Okay, all of you who think the pregnancy was not faked...

[Nine]

What is your take on Palin's claim that her water broke at 4am, she stayed to give a speech around noon (a luncheon so I'm guessing noonish), then took a commercial connecting flight from Texas to Seattle to Alaska? Most of us have said the faked pregnancy isn't the only explanation. The other is that she's nuts.

[Catch22Dem]

1. Not one doctor in the world would allow that. (n/t)

[Solomon]

48. How come nobody is considering the possibility that maybe

she really didn't want the baby?

I know it's a horrible thing to say, but if you're a fundie, locked into a strict no abortion thing, this would be an acceptable way of doing what you can't do otherwise.

[Speck Tater]

58. That's right! There is not one single corrupt doctor in the entire world.

Just as there is not one single corrupt politician or CEO in the world. Everyone behaves EXACTLY as they should. (Welcome to the liberal's version of fantasy land.)

[Catch22Dem]

95. So you believe her?

NOTHING to do with the rumors currently swimming around the internets, but are you saying you believe THIS story about flying from TX to AK after her water broke?

[Speck Tater]

98. Absolutely NOT. I guess I should have included a "sarcasm" smilie, but

frankly, I thought the implied sarcasm in the body of the post was self-evident.

[Catch22Dem]

125. No, don't apologize, it's cool

With the rampant knee-jerking I see here today, I'm not sure what is sarcasm and what isn't. :D

[Kittycat]

102. Even more so since it was PREMATURE labor.

[Epiphany4z]

2. The baby is hers

jmho...the pic showing her daughter with a lil gut is from back in 2006 she would have had to prego for over a year...ouch. My daughter is 18 and just this year lost that lil baby fat pouch.

Anyway there is plenty to nail her on without it...she is just a gawd awful pick in so many ways.

[Motown_Johnny]

7. Fine, then let her explain her actions while in labor.. Knocking her off talking points is a good

thing.

Also making more women see that she is a nut job is a good thing

[blondeatlast]

36. Agreed. We can discuss the COLOSSALLY bad judgment and leave

her teenager out of this.

NO expectant mother would do such things except in the most extraordinary of circumstances.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

141. Need Pictures of S. Palin in earlier pregnancies to show how large she gets

[SoCalDem]

143. Here she is, back when she had tight new muscles

her son was born in April (Track) and the trees have not leafed, so I'm guessing it might have been a warmish March or April day..

[Bernardo de La Paz]

147. Thanks. AP says it is undated. Is that 2008 or one of the earlier pregnancies?

Thanks. AP says it is undated. Is that 2008 or one of the earlier pregnancies?

Either way, it kind of cooks her story, because she either gets very large in pregnancy or she doesn't. If it is earlier than 2008, then being that large it shows that the 6-7 month "pregnant" photo proves she wasn't pregnant. If it is 2008 then she got inflated like a hot air balloon.

Supposedly she went from this:



to this or something like it in just a month or two:



Something fishy in Alaska.

[SoCalDem]

148. The AP caption said undated, but the hair places it in 1989

and it also said an earlier pregnancy.. I think it was with Track..

[hexola]

3. Isnt there a condition where a woman thinks her water broke - but didnt?

Or something?

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. I think it's called peeing. n/t

[Dr.Phool]

13. Or Insanity.

:crazy:

[hexola]

17. But seriously - Is there a condition that resembles a water break?

[medicswife]

18. I've had 4 kids and I've never heard of a condition like that. nt

[hexola]

22. Thanks - I dont know either...but you hear about false alarms enough.

[medicswife]

30. Well a false alarm is more like you're having Braxton Hicks contractions

and you mistake those for real labor. If you even SUSPECT that your water may have broken, you are to go to the nearest Hospital's Labor and Delivery department. I'll tell you this much. With all four of my kids, once my water broke, the babies were born within 2 to 6 hours. The first baby took the longest. My third the shortest amount of time. And the fourth, was induced 6 weeks early, so it wasn't a normal situation.

[hexola]

32. Ahh - thanks, I think that is what I was thinking of...(nt)

[emilyg]

116. After my water broke

I gave birth to my daughter 18 hours later. Just saying - not all women are alike.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Not for me

My water leaked just like they are claiming Palin's did. It wasn't a gush and it wasn't like peeing either. It was more of a slow leak, but constant. And as soon as it started, I called my doctor and he said get to the hospital NOW.

[Kittycat]

101. No. There's leaking/membranes rupturing - then there's peeing youself unknowingly.

In both cases, women typically seek a medical exam/doctor to verify. They can do a simple paper/strip test to determine if you're leaking amniotic fluid. It's a non-invasive procedure, and no sane woman - that wanted the child, would do what she did.

