where's the political upside for us if sarah is actually twig's grandma?

[unblock]

sure, it would show she was lying.

but they would be able to easily spin it as amazingly admirable. for a grandma to volunteer to raise a kid as hew own, especially a baby with special needs. for a mother to try to protect the image and reputation of her teenage daughter. for her to show that she'll walk the walk when it comes to her anti-abortion views.

at best, this would be an ambiguous gain for democrats.
at worse, this would actually be a plus for republicans.

insurance fraud? don't be so quick to assume that. for insurance fraud to happen, there has to be a fraudulent claim. they might have told the truth on the claim, those records are not public. for that matter, they might have simply not filed a claim at all. they could have paid out of pocket or gotten some donor to pay.

the bottom line is that there we barely know this person and ALREADY there are several FAR better attack angles.
let's focus on those, please, and let the one with dubious upside be.

[thunder rising]

1. I don't the the average American would find that something that an average American would do

It's kinda sick. Don'cha think?

[yurbud]

36. no, it's an old-fashioned trick to avoid abortion, adoption, or single motherhood

[marylanddem]

2. It shows her to be a lying liar?

And a neanderthal right-to-life hypocrite who treats her daughter's unmarried pregnancy as a shameful family event to be hidden at all costs?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Right

If you have to go after Palin on the pregnancy, go after her this way:

1. Agree with her that she was pregnant

2. Question her judgment about going to the conference to give a speech when her doctor told her not to--how can we trust her to listen to advice of experts when it comes to military matters (for example) if she wouldn't even listen to her doctor's advice when it came to her own child?

[napi21]

4. VERY BAD for the Pubs! Exposing a BIG lie & NATIONAL coverup

would not be viewed by ANYONE as a good thing! Not aborting the baby, and comitting to raise him might have been the right thing to do, but the rest of the story would spell disaster!

[unblock]

6. point is, not all lies and cover-ups are created equal

lying and covering-up to protect your own personal reputation, image, greed, crimes, whatever, NOT GOOD.

lying and covering-up to protect a loved one, especially a daughter, not nearly as bad, arguably even noble.

this is NOT lying to avoid disclosing adultery, for instance.

[napi21]

24. Perhaps not, but it IS lying to cover up promiscuity! The Pubbies

don't view that as good behavior! Sorry, I still think it would be viewed as a very bad thing.

[yurbud]

38. that is a legitimate point. their ''abstinence only'' approach doesn't work.

[murray hill farm]

7. The scandal alone....

would be soooooooooo drawn out....so discussed.....so hyped.......so horrible, it would completely do in what is left of repug credibility.

[avaistheone1]

29. VERY BAD for abstinence- only programs for teens

It would be prime time in-the-country's face evidence that just say "No" programs don't work.
VERY GOOD for family planning programs to protect young people from unwanted pregnancies

VERY GOOD at showing Palin's hypocrisy and character.

[intheozone]

5. Again, it could be a case of criminal insurance fraud. nt

[unblock]

8. as i said originally, we don't know if they even filed a claim

just because they lied to the public doesn't mean they lied to their insurance company.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. Shocking poor judgment and a slap in the face to

a woman who advocates the use of no birth control at all for anyone, even married couples.

Insurance fraud is much harder to prove. Their might be a clause in either of their insurances that the grandchild, if they are providing support for him, is fully covered. Mine says that.

As well as being an absolute disgrace as a mother for forcing Bristol to comply with this and prevent the shaming of the family.

[unblock]

13. it's not at clear that bristol's the one being forced into anything

plenty of teenage woman who become pregnant are DEVASTATED. there's a huge stigma involved and it might well have been bristol who was desperate for a way out. for all we know, she might have threatened or even attempted suicide, and this was the family's solution.

i agree that if this was all the grandparents' idea for their own political sake, that would be horrible, but that won't be the way they'll spin it even if it were the case.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. Agreed. Especially coming from a right wing nutbag family like

that. Telling that whack job wouldn't be something I would want to do.

