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The Former Head of the AIP was torn from his bed, kidnapped, murdered, missing for a year. Bizarre.

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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:40 AM
Original message
The Former Head of the AIP was torn from his bed, kidnapped, murdered, missing for a year. Bizarre.
Edited on Wed Sep-03-08 07:48 AM by symbolman
For those who don't know I am the brother and brother-in-law of the Chairpersons of the AIP, Dexter and Lynetter Clark.

No one is mentioning Joe Vogler, the last Head of the AIP, who was torn from his bed in the dead of night, murdered, his body hidden for a good year. It made a LOT of people in the state both deeply sad and paranoid.

I don't understand why THIS is not Important information, considering that everyone is on about Sarah Palin and the AIP.

It's Bizarre. Suppose the Head of the Republican Party had this happen to him, do you think it would be ignored? What would the Reaction be?

Here's part of the story, the rest at link below (google for more):

**************

Alaskans, with Mr. Vogler as their statesman, approached secession and independence as intelligently and thoroughly as anyone could possibly hope. The cherished cause was carried all the way to the United Nations in Mr. Vogler’s careful arms.

But in the mid-1990s Joe Vogler was shot down, and Alaska worried while a fruitless search was made for his body, then mourned him when they learned the truth. The going would be hard without good old Jim. Too many resources abide in Alaska; the Alaskan Pipeline is a household word; environmentalists don’t want their distant utopian dream to be fouled by "enthusiastic" Alaskan freedom fighters. At the same time, jobs and money go right out of Alaska to other states. Mr. Vogler spoke long and tirelessly about this and other problems Alaskans have to face. We may ask, "But they are just separatists, aren’t they? Rabble-rousers, and obnoxious ones at that! They are ingrates…" These thoughts sound a lot like the British sentiments of the 18th century. In the Electoral College, Alaska has the fewest votes of any state, having the fewest representatives in the House. It seems Alaska has quite the legitimate axe to grind.

Alaskans have proved their worth, and their sincerity. They should at least have the chance that our Founding Ancestors had. What they all really want is what any American wants: security, resources, freedom-- and the right to self-government. Sadly, they have found little of any of those things in the America of today, and they have the courage to say so: Alaskans as American citizens have been betrayed by the United States government.

A man is in jail for the murder of Mr. Vogler. It is said the murder was a burglary gone bad. Very few Alaskans believe it. The former lieutenant governor has said of the murder that "it is the cleanest take-out" job he had ever heard of; and he’s not the only person in high places asking questions. The murder went unsolved for just over a year. Patently absurd? Perhaps. Why would our government approach a self-described "street person" with a rap sheet, to assassinate a 78-year-old man over the Alaska Question? The murderer, Manfried "Cartoon Freddy" West, was sentenced to 80 years in prison for second degree murder; Jim Vogler, who is missed sorely by many Alaskans, has become the first true martyr in a modern cause for separatism - no matter why he was killed.

http://www.hackwriters.com/Alaskandays.htm

****************

I knew Joe Vogler and heard every detail of how he was found to be missing, my brother in law, and sister, Lynette and Dexter Clark are the Chairpersons for the Alaska Independence Party. They were on the scene and demanding investigations, search parties, documenting clues, and talking to everyone that would listen, attempting to solve it as best they could as well.

He was a nice man, with an air of Statesmenship about him, I didn't agree with what he sought for an end result, but admired his forthright attitude.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. See what happens when you refuse to marry one of Palin's daughters after you knock her up?
Some people say.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Sorry, I can't laugh about this
I knew the guy. He went off on his own tangent, but as a human being, he was good people.

Palin's new charge needs to be DRAFTED into the Military, and I think WE should lead the charge on that, esp in light of the bullshit he writes on his MYSPACE, eh?
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Sym, we didn't know him and right now this entire thing is a sick gothic opera
I'm genuinely sorry for your friend.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks
I'm not saying that he was even what you would consider a friend, just another gold miner I knew, but a different kind of man. Some people are charismatic even if they're wrong :)

Appreciate your empathy
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. I remember Joe Vogler and all that, symbolman. Did you know that
City Confidential made a show of his murder? It is on the biography channel often. Anyone wants to know about him and the AIP can check it out there.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Sarah probably mistook him for a caribou
Seriously, that is a weird story.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. hey symbolman
any idea why the retraction from the AIP yesterday about Sarah being a member?

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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't buy it
There's something strange going on there. My sister has NEVER backed down, no matter how RIGHT or WRONG she is.. once she says something she STICKS with it.

I suspect that McCain's lawyers showed up or called, hopefully nothing too nefarious, they had dozens of legal claims going on in court over all this stuff, and would explain it to me endlessly..

It doesn't add up, and as far as I'm concerned it really doesn't change anything. One piece of missing paper doesn't mean you are NOT a member. Palin attended regularly enough, and then sent that WELCOME video to be considered a member.