[LeftyMom]

105. Seriously, "water breaking" that isn't is usually urine.

Sometimes women will think they have a leak when they really just have the relatively prodigious vaginal fluids of pregnancy, but frequently women mistake pissing themselves for their water breaking.

Obviously the way to tell it apart is the smell (amniotic fluid smells a bit sweet, pee smells like pee) but still, an amazing number of women present with soaked pants and intact membranes.

[knitter4democracy]

139. Nope.

You sniff it, and if there's no smell, and if it's slightly greenish or clear, it's a water break, and you get to the ER (at least, if you're in a high-risk situation).

[Jim Lane]

142. In this instance, I think it's called lying. (n/t)

[knitter4democracy]

15. Sometimes it just leaks a bit, which is what it sounds like she had.

She said that she started leaking at 4am. The reality is, doctors count that as water breaking just as much as if it was like in the movies with puddles around her feet. She put herself and her baby at a huge risk of dying with that stunt.

[demo dutch]

27. Infection, risking life of baby & herself, plus what about not informing airline of her condition

[Midlodemocrat]

107. No. An OB will tell you as you near your EDC

that if you feel as though your water has broken, take the 'sniff' test. Pee smells like ammonia. Amniotic fluid has no scent.

[Montauk6]

4. All I know is...

I'm getting a wee bit frustrated with this hands-off approach to what may be a legitimate story; AFTER MONTHS OF FAKERIES ABOUT THE OBAMAS (Fist pumps, anyone? Have you "registered" with Islam lately?).

The ONLY way this should be left alone is if it's false, period. Playing the privacy card at THIS POINT? EFF NAW!

[ginnyinWI]

5. if your water breaks you need to check into the hospital.

Infection can set in. And if it isn't the first child, the birth could progress very rapidly. It's crazy to do what she did, I agree.

[blondeatlast]

39. Under the most extraordinary of circumstances, precious few expectant moms

would choose to fly under those conditions.

I can see it if a preciously close family member was dying; other than that, that's just unthinkable.

[KittyWampus]

6. do you even know anything else about Palin? Her political history in Alaska? You have a problem

[Motown_Johnny]

8. That isn't the point. She needs to define herself to the American Voter. Let's define her as nuts

[Stellen]

10. Palin is in MARVELOUS shape!

Look at these stars at 7 months! We all know what great shape they're in! And to think this was her 5th @44 (at right, slightly contrasted to show her fabulous shape at 7 months!)! She's remarkable!

[tinrobot]

14. That wasn't the question.

The question was not about her physical condition, it was about her mental judgment and lack thereof.

[Stellen]

21. She's in such good shape she doesn't need to worry about

her water breaking! She's so healthy she could be going into labor with no worries that she'd be giving birth in the 8 hour airplane ride home because she's in such good shape she could control when she gave birth! Sorry - I thought the sarcasm was evident.

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[LibDemAlways]

11. If it happened that way, she demonstrated incredibly

poor judgment in what could have been a life or death situation. I see no problem with this information being "out there." She was interviewed after the birth and that's the story she put forth. Now she has to either live with it or retract it. Either way, she's in a lose/lose situation. Good.

[No Elephants]

16. If it happened that way, she risked the baby's life and her own. But, I want to see a woman in

labor for 8 hours giving a speech and hiding her contractions on a plane for another 12. Strains credulity.

[otohara]

12. She Knew The Baby Was Down Syndrome

it doesn't make sense to me that if she were pregnant she would take so many chances that might harm the baby even more. Baby in distress, mom in labor - waits hours to leave, hours on airplane. All this for what?

[LisaL]

26. According to the father of the child (I am paraphrasing here),

if the child was born in TX, he could not be a fish picker.

[otohara]

60. So She Does What Ever Hubby

tells her to do, even in the face of endangering the child.

Fundie men will love this aspect of her and John McCain will be able to pull her strings, and she will dance, dance, dance to the tune of what ever my men want of me, they will get.

[WeDidIt]

My take on it is it is a LIE

She was trying to act tough and lied about her water breaking.

[WeDidIt]

19. My take on it is it is a LIE

She was trying to act tough and lied about her water breaking.

[tinrobot]

20. I think it shows vanity and an ego out of control.

The reason she said she did it was because she didn't want her daughter born in Texas. That means she put her own vanity and ego ahead of the health of her unborn child.

I would imagine she'd just as easily put her ego first when it comes to governing as well.