I personally feel that they had adoptive parents picked out who backed out when the baby was diagnosed with DS. Which, if true, interestingly, shows me again how fucking stupid Palin is. There are waiting lists years long full of people who WANT to adopt a DS baby.

And, her stand on the issues just makes me despise her even more.

[lligrd]

10. It Might Show That The Abstinence Only Platform

is a failure?

[kiranon]

11. Because she put politics ahead of her family. And, lied about it.

If it is true that the baby is not hers, Gov. Palin sacrificed not by playing the mom but by denying the humanity of her daughter and her grandson.

[vadawg]

12. i see it differently

If she took on the responsibility of a child with special needs to protect her daughter and the child, something that is completely possible and not unheard of, especially if this comes out due to attacks from democratic supporters i think there would be an incredible backlash against the democratic party, I for one as a parent of a special needs child would wholly understand what she had done and would be royally pissed at the treatment of her and her family.

[unblock]

14. you presume that sarah did it for her political interest and bristol had no say in the matter

could it not be the case that a 17-year old didn't want the social stigma of being pregant in high school, nor felt she had it in her to raise a special needs baby?

at a minimum, republican would spin it this way.

[tired_old_fireman]

22. A lot of 17 year olds don't have it in them to raise a special needs baby

That's why teaching birth control is a good idea.

[Midlodemocrat]

40. Would bet you $1000 that they had an adoptive couple

lined up who backed out when the baby was found to have DS. It would be virtually unheard of for a practitioner to perform genetic testing on a 17yo.

[vadawg]

50. so what

If they had an adoptive coouple ready who backed out, wouldnt change the fact that they still did everything they could to protect their child and mayby do what they thought best for her child. This would still cause a huge sympathy vote.

[Midlodemocrat]

54. Uh, wrong.

It shows an astonishing lack of concern for their own child that this woman would rather advance her political agenda than do what is right for her child.

Hiding a teen pregnancy is wrong. It backfires almost every time and this teenager doesn't deserve that.

[vadawg]

60. uhm

Do you know for sure that they did it to further a career, and as to it always being wrong once again thats just your opinion, i happen to have a different one as im sure lots of others do too.

[TheDonkey]

15. If true it would be a devestating blow to Palin who would be forced to resign from Gov and VP nom

it isn't admirable to LIE at that length.

[unblock]

16. all politicians lie. what matters is what you lie about, and why

again, this is NOT lying to cover up adultery.

[lurky]

18. It's exactly the kind of juicy gossip that would

keep the media buzzing for months. It has no policy content, and everybody can understand it. It would be a huge sideshow that would serve as a distraction from the McCain campaign.

[Speck Tater]

19. Falsifying government documents (birth certificate) - creating a false identity.

Surely the Fatherland Police, aka Homeland Security Force, would be interested in that.

[LisaL]

20. I have no idea whatever there is any truth whatsoever

to this rumor. For all I know this is a completely bogus rumor.
But hello, to suggest that even if it were true, it wouldn't make a difference?
Hillary got slammed for the sniper fire story, and that event was years and years ago. Yet press had a field day with it.
Because Hillary apparently made something up, or embelished something.

[LynneSin]

21. First thing it would show is how Abstinence Only education fails our children

This is what fundies want to force our on children. No sex education, no access to birth control (even Birth control that does not interfere with fertilized eggs like condoms & creams). This shows the great failure that the fundamentals have done for our children and THIS is what needs to be exposed.

[marlakay]

23. both of my daughters with small kids think it is weird either way

if it is hers she shows bad judgement on the flight and going back to work in 3 days and if its not she is lying...

[Red_Viking]

25. Because the anti-choicers are already holding her up as a saint

Palin is being worshiped as a woman who refused to abort her baby when she found out he had Down Syndrome. What if the baby isn't hers? It was never her choice to make. Plus the right is holding her up as an uber-mom who went back to work THREE DAYS AFTER GIVING BIRTH TO A SPECIAL NEEDS CHILD.

