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Telephone Voting: An Idea That's Too Logical

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snyder Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 05:42 PM
Original message
Telephone Voting: An Idea That's Too Logical
Edited on Sat Aug-28-04 05:52 PM by snyder
This year, there will be a lot of skepticism about the election results because of the proliferation of touch-screen voting machines that lack a paper trail to confirm their results. None of this had to happen, because there is a far easier, cheaper, more secure and completely verifiable way to vote electronically. It has the added advantage of almost guaranteeing a much higher turnout.

Touch-tone voting. Here's how it would work:

1. Voters could choose to vote via absentee ballot or in person, with no reason required for voting absentee.

2. Those who choose absentee voting would get a voting booklet in the mail that listed the candidates and ballot propositions, along with any explanatory material mandated by law. They would also get a code number to use when they voted by phone. People could download the booklet and voting list on the Internet, but not the code number.

3. To vote, you'd call an 800 number and enter your code. A series of voice-mail prompts would lead you through the choices. You could also choose to "skip ahead" or "no vote for this office/question." Each choice would be confirmed by hitting the # key. At the end, you'd get a list of all your votes. You confirm them by hitting the # key, and you'd cast your vote by hitting the # key again.

4. As soon as you hit the second # key, your votes (and/or decisions not to vote in some races) would become final. The system would generate two paper records, one that would be mailed to you and another that would be kept at the election authority.

5. People who wanted to vote in person could do so in the usual manner. Whether you voted absentee or in person, you'd have your choice of paper or touch-tone.

6. Voting would take place over a three-week period, as it now does in states like Oregon and Washington. In national races, balloting would end at 8 p.m. Eastern time on Election Day, i.e., 7 p.m. in the Central zone, 6 p.m. in the Mountain zone, 5 p.m. in the Pacific zone. Balloting would begin at staggered times to equalize the amount of time each region was given, i.e., voting would start at 9 a.m. Pacific, 10 a.m. Mountain, 11 a.m. Central, Noon Eastern.

7. Election Day and Veterans Day would be combined into a new national holiday to be held on the first Monday in November. In-person balloting would take place over the three-day weekend ending on Election Day.


===============

Q: Why telephone voting and not Internet voting?
A: Everyone has a telephone and is familiar with voice-mail prompts, and the switched telephone network is much more secure than the Internet.

Q: But everyone hates voice-mail systems.
A: Only when they get trapped in them. Besides, most people don't like standing around the polling place either. This would be much easier. Besides, people who wanted a paper ballot could request one.

Q: Why do you say the Internet is not secure?
A: That answer can get really geeky, so I'll save it for a separate Q & A at the end.

Q: Have you talked to anyone about this?
A: I've written letters to a bunch of newspapers but they never print them, and it's impossible to get an Op-Ed piece into a newspaper unless you either know someone or hire a press agent.

Q: You're cynical about the media, aren't you?
A: Am I wrong?

Q: Why is your idea "too logical?"
A: Because Diebold can't make much money off of it. It's fraud-proof. It's too easy.

Q: What's wrong with a fraud-proof system?
A: Both parties depend on election fraud.

Q: Why is it too easy?
A: Both parties depend on keeping turnout down rather than increasing it. This is why negative campaigning is the coin of the realm. It's not about getting your people out, it's about discouraging anyone you think might vote for the other guy.

Q: Why do you think this would be cheap?
A: Because voice-response systems have been out there for many years. There's absolutely no rocket science here.

Q: Couldn't they just link each person's vote to their code number? Voila! There goes the secret ballot.
A: This could happen with absentee ballots now. At some point, you've got to place some level of trust in the election authority. There are ways to make sure elections are operated in a rigorously non-partisan manner.

Q: Couldn't people just sell their code numbers?
A: Yes, they could. But they can sell their absentee ballots now. The question is really whether a candidate would buy them. Any meaningful vote buying operation would be big enough to be detected.

Q: You're talking about a huge shift to absentee voting. Wouldn't that simply move the fraud to the registration process?
A: Yes it would. First of all, nothing's perfect, but secondly, it's easier to go after registration fraud than it is to go after actual voting fraud. After all, with registration fraud you've got that paper trail.