[Max_powers94]

23. comparison at the same time between her previous pregnancies and her most current one:

at first i thought this was some bullshit but this whole story is fishy for all the people who think this is nonsense would a pregnant woman at 44 have her water break give a speech then fly 8 hours from texas to Seattle then fly to alaska then drive 45 minutes then go to the hospital to deal with it? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yo nobody has called her on this shit cause she is from westbubblefuck alaska but she is a vp pick now and people actually do investigations rather than call the moose farmer for his take on todays events

Also,

Checking with the Anchorage High School that Bristol Palin attended, reporters were given word that her family had taken Bristol out of school due to contracting infectious mononucleosis. The amount of time Bristol was absent shifts from five to eight months.

Mono can last anywhere from two weeks to three months, but an eight month infection is a freak oddity. Yet it remains a common excuse given by girls in private & Catholic schools around the nation when pregnancy comes into play. Not the first time, not the last time".

[hexola]

31. Wow - hmm...well THAT is something...

I have to admit - this little comparison is the most convincing teaser I've seen yet...

Do women always carry the same way or does it vary - I was under the impression that they got bigger each time.

[dailykoff]

37. She is definitiely not the type to hide a pregnancy.

Much more likely to flaunt it. You're right, the cover story is laughable.

[purgingtheliars]

80. In Britain the Democrats Look Frightened

I find it really amazing how much wider her nose is in that photo, almost as if it was 'tampered' with.

I MUST say this, or the democrats are going to look like right wallies....

I am a Mum of a baby that was diagnosed with Down Syndrome after she was born. She was MUCH smaller than my previous pregnancy and as is often the case, she arrived 4-5 weeks early (often in the cases of DS).

The other photos on another thread showed a photo of Sarah 15 weeks prior to giving birth to Trig and she is MUCH larger than I EVER got in my pregnancy. I was always asked (even in A&E by a doctor) if I was certain I was really pregnant. This is bog standard for a DS pregnancy.

Also, people have posted photos of the family from 2006 to compare to another photo they are so sure the daughter looks pregnant. Well, look at the one that is 'verified' as from 2006 to show Piper's age difference. The girl who you all are so certain is pregnant in the other photo is actually LARGER in the one from 2006. She is just built that way.

Also, having a belly button like that is NOT a sign of pregnancy lol as the 'nurse who works with paediatricians' said. I have FOUR sister in laws that ALL had that exact belly button as they were growing up. In fact, two of them have now had children and during their pregnancies their belly buttons SHRANK.

And, saying that the husband looks so Caucasian and the baby looks more Inuit (not sure of spelling) is so ridiculous! My husband's sister is much darker skinned than any of the rest of the 9 of them. They have a great grandmother that is Jewish and she has her colouring. She also looks like her when she was the same age. Don't you people know anything about genetics and families?

I'm British(and yes, the moderators can do a search on my ISP so you can confirm I'm British) so I really don't care who wins the election but please, from across the pond you all look like you are so frightened she may help McCain win it is pathetic!

As for the length of time for mono, we don't call it that here but honestly, even if she was out of school for an extended time there is no way that the Mum could fake that she gave birth and no doctor is going to put their career on the line for something like that. Honestly, find something better to spread so you don't look so 'grasping at hairs'.

[area51]

94. Concern troll?

Is there a pizza in your future?

[purgingtheliars]

120. troll pizza, what

i don't know how to respond unless you can clarify. i am not doing anything but hoping to point out what people here in the uk think of the mud slinging goes on in us politics

[Midlodemocrat]

113. LOL. You can't make this shit up.

:rofl:

[Emillereid]

96. Thanks for the comparison photos. It does it for me. This woman was NOT

pregnant in the right photo. Why she faked the pregnancy to cover for her daughter is disturbing. Obviously, she wouldn't let her daughter have an abortion. She must have been so overcome with shame that she concocted the story. This says a lot about Palin's beliefs about women - that it's shameful for a girl to have sex -- so much so that she fakes a pregnancy herself and claims the kid as her own. This is sick. This is not magnanimous. You'd think it was the 1950s. Think about the dynamics of this family where the girl has to pretend to be the sister of her own child. Creepy.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

106. There seems to be a problem. From my research so far, Bristol goes to high school in Juneau

and this article says Anchorage.

She supposedly attends Juneau-Douglas High School.

http://juneauempire.com/stories/051807/nei_20070518007.shtml

Bristol Palin made the Honor Roll.

[AZBlue]

140. The mono story I think is the oddest part of it.

No one has just mono for even 5 months. No one.

Mild symptoms can last for a while in some people but when it's gone on for more than three to four weeks, other issues should be looked into, such as fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. Tests should also be done to rule out organ damage from a prolonged virus. When mono lasts 4-6 months, it's called chronic EBV infection - but that's never been mentioned by the Palin family, has it?

