The Moderate Voice questions Palin's pregnancy story...

[Barack_America]

Notes that pictures of Palin from last spring were removed from the website of the AK governor.

http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/sarah-palin/22236/the-fully-vetted-sarah-palin/

Palin at 6 mos. pregnant:


I also found a picture of her that dates to March 14, 2008 (when she would have been 7 mos. pregnant) and a video of her, wearing the same outfit as above, when she would have been 6 mos. pregnant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3879229&mesg_id=3882488


So we'll see. I'd at least like a better explanation for why she would travel by plane after her water had broken (or even "leaked"), during a high-risk pregnancy with a known special-needs child. That sets a very dangerous example for American women, IMO.

ETA: The main issue here is that McCain did not properly vet Palin. So I guess it's up to all of us to do that now. Remember, should McCain win, there's a pretty strong possibility Palin would become President.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. 6 months pregnant?

I don't think so.

Something's not right with this story.

[Boz]

2. You decide, a family photo from Februrary

Source:
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/339587.html

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. The Aura is there

she is pregnant.

[Boz]

9. The Mona Lisa Smile, and the body language of the photo composition

It may very well have been this photo that made her come up with the "cover story" when she found out the truth.

I even question the downs syndrome angle at this point, photos I have seen of the child point to Inuit anthropology and coloring more than downs syndrome.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. The lower gut also at that age is not from over eating

the growth is not in the stomach or hips but in the breasts and uterus.

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. My X wife and I worked with a half way house for trouble female teens

that lived in a shelter. I worked with midwifes for 4 years.


I helped deliver both of my children at home

[geek_sabre]

153. bs

[sniffa]

20. You should make a thread about this cover story

[Beausoir]

58. "I even question the downs syndrome angle at this point". So Down's is now an angle to get elected?

You are simply sick in the head.

Get the FUCK out of my Democratic party.

[Boz]

83. Your the reason we keep losing, Head in the sand ignore what happens around you.

I did not create this situation I am commenting on it.

I am talking about an anthropological factor.

The images of the child do not demonstrate the common encephilo ocipital socket deformations involved in down syndrome and related genetics. The pictures do however have a demonstrative set of bone and facial pointers that are common in the Inuit peoples which happen to be indigenous to the geography.

Now ask yourself is it my fault if that is observable or the fault of the individuals that perpetrated this, trying to pull the wool over someones eyes.

Now its out of hand and in the open because they're judgment is no longer just a local concern, but both international and my personal futures as well as yours.

If you want to ignore that, thats your choice, not mine.

[GrizzlyMan]

94. You are spot on

When I saw the baby this morning, my first reaction was that her husband was Inuit because it looked, as you said, like the baby has that bone structure. I then saw that her husband looks like a garden variety caucasian.

My personal opionion is that it is the daughter's baby and with Alaska being a small state population wise, and with a rich history of corrupt politicians, it would be easy for her to pull this off. The question is, do we exploit the story? Do we need to go that route to win? I would love to see her destroyed politically, but I'm concerned about it being blamed on the Obama campaign.

[Emit]

109. FWIW, her husband's grandmother is Yup'ik

~snip~
Todd Palin, who has been a quiet background presence in her campaign, broadens the family resume considerably: fisherman, oil field worker and Alaska Native. The family fishes a commercial setnet site on the Nushagak River in Bristol Bay every summer. Todd has worked 18 years on the North Slope for BP, where he is now a production operator, a job Sarah says he would quit if she's elected. His Yup'ik grandmother, Helena Andree, grew up in a traditional Native household in Bristol Bay and now lives in Homer.
~snip~

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8334949p-8231037c.html

[1Hippiechick]

142. Of COURSE it's an angle! She's PRO-LIFE and knew there were problems prior to the baby's birth!

(provided that the baby DOES suffer from Downs syndrome.)

WHAT a patriotic, flag-waving, cross-bearing woman! The far right evangelicals will LOVE her for this. And you owe the poster an apology for telling him to GTF out of YOUR Democratic party! That sounds like RW bullshit talk!

[Iris]

149. Are you serious? They are framing this as she is pro-life and her refusal to abort a Downs Syndrome

child is basically a way to say that anyone who is pro-choice would abort a genetically comprised child, which is certainly NOT the case.

[Spider Jerusalem]

98. That's rather silly...

do you know that Down syndrome was referred to as 'Mongoloid idiocy', upon a time? Do you know WHY? Because people with Down syndrome have an epicanthic fold, something found in Asians (or, in the racial taxonomy of the 19th century, 'Mongoloids') and several other ethic groups, including guess who? The Inuit. Really, you should be embarrassed.

[Boz]

101. Sorry to dissapoint your web skills, it is not the mongoloid aspects I am speaking about

In fact just the opposite. No joint sutures, no neck nape, no flat spots on the skull, no occipitpal upturn.

BIG DIFFERENCE

[JVS]

The door swings both ways. Your post doesn't contradict suspicions it explains them

The similarities in appearance that caused it to be called mongoloid idiocy in the past can be used by the family to pass off a child whose ethnicity does not match the supposed father as simply having Down's syndrome

[K Gardner]

146. As a nurse who worked in peds for decades, there did not seem to me to be an OBVIOUS

Down's appearance to the baby; however, not all manifestations are of the more well-known, typical variety. Still, it gave me pause and I think will certainly be looked into by others as well.

