowland to join the Iran-contra effort by helping sell arms to Iran.... It seems very likely that Casolaro knew about this alliance between Dodi Fayed's maternal uncle, Khashoggi, and his father's bitter enemy, Rowland.
...
"The amount of attention and detail Casolaro brought to all this parahistory remains lost in the accordion file that disappeared after his death...."

[seventhson]

29. There is nothing here about Kerry

If Bushes were implicated WHY did Kerry not name them or go after them.

Even Morganthau does not mention the Bushes in this article.

And this was a Wall Street JOURNAL Investigation - NOT Kerry's.

It has nothing to do with Kerry (not in THIS article)

[blm]

34. Kerry's work was the BASIS for all others.

You know it but will never admit it.

[kerrygoddess]

36. Not Kerry's Job to Prosecute Bush

Re: "Bush WALKED!

And Kerry let him walk...."


Hello! Reality check here!

Kerry is a Senator not a Prosecutor. Kerry exposed these things against Bush, but Kerry can not serve as Prosecutor, Judge and Jury!

Get a Clue!

[oasis]

10. Whoa! A ton of information. Anyone who's genuinely interested see post #2.

[seaglass]

5. You forgot to mention the Clinton-Bush cocaine deal in

Arkansas and how Bush promised Clinton the Presidency if he waited until '96:eyes:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. Has Kerry said anything about the BCCI trial going on right now?

Has he been bragging about his long investigation? Or was that just a white-wash? I'm listening but I'm not hearing anything...

[blm]

8. The trial hasn't started.

It starts Jan.13.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. so he'll say something Jan.13?

I can't wait.

[blm]

12. Who is going to give him a week of airtime to explain it to

the American people?

Hell, many of the smart people here at DU haven't even been able to grasp the scope of BCCI and its importance to 9-11.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. then put it up on his website

No more excuses. Kerry's been worthless as far as I can tell. If he can't do anything, than he can't do anything. Send him a watch for his good service and stop wasting our time.

[blm]

17. THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

Have you read NOTHING?

Have you no sense of what BCCI, IranContra revealed to the world and to us?

You see NO worth in that exposure?

There are more than a few books listed above that would argue against your silly, petulant, kneejerk, blind to reality assertion.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. what has he done during the campaign?

besides bitch at Dean and vote for the war? If Kerry said at the debates anything about BCCI or Iran Contra or the long history of criminality, it might mean something.

Instead, he's pretending to smoke a joint on some TV show to impress us with how cool he us. WHAT A JOKE.

He's wasting our time. Kerry needs to put up or shut up.

[blm]

20. That's YOUR bias.

It's not the truth based in the reality of the circumstances. That's for sure. Those of us who have been keeping tabs on this story in earnest, know that it will take a concerted effort to bring it out and its connections to 9-11, so the American people can understand it.

YOU can trust the media. WE do not.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

23. yeah, well, when Kerry says something in public

let me know

[blm]

25. He has said that 9-11 has its roots

in BCCI and the international funding of terror he exposed there. He said that shortly after it occurred.

He'd be well on to explaining more to the American people about Bush if Dean wasn't given all the oxygen by the media for almost a year now.

YOU trust that the media was innocently focusing on Dean. I do not and believe that the BCCI case coming up soon is a big part of why BushInc, needed Kerry off the national stage BEFORE he had media focus on just him and his spokespeople (like Gary Hart, Joe Wilson and Rand Beers) as the nominee.

[adadem]

22. Kerry didn't start

the war of words...Dean starting firing the shots a year ago (while Kerry was recovering from surgery). I'm so sick of everybody but Dean getting blamed for the tone of the primary...Dean set the tone and I'm glad they're all (Lieberman included) returning the fire.

[sandnsea]

7. Yes, the Bushies are HUGE fans!!!

They loved it when he exposed all the scandals in the 80's and can't wait for him to turn his fire on them after the primaries. You betcha', it's a big ol' S&B love fest! :eyes:

[liberalmike27]

13. Not

I'm not reading all of that, But BCCI brings images of secret deals between Bush and Noriega, Bush/Reagan and Iraq, and Iran, CIA and drug-dealing.