Put that all together with the weird plane trip while in labor... she didn't tell the crew or pilot, so I guess she just leaked amniotic fluid all over the plane. And by the way, depressurization induces labor.

The whole thing smells. I don't care about her personal choices but when she's held up as an example of anti-choice motherhood, I say dig deep and call out the bullshit.

[vaberella]

26. None. She turns into a HEROINE. A mother who goes above and beyond and risk career for her child.

[vadawg]

31. totally agree with this

If this plays out this way i too would have a lot of admiration for her and her husbands decision to protect their daughter and grandkid. In fact i would stand and applaud both of them and their daughter.

[SmokingJacket]

I am so up in the air about this.

On the one hand, yeah -- if she faked her pregnancy for her daughter... so what? I wouldn't do it, but it probably works out best for everyone involved. She's giving her 17 yr old a second chance at having a normal life, and giving the baby a better life, too.

But I hate the idea of the Republicans getting away with ANYTHING. Imagine if it were Hillary and Chelsea?? Rush Limbaugh would be having a field day.

[OHdem10]

27. If this trash is the best we Democrats can do--God Help us.

It might help to research Down's Syndrome. This children are characteristically born to Mothers who become pregnant later
in life. (past the usual child-bearing years).

To trash teen-agers is beyond the pale. Children are off limits.

This type garbage makes us look ignorant.

[Ellen Forradalom]

59. And it telegraphs panic and weakness

Bad strategery.

[Joanne98]

28. It makes her a deceitful liar NUFF SAID

[vadawg]

30. a deceitful liar

who did what a lot of parents of teenagers would do to protect their kids and grandkids, my wife talked about this last night when i broached the subject and said she would do the same thing in a heartbeat for our daughter and wanted to know if it was true about the rumours, if so that Palin did the right thing.

[Midlodemocrat]

39. Actually, the chances of this happening in this day and age are

extremely rare. I have counseled many pregnant teenagers and NOT ONCE was it ever considered to have mom and dad raise the baby as their own.

Times have changed. If this baby is Bristol's, and I hope it isn't, for Bristol's sake, Palin threw Bristol under the bus for her own political gain.

How could she possibly have a pregnant teenager when expousing abstinence only education and no birth control even for married couples?

Oh, right, she couldn't.

[nolabels]

44. It's not even so much that she would lie but more of the problem of .......

she would to legislate her religious beliefs and morality on the rest of us that she can't even uphold herself. That is what seems so bad to me :shrug:

[vadawg]

56. circles

mayby we travel in different circles and theres a cultural thing as well, but growing up i saw this happen in my own family a few times, and now i know a couple of cases of families doing this.

[unblock]

32. again, all politicians lie.

it very much matters what the lie is and why.

lying to cover up adultery is something that there is simply no excuse for.

lying to protect your 17-year old kid has some merit.

[endthewar]

33. "sure, it would show she was lying"

That would be enough.

[unblock]

37. it's not news when a politician lies.

in fact, it's news when a politician tells the truth. come to think of it, that explains the obama phenomenon.

[endthewar]

41. This will be a race to define Palin

If there are hints that she might be a lying politician who puts her career ahead of her family's well-being, it will raise lots of other questions about her.

[unblock]

42. we're back to WHY the lie?

if she lied to protect bristol, there's no political juice in it for us.

[Nine]

34. It would be a huge scandal that would make McCain look completely incompetent

Would you want him negotiating with other countries after such obvious lack of preparation selecting his own VP?

[unblock]

35. we make that point better on other fronts.

she's not remotely up to the job, having nothing to do with her progeny.

[WeDidIt]

43. mainly because half the people I was with believed it until I explained the situation to them

[unblock]

46. i feel honored! that's worth more than a duzy!