[anigbrowl]

37. I have to agree

I have (or rather had) two kids from a previous marriage, and she sure looks pregnant to me based on my past experience. I'm no doctor but but the hollow navel was what caught my eye.

I wrote elsewhere that this is just a rumor and we should still be careful about it because of the backlash potential. To my mind if it turns out Bristol Palin was pregnant rather than her Mom, that's her business. They wouldn't be the first family to try and conceal or sidestep the fact for a variety of reasons, and shouldn't be condemned for it. But nor should we jump to conclusions based on a few photos and some odd stories about travel arrangements.

[vaberella]

4. Everytime I see this pic I freak. n/t

[Kittycat]

5. Had to bookmark this to watch it.

The girl on the far right looks to be the pregnant one to me.

[vaberella]

7. That's the thing Kittycat. That's the 16 (at the time) year old daughter. n/t

[Barack_America]

8. I'm pretty sure that photo is from 2006.

Where did you hear that it was from February?

:shrug:



Photo by LESTER / Anchorage Daily News

Sarah Palin at home with her family in Wasilla, Alaska in 2006. From left is Piper, 5, husband Todd, Willow, 12, and at right is Bristol, 16. Not pictured is Palin's son Track, 17. Trig Palin was born in 2008.

[Boz]

17. Check the source where does it say that.

[Boz]

18. Heres a family photo from 2006, note the youngest daughters aging

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. Notice the glow!

and the lower gut, there is a larger picture of it from today.

Now booze can go to the gut in some women but not at that age.

[Pepper32]

69. Yeah, I agree the daughter is the one that was pregnant and gave birth

[katandmoon]

70. I showed this pic to a doctor friend of mine who has seen many many pregnant women

He said that girl definitely looks pregnant to her.

[Ichingcarpenter]

81. Who is the blond? The daughter is holding the baby isn't she?

And she holds the child like a real mother would.

The blond looks much older.

[Pepper32]

90. Yes, the daughter is the one holding the baby .

And I agree she is holding the baby in a very maternal way.

[AZBlue]

121. Look at her face in that last picture.

That's a mom looking down at her baby.

[NoodleyAppendage]

10. The daughter is the one with the "bun in the oven." Why would Palin "cover up" her pregancy?

Looks like her daughter got knocked up and Palin is covering for her.

J

[Left Is Write]

13. I'm noticing something the more I see this picture.

Look how the governor is holding Willow's elbow so that her arm is covering the governor's abdomen. Note also the loose-fitting vest she's wearing. This could easily be the governor hiding her OWN pregnancy. Perhaps her late announcement was due to the complications with her pregnancy.

However, that only cements in my mind that she was extremely reckless and used very poor judgment the day before the baby was born.

[JVS]

35. either way, we can benefit

[chatnoir]

25. The girl on the right looks to be the pregnant one

And the way she's holding her hands in front of her stomach... almost to hide it a bit?

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. That teenage daughter looks pregnant in that picture

[Barack_America]

47. I'm confident that this photo is from 2006.

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8334949p-8231037c.html

[Boz]

49. The photo in that link is from October 2006, while the clothes are similar the age difference in the

youngest is clear.

[Barack_America]

65. I'm sorry, but I don't follow. You think the family photo is NOT from 2006? nt

[Emit]

118. She was pregnant in this photo, too, fwiw

"...She also found time to pose for fashion magazine Vogue while she was pregnant, and she has been mentioned among potential vice presidential running mates for John McCain..."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/05/04/alaska_governor_balances_babys_needs_official_duties/

[Ichingcarpenter]

122. How does this fit into the time line...... please add that

We know about the vogue shot. But place it into the timeline.


Edit your post if you can ...... thanks.

[Emit]

127. I was going to guess, based on the article I linked to. This was the Feb '08 Vogue

so the shoot could've occurred several weeks before February. Anyone know when photo shoots for these kinds of magazine covers and articles take place? :shrug:

[Emit]

139. That's a Photoshopped picture -- not the real cover

so ignore all that I posted:

http://kodiakkonfidential.blogspot.com/2008/01/sarahs-vogue.html

[AZBlue]

117. The girl on the right certainly looks like she could be pregnant.

She'd have been 6 or 7 months there and since babies with downs syndromes weigh less, she could definitely be pregnant.

Can't tell about Sarah - that outfit covers her body up too much.

[no_hypocrisy]

141. Uncertain about Sarah Palin, but her daughter is pregnant in this photo, ca. 6 mos.

[Prophet 451]

154. It's the daughter's hands that make me wonder

Normally, I'd just write this off as groundless speculation but the position the daughter is holding her hands make me wonder. Is she covering or protecting? If she's normally slightly overweight, she probably wouldn't be holding her hands like that. If she was self-conscious about it, she'd more likely be facing the picture straight on and/or have her arms crossed over her stomach.

The way she's holding her hands looks very like the "protection" position that pregnant women frequestnly adopt, subconsciously checking and supporting their belly. Also, and I hate bringing this up because I know it'll be seen as prurient, her breasts look disproportionatly large for her frame. Now, I know that's not all that unusual, it's just a little visual thing which makes me think "huh".

EDIT: There's other things as well. Eight months would be an unusually long case of mono. Again, not unheard of but unusual. Palin the elder doesn't look pregnant in photos from that time frame. The ones of her which were apparently taken 15 days before and 3 days after birth especially, don't show the tertiary weight gain which usually accompanies pregnancy (i.e. the neck and wrists). Again, the absence of such weight gain isn't all that rare but it is slightly unusual.