If I went to a few boyscout meetings I was a boyscout, whether I had a uniform or not. Her husband was up until 2002, and in their weird church the man is the HEAD of the family, and what he says GOES.

I hope my sister is all right.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I also hope
Edited on Wed Sep-03-08 08:06 AM by yourguide
your sister is all right. It seemed suspect to me that she retracted as well.

As far as I'm concerned it doesnt change anything either. However it does change (i.e. remove) the media narrative.

Best wishes to your family, let me know if you hear anything.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sure thing
Edited on Wed Sep-03-08 08:05 AM by symbolman
thanks.

I'll pass the word to her that if someone is leaning on her that I can try to make it high profile, there are lots of people not buying such a turn around so quickly, esp when you know that the word for VETTING now means, REWRITING HISTORY, MAKING SHIT DISAPPEAR, Hopefully not including people.

This shit is epidemic with the bush co invasion, never seen stories and people turn so fast in my life, retractions within hours. Gotta be thugs involved somewhere.

Say, do you know what a "jesus bolt" is? (re: your choppers graphic)
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. How can I contact you? I don't have enough post count...
Hello, symbolman,

someone from our radio station (www.kgnu.org) wants to interview your sister and brother-in-law. How can I contact you or them? I want to give you the interviewer's contact information.

If this is too complicated, you can send information to news@kgnu.org with your name "symbolman" in the title, but that address gets so many e-mail, it can get lost....

I don't have enough post count so I can not send you PM...(I have been a long time DU reader since 2001 but I only decided to register just recently...):-(
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Wish I could help you out
but I won't give out family phone numbers, and I only interview with broadcasters I know, like Randi..

Looks like a great station, but I've seen too many people ambushed or have bad experiences, most of us don't have time to do the waiting that needs to happen for stations while they do their schtick..

I hope this doesn't offend, but Maddow, Randi, etc are more inline with our views, it can get dicey when you don't know who you're talking to..sometimes it's fun :)

Right now I'm working on a Flash "attack" ad re: Palin, and I'm short on time, wish I could help, thanks for the offer..

Stay tuned on the DU tho
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Whenever you think it make sense to you
Contact KGNU (www.kgnu.org)

The person who wants to interview the chairpersons of AIP is a lawyer and very experienced interviewer and analyst. KGNU is not like any "talk radio" type of station. Our news programming is very thoughtful and analyitical. KGNU is one of the first stations to carry "Democracy Now!" from the beginning. If you are interested, check out our archive of various interviews on-line... Morning magazine or Metro...

Goodluck and thinking of your family.

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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. Symbolman
Not meaning to sound warning bells when none are needed, but in this case I hope you can touch base with your sister. People in power have a really hard time giving it up, and will go to great lengths to keep it.

I would put NOTHING behind the Roves of the world, and what they would do to sweep something like this under the rug.

I will keep your family in my thoughts and prayers
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about THEM
when I posted this about Vogler, maybe the back of my mind was telling me something - I was just posting for folks to have general info about a sort of freakish party scene, that Palin was associate with a party whose leader was brutally murdered, and some people thought over the "Alaska Question".

Secession..

Maybe I should make up with that Sister/Bro-in-law, just in case. Though I think what they do these days is assassinate your Character/Story..

thanks for thinking of it though, you never know. Strange things happen under the Midnight Sun, I know, I've seen 'em.
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. Is the AIP seen as extremist in Alaska?
It sounds a little out there, sort of like the Constitution Party or, from a conservative perspective, the Green Party. Would you say it's more extreme? I'm glad you're keeping this matter alive because I'm hoping it will gain traction, but if the AIP is truly extreme in any way other than secession, you might consider a post. If Palin did in fact speak to a real fringe group, as the youtube video shows, I think this might be a bigger issue. (Also, have you asked your brother about Palin? Would he have any interest in seeing if she ever wrote anything to AIP?)
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JustAmused Donating Member (261 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. Ex-Alaskan here
Hey Symbolman,

I lived in Fairbanks until 1977. I had a small cabin out in Goldstream Valley on Sheep Creek Rd. I knew Vogler marginally. I only have a few friends I keep in touch with up there, and I didn't know about this. I hope all is ok wih your family. I'm hoping that the typical GOP strong arm tactics run straight into the "keep your lower 48 butts out of our business" thing...lol.

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Bosso 63 Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
15. Very odd, there must be some speculation about what was really
behind this murder. People talk.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. It's quit a stretch
to compare the head of a lunatic fringe group with the head of the GOP (OK maybe not that much of a stretch).

Seriously -- head of the AIP is like being head of one of these wacky survivalist groups in the lower 48. They're always fighting with each other.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. This story sounds famililar
I think it was covered on City Confidential. Not a news show per se but an interesting show nonetheless.

Regards
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