:hi:

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. I think the story is Bullshit, BUT

I don't think I'm alone in finding it totally weird and beyond the pale if true. Maybe I don't get out of my "elite urban enclave" much, and maybe I don't know many fundies, but I truly have never heard of anything like this. I see people saying, oh yeah, people do that all the time! Really? Fucking really? Mothers pretend that they're the mother of their daughters kids in order to spare the kid the "shame" of a teen pregnancy? People do this all the time?!? It's the most outrageous fucking thing I've ever heard of. So, what? She pretends to the kid that she's the mother, and that the real mother is really a sister? People do this all the time?!? On what fucking planet do people do this all the time? I don't think I'm particularly sheltered, but that scenario sounds positively Faulknerian. It's bizarre. I think that there is a huge portion of this country that would recoil as i do from such a thing. It's super weirdo shit, man, and I can't imagine anybody saying, "oh, yeah, that was admirable, sparing her daughter the shame of a teen pregnancy and all!" Who the fuck would say that? You know people who would react that way? I don't. I'm pretty sure almost everybody I know would be slack-jawed and wide-eyed in amazement at such a revelation, like "NO...FUCKING...WAY!"

[unblock]

48. maybe it's because i grew up in a wealthy, waspy, midwestern suburb

but but the idea of the grandma pretending to be the mother to spare the kid the stigma would not surprise me in the least.
i understand that in some areas getting pregnant at 17 is actually a goal and an achievement and a source of pride.

but where i grew up, pregnant teens attempted suicide if they got pregnant, so yes, their mothers did whatever they had to do.

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. Yikes

"i understand that in some areas getting pregnant at 17 is actually a goal and an achievement and a source of pride."

I'm not sure if you mean this as an insult, or description. I'm scared either way.

But the point stands: this sort of thing would be viewed, in my opinion, as deeply, deeply weird, even in most "waspy, wealthy, midwestern suburbs." It's kooky stuff.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

47. Concocting an elaborate ruse to fabricate your own pregnancy while concealing your daughter's

Is just plain weird, not to mention completely unnecessary in this day and age.

[POAS]

49. Unnecessary unless

your close circle of friends are freeky right wing religious wackos.

If it proves more than a bad rumor then she has also involved criminal behavior by the nurses and doctors involved. The doctor especially would have had to falsify the birth certificate.

[alcibiades_mystery]

I thought I had lost my mind by thinking this is totally, off the charts bizarro

I see responses on this thread - and the OP - acting as if this sort of thing is standard fare. Am I crazy? This is fucking wacky shit beyond belief.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

57. Nope. It's batshit fucking bonkers.

Which is why I'm inclined to think it's a bullshit story. However, the more I read and learn about Sarah Palin the more creeped out I am.

[WinkyDink]

51. I think the "lying" part is not insignificant.

[Motown_Johnny]

52. abstinence only programs.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

58. This is the only possible motive I could see for this story, on the slight chance that it's true

Having a teenaged daughter get pregnant would be an admission that the abstinence only sex ed she is a proponent of is a failure.

[seabeyond]

55. she selfishly put herself on the ticket knowing that her daughter would be exposed

nation for embarrassment. her self gratification overrode her daughters interest

[Midlodemocrat]

61. Thank you, seabeyond.

We see this in exactly the same light

[seabeyond]

62. as a parent, this immediately hit me when hearing the possibility of this. immediately i thought

this woman knew this would be found out, or surely she thought there was a strong possibility. she worked at creating the lie to hide what happened, yet now here she is setting her daughter up

it just does not seem like many people understand the betrayal and selfishness. it was so loud and clear and screaming in my head. i read one of your posts and saw... you see it too.

i vowed i wouldnt judge peoples parenting. and i dont. but i absolutely will speak out when a parent is not parenting. and this is NOT being a parent. i abhor.

then i learned she supposedly went on the plane with water break. that was it. even more horrendous than (like you said) throwing daughter under the bus.

she gets to chose role as bad parent

embarrass daughter for her selfish gain
beyond stupid put baby's life and hers at risk

it is all simple to me