In sum, I dunno. There's nothing here which screams "cover-up" at me (but yes, I think Palin is dotty enough to do so), there's just lots of little details that make me wonder.

[vaberella]

6. I admit it Kristi. I don't see an indication of baby. I've never been pregnant but 6 months?!

I'd think we'd see something. And she seems very normal with nothing awkward.

[tabatha]

11. If you watch this video

to the part where Sarah is with McCain, you will see the older daughter with the baby. She looks like the mother.

http://www.ktva.com/video?bcpid=1641243975&bclid=1632695727&bctid=1761990935

But the pictures above would have to be 2007/2008 - if the baby was born this year.

[LongDistanceRunner]

52. picture is from Feb 2008, just before Palin revealed she was 'pregnant'

[invictus]

12. This needs to be thoroughly investigated. n/t

[AlCzervik]

14. so if this is true than how many people would have been involved in this cover up, a lot

and that's where i think it's not possible. Her doctor, the staff at the hospital and an insurance company all covered this up? I'm sorry but i just don't think it's possible.

[NYC Liberal]

21. Why would they need to cover up?

First off, the hospital people couldn't talk. HIPAA. Second, the insurance co. may not have known in which case - fraud.

[AlCzervik]

24. wouldn't the birth certificate need the mother's name? Anyhow, i'm just going to

respectfully agreee to disgree with y'all on this.

[alcibiades_mystery]

89. My daughter's birth certificate is signed by Ed Rendell

Just sayin'...

:-)

This is nonsense. Seventeen year olds rarely have downs syndrome children. 43 year olds, on the other hand, are in the fat end of the risk group for downs. Silly conspiracy nonsense for yet another DU parlor game.

[Ichingcarpenter]

113. Wait , I thought you were Gay?

I didn't know that about you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

145. Huh?

:shrug:

I'm married to a person of the opposite sex, and we have a 2 year old.

:-)

[JustAnotherGen]

151. Off topic

My Consulate Papers (American born at Rammstein AFB) - were signed by Warren Christopher! :rofl:

[AZBlue]

120. Insurance company could know everything - they couldn't release a patient's info either.

[GrizzlyMan]

95. Oh, it wouldn't be as hard as you think

Insurance company? They could have easily paid for the medical care out of pocket.

The hospital staff? Threatened with termination if they talk. I imagine hospital jobs aren't easy to get in Alaska. And it doesn't take 50 people to deliver a baby.

The doctor? I'm pretty sure her doctor would go along with it. People fear power and it makes them do things they wouldn't ordinarly do. The doctor could also be a close friend of the family, willing to do it to protect their friend.

Alaska is still in many ways the wild west. It is isolated. There aren't a lot of reporters from the NY Times or Washington Post snooping around up there.

[last_texas_dem]

16. I'm not sure what's more disturbing

How un-pregnant Palin looks at "seven months along" or the fact that the woman on the left's head is on fire! :scared:

[Ichingcarpenter]

31. 7 months and no glow

there is no aura.

[Emit]

128. lol!

funny!

You are correct, and I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out!!

[Beausoir]

22. My god. You GO girl!

I think you should DEMAND to examine the placenta.

I'm series!!1

Don't stop until you get her up in the stirrups and personally poke around her cervix for awhile.

Go get that mysterious womb, Kristi!

The fate of a nation hinges upon you and your amazing ability to hunt down false pregnancies!

[LongDistanceRunner]

54. this fire is beyond your efforts at dousal

[Bonobo]

55. Don't you dare use the language of Pro-Choice to obscure the issues!

If she is lying about something of this magnitude, she has no right to be the VPOTUS.

It has NOTHING to do with what is in her uterus or her daughters.

So bring your insane CHF crap elsewhere.

[Ichingcarpenter]

124. You are now a stupid person and need to take Hillary's photo off

Your avatar.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

26. At last, my deep dark secret revealed. I hate myself and all who share my genitalia...

Yes, you have surely found me out.

And as for what I hate, it's Christian hypocrisy and that is what this story reeks of. If this girl was made to feel ashamed of her son because of her mother's political career, well, I think that mother should be exposed.

[AuntPatsy]

30. You and me both

[Ichingcarpenter]

27. and a lot of women hate men

this is an issue that involves parenting not just women or men.

[Beausoir]

32. Nothing shocks me anymore. Here on DU, we have the placenta brigade.

Let's poke around that uterus.

Let's disect that placenta.

Let's get the woman up in the stirrups and REALLY take a good close look at who she is.

After all, she is probably hiding something in her vagina and WE want to find out what it is!

Leave NO labia unturned!!!1

[libnnc]

36. Her junk is fair game since she insists that MY junk is HER fair game. n/t

[Beausoir]

38. That makes her an idiot. What is your excuse?

[libnnc]

39. Mine? Fighting back for once.

You can defend her all you want 'till you get your granite.

Not me. This crazy sack of shit is going DOWN.

[Beausoir]

42. LOL. You are fighting against the woman's placenta! Her policies are MUCH easier targets.

But you are too lazy and sexist to go that route.


All that matters is her afterbirth.

Meanwhile the rest of the world actually CARES that she is pro drilling in ANWAR. That she is ANTI gay rights. That she is ANTI CHOICE.

So, yeah, you just keep obsessing about her placenta and then lecture me some more about what a great Democrat you are.