The Bush family is no better than a crime family to me, and Kerry's unfortunate association with this group is enough to turn me off to his candidacy, that is all I know.

Good link to Alexa's site. I read that book.

All I can say is that it makes me very uncomfortable for politicos--who already have so many who give them campaign contributions that they are beholding to--to have this many direct associations that they may, or may not give special favors to, or even general ones that go far beyond the group.

Clearly it goes far beyond a college fraternity. Some people dismiss everything, but where there is smoke, there is fire.

[blm]

16. Kerry is the one who went AFTER Bush and their covert dealings.

How in the world can you believe that the Bushes WANTED Kerry to expose North, Noriega, the drug deals, the terror funding of BCCI and IranContra?
That's just irrational, and ignores the RECORD of his work. and its discoveries.

>>>>>
As Oliver North had pioneered the use of the counter-terrorism office in dealing with narco-terrorists like Monzer al-Kassar (connected to the Pan Am explosion over Lockerbie), would it be such a stretch to posit that the counter-terror apparatus - this time under Richard Clarke and John O'Neill - was once again being employed to "work" the corrupt networks wrought by BCCI?  Can it be a mere coincidence that the arteries of the bin Laden strain of terrorism were fed not by Iran or Syria - the "traditional" sponsors of the more low-key types of terrorism in the '80's - but rather by those very countries that have long served as agents and proxies of their American-Anglo cohorts in crime:  Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United Arab Emirates (i.e. the principal countries fronting for BCCI)?  Could it be that the mutually corrupt global relationships wrought by BCCI persist to this day, with a bevy of compromised political officials standing ready to make their contribution to the New World Order - and perhaps scam some extra pocket change on the side? 

As they say - follow the money.  And where are the big movers and shakers of 9/11 - those who are interpreting the threat for you - putting their money?  In vaccines, pharmaceuticals, bio-tech, utilities, security consulting, and surveillance technologies.  In other words, they are shifting their money toward those burgeoning industries  where they can simply legislate the market need - the favored modus operandi of the "Establishment" captains of industry who had formerly used their clout in the political sector to secure their all-important interests in the oil and banking sectors. 

And what of FBI Director Robert Mueller?  Was it a coincidence that he was  consistently chosen to oversee cases in which the whole bloody mess - Gotti, BCCI, Noriega et al - had threatened to spill over the "officially" designated sides?  Was it a result of happenstance that Mueller officially had taken up his job  as FBI Director only one week before September 11?  Is it Mueller's job to cover the paper trails - or just cover them up?    
>>>>>>

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP310A.html

[sandnsea]

24. He exposed them

How can you put somebody in the same category as the very people he exposed?? How does that logic fit?

[zulchzulu]

14. Is that a real tinfoil hat or a Sears tinfoil hat?

Ask the hundreds of people what were part of Yale's Skull and Crossbones frat who are writers, artists, poets, philantropists, musicians, physicians, scientists and other evil professions how they are controlling the World from some little cave in the middle of the Rockies with black helicopters aiming to get you!!!

Whenever I see someone bring up the S&B tinfoil hat theory, I know that it's coming from the paranoid mind of a garden-variety conspiracy theory stooge.

[salin]

18. This is ludicrous and inflamatory.

The senator's long record quite well distinguishes him from even more moderate/centrist democrats, let alone GOP and extreme GOP.

Comparing a major candidate to the bushes is... well unseemly. To raise questions is one thing - to hurl unfounded allegations and smearing allusions - is quite another.

[PATRICK]

26. MInus the Skull and Bones

entertainment, it remains to be seen whether this campaign originated "fresh look" from voters is stronger than the hopeful push PR it seems at first glance. Valiant efforts need to be phrased more strongly if stronger things are actually happening. Kind of late in the game to get momentum from nuances. I know if i met or saw Kerry I would be very enthusiastic- and still unchanged later when it came time to vote. "Fresh look" could imply disenchantment with Dean or prior disapproval of Kerry.