Since the daughter seemingly "recovered perfectly," it definitely puts the story to test, as any of the factors involved in a prolonged illness wouldn't just disappear, they would be an ongoing problem for her.

[demo dutch]

24. She is a reckless decision maker ---- see this discussion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6846096&mesg_id=6846096

[kestrel91316]

25. Who cares? She's HOT, and she will be a complete tool of

the Right.

Remember, the christofascists will do and say ANYTHING to accomplish their goals, one of which is the re-enslavement of women. Lying, fakery, wolves in sheep's clothing.........they will do anything, and they are very patient as they erode our rights bit by bit.

If you think the opposition to abortion and borth control is as far as they go, you are naive. Dominionists advocate one family-one vote and a return to stoning gays, adulterers, and recalcitrant children to death. They won't say so publically, of course. Remember, they have a stealth campaign.

[Orangepeel]

28. I say that if she WERE faking her pregnancy, she WOULDN'T have made up that story

She would have gone home and then pretended to have the baby.

[seabeyond]

35. supposedly she had another month before the expected birth. i hear she had baby

in the small town. why? why not anchorage or juneau wherever she would be going to doctor appt

[Aqaba]

33. GRANDMA'S AGAINST TEEN PREGNANCY!!! WOOHOO GRANDPA/GRANDMA '08!!!

Hehe... couldn't resist.

[seabeyond]

34. i am not saying it is fake. i am not saying it is nuts. i say, one or the other. she gets to

take her pick

[Lucinda]

38. Leaking amniotic fluid doesn't = her water broke they babys comin NOW!!!.

She called her doc, they talked, he said she could do what she did.

Why do you assume you know more about a womans body and condition than she and her doctor do?

[LisaL]

41. How would the doctor properly diagnose her over the phone?

What do you know about womans' body, by the way?

[Lucinda]

45. I supposed he's educated enough to listen to a women who had already given birth 4 times

and evaluate the situation. Even in Alaska.

[LisaL]

53. How would the doctor know the 44 year old

woman having a Downs syndrome child would not go into active labor while thousands of feet up in the air?

[seabeyond]

87. lawsuit. cant even get a doctor to tell you to take asprin over the phone for a headache

lawsuit

[anigbrowl]

131. True that. And OB/GYN is one of the most risky practise areas, hence the professional paranoia.

By the way, there's an interesting documentary somewhat related to this produced by Ricki Lake, called 'the business of being born' - not directly relevant to this thread, but worth a watch if you are interested in reproductive health issues.

[Hippo_Tron]

122. I'm sure the doctor was well versed in the Bill Frist school of medicine

[seabeyond]

43. yes leaking exactly = water broke. bone up on the medical facts.

t fiction. not assumption. not guess but facts

[Lucinda]

47. IT doesnt mean she was guhing water and ready to pop. And if you know the facts you know that.

More armchair OB's. This place is full of them lately.

[seabeyond]

51. it means that she was in danger and she needed medical attention. they dont care

if you are gushing (not you, you are a guy huh) or if you are leaking. both are equally dangerous. both require immediate doctor care adn visual examination and both are treated exactly the same way. that is fact. you talk about armchair as you foolishly give out incorrect information

[LisaL]

54. This poster has got to be a man.

[seabeyond]

72. a guy that has no knowledge or info giving out falacy as fact as he challenges fact.... only guys

have challenged this. as i say.... i have not heard ONE woman that has been preg espond in any other way but horror at the idea of walking away from medical attention, where medical care in unattainable. not ONE woman having been preg can even grasp what this woman did. even if you dont care about the baby, geeeez what can happen to her. mere self preservation would kick in

[LisaL]

77. And she is 44 years old.

Older women are at higher risk of complications. It's amazing to me everything went so well and she was able to show up at work just after a few days.

[seabeyond]

86. yup and a special needs baby. i hear ya. unimaginable. n/t

[knitter4democracy]

129. Some of us have actually given birth and are doctors or married to them.

Any leakage of any amniotic fluid means that the plug is compromised. Having almost lost a good friend (another doctor's wife--long story) to the infection that set in after it had been longer than 24 hours, I can assure you that the risk of death is real.

Once the plug is compromised, the water's broken. Period. Doctors do not differentiate between a leak or a gush. Infection can set in with either one to the same rate. Once the water's broken, you have 24 hours to get that baby out, and considering he was born within that time frame, even though he was early and needed to stay in his mom's uterus for as long as possible, says that he was at risk, as was Palin.

Freakin' read up before you start attacking people who know what they're talking about.