[libnnc]

44. oh bite me with your phoney PUMA shit

Jesus you're pathetic.

[Boz]

43. Please rememebr Palin believes she has nearly that right with other women's right why not her.

She can tell a woman what she can do with her vagina she can be held to her own beliefs.

[Bonobo]

57. Weak shit there, sistuh!

Perhaps the non-discriminating "minds" at CHF go for that stuff.

Crazy is as crazy does.

[helderheid]

33. 5th rec???

[Beausoir]

46. It's par for the course.

Whenever you get this large of a group, there will be a fair number of absolute kooks.

[Ichingcarpenter]

56. Do you know what the Mayo clinic said about pregnancy and airline travel?

Of course not, I know who the Kook is here and and that is one that fails miserable
in logic and argument and then starts name calling.

[Bonobo]

59. You do not have the bona-fides to command an audience.

Sorry.

Known quantity.

[justiceischeap]

34. I've found a picture of her 15 days before giving birth. You be the judge.

It's almost impossible with that jacket but I've noticed a lot of images of her has her wearing a fleece jacket of some sort.





http://todercan.com/?p=76">Source Link (images)
Source Link (birth date)

[anigbrowl]

41. Verdict: not.

[Ichingcarpenter]

50. Nope, no way .......she was pregnant 15 days before birth

Listen, I don't care if she covered the daughter's birth in a small town state for political purposes
But considering her women issues this is a big deal

[Left Is Write]

51. Looking at that lower picture, I could easily believe she was pregnant.

I'm no longer leaning toward a cover up, no matter how much it would undermine her "family values" stance.

[Ichingcarpenter]

61. No glow she an't got it and her daughter does.

Funny this thread is almost like a building 7 thread.

LOL

[ampad]

76. Not only that

The more babies you have the earlier you show. The uterus is stretched after each baby you have; this is why women who are pregnant with their first child show latter in pregnancy. I have had three: after each baby the cramps from my uterus contracting back to it's normal size were more painful with each child. If this woman actually gave birth four times before you would be able to tell she was seven months pregnant with her fifth without a doubt.

[Ichingcarpenter]

92. Yeah, Science is a bitch

because it reveals "An Inconvenient Truth,"

[Bonobo]

62. But why would she try so hard to hide a pregnancy? nt

[Left Is Write]

63. I don't know.

Possibly because of the medical issues. Who knows? The whole story is strange.

[Barack_America]

66. Indeed and it highlights the necessity of proper vetting...

Which was certainly NOT done on Sarah Palin.

[Left Is Write]

68. That's true.

Regardless of the truth behind this situation, the fact that it was already hanging over her head when she was selected shows a lack of thorough vetting.

[Ichingcarpenter]

64. Because she wasn't proud and it's damn cold in Alaska?

Think about that easy cover.

[jbnow]

143. It wouldn't really undermine her stance, just her honesty.

The baby was born and is being cared for by the family. It would be her daughter was so young and not ready but they waned the baby to stay in the family...and kept the secret so the girl could go on with her youth and the baby not be confused.
Something like that to sound wholesome.

This story is more of an intrusion of privacy...it speaks of the daughter's misbehavior if anyone...except the lie if the story was true. If the mother gave birth and passed it off as the daughters, that would be something else.

There are other known scandals around her and her husband. We should stick with those.

[afredus]

40. This will hit MSM in a few weeks

Now that she is a candidate for veep this will come out. Sarah Palin does not look pregnant in any of these pics - certainly not tihe #5, but her daughter looks like she could be pregnant with her first.

[Boz]

45. Racheal Maddow has already hinted that there is something odd.

[Barack_America]

48. At the very least, the intelligence of the flight back to AK will be questioned...

As it should be, IMO.

FYI, I found another link that shows the family photo is from 2006.

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8334949p-8231037c.html

[Ichingcarpenter]

53. Not to the remaining PUMAs here

[Bonobo]

60. I love how they try to use the language of Pro-Choice to confuse things. nt

[mrreowwr_kittty]

67. I just can't wrap my mind around someone in Palin's position doing something that creepy.

I mean, it's not like it's 1956. So I'm inclined to believe it's a spurious rumor. The only possible motive I can see for Palin hiding her daughter's pregnancy using such a complex and calculated ruse is if she was such a big proponent of abstinence only sex ed that she couldn't bear to have a failure in her own family. That's the only plausible scenario and it's farfetched.

[LongDistanceRunner]

73. but in the mind of a fundie, it is 1956

[Boz]

77. She announced this pregnancy to the public 2 weeks after her consideration talk for VP

Was this story invented to cover the daughter or to cover her ability to be VP. Thats a big deal

[regnaD kciN]

80. Not that far-fetched...

...if you're working from a Religious Reich perspective.

If she believes, as she no doubt does, that being an unwed teen mother is "shameful" (not to mention "sinful"), she probably assumes that a majority of her constituents do as well. Therefore, if the story gets out that one of her own children strayed from the straight and narrow in such a sinful way, it will reflect badly on her in their minds as well, and possibly end her political career.

Or, if not self-interest, it could have been a sacrificial act for the benefit of her daughter (under the aegis of "hate the sin, love the sinner"), who she figures would have her life ruined if people found out "the truth" about her lack of "purity." Better do what you can to make sure the "shameful" secret remains just that, for everyone's good.