Such is the state of primary affairs and the true picture seems always to glimmer through the rhetoric. I never got the whole frat picture anyway. In my day they were actually on their way out compared to past generations, a haven for clubbish elites with not much of value to offer other than good old boy connections. The I didn't go to an Ivy League college for greatness either. But to blow this up into the Vast Conspiratorial Unknown resembles too much the childish distortions of the Right Wing, probably more than Kerry has anything in common with Bush and other frat keg busters.

[seventhson]

27. Read the Interview I posted above and THEN respond

Note to self: is one of the sponsors of the REpuke antiDean ads in Iowa "the Stephens Group" whom Clark worked for?

I saw it on another thread which I lost track of before it clicked.

Why is Clark's last employer posting a Republican antiDean ad?

I wonder...


makes you go Hmmmmm....!

[blm]

28. No. It's Stephen Moore, Dean's CATO Institute buddy

who said in 1997 that Dean was "finally, a Democrat they could work with." (Based on Dean's penchant for deregulation as governor.)

They had maintained a relationship over the years, and that is why I think Moore is doing these ads. To solidify the base to defend Dean.

[seventhson]

30. Ummm, Stephen Moore AND Jackson Stephens of the Stephens Group

Well - Gee - Nice of Dean' friend to attack him now.

HOW exactly is this attack ad helping Dean? By comparing him to Bin Laden (I haven't seen the ad, but Jackson Stephens who Clark worked for is on this list of the "Club for Growth" which sponsored the ad attacking Dean.

Here's the list:

Board of Directors

Richard Gilder
Thomas L. Rhodes
Stephen Moore

Membership Director

Lynn Bradshaw

Executive Director

David Keating


Economic Policy Council

Wayne Angell
Pete du Pont
Mallory Factor
George Gilder
Charles Kadlec
Robert Kasten
Lawrence Kudlow
Arthur Laffer
Paul Craig Roberts
Brian Wesbury
Founders Committee

Frank Baxter
Jean Belanger
Brent Bozell
Terry Considine
Harlan Crow
K. Earl Durden
David Hartman
Patricia Herbold
Charles Hilton
William J. Hume
Lawrence Kudlow
Leo Linbeck
Virginia Manheimer
Lisa Nelson
D.C. Searle
Rex Sinquefield
Jackson T. Stephens, Jr.
Alex Van Rensselaer
Richard Weiss
Louis Woodhill


link: http://www.clubforgrowth.org/staff.php

[blm]

35. Wrong ad.

The Usama ad was a Dem labor group that went after Dean.

This Iowa farmer ad is so way overthetop it could only help Dean by rallying the left to defend him.

[worldgonekrazy]

31. The Skull and Crossbones thing is stupid

Why not focus on Kerry as a Bush enabler in that he does shit like vote for their illegal unjustified wars?

[seventhson]

33. No it is NOT! The REASON Kerry is a Bush enabler is because of

these sociopolitical ties to the Bushes.

Bush's family goes back in the fascistic Skull and Bones for more than a century.

So does Kerry's family. In fact the Kerry Forbes ancestors were FOUNDERS of Skull and Bones.

Both Kerry and Dubya were therefore "legacy" members - those with special admission as children or descendants of "Bonesmen"

In the 1940's and 1950's members of skull came to control the "national security" apparatus (CIA, NSA, and their equivalents throughout government).

This is when the pattern of political assassinations of democratic leaders globally began in eanest.

The head of CIA personnel was a Bonesman in the 1950's.

This is new to many, but it is serious business to me. Read the article above (Interview linked with Alexandra Robbins about her book and why Kerry should NOT be President (nor Bush or ANY Skull!)).

I can post the link AGAIN if anybody wants (but it is one of my posts above in this hread already)

THEN tell me it is baloney.

[seventhson]

32. Clark's last Employers (Stephens Group) behind the Nasty Dean attack ads?

I posted the link to the "Club for Growth" Members in a post above.

They are the group who boast of attacking Dean in their ads (the "shadow" democratic (?)group - with a buncha rethugs)

Well, Lo and Behold. Who is on their membership rolls? Jackson Stephens Jr. who was General Clark's employer until recently.

Here is a link for their story on the antiDean ad:

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/index1.php

here is the membership list:

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/staff.php