[Nine]

49. YES IT DOES!

I've heard that BS line over and over. Find one medical reference to back that claim up.

http://www.adn.com/front/story/382864.html

Still, a Sacramento, Calif., obstetrician who is active in the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said when a pregnant woman's water breaks, she should go right to the hospital because of the risk of infection. That's true even if the amniotic fluid simply leaks out, said Dr. Laurie Gregg.

"To us, leaking and broken, we are talking the same thing. We are talking doctor-speak," Gregg said.

Where do you think the amniotic fluid was coming from if not from a rupture in the membrane?

[Lucinda]

78. leaking does not = imminent birth in every case. If her doc said she could travel safely

I am not going to argue the point. It's stupid. It's her doctor and her body (after giving birth to 4 other children) and it was their decision. I'm going to bet they know more about what she could and couldn't do than we do...

[LisaL]

82. How would this doctor know nothing would happen

in the air, during this very long flight, where she would have no access to medical professionals?

[Lars39]

83. Her doctor didn't examine her after she reported the leak.

Didn't sound like any other doctor had either.

[Nine]

88. But her doc did NOT say she could travel safely, according to the doc herself.

http://www.adn.com/front/story/382864.html

"Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said." HER doctor.

Can you really believe Palin would talk to her doctor and not ask her this most important question of all if this story is on the up and up? My theory is the doctor did not want to say she gave a medical OK to fly because she knew it would make her look like the most incompetent doctor in the world. If Palin really was pregnant, then the only explanation I can think of is that she knew flying was dangerous and she didn't ask because she didn't want to be told not to fly.

[Lucinda]

117. Thanks for that link. Another I read had different info. But the article you link says

"Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.

"I don't think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back," Baldwin-Johnson said.



They don't have an actual quote from the doc about her asking and everything else is directly quoted. Maybe they just left out the "".
At any rate, I think this whole thing is much ado about someone else business. The doc said it wasnt unreasonable for her to have flown.

[Kittycat]

103. The dr didn't say she could travel. And she wasn't due for another month.

And while it was her decision - it's a decision she'd gladly take away from you.

[knitter4democracy]

128. Holy crap. Leaking means you have 24 hours. Period.

Once the plug is compromised, you have 24 hours to get the baby out before the risk of death of the mother and the baby skyrocket.

Look, the baby was pre-term. Early. Too early. As my Ob/Gyn said, every day in the womb is worth two in the NICU. The only reason that baby was born early is because they had no choice--they had to get him out or he or his mom would die.

Leaking means birth will occur in the next 24 hours, whether because the mother pushes the baby out or because the doctor cuts the baby out. It's that simple.

[Nine]

81. Changed your headline, I see. How honest.

First it was "Leaking amniotic fluid doesn't = her water broke" Now that you've been called on your bullshit, you decide to add "they babys comin NOW!!!" No one ever said it did. It does mean get to a hospital.

[seabeyond]

89. ahm you edited it to hide you fuck up. lol lol lol. you are still wrong. edit again. n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

110. Except that that is a lie.

No reputable OB would EVER recommend that a woman with leaking amniotic fluid take a 10 hour flight.

What if the sac ruptured completely and the baby passed meconium? What if the sac ruptured completely and brought the placenta with it.

Sorry. Doesn't wash. Too much risk.

[knitter4democracy]

130. Her doctor is someone, after this story, I don't trust. Thanks.

First of all, FPs don't do high-risk pregnancies. They don't have the training. Their residencies are only three years long and encompass surgery, peds, internal medicine, and Ob/Gyn. Ob/Gyns spend five years in residency only on Ob/Gyn. They're the ones who handle high risk pregnancies. That's the standard of care.

So, from the first, it's fishy. The doctor is hours away from where they live in Juneau (where the governor is supposed to live, anyway). She's at a facility without a NICU. She should have refused to treat and referred Palin to a high-risk pregnancy specialist (I'm sure there's at least one in Ancorage or Juneau). She didn't. She told a woman in pre-term labor in a high risk pregnancy that it was okay to give her speech and fly home after her water broke--when you only have 24 hours at the most to get the baby out. Standard of care would've been for her to go straight to the nearest hospital with the right facilities (specialists, NICU, good ER, etc.). Her doctor did not meet the standard of care. If anything had happened to Palin or the baby, it would've been an instant lawsuit.

Add in the political favors Palin has given the good doctor, and it gets fishier.

[Nine]

135. Stop making so much sense.

Can't you see you're just hurting our side? ;-)

[mudderfudder77]

137. OB Residency is 4 years long

I don't know where you get your info - but OB/GYN residencies in the US are 4 years long. Alaska has no OB residency programs which mean they have no training ground for OB's. Family practice physicians in Alaska are trained more in OB than Family practice residents in most US programs.