I'm not saying that this rumor is true (although I can't say it's not, either). But one thing's for sure: writing "it's not like it's 1956" is missing the point; in the fundie mindset, it still is (or at least ought to be) the 1950s. Arguing that "times have changed" is a vain effort for people who will quickly reply "...but God's truth never changes."

[mrreowwr_kittty]

84. But to go to the length of falsifying a pregnancy of your own

Complete with a harrowing tale of an emergency delivery is just too weird. I could see hustling the girl off somewhere, under the cover of a "mono" story, and putting the baby up for adoption but this scenario is orders-of-magnitude more fucked up. :scared:

[LongDistanceRunner]

87. she sees it as saving her daughter and face at the same time

[Barack_America]

71. In fairness, I want to point out that the Moderate Voice is getting some heat for this..

This is all speculative at this point, but certainly needs to be looked into further.

This is vetting, folks. McCain didn't do it, so we will. Why he selected someone with so much shit hanging over her head is beyond me.

[merh]

88. Let the National Enquirer do this vetting

after all, the MSM was citing them about Edwards and still does pieces about the child - let the NE take this and see what they can come up with.

[Barack_America]

91. Absolutely agree. And I'm sure they will...

I spoke with a friend who is not the most politically aware tonight and he asked me about this. So it's getting out there.

But yeah, it's getting to the point where people need to be talked to to confirm or deny these speculations and we can't do that.

[tomnjoy]

72. Maybe something here, maybe not...but could be dangerous ground

First, before I throw myself into the fire, I admit I am mostly a lurker and have posted very few times, though I have enjoyed reading the discussions and feeling a part of DU over the years.

While I definitely agree that something here does not pass the sniff test - perhaps it is a massive cover-up, perhaps it is just very questionable behavior - I also feel that there's a lot of room for doubt here and could be dangerous ground for attacks.

I am NOT saying this as any sort of defense of Gov Palin, I'm just throwing this out there as an example of how every woman's experience is different and things aren't always as they seem. My husband and I just welcomed our first child last October - our little baby girl. It started as a normal pregnancy but I developed complications in my 7th month. I hardly showed AT ALL - in fact, most my friends and family kept questioning if I was even pregnant, even in my 8th month. I have pictures of me the day I gave birth and you can barely see a little bump. I wound up delivering a month premature - I had a placental abruption - and our girl was only 4 pounds, 12 ounces.

I say all this to point out that, while something doesn't seem right with this story, it is possible to be pregnant and barely show. In fact, it was very hurtful when people questioned my pregnancy.

Okay - now that I've probably angered everyone - let me also say that with my experience with a risky pregnancy, I cannot even fathom the idea of getting on a plane in my 8th month and traveling across the country. And then giving a speech and flying HOURS back home after "leaking". At the least, it seems incredibly irresponsible ... not to mention very dangerous for her health and the baby's.

Do I think something is "off" here? Yes. BUT, I also think that it is dangerous territory. Raise the questions, point out the discrepancies - but I think we need to be careful not to jump to conclusions based on photos. And this is just the sort of thing the Rethugs will love - "they're attacking her motherhood"...blah, blah, blah. Okay...I guess I made up for not posting in a while with my novel.

[Pepper32]

74. I'm sorry too many things do not add up and these pictures tell a story

[Barack_America]

79. I really think that top photo is from 2006.

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8334949p-8231037c.html

It's also listed in a photo-montage on that site as being from 2006.

It seems to have been thrown onto a picture from this March.

There is a confirmed recent family photo floating around though. I'll try to find it.

[LongDistanceRunner]

96. no, you were right at first

the pic in your link shows Bristol at 16

whereas the top photo above shows her at 17 and pregnant

you can see how she has aged from the photo in your link to the preggers photo

[Nia Zuri]

82. Why wasn't the "dad" holding the baby?

Before I had a chance to discuss the "Mystery" with my husband, he said he had thought it was strange the the father was not holding the baby. Why was the daughter holding it?

[Ichingcarpenter]

86. Great Question!.......... Where is the proud Dad?

another great point.

[Pepper32]

93. He was there and at one point was standing next to daughter while she held the baby the whole time.

[Ichingcarpenter]

97. She holds the baby unlike a novice

especially in the circumstances of the event , that would require calmness from the baby
that truly can only be given by the mother.

[Pepper32]

108. Yes, the baby was very content in her arms

[Barack_America]

114. It was actually the reverse that I noticed...

And I saw this before I heard anything about this "controversy".

But when that family walked out, I noticed the way she held that baby. What I thought was, "she looks like she holds that baby a lot, I wonder if she's the primary care-giver?" There's an unmistakable bond there. I'm not sure what it is, but she clearly spends a lot of time with that child.

[Ichingcarpenter]

116. Great Photos..... very revealing..... any anthropologist

or psychologist would deduce something very revealing.

The "REAL" mother has not even looked once at the baby once
during the whole experience.

[kath]

75. with a first pregnancy, you show later. This is the first time the abdominal tissues have been

stretched, so they are a lot more resilient. With subsequent pregnancies, you pop out much sooner. Shorter woman look big quicker (less room in the torso), taller women can hide it longer - more room for the uterus to grow "up", before it pops outward.
Heavier women can hide it longer - hard to differentiate between their "normal" fat and the bulge of the baby.

[medicswife]

147. I've been thinking the same thing....I have four kids and with each

subsequent pregnancy, I showed sooner and sooner and sooner. My next door neighbor is pregnant with her fourth and she is a tiny woman, extremely thin and very fit. She started showing after about 3 months. I think the daughter looked pregnant too..........Somethings rotten in the State of Alaska.

