Here is one really big thing I disagree with Obama on (and maybe most of DU):

[DuaneBidoux]

I don't care how much money Iraq has now it is not right to expect them to shoulder the burden of rebuilding their own country. As Colin Powell said (and here I agree), "if you break it you fix it."

They have already paid with the blood of thousands of their fellow countrymen, losing their children en masse to indiscriminte bombings and watching us tear the fabric of their society apart.

To think they should pay is like someone getting mugged and not expecting retribution from the criminal just because that person is well off.

Sorry, on this one I feel that we should be financially on the hook even if it will be painful.

[thunder rising]

1. At this time after WW2 Germany was well on the way to reconstruction. There is a point that it is

obvious that Iraqis are fine with the way things are. So, it's time to pack up and leave. If the wingers that started this war feel bad then THEY can go help fix it.

[CJCRANE]

2. The one silver lining for Iraq

is that the high oil price means that the Iraqi govt has an $80 billion budget surplus.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

14. oh and don't forget the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese paid for the war

by investments

[DuaneBidoux]

8. Germany is a very poor example--THEY invaded others.

And while WWI taught us the folly of forcing a broken country to pay reparations we as the invader (as was Germany) are hardly in the totally shattered condition of Germany.

We can do it, and more importantly we should because it is the right thing to do.

Mind you, I'm not saying stay in and rebuild for them. I'm saying something on the order of a Marshall plan where they are in charge of the rebuilding.

[elocs]

3. I agree. We trashed the country and contributed to its continual trashing.

When we go we should leave them with some money in the bank to run the country. It would be worth it to have them take over the fighting for their own country.

[Muttocracy]

4. I know Biden is a big believer in international aid as a diplomatic tool

He's been arguing that we're spending a fraction on reconstruction in Afghanistan compared to military action in Iraq. He has also pushed aid to Pakistan for humanitarian, development, etc. purposes. Based on what I've seen Biden, Menendez, others say in SFRC hearings, I don't think they're going to advocate abandoning Iraq - for security and humanitarian reasons.

[Flaxbee]

5. I agree. Can we send them maybe 1/4 of what

we're spending on the war now per month, and let them hire the help? Bring our people back here safely, get them all out of harm's way, and say "Here, we're sorry we trashed your infrastructure and poisoned your land with depleted uranium. Use some of these billions to bring in help who knows how to build, not destroy." And while the US DOES know how to build if we so choose, somehow I don't think the Iraqis would be interested in hiring us to clean up our own mess...

I do not believe it is their job to fix what we have broken. Iraq can choose how they'd like to fix their country, but BushCo destroyed Iraq for no good reason, and like any parent dealing with an unruly child, the US has to take responsibility and help.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. I agree with you on that.

We owe them reparations. They don't owe us shit.

[EC]

7. So you think we should build their

Honeymoon Bagdad Island and giant Farris Wheel they are planning?

We put in blood and money rebuilding infrastruture and schools only to have them blown up again...maybe if they had a stack in it they wouldn't be so quick to blow it up...

[DuaneBidoux]

9. I believe they, as the agressed nation, deserve reparations.

It will never come close to the lives our invasion has cost them, but it is the right thing to do.

[Cleita]

12. I agree and as much as we probably can't afford it with our busted

Treasury, we need to try. I think we should think of seizing the assets of those companies who profited from the war like Halliburton, Kellogg, Brown and Root and all the oil companies that were complicit in the war profiteering and use the proceeds of the sales of their assets and/or income to help the Iraqi people rebuild their country which we destroyed.

[grasswire]

10. the difference is this, I think

They have refused (apparently) to settle their sectarian and ethnic differences enough to move ahead with their own governance. They rely on our resources to punish each other for their old internal battles. I don't think we should be providing security for those who will not work toward internal peace.

[DuaneBidoux]

15. And I am not saying provide manpower of any kind. Reparations in some fashion.

It is true that if they want to rebuild they will have to take the initiative on their own but I am simply saying that this tune of "they have 84 billion in the bank why should we pay anything is not one I can accept." They're infrastructure has been completely destroyed and for the most part is was the U.S. that did it. We cannot simply say we owe them nothing now.

[eshfemme]

11. The only problem is that I believe our presence there exacerbates the problem.

The problem is that Iraq was an artificial construct in the first place when their territorial borders were decided upon arbitrarily by the British colonialists. When Iraq became an independent country, they retained those borders but the Shia, Sunni and Kurds that would have organically formed different countries were basically lumped together. With the removal of Saddam's dictatorship, which served as an effective stopper to all the tensions these 3 groups had, there was no wonder there was all this chaos that has erupted.

Now, our troops are in the middle of what is effectively, an Iraqi civil war between the Shia and Sunni. The Kurds voluntarily removed themselves from that conflict for the most part by segregating themselves and forming a pseudo country named Kurdistan with their own infrastructure complete with police and military. The problem is that unlike America, Iraq never chose to unite together to form a perfect union-- they were forced together. Also, American influence is basically now a pawn that is being fought over between the Shia and Sunni. Right now, the current dynamic is the Shia majority is basically dominating the Sunni minority. There are, of course, instances where these two sects are living together on the plebeian level but politically, there is a great deal of conflict between these two sects. Currently, American diplomacy is to try to use American intelligence and resources to bribe the people in power to make nice but it's not really working very well. Despite the "success" of the surge, it's just going to erupt again because with Americans in the mix, one side is just too overly empowered to commit atrocities and perpetuate violence.

Also, with American troops here, we make a good scapegoat for the people who need one. Most of the violence is really between Iraqis but they can basically blame US for being here and causing all this violence. In pulling out, they lack that excuse anymore and perhaps, they will degenerate further (we had that conflict in the Civil War but we held together because we are a UNION) or else they might realize that they need to work things out.

That's how I feel. I sympathize because I used to belong to the whole "We should probably stay there until we fix it again" but it's not possible to fix because there's no way for us to turn back the clock on Iraq-- we can only hope to have them make something of themselves that's different and unique to Iraq. That's all.

[DuaneBidoux]

13. I'm not saying stay there, I'm saying pay reparations after we leave...

and try to make sure they get distributed among the people.

Perhaps some kind of international conference trying to jump start the process, get other Muslim countries involved in the rebuilding along with the Europeans, but completely at the behest of the Iraqis.

[eshfemme]

17. The problem with reparations is that with how corrupt the current accounting process is

with both OUR and the Iraqi governments, there is no guarantee that the reparations will actually get to the Iraqi people. Also, it's pretty much an insult to their faces. We need to find a way for them to heal themselves that mere money can not buy. But the first step needs to be to pull out so they can clean up their own government, however they do it, and clean up OUR government so that we are in a better position to help make things up to them.

[WinkyDink]

16. I agree. I also cannot stand hearing (HRC was fond of this one) that Iraq ought to get on the stick

and stabilize their government and country!