Q: Why do you think your system would boost participation?
A: Because it would be much easier to cast a vote.

Q: Do you ever think anyone will pay attention to your idea?
A: No.

Q: So why are you bothering?
A: Because I don't have anything else going on this afternoon.


=============

FOR GEEKS ONLY:


Q: Why is the Internet less secure than the phone system?
A: For starters, you need to understand that the Internet and the phone system are pretty much the same thing. The main differences are the way information is encoded, and the number of access points to the information that's transmitted.

Q: But they're always talking about "the Internet" as if it's separate.
A: Yeah, I know. But "they" say lots of inaccurate things. There is no such physical entity as the Internet. It's a "virtual" network that runs side-by-side with the one that you use to make phone calls.

Q: What do you mean by "coding" of the Internet, and why does it matter?
A: By itself, it's doesn't matter. It's only an issue because of the number of access points. The "Internet" uses a coding system called Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol or TCP/IP for short. The telephone system uses something called Pulse Code Modulation, or PCM for short.

Q: O.K., so why do I care?
A: TCP/IP transmissions go through things called "routers," while PCM transmissions go through things called "switches."

Q: O.K., so why do I care?
A: A TCP/IP transmission can be broken up into zillions of tiny segments called "packets" and each of them can use a different path to get to the destination, in this case the vote-counting machine. In doing so, the packets go through lots of different routers. A PCM transmission cannot be broken up. If it's a local call it goes a couple switches. If it's a long-distance call it does through maybe four switches.

Q: I'm being patient, but why do I care?
A: It's a whole lot easier to break into all those routers than it is to break into the few switches. Telephone switches are very, very secure. Yeah, they've been known to go down from time to time, but they are light-years more secure than the routers.

Q: Can't you just encrypt the Internet traffic to keep it secure?
A: Sure, but there are a bunch of other issues such as it being impossible to truly verify where an Internet message is coming from or where it's going to. The issues go way beyond whether someone could look over your shoulder as you voted.

Q: Such as?
A: Remember those access codes that would be mailed to everyone? Well, sure as day follows night someone would find a way to hack into people's computers and steal the codes.

Q: What else?
A: About every three weeks there's a new warning about a new flaw in Microsoft's browser, which happens to be what the overwhelming majority of people use. Internet voting would inspire even less confidence than Florida's new touchscreens. Touch-tone phones are rock solid.

Q: Yeah, but what if I have a "VoIP phone?"
A: Ah, "Voice over Internet Protocol." Mostly a geek toy these days but it might take off in the next few years. If you got a VoIP phone then you'd have to use a paper ballot or cast your vote from a different phone. Or the government would have to set standards for VoIP carriers so calls to the voting number would not travel on the Internet.

Q: What about voting from a cellphone?
A: Nope. You'd have to do it from a landline. But remember, you could still request a paper ballot or vote in person on Election Weekend.

Q: How would they know if you're calling from a VoIP phone or a cellphone?
A: Ever hear of Caller I.D.? VoIP and cellphone numbers would be registered as such, and blocked from using the election system.

Q: But some "switched" calls go over the "Internet" for part of their journey right now.
A: That's a deep technical issue, but I think it could be easily resolved by requiring any call to a voting system to be sent through switches. This could be automated. It's not hard.

Q: You wrote that you'd allow people to download election booklets from the Internet? That's not very logical.
A: Sure it is. You could get non-individual public voting information from the web, but nothing that requires absolute security.

Q: The weak link here is the post office.
A: No it's not. Stealing a bunch of election codes would be a physically daunting and easily detectable operation.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, phone voting works real good
like on those reality shows where you phone in your vote. </sarcasm>

They proved they were rigged.
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snyder Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. But You'd Have A Unique Code
<They proved they were rigged.>

How could it be rigged if you had to use a code to vote?

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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. And Is This Proposed By A Diebold Subsidiary???
First obvious question is where's the paper trial???

The problem with voting isn't people going to the polls, it's registering them to vote that gives them the reason to go to the polls.

Electronic voting without a hard-copy form of verification is inviting more corruption, not less, and the disenfranchisement of the very people this supposed system is supposed to help.

Try again...thanks for playing...
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snyder Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. See #4 Above
It would be no different than an absentee vote
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