[Barack_America]

78. I agree. My goal with this was to encourage people to look into this further...

...not to immediately jump to conclusions. I'm sorry if that's not how it has come across.

There's something here, but I'm not sure what. And while I think it's fine to speculate, that speculation should stay on DU for now.

[Ichingcarpenter]

85. She was totally off the Radar on DU..... DU is just doing their normal

scientific inquiry that we normally do. But let me tell you
I have never seen so much stuff on one person, in one day
and Raw Story catches our inquiries and then does its own stuff.

My Blackwater story on a drug bust was picked up by them.


I like symbolman's stuff too today and his statement
NOT THIS TIME.

[Frank Booth]

99. FWIW, Google's cache still has a ton of pics from the Alaska Gov page. Here's just a few:

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:nK5vVIVHYX8J:gov.state.ak.us/photos.php%3F%26start%3D64%26total%3D8+http://gov.state.ak.us/photos.php%3F%26start%3D64%26total%3D8&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a


http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:8NF3XitDLxwJ:gov.state.ak.us/photos.php%3F%26start%3D56%26total%3D8+http://gov.state.ak.us/photos.php%3F%26start%3D56%26total%3D8&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a


http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:T6_dGLoaKkQJ:gov.state.ak.us/photos.php%3F%26start%3D48%26total%3D8+http://gov.state.ak.us/photos.php%3F%26start%3D48%26total%3D8&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Funny story, though it seems about as credible as the Obama birth certificate story.

[LongDistanceRunner]

102. why did they remove the pics?

[Pepper32]

103. None of those links work

[justiceischeap]

104. I want to see the larger version of the photo from 4.22.08

That would be what, 4 days after giving birth?

http://gov.state.ak.us/large_photo.php?id=119

[justiceischeap]

111. 4 days after giving birth

Covering that bump rather obviously (3/8/08)


And this is just a personal issue but almost every picture I've seen her in, she's wearing a coat! Not a suit coat but a overcoat. There's a picture with her seated at a table with W speaking and she's wearing a fleece jacket. Barney Frank was sitting next to her, maybe he'd give the scoop on whether she was obviously preggers. ;)

[chatnoir]

129. Yeah, why DID they remove the pics?

[justiceischeap]

100. Another thing about this that makes me go "Hmmm"

There seem to be NO pictures of the pregnant mama. Now, I don't know nothin' about being pregnant (pregnant women scare me, there's an alien inside their belly ;) ) but aren't most women so proud of being pregnant? How can a Governor hide this sort of thing?

So here's what we have thus far:

<->Didn't announce pregnancy until the 7th month and her staff was "shocked" because they couldn't see the barely perceptible bump
<->Rumors of pregnant daughter who was taken from school 'cause she had mono (I had mono once, that shit don't mess around!)
<->False labor the entire pregnancy (convenient excuse for the baby suddenly going away?)
<->Her doctor said she was in no danger from taking a five hour flight (supposedly in contact with her the entire way)
<->Went back to work 3 days later
<->Seems to be no difference in her weight in the picture I posted above and the other pictures of her or the picture with her and her hubby holding the babe as a newborn
<->Daughter, not dad, held the baby at the news conference today

Any other tidbits of info we're missing?

[Barack_America]

107. Just this. You figure that a fundie would mention being pregnant with a Down's baby...

Especially now that she's shown she's willing to use the child for political gain. She supposedly knew from 4 mos. on that the child had trisomy 21. I'm a bit surprised that she didn't mention it to ANYONE before she had the kid.

I guess you could argue that she didn't want people to worry about her emotional state and question her ability to do the job, but the news came out eventually and it sounds like Alaskans were a little miffed they weren't told. I wonder why she wasn't just honest about it.

[justiceischeap]

119. What other things wasn't she more forthcoming about? (eom)

[amborin]

105. why did she get married in a civil ceremony?

if she's religious?


Anchorage Daily News (Alaska)

Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Business News

February 2, 2007 Friday

Professional marrier has seen all kinds of love: COMMISSIONER: Her calling began in 1988, and two of her first customers were the Palins.

BYLINE: Andrew Wellner, Anchorage Daily News, Alaska

SECTION: STATE AND REGIONAL NEWS

LENGTH: 917 words


Feb. 2--WASILLA -- Kay Fyfe was sorting through her inch-thick file of marriage licenses two weeks ago when she came across an announcement from a newspaper circa 1988.

"Sarah Louise Heath and Todd Mitchell Palin were married at the Palmer Courthouse on Aug. 29 by marriage commissioner Kay Fife ," the article read.

Behind it, she found her commissioner's copy of the marriage license. And that's how Fyfe rediscovered the fact that she had presided over the wedding of Alaska's governor.

Fyfe was a courthouse clerk at the time. She had forgotten about the clipping, which she said she probably saved because her name was in the paper.

But then, it'd be easy to lose something like that in Fyfe's file full of copies of marriage licenses for the nearly 200 Valley couples she's helped to tie the knot during her time as a marriage commissioner.

According to Alaska statute, anybody can be a marriage commissioner. A couple that wants to get married just needs to find someone willing to fill out and sign the proper forms. There's no required ceremony, though at minimum the couple has to "assent or declare ... that they take each other to be husband and wife," according to the statute.