[knitter4democracy]

138. My bad. Thought it was the same as surgery.

My hubby's an internist, so his was "just" three years long. No OB residency programs at all? Huh. What about other programs? No wonder we get job notices for Alaskan jobs every other week.

As for FPs up there being trained more, they can't be if there's no program. They can have more experience, sure, but that's not residency training in a high-risk specialty hospital. Big difference. Considering she was the freakin' governor, I'm sure they could find the best high-risk specialist in the state to take care of her.

[scarletwoman]

40. IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER!!!!! What the hell is wrong with you people?!?!

Have you all gone collectively INSANE?

You've got Troopergate. You've got corruption and shady deals while she was mayor of Wasilla. You've got the whole fundy creationist, global warming denial, anti-environmental, anti-choice, anti-birth control, dominionist, theocrat package to go after her with. You've got her foreign policy ignorance.

Get off the damn baby shit!!!!! :banghead:

sw

[Quixote1818]

46. I think it probably BS too but all the posters telling people what to post and what

not to post like yours are irritating. If they want to check into it what is the big fucking deal? Why get all freaked out and upset? Mellow out.

[scarletwoman]

56. Yeah, asking people to stick to real issues with empirical facts to back them up is so confining.

Fine. Let DU be overrun by irrationality and stupidity.

[Quixote1818]

59. Then ask it in a meaningful way rather than scolding them like they are children. nt

[scarletwoman]

62. Oh, sorry. Obviously, being a woman, expressing my anger is "scolding".

Fuck you.

[musicblind]

65. lol, scarlet I am on your side on this. this is a stupid line of discussion

and should be stopped. It comes off as sexist when there are so many other options to discuss about this pick.

But I don't think that telling someone they sound like they are "scolding" a child is in the least bit sexist. I have said that to other men, and have had that said to me. Scolding is a completely, 100%, absolutely positively gender neutral word.

That being said, I don't think, imho, that your post was "scolding".

[Quixote1818]

66. Notice how this person asked

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6847410

Try that next time. It's more effective.

[scarletwoman]

74. Okay, notice how THIS person asked:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6841673&mesg_id=6842471

[Quixote1818]

90. Great Post

:thumbsup: A lot of great points and I agree with it 100%.

[scarletwoman]

91. Thanks. But I hope you'll notice that even with that "great post" I was STILL accused of

being "like a Republican" and "telling people what to do".

And you wonder why I'm flipping out?

[Quixote1818]

92. Things can get hot and out of hand in some posts

It's not that big of a deal and I don't feel like arguing anymore. We both have the same values and the same goals for our country and that is what is most important. I apologize for jumping on you.

[scarletwoman]

100. Peace, man. I don't want to argue, either.

:pals:

sw

[seabeyond]

136. the thing, i know it is a HUGH!!!11! concept, i can actually deal with abuse of power probe

her ineptness as mayor, her problems as gov, her religion and the dominion and the repercussion for the nation, her creationism in the school, her lack of education, foreign policy knowledge regardless of her closeness to russia, no abortion even if raped or incest and many other what you feel are the legitimate issues AND this.

being a mama, multitasking is good.

[Midlodemocrat]

111. It matters. She's a liar.

It matters a great deal.

This woman doesn't want to allow birth control BETWEEN MARRIED COUPLES!!!!!

It matters a whole lot.

[scarletwoman]

118. Get her on lying about troopergate. Get her for her questionable tenure as mayor of Wasilla

that left the city $20,000 in debt. Get her for trying to censor the public library. Get her for her husband's ties to the oil industry and his wholly unauthorized interference in the governor's office. Get her for her flip-flops regarding the Bridge to Nowhere, and copper mining in Bristol Bay. Get her for her anti-environmentalism. Get her for her support of arial shooting of wolves so that rich bastards can do more trophy hunting. Get her for her ignorance of foreign affairs, and her ignorance of U.S. history.

Get her for her whole range of wacko fundamentalist beliefs, including creationism and denial of global warming. And, yes, get her for her anti-birth control beliefs.

NONE of these things require that we question her fitness as a mother. ALL of these things require that we question her fitness as a politician and a leader. We don't need to dig around in her uterus in order to make a case against her. Leave that to the National Enquirer.

sw

[Midlodemocrat]

119. Here's my point.

If she would lie about that, about her FAMILY, it shows a shocking lack of judgment. She put Track's entire unit in harm's way when she announced the date of his deployment.

