Wingers say Kerry committed war crimes

[rumguy]

What war crimes did he commit?

I've been researching this, and it all seems to come back to some comments Kerry made.

However, it is unclear to me what the extent of his war crimes were. I know he wasn't a cold-blooded killer like Lt. Calley - far from it - I imagine him as a decent guy trying his best to work within the policies that had been already set before he even arrived. I believe he thinks by even participating, in a mild way in these policies, such as free fire zones, that is, in itself a war crime.

But what is the evidence? Anyone know...it's all very murky.

[NEOBuckeye]

1. And Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rove and Feith haven't?

[bluestateguy]

2. That's a laugh: From people who usually dismiss war crimes

Unless they are committed against the US of A.

[havocmom]

3. And the SBVliars are pissed at him cuz he pointed out Nam was a lot

of atrocities. Amazing how easily bent the human mind can be.

[dogtag]

4. Kerry said

in his Senate testimony, and I'm paraphrasing, that the government policies of free fire zones, scorched earth, etc. were in themselves tantamount to war crimes. I believe he also said that after he returned from Viet Nam and began to do research, he found that these activities ran counter to the Geneva Convention. He had participated in burning down villages and food supplies as instructed by his superiors.

[papau]

5. Free fire zones and harassing fire are Kerry's only admitted "war crime"

GOP like to imply that Kerry speeches opposing war when he got back to the States were treason because folks in North 'Nam may have had those speeches rebroadcast to them - and they were thereby made less "happy".

[rumguy]

6. These are his comments on MTP in '71

"SEN. KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals."

Kerry followed orders. The war was conducted in an immoral way. There was virtually no way to serve on the front lines without breaking some international law. Of course, the real atrocities were committed by those like Lt. Calley - some took the policy and used it as an exuse for cold-blooded killing of total innocents - and that's the real danger in setting policy like they did in Vietnam. It's the same kind of shit that led to Abu 'Grub'.

That's my take on it...thus far.

[JPJones]

7. Meet the Press 1971

MR. KERRY (Vietnam Veterans Against the War): There are all kinds of atrocities and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free-fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare. All of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free-fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4772030

Meet the Press 2004

SEN. KERRY: Well, let me just finish. Let me must finish. It was, I think, a reflection of the kind of times we found ourselves in and I don't like it when I hear it today. I don't like it, but I want you to notice that at the end, I wasn't talking about the soldiers and the soldiers' blame, and my great regret is, I hope no soldier--I mean, I think some soldiers were angry at me for that, and I understand that and I regret that, because I love them. But the words were honest but on the other hand, they were a little bit over the top. And I think that there were breaches of the Geneva Conventions. There were policies in place that were not acceptable according to the laws of warfare, and everybody knows that. I mean, books have chronicled that, so I'm not going to walk away from that. But I wish I had found a way to say it in a less abrasive way.

[liberal N proud]

8. Define War Crimes!

You take an 18 year old fresh out of high school where his biggest concern is the next date and Friday nights football game. You hand him a gun an for 6 weeks all he hears is kill gooks. Then he is rushed to the jungle where he can't tell the friend or foe, so he is freaked out and just starts to shoot at anything that moves.
If he shoots friend then someone will cry war crimes.
The soldier can't be blamed for most of what is done on the battle field considering he has been ordered to shoot to kill. The commanders are the ones who are responsible, and I don't mean the ones in the field, it is the commander that is sitting safely behind a desk somewhere that has ordered these men to kill!
It really is no different today, those soldiers being tried for the abuse in Iraq were ordered to do so.

I am sure this will be a road they will go down for the next smear. Because it will work.

[1monster]

9. My guess? They are trying to confuse JOHN KERRY with Bob KerrEy.

the former Senator from Nebraska.

I've been expecting this for a long time and was surprised that they didn't try this before.

[A_Possum]

14. Right.

Although once they started confusing things, they just kept going.

[MrBenchley]

10. So first he was a coward who didn't earn medals, and now...

Guess the right wing is no longer concerned about plausibility, are they?

[maine_raptor]

11. When has consistency been their strong suit n/t

[A_Possum]

15. Not only that, but NO atrocities were committed in Vietnam...

except "Kerry committed atrocities."

[OHswingvoter]

12. I think the free-fire

zones which just about everyone participated in are sometimes considered a war crime. Kerry has admitted to taking part while in the war. But you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. You are majorly fucked if you disobey orders when you are over there. As far as I know only a handful of people were prosecuted for war crimes in Vietnam so I don't think they were nearly as wide spread as rumored. I guess technically you can be criticized but really it is not a big deal.

[liveoaktx]

13. A point of argument- make THEM come up with the source

original source, if possible. I used to argue with people's suppositions before and then find out that the PREMISE for the argument was faulty. Any time someone has something to tout in an argument, they should be prepared FIRST to show their evidence. And THEN your time spent to refute is valuable.

[otohara]

16. War Crimes In Vietnam - No Sir!

none in Iraq either, so stop saying that!

[JohnKleeb]

17. Yet at the same time

They say he was lying about the atrocities. Love the two way game they play.

[gumby]

18. The Vietnam war and the Iraq war

ARE war crimes.

Government Policy WAS a war crime in Vietnam, just as we see today in Iraq.

I've known of horrendous atrocities in Vietnam (on all sides). I've seen horrible things that have happened in Iraq right on my teevee. Do you think that Shock and Awe was anything other than a war crime? Abu Ghraib? On and on?

But actually calling a war crime a war crime will cause the right-wing to screech at full tilt. By calling out government policies for the war crimes they actually are, the right will respond that you are smearing the troops and the veterans and ask why you "hate America."

And just what do you think this government funded in South and Central America not so long ago? Things so horrible you don't even want to know.

[CityDem]

19. Kerry also conspired with Oswald

More smears from the right wing. Pretty soon they will have witnesses who saw Kerry in Dealy Plaza on the grassy knoll.