But Fyfe, between stints as a court clerk, filled a certain niche. She said she brings an expertise to the process that's comforting to often-clueless brides and grooms.

Her customers, when she was moonlighting between 1999 and 2006 as a marriage commissioner, ran the gamut. She's performed weddings with 100 people on the guest list and those with none.

Some of Fyfe's clients wanted a wedding with more formality than one presided over by an uncle or a cousin but less formal than a full-on, serious wedding in front of a priest. She's married people passing through the state who wanted to get married on vacation. She's married kids who didn't want their family to know. And she's married couples new to Alaska without friends close enough to perform the ceremony. One such wedding lasted 20 minutes.

"I literally on my way home from work stopped by (a) Wasilla park, married them and was back in my car in 20 minutes," she said.

Fyfe said she performed her first ceremony in 1988, when she still worked at the Palmer courthouse. Up until the late 1990s, Fyfe said, clerks in Palmer performed marriages as part of their job. She was the clerk primarily assigned that duty and would don black robes to perform brief civil ceremonies. That's when she married the Palins.

She could preside over friends' weddings in her free time but by statute couldn't charge a fee for the service. When she left the courthouse in 1999, though, she says she thought, "Well, I'm not working for the court anymore."

She printed up business cards and wrote up a script. Clerks in Palmer handed her cards to interested couples, and Fyfe charged $150 per ceremony, more if she had to drive far.

When she returned to work at the courthouse in 2006, she ran up against the same statute barring her from charging a fee for the service. So Fyfe handed the business off to Helen Barry, a friend Fyfe made while working in the garden center at Lowe's.

So far, Barry has performed three weddings. She loves it, though she does get nervous.

At her first wedding, "Towards the end I could feel my voice getting weak, and I'm thinking to myself, 'I'm pulling this off!' " Barry said, laughing.

But, she said, she'll do them the rest of her life if she can.

After that first ceremony, "I walked around on cloud nine all day. I was just so high from the experience."

Barry said she might even fix up her house to have a special room nice enough for regular wedding ceremonies.

Fyfe said she misses the work but is happy her friend is doing it now.

"It's always fun. You usually get fed," Fyfe said, and "It was a great side-job for me, a way to pick up some extra cash."

Fyfe said she could talk all day about the weddings she's done. During one, in Hatcher Pass, the bride's ring went missing somewhere along the path the wedding party had hiked to their chosen spot. Fyfe said she found the ring.

During another, in Talkeetna, she had to periodically pause as flightseeing planes took off behind her. Another Hatcher Pass wedding left her hoarse for days since she had to shout to be heard over the noise from two "very loud creeks."

Only one was "the wedding from hell."

It was in Anchorage, the groomsmen showed up two hours late, drunk. Fyfe got an earful of abuse from the groom after admonishing him for goofing off in the wedding photos.

"I've already told them my fee. And I've already been there four hours and nobody's offering to pay me. And you hate to ask," Fyfe said.

But finally she did ask. And nobody had enough cash to cover her fee.

"Ugh, I was livid. So finally people started throwing money in," she said.

Overall, though, the experience of performing so many marriages has left Fyfe optimistic about the state of marital relations in Alaska. Barry agreed.

"You want to say to the world, 'Marriage is alive and doing well.' There's still people out there that have hope and faith and believe that they can have this relationship for a lifetime," Barry said.

------

Contact Daily News reporter Andrew Wellner at [e-mail] or 352-6710.

Copyright (c) 2007, Anchorage Daily News, Alaska Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Business

[JVS]

106. Hates Jesus!

[AmericanUnity]

110. HER DAUGHTER HAS A BELLY.....KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

[AmericanUnity]

112. Look at her daughter in this pic. She looks preggers.....

[bitchkitty]

115. Hmm...wierd thread.

y'all must be really bored.

[AZBlue]

123. A cincher would be a photo of her drinking while supposedly pregnant.

She's a politician, she must have gone to at least one cocktail reception during those months.

[Ichingcarpenter]

130. Well, here's what I think

Not a big deal for the big corruption and big lies that were going on in Alaska at that time
This was just a small lie to hide her daughter's pregnancy which was an embarrassment
to her political, religious and ideological connections that attached to her rise in power.

You know, the whole family values thing? Now, let's look at when she did get pregnant,
was it when the sun doesn't set until 11 at night and there is nothing to do in town for
a youth, or was the child conceived in the dead of winter when the sun doesn't shine?

After reviewing the photos seen tonight, there is one person missing in the time line
and that is her daughter, especially during the last 15 weeks of pregnancy.
Now, if her whereabouts during this time can be found to debunk this story, then so be it,
however, if they are missing in the timeline then the story continues.


This is about lying and parenthood for political game, and now she is
to be Vice President?

I know small towns, this shit is not unusual, Mayberry never existed, except
in the minds of idiots. Now, especially in a fundamental religious backgrounds
these things are hidden and not brought out into the open.

I see a lot of Sexuality in the mother in her photo shoots and life,experiences and face it, she is hot
and plays with it, in a greek analogy their are many examples of this mythos.

Now, the development of the daughter at this time usually is in rebellion against
the mother, as is the son's is against the father. It is older than a greek tragedy.
So we must wonder, for one that is so shallow and vain as she, would she really do this?


I think, just a simple thoughtful consideration is in order.
It reminds me of a small town scandal.

[AZBlue]

152. Great analysis.

I really wouldn't care if she weren't running for VP. People can do what they need to do in their own private lives.