IF this baby is Bristol's, and in all honesty, as much as it would be a delicious, juicy tidbit, due to the damage that has probably already been done to Bristol, I hope it's not true.

I counseled many pregnant teens. If I suspect what happened is true; that the adoptive parents backed out when they discovered the baby was specials needs, it speaks volumes to me about Palin and her judgment. There are waiting lists years long for people wishing to adopt a DS baby. Addtionally, the subterfuge can't be good for Bristol. Times are different. If they are covering this up the way I suspect, it is strictly political. Palin's abstinence only stance and her stance on no birth control for anyone, even married coulples. IF it is true, to toss your OWN CHILD under the bus for political gain makes you a monster.

JMHO.

[scarletwoman]

121. But there's absolutely NO evidence for any of that! THAT'S the point!

And there's NO traction to be had over the date of deployment thing, every military unit in the country has announced deployment dates with local media all over the leave-taking ceremonies showing hugging, weeping family members, etc. Gawd knows I've seen it often enough on my own local news.

MY point is to go after the things for which there is actual evidence to point to. The public isn't going to tune into some arcane discussion about when Sarah Palin went into labor. And they're certainly not going to respond favorably to some wild speculation from the left that the baby isn't hers -- they'll find it offensive that anyone would bring up such a thing and rush to defend her.

Go after her corruption as a POLITICIAN. Attacking her motherhood is a totally losing strategy -- AND it's sexist.

sw

[Midlodemocrat]

123. Actually, the deployment thing is not what you are talking about.

NOT one branch of the military announces their deployment a full month ahead. NOT ONE.

And, as far as the baby thing goes, a lot of us didn't believe the Edwards story, either. We were proven very wrong. We also thought that the Swift Boaters wouldn't be able to do any damage. Again, we were wrong.

And, it's not sexist for me, as a mother and a psychologist to attack her as a mother. She has put her family in this position. It is my right as a citizen of this country to criticize her in any manner I see fit.

If her child has gotten pregnant, Palin's abstinence only education is a complete failure for her. Do you honestly think a woman like Palin wouldn't throw her child under the bus for political gain. I've known too many people like her who will do absolutely everything they can to get ahead. She's no different.

I'd attack her parenting over this if she were a man, as well.

[scarletwoman]

124. Yeah, whatever. I'm sure your argument will go over big with undecided voters.

They just love conspiracy theories. This is sure to help elect Obama.

[Midlodemocrat]

127. LOL. Actually, IIRC

there was a little matter of the Swift Boaters who did influence undecided voters, but hey, don't let me stop your righteous indignation.

[SoCalDem]

145. Paging Dan Rather.. Paging John Edwards.. pick up the red phone

This "stuff" IS what "matters".. The "average" voter is NOT interested in the "policy" deviations or the "corruption" charges..THIS big ole fat lie she's living IS something they can wrap their brains around, and it DOES prove her to be a LIAR, and not a very good one at that..

Haven't we tired of liars in the White House??

[Quixote1818]

42. If her daughter was having the baby and not her then why would she even need to say

when her water broke? She could have just said it broke when she got back to Alaska.

[Ernesto-Che-Guevara]

44. The baby had no complications

Wouldn't' that mean that her judgment was good? She knows her body and she felt the leak wasn't big enough to run to the hospital. It's her body after all.

And no, the Down syndrome is not a complication stemming from tardiness in going to the hospital.

[JVS]

50. The bullet wasn't in the chamber, thus the russian roulette player had good judgement.

No wrong. FAIL

[Lars39]

52. She put herself and the baby out of reach of medical help for hours

knowing that she was a higher risk pregnancy and knowing that the fetus could have major complications at birth.

[LisaL]

55. If she went into active labor while on the plane, the plane

would have to emergency land. Because she was on commercial flight, her decision could have affected all those passengers.

[kiranon]

114. How do you know? Many Down babies have heart problems.

Medical information is private so how do we really know.

[knitter4democracy]

132. How do we know? Most states allow for suing the doctor for 18 years.

Some states up to the age of 21.

Any leak of any kind is an immediate trip to the hospital. Standard of care is to lay the mother down, do a visual and manual assessment, ultrasound, and fetal monitoring. According to Palin, she felt her contractions had changed to real labor as well. With my first, when my contractions changed, she was born in 12 hours. With my second, he was born in 5.

Down's kids have huge health risks, and putting him at higher risk so he was born in the right state--risk of death of Palin and the baby, mind you--is a political stunt of the worst kind.

[Clear Blue Sky]

57. What a stupid discussion. Makes us look like looney tunes.

Are there not real issues to go after her on?

Are we not champions of a woman's right to choose? To make decisions about her own body?

[LisaL]

61. Tell airline you are leaking amniotic fluid and ask them if they

will let you on a plane.

[Clear Blue Sky]

70. That's fine, but in terms of the voters who will determine this election,

whether she flew after her waters broke won't be an important issue.

Unlike the war, economy, climate change, etc

[LisaL]

73. Can I question her decision making process, assuming

the official story is the truth and nothing but the truth?

[Clear Blue Sky]

93. I guess we can question whatever we want. I'm just more into the politics and questioning that.

[Kittycat]

104. Her politics would probably want to see you imprisoned

If you did that, and something did happen to the baby.

[pookieblue]

112. Ditto..

The offical story..shows that her decision making processes are poor. And she shows a lack of good judgement as well. Not the qualities I want for someone a 'heartbeat' away...

if she was willing to possibly put her child's life at risk...what would she be willing to do with the rest of America?

I do think that MOST women who find that their fluid was leaking..would call their doctor. and most doctors would tell you to go the hosptial right away. They don't want to take any chances.

But she did not do any of those things. Instead she chose to give a speech, then fly 8-12 hours back home.

Is that the type of person we want running our country?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

63. Alternate Explaination

This has been posted elsewhere recently, but I think this is worth considering.

Texas and Alaska have a HUGE rivalry. Which state is the biggest and the best. The oilfields, etc. etc. etc. So her story might have just been a "tall tale" to illustrate the lengths she went to just to avoid having her son be born in Texas and be, by birth, a Texan. It was probably a big applause line during her campaign for governor, but not meant to be taken entirely seriously.

Was she lying? Meh. Who knows? All in all, it really doesn't matter.

[Lars39]

67. Why didn't she deliver at the bigger hospital in Juneau?

That is where she lived, and where she had prenatal care presumably. Given all that could have been wrong with the baby, the larger hospital would have been the logical choice.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

97. It avoid having her kid be born in Texas...

I went to Ohio State. That sounds like the sort of thing somebody from Ohio would say about Michigan (and vice versa for all you Wolverines).

Unless proven otherwise, I'm saying that her story was probably not meant to be taken literally.

[Barack_America]

99. I think the question was, why pass up a better qualified hospital in Juneau...

To deliver at your local hospital. Especially when you know you're delivering a high-risk child.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

109. Hoo-boy...

I know that DU is often humor-impaired, so let me say it plainly...

IT WAS A JOKE.

As in, don't take it literally.

[Barack_America]

115. Sorry. But I'm from MI....

And that whole refusal to have a child in OH is actually believable to me, lol.

But there's a bit of a difference hi-tailing it to MI from OH than there is AK from TX.

[knitter4democracy]

133. Depends on where in Ohio.

I'm from Michigan, but we were living in Cleveland when we had our daughter. The hospital where I had her in Mayfield Hts. was pretty good. ;)

[SoCalDem]

146. Why would she need prenatal care? Todd "fluffed her pillow" a few times a week

she was only "officially" pregnant for a month or so.. a busy governor can carefully arrange schedules to her own needs..

[vaberella]

64. The issue isn't about it being fake or not.

It's the fact that no one has a single shred of proof. She says it's her kid. It's her kid. Posession is 9/10ths of the law.

[gatorboy]

68. How many threads are you gonna start about this? Enjoy stirring the pot?

:eyes:

[gatorboy]

69. Dupe

Oy.

[hexola]

71. How about this? THEY WERE BOTH PREGNANT!

Maybe Sarah Palin lost her child to miscarriage and adopted Bristols child as hers...

[LisaL]

75. Oh good lord.

Now that's stupid.

[hexola]

76. I think it makes a much more palusible scenario...You think fake pregnacy makes more sense?

I dont - this falls into place much nicer...

[LisaL]

84. Oh you can't be serious.

[hexola]

85. As serious as anyone else on this thread...makes more sense to me.

[slackmaster]

79. My take is that I don't give a flying fuck

:hi:

[Balderdash]

108. Why do we give a shit?

How about her stance on womens reproductive rights, that's what I care about.

[Straight Shooter]

126. But of course it was perfectly safe for her to fly in that condition.

God was her co-pilot. :P

[pnwmom]

134. Reckless, stupid OR maybe she just didn't care if the baby didn't live. n/t

[Awsi Dooger]

144. I have no take on any of that

Big picture and real-world dominate. I've been through the same arguments on true crime sites, more times than I care to remember. Posters who dig through every minute detail and cynically try to invent a story that jives with all the variables are exponentially less likely to arrive at the truth, not more likely. Occam's Razor.

A woman in her 40s had a baby. That's all this amounts to.