Unfortunately politicians aren't allowed private lives and as sad as that is for them, it's a necessary evil. For any politician you want to know what values and morals they have. The higher the position, the more this matters. So, for VP, this is vital because this didn't happen 15 years ago - this happened 4 months ago and would tell us what kind of person she is now.

[Princess Turandot]

125. I think they could have achieved this through adoption at birth..

it removes the problem of the OBG falsifying the birth certificate application; the adopting parents go on the bc, not the biological parents. Hospital employees are silent because of HIPAA and her high profile. There may even be laws re: revealing adoption information by another person.

I have no idea what happened here of course. But it's not as far-fetched as I thought an hour ago.

[choie]

126. Help me understand what the benefit of this story is for us?

Okay, so the premise is that Palin lied to cover up her daughter's pregnancy, right? What's the upside to this being true? At best she's outted as having lied about something that affects no one outside their family. At worst we look like tacky, vindictive hypocrites for going after the poor defenseless daughter and her womb that we believe is private business -- and Palin will gain sympathy for being a wonderful mother who protects her daughter/grandchild at any cost. Gross.

Fellow conservatives won't turn against her for this. They protect their own, they live to defend their precious hypocritical selves from the big bad liberal world. They are pathologically unable to see the log in their own eye, preferring to focus on the mote in everyone else's.

So what am I not seeing? What's the outcome we're hoping for?

[AkFemDem]

131. I agree, wonderful benevolent mother/grandmother

Who will take on another 18 years of responsibility to "save" her daughter so she can live a real life. THAT is the picture they would paint even if such a thing happened.

That said, as another poster has pointed out repeatably, the daughter-belly picture is from 2006 so the dates do not add up to the baby.

[LongDistanceRunner]

137. sure it would, everybody would just forget about her massive lie

and the daughter-belly photo is from 2008

there are photos from 2006 in which the daughters appear much younger than 'Bellypic'.

but don't feel bad, you did your best to squash the story. it just has too many legs.

[LongDistanceRunner]

132. nice try. noone needs to make you understand.

If Palin lied about this, she will go down.

Your concern about the big mistake we're making won't stop that.

[choie]

138. Oh for sweet zombie jesus's sake...

Not everyone asking questions is a concern troll. Indeed, I could throw that accusation right back at you. Why are you so invested in pushing us to move forward with what might be a trojan horse story, hmmmm? Hey, you've got fewer posts than I do, you're more suspect than I! :sarcasm:

Seriously, take a deep breath and try to engage in a real conversation, not just defensive hysteria. Hell look at my past posts if you can. I'm not demanding anything, I didn't say people "need" to "make" me understand, and I didn't say it was a "big mistake." I want to see where we're going with this, because yes, I do think it could backfire without any requisite benefit.

If you seriously think conservatives will run for the smelling salts at the suggestion that Palin lied to cover up her daughter's pregnancy, you are perhaps one of the most naive people I've ever met. Oh to be so trusting in human nature again!

These fucktards don't care that McCain is pro-torture despite having been tortured. They don't care that McCain is claiming to be a true-blue pro-family conservative despite being a lying adulterous sack of shit. They don't care that Bush is a pro-lifer while gleefully chuckling over multiple executions. They don't care that McCain and Bush claim to adore the troops despite being happy to send them off to get maimed and killed over lies.

Hypocrisy is mother's milk to wingnuts. Finding it in Palin will probably just make them all the more in love with her.

If, however, there's something illegal or even immoral in what she's alleged to have done here ... something that would truly give this legs ... well, that's a different story altogether. I just can't guess what that would be.

[Barack_America]

133. Please note this discussion, which may call this into doubt.

http://www.twopeasinabucket.com/mb.asp?cmd=display&thread_id=2637322&pg=4

A woman posts with a daughter who knows Palin's daughter (it's towards the end).


Please also note that the picture that everyone is showing where the daughter *looks* pregnant is from 2006.

[chatnoir]

134. Oh god, reading the comments on that board made my brain melt

[Barack_America]

135. Lol. I'm sorry, I should've added a disclaimer.

Sorry 'bout that. I just scanned them rather than reading them, so I wasn't aware how bad they were.

[philly_bob]

140. Poster who disputes daughter's pregnancy joined last month, has 25 posts

Possible disinformation.

I have no idea what the truth is on the matter of mother covering up daughter's pregnancy is, but I encourage this online vetting of Palin. And I consider it relevant to election.

I trust the Democratic Party will hold off, however, on officially expressing these doubts until we have more facts.

[vaberella]

144. I figured that was just baby fat. I won't waste my time with this topic.

Her qualifications are debatable enough. If people think this is so important (not directed at you Kristi--but generally) they can send it to the National Enquirer----personally I think we're messing with the life of a teenage girl and I'm not up for that nonsense.

[robicon]

150. I concur

This is a serious grasping at straws. There are other ways to go about discrediting her that won't hurt the cause.

Attacking her daughter WILL backfire, it WILL turn fence-sitters away from the democratic party.

You WILL create an air of sympathy for Palin and her family, where intially there wasn't one.

Furthermore, her "lack of experience" angle will backfire and open Obama's sentate career up for further scrutiny. She's got 2 years in an executive office, Obama has 143 days as a senator.

Some of our rabid members would do well to heed the above...

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

148. DU reads like the Weekly World News this morning

:argh: